The Cheap Charlie experience.

[benalibina]

Thais use it amongst each other mainly, it's the equivalent of "tight arse".

They use it more often than Westerners would though, as the concept of saving money doesn't exist in Thailand and a lot of Thais just don't get why one would have money but choose not to spend it.

The saving for a rainy day concept exists everywhere.

With the Thais what you are seeing is a false pride/insecurity that manifests as a 'not caring' attitude. Or, lack of brains and education on how to invest or produce something that would yield benefits over time. Like a farm tool that would pay for itself eventually, but costs more initially to purchase. (For example, just using an outdated tool which makes things harder as time goes on and eventually leads to other problems).

Probably mostly lack of brains, or just so many accumulated problems that it's just pissed away on booze at the end of the day.

It has nothing to do with Thais' IQs. Actually the concept of saving for a rainy day doesn't exist here, I remember reading an interesting article that suggested it was indeed due to the weather. The absence of Wintertime means they never had to learn to store for harsher times.

They use the story of the Ant and the Grasshopper to teach the kids about hard work and plan for future, but I guess it did not translate into the children's adult life. It is just that they know they can always count on their children to take care of them, so saving money is not as important.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Manipulation like this does not set the kids free. Duty but no sense and responsability cause the cycle to continue....at no shame for some...

[Somsrisonphimai]

Thais use it amongst each other mainly, it's the equivalent of "tight arse".

They use it more often than Westerners would though, as the concept of saving money doesn't exist in Thailand and a lot of Thais just don't get why one would have money but choose not to spend it.

The saving for a rainy day concept exists everywhere.

With the Thais what you are seeing is a false pride/insecurity that manifests as a 'not caring' attitude. Or, lack of brains and education on how to invest or produce something that would yield benefits over time. Like a farm tool that would pay for itself eventually, but costs more initially to purchase. (For example, just using an outdated tool which makes things harder as time goes on and eventually leads to other problems).

Probably mostly lack of brains, or just so many accumulated problems that it's just pissed away on booze at the end of the day.

It has nothing to do with Thais' IQs. Actually the concept of saving for a rainy day doesn't exist here, I remember reading an interesting article that suggested it was indeed due to the weather. The absence of Wintertime means they never had to learn to store for harsher times.

They use the story of the Ant and the Grasshopper to teach the kids about hard work and plan for future, but I guess it did not translate into the children's adult life. It is just that they know they can always count on their children to take care of them, so saving money is not as important.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Manipulation like this does not set the kids free. Duty but no sense and responsability cause the cycle to continue....at no shame for some...

Yes, I totally agree. I don't see how that would change.

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[Scottythai]

Every country has people who live pay cheque to pay cheque. Ratios may vary but lets be honest there are lots of Thais I know who can save and some that don't. It's no different than the people I know in Canada. It seems lately people like to talk about what other people do here with their money. Last I looked they earned it if they want to give every cent to the temple then so be it in my eyes.

[driedmango]

there is a great bar in suk 11 called cheap charlies...

other than that there is nothing worse than having to suffer in the company of some cheap $%$# that always talks about saving a bhat here and there or talking about loose change in general, or pathetic as watching someone who a few $$ means nothing walking in the heat in a bad mood trying to save something for the sake of it..

i don't mind thirfy people and it is a good life skill, but there is a fine line, if you don't speak about it, fine, if it starts to spill over into you mentioning the price of everything and being proud being a selfish, cheap low class bum, then i am like, pfftt.... slap

i have much more respect for those that live modest but give away what they have to others.

[driedmango]

Thais use it amongst each other mainly, it's the equivalent of "tight arse".

They use it more often than Westerners would though, as the concept of saving money doesn't exist in Thailand and a lot of Thais just don't get why one would have money but choose not to spend it.

i don't think so, but i think it is frowned on much to be selfish in general and to get upset about not winning in every transaction, i like it to be honest i can't stand anymore being around cheap cry baby spoiled me me me brats anymore ... get a grip people

[driedmango]

Its a ahaming tactic to coerce baht out ot you. Only encountered it in heavy foreign tourist areas. Most of the morons who call others cheap, havent got 2baht to rub together and certainly arnt tippers themselves. Low class trash basically

I do agree with this... sometimes you have to explain to somone that if you were stupid with your money you wouldn't be so "ricH' as to be able to fly away in the 1st place as you would have gave all your money to the fat lady that serves you half full pints at the local pub at home.

[cobra]

Being cheap is the new chic, as the world is now divided in the 1% that own 95% of the capital and the 99% that shares the crumbs.

I don't believe anyone here is in the 1%

So get real we 're all cheap to different degrees.

Speak for yourself,

I assure you 1%'ers abound,

Yes, I over-tip to compensate for the abject CC, the under-funded pensioner, the but it's the principle of it rationalizers, etc,

And to see the smile on a proprietor face, no matter how ingenious, simply because I relieved myself of coinage that would just go in the ash tray for the maid

or putting a little folding baht directly in their hand.

They're not necessarily smiling because what a perceived fool I am, but because somebody appreciated what they do,

and at the end of the day you can't take it with you.

It's not a matter of frugality, it's a matter of attitude, some people are just plain cheap and that's their prerogative,

But don't worry, this 1%er already tipped enough to make up your lack of same. Your welcome.

[mrowe1973]

My opinion is that a cheap Charlie is a a smart Charlie. Even Thai girls know some farang are just throw their money away. You can be generous while also being smart!

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[HardenedSoul]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

[Somsrisonphimai]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

What? I thought they are here in Thailand because of their wives/GF.

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[angrybird]

A glance over the hottest topics particularly in Pattaya have the word cheap and its derivatives and synonyms.

[Bernard Flint]

SIRS

Normaly cheap charlie is refered in the sex monger community.Maybe a bar owner who,s drink prices are expensive,due to his western life style,thewn moans because another bar is less expensive,so he bemoans cheap charlies for not going into his bar.Also sex mongers who pay 1,000 baht for barfine,then 2,500 baht for st,then attacks another sex monger if he pays less,accusing him of being a cheap charlie.Not tipping in a bar,is deemed as cheap charlie,not that the service stunk,so no tip,but being a cheap charlie.Not buying lady drinks all night because one is married or has a partner,this is deemed as being a cheap charlie.

My thoughts are if one pays 2,500 for st and some other girl is offering same for 4,000 baht,then the guy who pays 2,500 is a cheap charlie then.If someone tips 100 baht for a service,if someone tips 200 baht then the 100 baht tipper is a cheap charlie.

I blame the two week millionaires who pretend they have a good job,and loads a money,the bar girls lactualy bel;ive all the lies they tell them.Living here for many years,one heres so much bull from tourists,the bar girls dont believe them now.One guy told a bg he owned a very large taxi business in south wales,he was a part time taxi driver,payed in cash and was a dole scounger,go figure.

[Bernard Flint]

Thais use it amongst each other mainly, it's the equivalent of "tight arse".

They use it more often than Westerners would though, as the concept of saving money doesn't exist in Thailand and a lot of Thais just don't get why one would have money but choose not to spend it.

The saving for a rainy day concept exists everywhere.

With the Thais what you are seeing is a false pride/insecurity that manifests as a 'not caring' attitude. Or, lack of brains and education on how to invest or produce something that would yield benefits over time. Like a farm tool that would pay for itself eventually, but costs more initially to purchase. (For example, just using an outdated tool which makes things harder as time goes on and eventually leads to other problems).

Probably mostly lack of brains, or just so many accumulated problems that it's just pissed away on booze at the end of the day.

It has nothing to do with Thais' IQs. Actually the concept of saving for a rainy day doesn't exist here, I remember reading an interesting article that suggested it was indeed due to the weather. The absence of Wintertime means they never had to learn to store for harsher times.

They use the story of the Ant and the Grasshopper to teach the kids about hard work and plan for future, but I guess it did not translate into the children's adult life. It is just that they know they can always count on their children to take care of them, so saving money is not as important.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Manipulation like this does not set the kids free. Duty but no sense and responsability cause the cycle to continue....at no shame for some...

Yes, I totally agree. I don't see how that would change.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

WRONG

I know many farangs who dont save for a rainy day,dont have a p[rivate pension,dont pay into the uk pension fund for retirement.dont olwn a house etc etc

[Sam Gold]

It has nothing to do with Thais' IQs. Actually the concept of saving for a rainy day doesn't exist here, I remember reading an interesting article that suggested it was indeed due to the weather. The absence of Wintertime means they never had to learn to store for harsher times.

Where do you people get this shit from?

I know many Thais who put money by for a rainy day and I bet a lot of other posters do too.

Those among the TV forum membership who routinely force these generalizations out of their <deleted> are usually the ones who have the hardest time dealing with life in this country.

NIce bit of psychological profiling, you've got me all figured out, very impressive, and I love the scatophilic reference too, real class.

We all know exceptions but it's essential, for the sake of relevance, to take a step back and remain unbiased. Thais will typically buy gold if they have money to spare, which allows them to sell it back easily when they need cash. If they have 20K they will buy 20K of gold and be "Sabai Jai", on top of showing others they have money which would not be the case if it was in bank. Secondly, as reminded by Somsrisonphimai, they don't worry about retirement as it's normal to be supported by their kids.

[Sam Gold]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

According to Standard & Poors, Thailand has the largest household debt ratio in Asia with an alarming growing rate, so it isn't drivel unfortunately. What do they expect when half the cars on the roads are owned by people who just can't afford them - the direct result of appaling loose lending practices by banks.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Sam Gold

[Scottythai]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

The debts incurred by Western countries are the result of governmental actions, not people's spending habits, so not relevant here.

Excuse me? Debts are from both. People borrowing hugs sums of money when the market and job rate was high with out a way to pay it back was one of the biggest reasons of most debt! I think you need to read and check facts a bit more. Banks lending huge sums of money to people who did not meet the qualifications for loans brought most of the banking down.

[sam sen]

back home people love a bargain, a sale, getting a product or service at a lower price - and quite rightly so.

i have never heard anyone back home criticised for making a saving on a purchase. why do people do it here?

in contrast i have known a couple of thai's who said they would never pay a low price for something - they saw it as somehow losing face!

... on the other hand you should see the long lines of people queuing for the free food and snacks at the protest sites - are they to be criticised?!

[Bandersnatch]

I was sitting in a roadside restaurant last week, when a Russian man aged about 30 sat down at the next table. When the boy came over to take his order, he ordered just rice. It was delivered and then he covered it with ketchup. The owner came over and told him that he could not order just rice, if he did, he would have to pay 20baht. He pointed to the menu where it said 10 baht. Only with food she said. So he left without eating the rice.

I am not sure if this counts as CC, but I thought it was pretty sad.

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[Somsrisonphimai]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

The debts incurred by Western countries are the result of governmental actions, not people's spending habits, so not relevant here.

Excuse me? Debts are from both. People borrowing hugs sums of money when the market and job rate was high with out a way to pay it back was one of the biggest reasons of most debt! I think you need to read and check facts a bit more. Banks lending huge sums of money to people who did not meet the qualifications for loans brought most of the banking down.

But the banks lend the money to the people because the government told them to.

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Edited February 24, 2014 by Somsrisonphimai

[thailiketoo]

Where do you people get this shit from?

I know many Thais who put money by for a rainy day and I bet a lot of other posters do too.

Those among the TV forum membership who routinely force these generalizations out of their <deleted> are usually the ones who have the hardest time dealing with life in this country.

NIce bit of psychological profiling, you've got me all figured out, very impressive, and I love the scatophilic reference too, real class.

We all know exceptions but it's essential, for the sake of relevance, to take a step back and remain unbiased. Thais will typically buy gold if they have money to spare, which allows them to sell it back easily when they need cash. If they have 20K they will buy 20K of gold and be "Sabai Jai", on top of showing others they have money which would not be the case if it was in bank. Secondly, as reminded by Somsrisonphimai, they don't worry about retirement as it's normal to be supported by their kids.

All the Thai people I know will typically buy land when they have money. All of the Thai people I know do worry about retirement. All of the Thai people I know think it is foolish to dress too well as others will get the impression they are trying to impress people. All of the people I know when they see a Thai person with a lot of gold laugh at them and are critical of the ostentation shown by the lower classes.

What Sam Gold is describing above is trailer trash in any country.

Edited February 24, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Sam Gold]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

The debts incurred by Western countries are the result of governmental actions, not people's spending habits, so not relevant here.

Excuse me? Debts are from both. People borrowing hugs sums of money when the market and job rate was high with out a way to pay it back was one of the biggest reasons of most debt! I think you need to read and check facts a bit more. Banks lending huge sums of money to people who did not meet the qualifications for loans brought most of the banking down.

Exactly my point - countries whose citizens traditionally had sound saving habits, such as France and Switzerland, have been backed into a corner and forced into the spiral of debt over the past six years. The people aren't responsible for the financial crisis, and it isn't relevant to mention the recent state of affairs in a debate about people's spending habits in general.

[Sam Gold]

Where do you people get this shit from?

I know many Thais who put money by for a rainy day and I bet a lot of other posters do too.

Those among the TV forum membership who routinely force these generalizations out of their <deleted> are usually the ones who have the hardest time dealing with life in this country.

NIce bit of psychological profiling, you've got me all figured out, very impressive, and I love the scatophilic reference too, real class.

We all know exceptions but it's essential, for the sake of relevance, to take a step back and remain unbiased. Thais will typically buy gold if they have money to spare, which allows them to sell it back easily when they need cash. If they have 20K they will buy 20K of gold and be "Sabai Jai", on top of showing others they have money which would not be the case if it was in bank. Secondly, as reminded by Somsrisonphimai, they don't worry about retirement as it's normal to be supported by their kids.

All the Thai people I know will typically buy land when they have money. All of the Thai people I know do worry about retirement. All of the Thai people I know think it is foolish to dress too well as others will get the impression they are trying to impress people. All of the people I know when they see a Thai person with a lot of gold laugh at them and are critical of the ostentation shown by the lower classes.

What Sam Gold is describing above is trailer trash in any country.

So all the Thais you know are middle to upper class, which is fair enough, but I was referring to Thais in general. Again, it is important to step back from our personal experiences in order to be relevant. 75% of Thais are from rural regions and have below-par education. It's a bit unfair to refer to the vast majority of a country's citizens as trailer trash IMO.

[thailiketoo]

Where do you people get this shit from?

I know many Thais who put money by for a rainy day and I bet a lot of other posters do too.

Those among the TV forum membership who routinely force these generalizations out of their <deleted> are usually the ones who have the hardest time dealing with life in this country.

NIce bit of psychological profiling, you've got me all figured out, very impressive, and I love the scatophilic reference too, real class.

We all know exceptions but it's essential, for the sake of relevance, to take a step back and remain unbiased. Thais will typically buy gold if they have money to spare, which allows them to sell it back easily when they need cash. If they have 20K they will buy 20K of gold and be "Sabai Jai", on top of showing others they have money which would not be the case if it was in bank. Secondly, as reminded by Somsrisonphimai, they don't worry about retirement as it's normal to be supported by their kids.

All the Thai people I know will typically buy land when they have money. All of the Thai people I know do worry about retirement. All of the Thai people I know think it is foolish to dress too well as others will get the impression they are trying to impress people. All of the people I know when they see a Thai person with a lot of gold laugh at them and are critical of the ostentation shown by the lower classes.

What Sam Gold is describing above is trailer trash in any country.

So all the Thais you know are middle to upper class, which is fair enough, but I was referring to Thais in general. Again, it is important to step back from our personal experiences in order to be relevant. 75% of Thais are from rural regions and have below-par education. It's a bit unfair to refer to the vast majority of a country's citizens as trailer trash IMO.

Report it like it is. If there is a wide difference between the poor and middle and upper classes so be it. It is one of the reasons Thais are having all the problems now.

The image of the gold laden old crone dancing at an Issan trailer trash party is not exclusive to Thailand. You got trailer trash weddings where the amount of moonshine consumed is equivalent to the amount bottled water consumed at a high class wedding.

What you are talking about with the gold and short sighted investment objective is trailer trash logic.

Thailand is rapidly educating it's population and even now has a surplus of college grads. So it eventually will change. 500,000 college grads per year will eventually change the gold covered mom frolicking in the rice field. http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/print.php?id=2435

Edited February 24, 2014 by thailiketoo

[robblok]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

I 100% agree, i also know enough Thais that save, maybe they are just smarter maybe an other social group as the lowest of the low many guys here seem to be with all the time.

I have seen it so many times people with almost no money / prospects having to put Thais down just to feel good.

There are enough legitimate complaints about Thailand but this is not one of them.

If you mix with those who have almost no money / education you wont see them save much. Others that i know certainly save and even among those poor there are those smart enough to save.

I still have good contact with back home because of my job, now I am doing income tax for people who went into personal bankruptcy loads of them.. and I can tell you they are all Dutch not Thai. Usually the lower end of the social circle (but not always)

[robblok]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

The debts incurred by Western countries are the result of governmental actions, not people's spending habits, so not relevant here.

Excuse me? Debts are from both. People borrowing hugs sums of money when the market and job rate was high with out a way to pay it back was one of the biggest reasons of most debt! I think you need to read and check facts a bit more. Banks lending huge sums of money to people who did not meet the qualifications for loans brought most of the banking down.

I wonder what kind of education sam gold has. People who know almost nothing about how it was back home. I work as a tax / adviser / accountant i see all kinds of income and debt. I bet guys like Sam Gold have not.

[thailiketoo]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

The debts incurred by Western countries are the result of governmental actions, not people's spending habits, so not relevant here.

Excuse me? Debts are from both. People borrowing hugs sums of money when the market and job rate was high with out a way to pay it back was one of the biggest reasons of most debt! I think you need to read and check facts a bit more. Banks lending huge sums of money to people who did not meet the qualifications for loans brought most of the banking down.

Exactly my point - countries whose citizens traditionally had sound saving habits, such as France and Switzerland, have been backed into a corner and forced into the spiral of debt over the past six years. The people aren't responsible for the financial crisis, and it isn't relevant to mention the recent state of affairs in a debate about people's spending habits in general.

Too funny. You forgot Scotland! Sam tell me you don't really believe this nonsense do you?

[robblok]

The debts incurred by Western countries are the result of governmental actions, not people's spending habits, so not relevant here.

Excuse me? Debts are from both. People borrowing hugs sums of money when the market and job rate was high with out a way to pay it back was one of the biggest reasons of most debt! I think you need to read and check facts a bit more. Banks lending huge sums of money to people who did not meet the qualifications for loans brought most of the banking down.

Exactly my point - countries whose citizens traditionally had sound saving habits, such as France and Switzerland, have been backed into a corner and forced into the spiral of debt over the past six years. The people aren't responsible for the financial crisis, and it isn't relevant to mention the recent state of affairs in a debate about people's spending habits in general.

Too funny. You forgot Scotland! Sam tell me you don't really believe this nonsense do you?

I bet he wears a tinfoil hat, nobody forced anyone to borrow too much they all did it themselves.

[seajae]

to me a cheap charlie is someone that will come to your place with a six pack, drink your beer all night then take his home. Never suffered from it, even when money is scarce I tend to be on the generous side, I always leave a tip but the daughter will pick it up and take it then tell me off.

Being aussie I have always tended to help others when I have been able to, just the way I was raised but I will not just hand over money to the wifes family, that is strictly off limits.

[Scottythai]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

The debts incurred by Western countries are the result of governmental actions, not people's spending habits, so not relevant here.

Excuse me? Debts are from both. People borrowing hugs sums of money when the market and job rate was high with out a way to pay it back was one of the biggest reasons of most debt! I think you need to read and check facts a bit more. Banks lending huge sums of money to people who did not meet the qualifications for loans brought most of the banking down.

But the banks lend the money to the people because the government told them to.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

But if people were not greedy and reaching beyond their needs they would have never asked for the loan. We could make a circle out of this very easy. It is the people who choose to borrow the money. The government did not walk up with $250,000 And say here pay me back later..... People need to take the blame for their actions. Easy to say Government when we must look at our selves first.

[Somsrisonphimai]

Can Westerners really label Thais as being unable to save when many of us come from countries with the highest level of personal indebtedness?

I wouldn't mind if the comments were made in the spirit of a warning as in "Don't make the mistakes we did" but they're not; some actually have the gall to suggest that we in the West are somehow less susceptible to the lure of consumerism than the Thais and therefore, are somehow superior

Drivel. Pure drivel

The debts incurred by Western countries are the result of governmental actions, not people's spending habits, so not relevant here.

Excuse me? Debts are from both. People borrowing hugs sums of money when the market and job rate was high with out a way to pay it back was one of the biggest reasons of most debt! I think you need to read and check facts a bit more. Banks lending huge sums of money to people who did not meet the qualifications for loans brought most of the banking down.

But the banks lend the money to the people because the government told them to.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

But if people were not greedy and reaching beyond their needs they would have never asked for the loan. We could make a circle out of this very easy. It is the people who choose to borrow the money. The government did not walk up with $250,000 And say here pay me back later..... People need to take the blame for their actions. Easy to say Government when we must look at our selves first.

We are off the topic and I am sure this will be deleted. I know people need to take the blame, but the government wants everyone to have a piece of the American Dream, so...

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Edited February 24, 2014 by Somsrisonphimai