The "To Jomtien" baht bus queue in South Pattaya a cauldron of violence

[ThaiBob]

The queue system at the school is designed for the baht bus cooperative and NOT the traveling public. Once busses on South Pattaya drop off their passengers (which they must unless chartered) they must get in the bus queue at the front of the line and wait their turn. A big help would be a roped off area so passengers must form a single file for boarding. Line cheaters can not board but must go to the end of the line. Also a sign showing "Jomtien only". Like many, I get frustrated with rude, ill mannered, inconsiderate people and hopefully a more orderly boarding system would prevent hurt feelings and altercations during the boarding process. Logic doesn't prevail here so don't expect system improvements.

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory and personal attack posts removed

[ginglee]

No matter how big and macho the foreigner, and how small the Thais (even women), the foreigner is ALWAYS gonna get owned in the end (power in NUMBERS). It was quite a scene. The Thais were really small, the foreigner was really big, but the it was no contest.

One day one,or a group of farangs will settle the score.

There will never ever be enough !

[ginglee]

What goes around comes around. The aggresive Russian looked for trouble and he found it....If you go around with an aggresive attitide in Pattaya you will be at the wrong end of a beating. I like it that way...And for that reason I see far less violence and trouble in Pattaya, compared to the city I'm from in the UK...

[jinners]

As usual, the discussion trails off into unnecessary point scoring and smart arse comment. Don't know what it is with these TV commenters.

Anyway, back to the question, I have used it loads of times, never had or seen any trouble. I have also used the 'walk a bit' method and flagged one down which resulted in me either getting where I wanted to or getting off at Threppasit. One time I rang the bell as he turned off to Threppasit, he stopped to let me off then just carried on!

From what I understand, when its late, there will be drunks aplenty, the baht bus folks are probably sick of them and take liberty's and feelings get bent out of shape, with no common language (Thai-Russki) things escalate. Thankfully nobody was badly hurt or worse. Move on.................

[jinners]

He's never seen any violence. So what I saw last night EARLY EVENING (along with a large crowd) was a hallucination. Sorted.

Jingthing, you're really a sensitive sort and one that doesn't read the other posts properly. If HE said HE never saw violence before, that isn't questioning your integrity, is it? If YOU saw violence that isn't the same thing. Just wondering if English is maybe not your first language here? By the way, I, that's ME, have never seen any violence either.

[BugJackBaron]

Oh what I would give to see that ThaPraya road unpaved again - 5 years ago that kind of incident was unheard of.

Jomtien has gone downhill anyway and there are better places within ahalf an hour drive.

Edited February 11, 2014 by BugJackBaron

[Jingthing]

He's never seen any violence. So what I saw last night EARLY EVENING (along with a large crowd) was a hallucination. Sorted.

Jingthing, you're really a sensitive sort and one that doesn't read the other posts properly. If HE said HE never saw violence before, that isn't questioning your integrity, is it? If YOU saw violence that isn't the same thing. Just wondering if English is maybe not your first language here? By the way, I, that's ME, have never seen any violence either.

Don't be daft. He was suggesting it was an isolated incident. I am asserting you can FEEL the potential for violence in that queue much of the time. It is boiling under the surface. It is being "managed" EXTREMELY POORLY. It's a hazard to tourists and a PR nightmare for Pattaya tourism as it's one of the most important transport hubs in the region.

My first language was BABY TALK. What about you, mate?

Edited February 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[Emster23]

He's never seen any violence. So what I saw last night EARLY EVENING (along with a large crowd) was a hallucination. Sorted.

I did not say the might never be, but calling it a "cauldron of violence" implies that it is some sort of ongoing constant WWF tryouts type situation. But it isn't. Try rereading my post before coming to conclusion that I was doubting it took place or that you were hallucinating. Enough hyperbole's.

[Jingthing]

It's a good headline and I stand by it.

[jinners]

He's never seen any violence. So what I saw last night EARLY EVENING (along with a large crowd) was a hallucination. Sorted.

Jingthing, you're really a sensitive sort and one that doesn't read the other posts properly. If HE said HE never saw violence before, that isn't questioning your integrity, is it? If YOU saw violence that isn't the same thing. Just wondering if English is maybe not your first language here? By the way, I, that's ME, have never seen any violence either.

Don't be daft. He was suggesting it was an isolated incident. I am asserting you can FEEL the potential for violence in that queue much of the time. It is boiling under the surface. It is being "managed" EXTREMELY POORLY. It's a hazard to tourists and a PR nightmare for Pattaya tourism as it's one of the most important transport hubs in the region.

My first language was BABY TALK. What about you, mate?

I was wrong, perhaps English is your first language, its the ability to read and understand others that's the problem.

[Jingthing]

Understanding and agreeing are different things. I understand perfectly that some people are trying to sell the idea that there isn't a SERIOUS and ONGOING big problem at that queue. I ain't buying that.

[tropo]

Hardly having a conversation by asking "Jomtien?", and never been asked for more than the requisite fare. I also never suggested that the situation isn't worth discussing, only that I avoid the queue and therefore the situation you described.

Fine. One question -- how many times a year do you take this ride as described? Because without a LARGE SAMPLE, your results are not very meaningful.

LOL. I've taken the baht bus to Pratumnak Hill twice in 8 years and both times I had trouble with it turning off. One time I was left stranded at the Royal Cliff.... so that's 100% trouble trying to avoid the queue. Of course the baht bus driver saw that we had suitcases and it was raining, so he was going to attempt to screw us for a special trip. As it happened, we got out and caught a taxi standing nearby. I would have paid the same either way, but I wan't going to pay the baht bus driver for screwing us over.

If I was a regular user I'd use the queue. Perhaps Pratumnak Hill is more problematic than Jomtien, but I can't believe that a regular user would never have a problem with baht bus routing if flagging one down.

Edited February 11, 2014 by tropo

[tropo]

JT. Why don't you learn a bit of Thai. I've been in queues or faced potential dramas as you have, but if you smile and say something to the driver such as "there's a lot of crazy Falangs out tonight, and most of them smell don't ya think?", they'll probably piss themselves and let you ride shotgun in the A/C cab.

Your apparent reluctance to engage Thais (particularly bus drivers) in conversation (in any language) as highlighted in many of your posts intrigues me. Do you assume that every engagement must by definition be one of conflict?

I'm not interested in this thread being about me or your snarky insinuations about me. The topic is the To Jomtien baht bus queue.

Yeah, let's learn a foreign language so we can avoid problems with baht bus drivers. Never heard of a better reason to learn Thai.

Myself, I like it in Pattaya because I don't have to learn the language, besides, I wouldn't want to ride up front with those type, fluent Thai or not.

Edited February 11, 2014 by tropo

[tropo]

Thailiketoo accused me of being a bigot because I referred to Thais and their six to one odds, I remarked that I read this regularly on TV, and the answer I got was it was the keyboard warriors who reported on this subject. It is well known although I have never seen this myself, that if you retaliate against a Thai guy in any way, you have to take on any others who are nearby.

Now in my opinion, much as I believe the vast majority of Thai people are decent and honest, this is a Thai thing, now back in the UK (I cannot comment on other countries, except maybe America ) If you had a set to with a non Farang, there is almost no chance all the others who are nearby would automatically jump in with fists and boots flying the way the Thais would..

Years ago when I was in America with my girlfriend, we were in a self service restaurant and a non white guy jumped in front of the queue, when my GF complained to him he manhandled her, so I immediately jumped in and walloped him, there was a few other guys mostly white, and nobody jumped on me. Would that have happened in Thailand? I do not think so.

Jingthing, from what I can see, is a highly respected TV member, and is no keyboard warrior, and I believe what he witnessed was very typical of Thai guys. Their bad driving, not them all, and their cowardice, again not them all, are the only real things I do not like about Thailand, and I still say that the good far outweighs the bad in this country.

... so perhaps you'd rather see a small Thai guy being beaten senseless by a big foreigner one-on-one?

It makes a lot of sense for them to help each other out in cases where foreign bullies decide to fight. Is it really that bad? You can make a good case for many-on-one.

Would you have told us the story about the non-white guy jumping queue and manhandling your girlfriend if you lost the fight? Did you consider that he may have been carrying a deadly weapon? As it turned out you were lucky, but it was not intelligent behaviour. You probably made the decision to fight the guy because you felt the odds were in your favour.

Let's take another situation as an example. Let's say in America a good friend was being beaten up by another guy - would you step in to help?.. or would you just standby and watch?

Edited February 11, 2014 by tropo

[NoshowJones]

Thailiketoo accused me of being a bigot because I referred to Thais and their six to one odds, I remarked that I read this regularly on TV, and the answer I got was it was the keyboard warriors who reported on this subject. It is well known although I have never seen this myself, that if you retaliate against a Thai guy in any way, you have to take on any others who are nearby.

Now in my opinion, much as I believe the vast majority of Thai people are decent and honest, this is a Thai thing, now back in the UK (I cannot comment on other countries, except maybe America ) If you had a set to with a non Farang, there is almost no chance all the others who are nearby would automatically jump in with fists and boots flying the way the Thais would..

Years ago when I was in America with my girlfriend, we were in a self service restaurant and a non white guy jumped in front of the queue, when my GF complained to him he manhandled her, so I immediately jumped in and walloped him, there was a few other guys mostly white, and nobody jumped on me. Would that have happened in Thailand? I do not think so.

Jingthing, from what I can see, is a highly respected TV member, and is no keyboard warrior, and I believe what he witnessed was very typical of Thai guys. Their bad driving, not them all, and their cowardice, again not them all, are the only real things I do not like about Thailand, and I still say that the good far outweighs the bad in this country.

... so perhaps you'd rather see a small Thai guy being beaten senseless by a big foreigner one-on-one?

It makes a lot of sense for them to help each other out in cases where foreign bullies decide to fight. Is it really that bad? You can make a good case for many-on-one.

Would you have told us the story about the non-white guy jumping queue and man handling your wife if the guy put you away? Did you consider he might beat you up or carry a deadly weapon? As it turned out you were lucky, but it was not intelligent behaviour. You probably made the decision to fight the guy because you felt the odds were in your favour.

Yes, help each other out, but many on one? I will admit one thing though, if a big Farang guy takes on one small Thai, even if provoked, it would serve him right if he ended up with a doing from one or two of his friends, but certainly not many on one. Obviously you think that's OK, so we will have to disagree on this.

I agree what I did in the restaurant was not intelligent behaviour due to the circumstances you describe. But you aside, how many guys would allow someone to manhandle his wife or GF? Did you expect me just to ignore it? I did not fight the guy and I didn't know if the odds were on my favour.

I just hit him once, then seeing he was not going to try and hit me back, I just grabbed my GFs hand and we got out. I was only about thirty at the time, and did what most guys would have done.

I must say for anyone to think it is OK to fight with odds of many on one, these are your words. That is one opinion I cannot accept.

[NoshowJones]

Thailiketoo accused me of being a bigot because I referred to Thais and their six to one odds, I remarked that I read this regularly on TV, and the answer I got was it was the keyboard warriors who reported on this subject. It is well known although I have never seen this myself, that if you retaliate against a Thai guy in any way, you have to take on any others who are nearby.

Now in my opinion, much as I believe the vast majority of Thai people are decent and honest, this is a Thai thing, now back in the UK (I cannot comment on other countries, except maybe America ) If you had a set to with a non Farang, there is almost no chance all the others who are nearby would automatically jump in with fists and boots flying the way the Thais would..

Years ago when I was in America with my girlfriend, we were in a self service restaurant and a non white guy jumped in front of the queue, when my GF complained to him he manhandled her, so I immediately jumped in and walloped him, there was a few other guys mostly white, and nobody jumped on me. Would that have happened in Thailand? I do not think so.

Jingthing, from what I can see, is a highly respected TV member, and is no keyboard warrior, and I believe what he witnessed was very typical of Thai guys. Their bad driving, not them all, and their cowardice, again not them all, are the only real things I do not like about Thailand, and I still say that the good far outweighs the bad in this country.

... so perhaps you'd rather see a small Thai guy being beaten senseless by a big foreigner one-on-one?

It makes a lot of sense for them to help each other out in cases where foreign bullies decide to fight. Is it really that bad? You can make a good case for many-on-one.

Would you have told us the story about the non-white guy jumping queue and manhandling your girlfriend if you lost the fight? Did you consider that he may have been carrying a deadly weapon? As it turned out you were lucky, but it was not intelligent behaviour. You probably made the decision to fight the guy because you felt the odds were in your favour.

Let's take another situation as an example. Let's say in America a good friend was being beaten up by another guy - would you step in to help?.. or would you just standby and watch?

It would depend on the circumstances, the reason why he was being beaten up, etc.

[tropo]

Thailiketoo accused me of being a bigot because I referred to Thais and their six to one odds, I remarked that I read this regularly on TV, and the answer I got was it was the keyboard warriors who reported on this subject. It is well known although I have never seen this myself, that if you retaliate against a Thai guy in any way, you have to take on any others who are nearby.

Now in my opinion, much as I believe the vast majority of Thai people are decent and honest, this is a Thai thing, now back in the UK (I cannot comment on other countries, except maybe America ) If you had a set to with a non Farang, there is almost no chance all the others who are nearby would automatically jump in with fists and boots flying the way the Thais would..

Years ago when I was in America with my girlfriend, we were in a self service restaurant and a non white guy jumped in front of the queue, when my GF complained to him he manhandled her, so I immediately jumped in and walloped him, there was a few other guys mostly white, and nobody jumped on me. Would that have happened in Thailand? I do not think so.

Jingthing, from what I can see, is a highly respected TV member, and is no keyboard warrior, and I believe what he witnessed was very typical of Thai guys. Their bad driving, not them all, and their cowardice, again not them all, are the only real things I do not like about Thailand, and I still say that the good far outweighs the bad in this country.

... so perhaps you'd rather see a small Thai guy being beaten senseless by a big foreigner one-on-one?

It makes a lot of sense for them to help each other out in cases where foreign bullies decide to fight. Is it really that bad? You can make a good case for many-on-one.

Would you have told us the story about the non-white guy jumping queue and manhandling your girlfriend if you lost the fight? Did you consider that he may have been carrying a deadly weapon? As it turned out you were lucky, but it was not intelligent behaviour. You probably made the decision to fight the guy because you felt the odds were in your favour.

Let's take another situation as an example. Let's say in America a good friend was being beaten up by another guy - would you step in to help?.. or would you just standby and watch?

It would depend on the circumstances, the reason why he was being beaten up, etc.

Really, so you'd let a good friend get beaten up in certain circumstances if you could help?

Seriously, there could be many situations where my wife could be manhandled and I'd be powerless to do anything about it.

I'm sure if the guy was twice your size you'd have thought twice about taking a swing. You'd have to decide on the worst of two evils - you're wife being touched up or you ending up dead or in hospital.

You're in a foreign land where locals are usually about half your size - what do you expect? They take some rough measurements in size and decide how many to make a fair fight?

I really understand them. This whole "fair fight" concept is really meaningless on the street.

Edited February 11, 2014 by tropo

[Beetlejuice]

JT. Why don't you learn a bit of Thai. I've been in queues or faced potential dramas as you have, but if you smile and say something to the driver such as "there's a lot of crazy Falangs out tonight, and most of them smell don't ya think?", they'll probably piss themselves and let you ride shotgun in the A/C cab.

Your apparent reluctance to engage Thais (particularly bus drivers) in conversation (in any language) as highlighted in many of your posts intrigues me. Do you assume that every engagement must by definition be one of conflict?

I'm not interested in this thread being about me or your snarky insinuations about me. The topic is the To Jomtien baht bus queue.

Then as to your question "Where is the local Pattaya English language "press" on this issue", why don't you take some action to have the matter reported and approach the press yourself to see if you can't get some reporting done on the issue. Or is that too proactive.

Consider the amount of crime that takes place in Pattaya every year, this event could hardly be described as an exclusive.

[NoshowJones]

Thailiketoo accused me of being a bigot because I referred to Thais and their six to one odds, I remarked that I read this regularly on TV, and the answer I got was it was the keyboard warriors who reported on this subject. It is well known although I have never seen this myself, that if you retaliate against a Thai guy in any way, you have to take on any others who are nearby.

Now in my opinion, much as I believe the vast majority of Thai people are decent and honest, this is a Thai thing, now back in the UK (I cannot comment on other countries, except maybe America ) If you had a set to with a non Farang, there is almost no chance all the others who are nearby would automatically jump in with fists and boots flying the way the Thais would..

Years ago when I was in America with my girlfriend, we were in a self service restaurant and a non white guy jumped in front of the queue, when my GF complained to him he manhandled her, so I immediately jumped in and walloped him, there was a few other guys mostly white, and nobody jumped on me. Would that have happened in Thailand? I do not think so.

Jingthing, from what I can see, is a highly respected TV member, and is no keyboard warrior, and I believe what he witnessed was very typical of Thai guys. Their bad driving, not them all, and their cowardice, again not them all, are the only real things I do not like about Thailand, and I still say that the good far outweighs the bad in this country.

... so perhaps you'd rather see a small Thai guy being beaten senseless by a big foreigner one-on-one?

It makes a lot of sense for them to help each other out in cases where foreign bullies decide to fight. Is it really that bad? You can make a good case for many-on-one.

Would you have told us the story about the non-white guy jumping queue and manhandling your girlfriend if you lost the fight? Did you consider that he may have been carrying a deadly weapon? As it turned out you were lucky, but it was not intelligent behaviour. You probably made the decision to fight the guy because you felt the odds were in your favour.

Let's take another situation as an example. Let's say in America a good friend was being beaten up by another guy - would you step in to help?.. or would you just standby and watch?

It would depend on the circumstances, the reason why he was being beaten up, etc.

Really, so you'd let a good friend get beaten up in certain circumstances if you could help?

Seriously, there could be many situations where my wife could be manhandled and I'd be powerless to do anything about it.

I'm sure if the guy was twice your size you'd have thought twice about taking a swing. You'd have to decide on the worst of two evils - you're wife being touched up or you ending up dead or in hospital.

You're in a foreign land where locals are usually about half your size - what do you expect? They take some rough measurements in size and decide how many to make a fair fight?

I really understand them. This whole "fair fight" concept is really meaningless on the street.

I do not wish to debate any further with someone who thinks it is all right for many guys (your words) to set upon one person no matter the circumstances. We will just agree to disagree and that is the end of the matter.

[tropo]

I do not wish to debate any further with someone who thinks it is all right for many guys (your words) to set upon one person no matter the circumstances. We will just agree to disagree and that is the end of the matter.

The debate will indeed be over when you stop replying, so up to you.

I think "many" was originally your word, but nonetheless...

... you've lost touch with reality. Your country (and most others) fights and wins wars by overwhelming their enemy by "shock and awe", yet you cannot see the commonsense of Thais sticking together on the streets when faced with a common foe - disrespectful, overbearing, egotistical foreigners.

I'm sure you know it's usually the tourists who just flew in who end up with problems. There's no doubt in my mind that Russians look down on Thais and Asians in general. My wife sees it at the markets and around town where they try to push her around because she's small. They have absolutely no respect for the locals.

The problem is easy to avoid - Remain un-confrontational at all times.

Edited February 11, 2014 by tropo

[Jingthing]

OMG!

This is some website here.

"Cauldron of violence" -- THIS thread, front page, result number FOUR on google.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[HerbalEd]

Never have a problem with a taxi.

[Beetlejuice]

Never have a problem with a taxi.

Neither do I.

I just do all the wheeling and dealing with the driver prior to taking the journey and if not satisfied with the deal, I smile, say never mind and try another taxi.

The problems for many farangs visiting or living in Thailand is that having to behave politely, with courtesy and respectfully, is too much of a challenge for them, then they fail to understand why the Thais will not tolerate their sorts of behaviour, especially from foreigners that they consider are being disrespectful and have no regards for the country or it`s people as a whole.

What maybe acceptable or more tolerated in their own countries they have to realise will not be tolerated here, meaning, they have to learn when to draw the line or the queue as in the baht bus case.

[Benmart]

I used to do that and too many times they turn off and go deep into hill during the route. They aren't under obligation to go all the way to Jomtien just because they picked you up. They might be going somewhere else. I'd rather brave the queue and know 100 percent where they are going.

I always question "Jomtien?", never had one turn off in four years, but if you prefer sitting there in the heat, surrounded by BO until they fill the bus, up to you.

Did that today. The queue was chaotic so I walked a coupe blocks and had a passing songtaow to myself until a Russian family got on halfway to Jomtien. I try to avoid crowds and lines. A bit of experimentation and exploring is not only fun but rewarding as well

[clip]

Where is the local Pattaya English language "press" on this issue ... the continuing atmosphere of violence and chaos at a VERY IMPORTANT transport hub for Pattaya TOURISM, the queue in question?

Do the tourism promoters imagine the situation there is GOOD PR for Pattaya tourism?

This ugly situation has been going on for years, and I don't recall even ONE story about it in the local press.

Are they afraid?

oh Jingthing what are we going to do with you ? you have way too much time on your hands , you really do have to get a life and let this bahtbus thing go !!!!!

[Jingthing]

oh Jingthing what are we going to do with you ? you have way too much time on your hands , you really do have to get a life and let this bahtbus thing go !!!!!

Do you actually think that kind of sniping has any value to anyone?

In other words: kindly do not address me with your suggestions for my PERSONAL business ever again.

"Thank you"

Very very much.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Jingthing

[Exsexyman]

I use the queue at South Pattaya several times a week, and have done for a few years. Although i think to call it a cauldron of violence is probably a bit over the top, it is noticeable that it is progressively changing for the worse over the past couple of years. I have to agree with Tropo regarding his observations re the Russian tourists, my experience around town, and especially in the baht bus queue, leads me to the exact same conclusion. I would add that it is not just the Thais that they look down on, it seems to be everybody. They have no concept of basic politeness, respect for other people, etc etc, they just barge through, elbowing everybody out of the way, totally ignoring any queue. The elderly, young children, Thai or Farang all get the same treatment. I have seen them pulling people who have already started to board the bus out of the way and pushing past them. No wonder there is sometimes an underlying feeling of potential violence. Once on board they spread out, sometimes two of them will turn inwards facing each other thereby taking up 3 seats. This is when the Thai loaders get ratty, all regulars will know that the bus won't depart until they have squeezed at least 5, preferably 6 passengers each side, with at least a couple standing on the back footplate. This is when i see the potential violence, more than a few times i have seen Russian passengers refusing to move up, shouting aggressively at the driver or loader. I realize that some will accuse me of an anti Russian rant, but any regulars on this route, if they put their hand on their heart will know i am speaking the truth. This is a problem which didn't really exist until relatively recently, ie, when Russian tourists, (who now make up the vast majority of passengers on this route), arrived. To be fair the drivers and loaders sometimes have a lot to put up with. I will relate an incident i witnessed a few weeks ago in the South Pattaya queue. Waiting were a Russian couple, each with a large suitcase, hand luggage and a pushchair with a small child aboard. Now surely common sense would dictate that they should charter a bus to take them to their hotel in Jomtien. But no, they expected to get on the 10 baht special, taking up all the room thinking that would be OK with the driver. What followed was a stand up argument that got increasingly heated, with the couple being told by the loading lady that if they wanted to go to Jomtien they would have to charter a bus, and pay 150 baht. They of course refused, insisting on only paying 10 baht each. After about 5 minutes of arguing it ended with them storming off on foot in the direction of Jomtien, presumably hoping to flag one down further along the road. To be honest i didn't rate their chances of getting a 10 baht ride very highly! Sadly i think as Farangs we probably all get tarred with the same brush by the Thais.

[Jingthing]

Cauldron of violence over the top?

Literary licentiousness, my friend.

[Exsexyman]

Cauldron of violence over the top?

Literary licentiousness, my friend.

Absolutely JT. Although to be fair i did say,"Probably A BIT over the top!