Shots, blasts as protest rivals clash on Thai election eve

[smedly]

I've been reading through this thread and have concluded a couple of things

The protestors have been under constant bomb gun and grenade attack for several weeks now and have not retaliated

The police have stood by and done nothing

People should be allowed to vote if they want to but PTP should have stood down in shame and reforms taken place first, so the election should have been postponed

From the footage and pictures I've seen here - either the protestors have armed themselves and are defending against armed attacks or the army are doing it - either way they have a right to do so if the police won't

and it's interesting that most if not all of the footage is from the protestors side as I would assume the other side are not allowing the press or indeed any coverage of their armed attacks so we are only seeing one side of this - it is obvious from the various videos that the protestors are being attacked they are not hiding and ducking behind walls and cars for nothing

It's time the army stepped in and started to act were the police refuse to

[smileydude]

Point taken but to get things straight, Suthep and the anti-government protesters are not against the voting process per se either. They want reform before voting because the government has shown thru rampant vote buying, ghost ballots and populist polices that they are manipulating the results in their favor.

Would you trust a government with this kind of track record to run a clean and fair election?

Do you agree to reform before holding elections to ensure fairness and that whoever is elected must be accountable, transparent and adhere to good governance?

The government refuses to reform so the only choice of those who disagree is to show civil disobedience and abstain from voting in protest. Alot of people, including myself don't agree with some of Suthep's tactics but the main point stands.

Reform before elections.

No reform without an electoral mandate.

Suthep is not even the leader of the Democrats, he wasn't popular enough among his own party to lead it. So if the yellows don't trust him to lead the party, why should Thai people trust him to lead the country?

No fair electoral mandate can be achieved while the interim government of PTP is in power.

I wouldn't vote for Suthep either. Hopefully he keeps his word and does not continue politics.

People don't trust an individual. They trust the process of reform once they see it.

Edited February 2, 2014 by smileydude

[BlueNoseCodger]

Dems are blinded. They tuly think this is about "reform". This is a Power grab by the Dems. Suthep didnt do reform after his role in the Military Govt and there will be no reform now! Dems have no desire to change their policies to be inclusive of the farmers to win farmer votes. This is far too much work for the Dems and they have failed to do so for 30 years! So what other options do Dems have? Power Grab!!

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

If that was true then they'd win a vote! The problem with the Dems scheme is it was a minimum price system, they'd pay the difference between the price paid to the farmer and the minimum price. A pure paper system like that is rife with corruption, because there was no physical transaction of goods to check.

And of course, we had the floods and rice shortages in Phillipines and India. So the rice supply needs to be buffered for safety.

It's interesting that some people pretend the rice pledging scheme is a vote buying scheme, yet others pretend its unpopular and the democrats subsidy is popular!!. Contradictory stances, which is it?

Edited February 2, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[BlueNoseCodger]

Point taken but to get things straight, Suthep and the anti-government protesters are not against the voting process per se either. They want reform before voting because the government has shown thru rampant vote buying, ghost ballots and populist polices that they are manipulating the results in their favor.

Would you trust a government with this kind of track record to run a clean and fair election?

Do you agree to reform before holding elections to ensure fairness and that whoever is elected must be accountable, transparent and adhere to good governance?

The government refuses to reform so the only choice of those who disagree is to show civil disobedience and abstain from voting in protest. Alot of people, including myself don't agree with some of Suthep's tactics but the main point stands.

Reform before elections.

No reform without an electoral mandate.

Suthep is not even the leader of the Democrats, he wasn't popular enough among his own party to lead it. So if the yellows don't trust him to lead the party, why should Thai people trust him to lead the country?

No fair electoral mandate can be achieved while the interim government of PTP is in power.

I wouldn't vote for Suthep either. Hopefully he keeps his word and does not continue politics.

People don't trust an individual. They trust the process of reform once they see it.

Yes you can achieve an electoral mandate, it's called an election.

PTP don't run the election, EC does. That seems to be an issue because the Commissioners stated positions is in direct conflict with their legal duty. See Somchais comments:

EC member Somchai Srisutthiyakorn said:

'The elections will not take place unless both parties and other stakeholders hold talks and reach an agreement. The EC is ready to act as a go-between.'

'After the registration of constituency candidates ends on Jan 1, the EC will hold a meeting on Jan 2 and make a decision,'

'Some people may say we are crossing the line. In some cases we might overstep our authority. But if that can resolve the situation, we have to do it,'

'And if the public thinks that we have crossed the line, we will take responsibility.'

[shiok]

take away people's basic human rights and you can expect a backlash

most of the world fights FOR elections - and Thailand fights to STOP them

They are fighting for reform .. nobody other than pro-government support have said no election .. Suthep said reform then elections in 12-18 months.

I could ask. Why is Yingluck clinging to the PM's seat when she could step down for the good of the country?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Because she is elected, has massive support and is the last defender of Democracy that Thailand has.

We don't want her to step down and give every bodies rights to Suthep. Democracy is worth fighting for and you will see many more people rally around that cause than Sutheps. Up to the Army now, they left now defending a few hundred of sutheps vilest followers. Many will be watermelon and might not be to accurate when they are taking aim!!! Bit of friendly fire... Army do it all the time!!! Don't bank on them all to be in this.

Suthep gets in, we best all pack our bags as it will follow the same pattern as many times in other countrys. Suthep gets in, has lots of scores to settle, does not trust anybody else incase they have contrary ideaa to him. Dissenters beaten up (we seen this already) then take over of every fascet of life.

Later, armed rebellioin against Suthep group (seeing this to start already and he isn't even in) and a major war to clear him and his backers out.

Make no mistake, if Suthep has to be foreced out, they will get the backers next time.

more crap from you as always

Edited February 2, 2014 by shiok

[Suriya4]

Dems are blinded. They tuly think this is about "reform". This is a Power grab by the Dems. Suthep didnt do reform after his role in the Military Govt and there will be no reform now! Dems have no desire to change their policies to be inclusive of the farmers to win farmer votes. This is far too much work for the Dems and they have failed to do so for 30 years! So what other options do Dems have? Power Grab!!

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

If that was true then they'd win a vote! The problem with the Dems scheme is it was a minimum price system, they'd pay the difference between the price paid to the farmer and the minimum price. A pure paper system like that is rife with corruption, because there was no physical transaction of goods to check.

And of course, we had the floods and rice shortages in Phillipines and India. So the rice supply needs to be buffered for safety.

It's interesting that some people pretend the rice pledging scheme is a vote buying scheme, yet others pretend its unpopular and the democrats subsidy is popular!!. Contradictory stances, which is it?

In the DEMs system, you do not need to show that you have physical rice. Hence there are a lot of ghost farmers. Investigation has caught a lot of village heads (the approval of the list of local farmers), added names of relatives and friends, to claim the price differences.

The PT system is not corruption free either. But it is harder to cheat, because one would either:

1. Buy rice from Cambodia, and claim it is your own to sell to government or

2. Recycle the same batch of rice again and again.

[Dogmatix]

Actually, CNN reported had coverage of a anti Govt protester with the bag/rifle. The news reporter was within 6m of the guy. Why no police???

The CNN crew is lucky he didn't swivel round and take them out as a "silence" killing. If it been Jonathan Head, he might not have been so lucky, given his reputation amongst anti-government protestors, assuming he wasn't one of Chalerm's third hands.

[whybother]

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

If that was true then they'd win a vote! The problem with the Dems scheme is it was a minimum price system, they'd pay the difference between the price paid to the farmer and the minimum price. A pure paper system like that is rife with corruption, because there was no physical transaction of goods to check.

And of course, we had the floods and rice shortages in Phillipines and India. So the rice supply needs to be buffered for safety.

It's interesting that some people pretend the rice pledging scheme is a vote buying scheme, yet others pretend its unpopular and the democrats subsidy is popular!!. Contradictory stances, which is it?

The system was in place while the Democrats were in power. Where are all the reports of the corruption if it was so rife?

They may be contradictory stances but can you please point out to me someone who is saying both of them?

[dighambara]

Certainly, with total gun control, criminals expect no one can shoot back.

No so in the US where anyone can own a gun and where citizens draw guns to protect themselves and the property of others.

[smedly]

Dems are blinded. They tuly think this is about "reform". This is a Power grab by the Dems. Suthep didnt do reform after his role in the Military Govt and there will be no reform now! Dems have no desire to change their policies to be inclusive of the farmers to win farmer votes. This is far too much work for the Dems and they have failed to do so for 30 years! So what other options do Dems have? Power Grab!!

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

If that was true then they'd win a vote! The problem with the Dems scheme is it was a minimum price system, they'd pay the difference between the price paid to the farmer and the minimum price. A pure paper system like that is rife with corruption, because there was no physical transaction of goods to check.

And of course, we had the floods and rice shortages in Phillipines and India. So the rice supply needs to be buffered for safety.

It's interesting that some people pretend the rice pledging scheme is a vote buying scheme, yet others pretend its unpopular and the democrats subsidy is popular!!. Contradictory stances, which is it?

The PTP rice scheme is pure corruption with the added bonus of populist to buy votes

From another thread on TV

you people want to know what this is about

The government once announced that the sale of stockpiled rice would be done under a G2G (government to government) arrangement via a Chinese company called GSSG Import & Export Corporation, whose sole appointed agent in Thailand is Mr. Natthanit Sojirakul, a.k.a. 'Palm' who is the personal assistant of Udonthani MP Rapheephan Phongrueangrong, wife of red shirt leader Arisman Phongrueangrong.

Mr. Natthanit in turn issued a formal letter appointing as his representative Mr. Nimol Rakdee, who is the right hand man of Sia Piang.

It was Mr. Nimol Rakdee's job purchase rice from the government under the G2G scheme via the Department of Foreign Trade. Sia Piang then takes the rice which was sold at a price below market rates due to the fact that there was no public auction as per G2G regulations, and sells them to the rice mills at market rates.

The government loses money once because Sia Piang pockets the difference between the G2G price and the market rates. The rice mills then sell the rice back to the government, causing the government to lose money the twice because the government is obliged to buy the rice at 40% above the market rate.

It is probably not negligence or coincidence that causes the government loses money in this way. More likely because Sia Piang (circled) is a close associate of Thaksin.

Selling the rice under a G2G scheme (to avoid a public tender) is actually a scheme to sell the rice to corporations belonging to people close to Thaksin Shinawatra.

All the good people of Thailand (97%) need to read this

and this is only part of it

[Suriya4]

Actually, CNN reported had coverage of a anti Govt protester with the bag/rifle. The news reporter was within 6m of the guy. Why no police???

Because it's Thailand?

Why no army to protect innocent protesters who come in peace and without weapon, protesting under their constitutional rights?

[Emptyset]

I've been reading through this thread and have concluded a couple of things

The protestors have been under constant bomb gun and grenade attack for several weeks now and have not retaliated

The police have stood by and done nothing

People should be allowed to vote if they want to but PTP should have stood down in shame and reforms taken place first, so the election should have been postponed

From the footage and pictures I've seen here - either the protestors have armed themselves and are defending against armed attacks or the army are doing it - either way they have a right to do so if the police won't

and it's interesting that most if not all of the footage is from the protestors side as I would assume the other side are not allowing the press or indeed any coverage of their armed attacks so we are only seeing one side of this - it is obvious from the various videos that the protestors are being attacked they are not hiding and ducking behind walls and cars for nothing

It's time the army stepped in and started to act were the police refuse to

There were journalists with the red shirts, and indeed, one of them was filmed with a gun here (guy in the black hat): www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq5UcSbi1Qk&feature=youtu.be

He makes no attempt to disguise it. But have only seen a couple of those on the red side with hand guns, nothing more. There weren't that many foreign journalists there when the incident began and if they came from central BKK they'd end up first with the PDRC - who came from Lad Phrao - rather than on the red side to the north. So that's one obvious reason. Of course reds exchanged fire with the PDRC, but the PDRC were very likely more heavily armed.

"I would assume the other side are not allowing the press or indeed any coverage of their armed attacks"

Never heard there was any problem. Even in 2010 the MiB weren't *that* secretive, remember the AFP video (IIRC), where they tell him to turn the camera around for a second, then they fire off a grenade, and the guy goes on filming? It's the PDRC who seem to have the somewhat more frosty relationship with the foreign press. Even Yon said at the Thai-Japanese Stadium they asked him not to take pictures. Meanwhile, Nostitz threatened again on FB by PDRC supporters, annoyed by his BBC interview. Whatever you think about him, threats shouldn't be condoned.

[Dogmatix]

In the DEMs system, you do not need to show that you have physical rice. Hence there are a lot of ghost farmers. Investigation has caught a lot of village heads (the approval of the list of local farmers), added names of relatives and friends, to claim the price differences.

The PT system is not corruption free either. But it is harder to cheat, because one would either:

1. Buy rice from Cambodia, and claim it is your own to sell to government or

2. Recycle the same batch of rice again and again.

You are right. I was told by an educated Thai that the rice pledging scheme, despite some minor teething problems, was an excellent scheme and much better than the Dems corruption plagued rice guarantee scheme. Eliminating the sperfluous need to show you had actually farmed enough land to produce the rice pledged has aligned the scheme with free market forces that reduces misallocation of resources. So, if Cambodia is a lower price, more efficient producer the scheme allows for imports from there. Likewise if China is offering the middle men too low a price, the rice can be re-pledged to the government at full price, eliminating wasteful exports.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Dems are blinded. They tuly think this is about "reform". This is a Power grab by the Dems. Suthep didnt do reform after his role in the Military Govt and there will be no reform now! Dems have no desire to change their policies to be inclusive of the farmers to win farmer votes. This is far too much work for the Dems and they have failed to do so for 30 years! So what other options do Dems have? Power Grab!!

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

If that was true then they'd win a vote! The problem with the Dems scheme is it was a minimum price system, they'd pay the difference between the price paid to the farmer and the minimum price. A pure paper system like that is rife with corruption, because there was no physical transaction of goods to check.

And of course, we had the floods and rice shortages in Phillipines and India. So the rice supply needs to be buffered for safety.

It's interesting that some people pretend the rice pledging scheme is a vote buying scheme, yet others pretend its unpopular and the democrats subsidy is popular!!. Contradictory stances, which is it?

The PTP rice scheme is pure corruption with the added bonus of populist to buy votes

From another thread on TV

you people want to know what this is about

The government once announced that the sale of stockpiled rice would be done under a G2G (government to government) arrangement via a Chinese company called GSSG Import & Export Corporation, whose sole appointed agent in Thailand is Mr. Natthanit Sojirakul, a.k.a. 'Palm' who is the personal assistant of Udonthani MP Rapheephan Phongrueangrong, wife of red shirt leader Arisman Phongrueangrong.

Mr. Natthanit in turn issued a formal letter appointing as his representative Mr. Nimol Rakdee, who is the right hand man of Sia Piang.

It was Mr. Nimol Rakdee's job purchase rice from the government under the G2G scheme via the Department of Foreign Trade. Sia Piang then takes the rice which was sold at a price below market rates due to the fact that there was no public auction as per G2G regulations, and sells them to the rice mills at market rates.

The government loses money once because Sia Piang pockets the difference between the G2G price and the market rates. The rice mills then sell the rice back to the government, causing the government to lose money the twice because the government is obliged to buy the rice at 40% above the market rate.

It is probably not negligence or coincidence that causes the government loses money in this way. More likely because Sia Piang (circled) is a close associate of Thaksin.

Selling the rice under a G2G scheme (to avoid a public tender) is actually a scheme to sell the rice to corporations belonging to people close to Thaksin Shinawatra.

All the good people of Thailand (97%) need to read this

and this is only part of it

Lots of allegations there, but NACC have not made those allegations. They've made a much more vague one. "no proof the companies were authorized under G2G scheme", "no proof that all the rice was exported". So I'll wait to see NACCs firm up its claim first.

[Suriya4]

<snip>

Gents.

There are 2 international airports in Bangkok.

Don Muang handles the budget airlines such as Air Asia and I think a Korean airline that fly internationally. It also handles budget domestic from mainly Air Asia and Nok Air.

Suvarnabhum handles the main international carriers as well as domestic from Thai and Bangkok airlines

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There is only 1 airport inside Bangkok. It is called Don Muang Airport situated in Dom Muang District, 1 of the 50 district of Bangkok.

Many people comes to Bangkok via Suvarnabhum, I agree. But Suvarnabhum is not located in Bangkok at all. It may locate near Bangkok (depending which part of Bangkok you wish to reach).

Just like if you sat Narita Airport is in Tokyo. Many Japanese in Chiba Perfecture will disagree with you that Narita is in Tokyo.

Many people also travel to London via Lutton, Gatwick, Standard, etc. All of these airports are not in London at all.

All I am saying is that there is only 1 INTERNATIONAL airport located in Bangkok. And this airport handled >15 million passengers in 2013, and fly to more than 15 countries on scheduled flights.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Suriya4

[BlueNoseCodger]

Rubbish. You hope they will censors all this evidence, showing Suthep's mob shooting and throwing bombs.

.

Your issues, as said, lay with Forum Admin.

Btw, i didn't post what is written in bold within my post above, but whoever did write it is wrong as dozens and dozens of posts have clearly marked copyrighted notations on them and there are many, many more that have no source included, via a link, which is another strong indication they were pilfered from news media sources.

.

Not at all, the Forum Admins have censored very little, I have no issue with them.

The image URL reveal the source of an image, and youtube is under youtube embed license. etc. most posts intact.

[Mosha]

RT@RichardBarrow: VIDEO: Gunfire & explosions in #Bangkok on the eve of national elections - RT @go6tv: คลิปปะทะ แยกหลักสี่ youtube.com/watch?v=_wVmQA… #Thailand

Any idea WHY they were beating the car?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That was my thought too. Please can somebody on here translate what was being shouted. Many thanks.

I think he's saying. I warned you what would happen if you didn't start.

[whybother]

<snip>

Gents.

There are 2 international airports in Bangkok.

Don Muang handles the budget airlines such as Air Asia and I think a Korean airline that fly internationally. It also handles budget domestic from mainly Air Asia and Nok Air.

Suvarnabhum handles the main international carriers as well as domestic from Thai and Bangkok airlines

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There is only 1 airport inside Bangkok. It is called Don Muang Airport situated in Dom Muang District, 1 of the 50 district of Bangkok.

Many people comes to Bangkok via Suvarnabhum, I agree. But Suvarnabhum is not located in Bangkok at all.

Just like if you sat Narita Airport is in Tokyo. Many Japanese in Chiba Perfecture will disagree with you that Narita is in Tokyo.

Many people also travel to London via Lutton, Gatwick, Standard, etc. All of these airports are not in London at all.

All I am saying is that there is only 1 INTERNATIONAL airport located in Bangkok. And this airport handled >15 million passengers in 2013.

But given that most foreigners come into Bangkok via Suvarnabhumi airport, it is a very misleading statement to suggest that there will be problems for people getting to Bangkok's international airport.

[tobf16]

Another video, it looks like a rear guard for Sutheps lot threw bombs and fired shots at the pro-democracy protestors. We know the gunman was with the Suthep group, and we know he has a modern army weapon.

Here is another video showing the shot man. Yes he is a pro-democracy one.

(girl)"elder don't go anywhere"

"he's hiding in the box in the middle of the road"

(man)"police police up there up there"

(girl)"ours got shot" (I think she's pro-democracy)

(girl) "pull him back pull him to safety"

(girl)"he hide in the box on the middle of the road"

(girl)"the box middle of the road, he there"

(shot) (shot) (shot)

(guy 3:00) "on the bridge on the bridge"

(man)"call the ambulance, ambulance"

(girl) "hey don't move it yet"

can you please explain exactly what this video is supposed to prove?! one person (presumably red-shirt), hiding behind a car, recording 4 minutes of video of absolutely nothing, and a 30 second dialog of a rumour told by someone else hiding and seeing (or knowing) absolutely nothing for sure. i do not choose a side in this situation (actually i choose neither), but this posting was just a waste of space and a post count boost .

Very near the one and only International in Bangkok. You can even hear a jet landing in the back ground.

Still safe for Farang tourist? You decide yourself.

The Tollway on top will be closed soon (said protest leader yesterday), so the only way to get to/from the only International in Bangkok is the one that appears on the clip.

Have you ever been to Thailand?

The International airport is Suvarnabhumi Airport in Samutprakarn, which is nowhere near Lak Si.

The nearest airport to Lak Si is Don Muang, which ceased to operate as the International airport when Suvarnabhumi Airport was opened in September 2006.

You are both wrong.

Boht airports are used for international flights. Don Muang mostly for Low cost Carriers like Air Asia.

[Suriya4]

In the DEMs system, you do not need to show that you have physical rice. Hence there are a lot of ghost farmers. Investigation has caught a lot of village heads (the approval of the list of local farmers), added names of relatives and friends, to claim the price differences.

The PT system is not corruption free either. But it is harder to cheat, because one would either:

1. Buy rice from Cambodia, and claim it is your own to sell to government or

2. Recycle the same batch of rice again and again.

You are right. I was told by an educated Thai that the rice pledging scheme, despite some minor teething problems, was an excellent scheme and much better than the Dems corruption plagued rice guarantee scheme. Eliminating the sperfluous need to show you had actually farmed enough land to produce the rice pledged has aligned the scheme with free market forces that reduces misallocation of resources. So, if Cambodia is a lower price, more efficient producer the scheme allows for imports from there. Likewise if China is offering the middle men too low a price, the rice can be re-pledged to the government at full price, eliminating wasteful exports.

Both PT & DEM system can be cheated.

But to the farmers, PT system is simple. Hand over rice, wait for govt cash at fix rate (wait and wait, sometime no money yet).

DEM system is very conplicated for the farmers. Farmers will have to bribe the village head to approve the application for the price difference (no bribe, no signiture). Usually the village will provide a 1 stop service, get all the forms ready, mark an x, and poor and mostly uneducated farmers sign it without knowing what they sign. Eg. farmer A only plant 10 rai. Village head get farmer a to claim cash benefit for 20 rai. If not caught, the extra 10 rai money goes to village head (in some case, split with govt official). If caught, village head just say the farmer lied (but farmers didn't understand the form he/she signed).

This is the reason why farmers preferred PT method.

I must also add that both system (PT or DEM) give out free tax payer money to farmers, which piss off middle class tax payer, mainly Bangkok salary man and women, who cannot evade tax (tax money taken from their pay cheque by law).

[BlueNoseCodger]

Chitpas's facebook page (the Singha beer/Leo Beer daughter who supports Suthep) is telling people that the shot man was shot by red-shirts! Despite all the evidence to the contrary!

Have a look at her facebook page entry (attached)

It seems they can't face up to the truth there in Suthep land. A commenter below the picture says in Thai that he was one of the pro-election protestors and swears at her.

He's this guy

And the shooters are traceable as PDRC

So her PDRC mob shot a man.

Edited February 2, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[newcomer71]

Chitpas's facebook page (the Singha beer/Leo Beer daughter who supports Suthep) is telling people that the shot man was shot by red-shirts! Despite all the evidence to the contrary!

Have a look at her facebook page entry (attached)

chitpas-facebook-page2.jpg

It seems they can't face up to the truth there in Suthep land. A commenter below the picture says in Thai that he was one of the pro-election protestors and swears at her.

He's this guy

And the shooters are traceable as PDRC

So her PDRC mob shot a man.

That poor guy will be paralized from the neck down. And influential people like this "princess" plays and speculates on him, it's a shame, disgusting. Thailand lost sense of reality.

Edited February 2, 2014 by newcomer71

[Bluespunk]

Dems are blinded. They tuly think this is about "reform". This is a Power grab by the Dems. Suthep didnt do reform after his role in the Military Govt and there will be no reform now! Dems have no desire to change their policies to be inclusive of the farmers to win farmer votes. This is far too much work for the Dems and they have failed to do so for 30 years! So what other options do Dems have? Power Grab!!

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

Maybe if some yellow followers spent less time insulting a large part of the electorate these policies would have a much better chance of being heard.

PAD (the yellows) and the Dems are not the same. PAD spent a lot of time condemning the last Dem govt because they did not adopt their nationalistic agenda.

[Bluespunk]

Point taken but to get things straight, Suthep and the anti-government protesters are not against the voting process per se either. They want reform before voting because the government has shown thru rampant vote buying, ghost ballots and populist polices that they are manipulating the results in their favor.

Would you trust a government with this kind of track record to run a clean and fair election?

Do you agree to reform before holding elections to ensure fairness and that whoever is elected must be accountable, transparent and adhere to good governance?

The government refuses to reform so the only choice of those who disagree is to show civil disobedience and abstain from voting in protest. Alot of people, including myself don't agree with some of Suthep's tactics but the main point stands.

Reform before elections.

No reform without an electoral mandate.

Suthep is not even the leader of the Democrats, he wasn't popular enough among his own party to lead it. So if the yellows don't trust him to lead the party, why should Thai people trust him to lead the country?

I don't think suthep was ever in PAD (the yellows) or if they ever really got a political party going. Suthep was a Dem, but the Dems and PAD (the yellows) are not one and the same.

[Bluespunk]

Dems are blinded. They tuly think this is about "reform". This is a Power grab by the Dems. Suthep didnt do reform after his role in the Military Govt and there will be no reform now! Dems have no desire to change their policies to be inclusive of the farmers to win farmer votes. This is far too much work for the Dems and they have failed to do so for 30 years! So what other options do Dems have? Power Grab!!

The Democrats had policies that meant that the farmers got paid directly rather than money being syphoned off by the millers and middle men. A blind poll before last election also showed that people in the North/North East also preferred their policies. So it isn't as simple as "come up with policies for the farmers".

If that was true then they'd win a vote! The problem with the Dems scheme is it was a minimum price system, they'd pay the difference between the price paid to the farmer and the minimum price. A pure paper system like that is rife with corruption, because there was no physical transaction of goods to check.

And of course, we had the floods and rice shortages in Phillipines and India. So the rice supply needs to be buffered for safety.

It's interesting that some people pretend the rice pledging scheme is a vote buying scheme, yet others pretend its unpopular and the democrats subsidy is popular!!. Contradictory stances, which is it?

The problem with the rice scheme is that it criminally inept in economic terms. You cannot buy goods at more than the market rate and sell them at a price above the current market rate unless you control the market.

Thailand once led the rice export market but did not control it. There were plenty of other countries selling rice who sold it at the market price. This price is a lot less than the one PT offered to pay for it.

The scheme has failed, rice is rotting, Thailand's position as a market leader has collapsed, farmers have not been paid and the govt cannot get out of the scheme. They tried last year and failed to do so.

That is why the scheme has been criticised.

[Ulysses G.]

Suthep was a Dem, but the Dems and PAD (the yellows) are not one and the same.

You are splitting hairs. The yellows are backing Suthep.

[Bluespunk]

Suthep was a Dem, but the Dems and PAD (the yellows) are not one and the same.

You are splitting hairs. The yellows are backing Suthep.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with Dems as suthep is no longer a Dem and the Dems and PAD (the yellows) are not the same entity.

[tonytigerbkk]

<snip>

Gents.

There are 2 international airports in Bangkok.

Don Muang handles the budget airlines such as Air Asia and I think a Korean airline that fly internationally. It also handles budget domestic from mainly Air Asia and Nok Air.

Suvarnabhum handles the main international carriers as well as domestic from Thai and Bangkok airlines

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

There is only 1 airport inside Bangkok. It is called Don Muang Airport situated in Dom Muang District, 1 of the 50 district of Bangkok.

Many people comes to Bangkok via Suvarnabhum, I agree. But Suvarnabhum is not located in Bangkok at all.

Just like if you sat Narita Airport is in Tokyo. Many Japanese in Chiba Perfecture will disagree with you that Narita is in Tokyo.

Many people also travel to London via Lutton, Gatwick, Standard, etc. All of these airports are not in London at all.

All I am saying is that there is only 1 INTERNATIONAL airport located in Bangkok. And this airport handled >15 million passengers in 2013.

But given that most foreigners come into Bangkok via Suvarnabhumi airport, it is a very misleading statement to suggest that there will be problems for people getting to Bangkok's international airport.

Thank you Whybother, well put.

This was the point that I was trying to make but I fear that I was not getting the message across right.

Please award youself with a gold star for being an excllent wordsmith.

[LarryBird]

Seeing that this topic has turned into a pro-reds/anti Suthep versus anti-reds/anti-Thaksin fiasco I have one question to ask the pro-reds/anti-Suthep's.

Many of us are on neither side, but we support the right to vote.

For me, this sums it up. There's nothing more than this.

[captspectre]

Where is the Police and the Army?

out checking motorcycle helments and drivers licenses.