Political chaos in Thailand: Slow process towards AEC concerns foreign chambers

[webfact]

POLITICAL CHAOS
Slow process towards AEC concerns foreign chambers
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand urged Thailand to sort out the political impasse as soon as possible, in light of the long must-do list ahead of the launch of Asean Economic Community (AEC) in 2015.

In a statement, it encourage the speedy resolution of the political problems so that the government can complete the necessary regulatory and process changes to enable the AEC agreements to operate and to allow all organisations in Thailand, and Thai citizens to gain the benefits that the AEC offers.

"If this work is not completed, the JFCCT believes there is a real and significant danger that Thailand will fall behind its neighbours in many areas," it said.

JFCCT is the umbrella organisation coving some 29 foreign chambers of commerce and business associations in Thailand with over 8,000 member firms.

Noting that it has no involvement in Thai politics, as a stakeholder it was deeply concerned with the present divide and situation.

"A number of specific changes to laws and procedures are required to ensure smooth implementation and to allow Thai companies and citizens to obtain the benefits envisioned. The current political situation, unclear outcome of elections, uncertainty of government functions and control issues raise significant concern in terms of decision making and implementation capabilities. Some changes will require a functioning parliament."

It reckoned that there are uncertainties involving the AEC and many members have indicated they are looking at alternatives in the region.

For example, to allow the labour changes to work, the Thai labour law needs amendment. A sitting parliament needs to do this. To allow the services changes involving ASEAN national foreign ownership of up to 70%, the Foreign Business Act and some other procedures need to be changed. Other changes needed include a large effort to harmonize the many varied definitions, standards and procedures. These include labelling, university qualifications, taxes, and customs practices. The ministers of multiple departments and staff from many ministries need to agree and implement these.

Without a clear and cohesive plan or strategy for finishing the AEC efforts or for communicating the opportunities to Thai citizens and companies. There is much detailed work to be completed, and the JFCCT urges all of the Thai government to work with the various stakeholders to make the strategic decisions and develop a detailed plan.

The JFCCT believes that the opportunities and benefits presented from the AEC are enormous for Thailand and its citizens, but the current political environment allows other countries to move ahead and forces some investors to look towards these other countries as preferred investment and management bases in the region.

"Thailand is losing out and is likely to be left behind or taken over in the competition for foreign investment, technology advances and securing of energy supplies."

-- The Nation 2014-03-04

[bigbamboo]

In F1 terms when all the ASEAN nations are revving up waiting for the off in the AEC Grand Prix Thailand will be the one starting from the pit lane.

Edited March 4, 2014 by bigbamboo

[Chang_paarp]

In F1 terms when all the ASEAN nations are revving up on the grid waiting for the off in the AEC Grand Prix Thailand will be the one starting from the pit lane.

Do you think they will be that close to ready?

I would have said they would be starting from the garage, still looking for the wheels, given current focus on other things.

[Tatsujin]

In F1 terms when all the ASEAN nations are revving up on the grid waiting for the off in the AEC Grand Prix Thailand will be the one starting from the pit lane.

Do you think they will be that close to ready?

I would have said they would be starting from the garage, still looking for the wheels, given current focus on other things.

Come on guys, they're not even that far advanced . . . they are still deciding if they even want to enter the race . . . and that all depends on what "sponsorship" deals (kickbacks) they can make beforehand.

[Robby nz]

Why hasn't this all been already done ?

How long have the PT Govt known about the AEC and the 2015 date ?

Surly it should have been a priority as it is something, as the gent says, that will have a big impact on the country.

All the ministries are still in place and the same, there are supposed to be caretaker ministers, so why cant the individual ministries go ahead and prepare the detailed plans to be forward to a parliament once one is in place ?

In reality what would MP's add to the process except rubber stamping the plans and law changes put forward by those in the ministries who have the real knowledge of what is needed.

MP's are after all, with a few exceptions, a bunch of know nothings elected on promises and big talk.

[clockman]

The european union has not worked! so why should Asean work?

[ramrod711]

"Thailand is losing out and is likely to be left behind or taken over in the competition for foreign investment, technology advances and securing of energy supplies."

This is of no concern, once the amnesty bill passes Thaksin will lead us to the promised land....oops.

[andid]

Why hasn't this all been already done ?

How long have the PT Govt known about the AEC and the 2015 date ?

Surly it should have been a priority as it is something, as the gent says, that will have a big impact on the country.

All the ministries are still in place and the same, there are supposed to be caretaker ministers, so why cant the individual ministries go ahead and prepare the detailed plans to be forward to a parliament once one is in place ?

In reality what would MP's add to the process except rubber stamping the plans and law changes put forward by those in the ministries who have the real knowledge of what is needed.

MP's are after all, with a few exceptions, a bunch of know nothings elected on promises and big talk.

Various parties have had other interests or objections, or false fears have been raised (such as invasion of drugs, criminals or just too many foreign workers and Thais will lose their jobs.

Thailand signed the various agreements in 2007 (so its not only PT) and some parts were signed before then.

Agreed.

Most ministries dont yet understand the policy level details and concepts so this is not so easy yet.

Many changes involve cross ministry details. Example the skilled labour changes would allow an ASEAN Engineer to work here in Thailand, but this needs a change to the labour law, a change to immigration (visa) procedures, and even possibly building codes (to allow the ASEAN engineer to sign documents). Services changes also need cross ministry changes. Harmonisation of definitions have cross ministry impacts also.

MP's are needed because of the law changes required, and these mean policy decisions need to be made, which the ministry level people can't or wont do. For example in Services there is a concept that any ASEAN registered company can enter Thailand, but there is a fear that a non-ASEAN owned, but reigistered in ASEAN company tries to come in. Some test needs to be applied to stop this happening. This is called the "Substantive Business Operation" test. What will Thailand use as the test and how will it work on an application form, or in day to day Thai form filling, and how would the Thai ministries verify the test from BKK?

There is still a lot to be done, and it needs significant focus.......

[Robby nz]

Why hasn't this all been already done ?

How long have the PT Govt known about the AEC and the 2015 date ?

Surly it should have been a priority as it is something, as the gent says, that will have a big impact on the country.

All the ministries are still in place and the same, there are supposed to be caretaker ministers, so why cant the individual ministries go ahead and prepare the detailed plans to be forward to a parliament once one is in place ?

In reality what would MP's add to the process except rubber stamping the plans and law changes put forward by those in the ministries who have the real knowledge of what is needed.

MP's are after all, with a few exceptions, a bunch of know nothings elected on promises and big talk.

Various parties have had other interests or objections, or false fears have been raised (such as invasion of drugs, criminals or just too many foreign workers and Thais will lose their jobs.

Thailand signed the various agreements in 2007 (so its not only PT) and some parts were signed before then.

Agreed.

Most ministries dont yet understand the policy level details and concepts so this is not so easy yet.

Many changes involve cross ministry details. Example the skilled labour changes would allow an ASEAN Engineer to work here in Thailand, but this needs a change to the labour law, a change to immigration (visa) procedures, and even possibly building codes (to allow the ASEAN engineer to sign documents). Services changes also need cross ministry changes. Harmonisation of definitions have cross ministry impacts also.

MP's are needed because of the law changes required, and these mean policy decisions need to be made, which the ministry level people can't or wont do. For example in Services there is a concept that any ASEAN registered company can enter Thailand, but there is a fear that a non-ASEAN owned, but reigistered in ASEAN company tries to come in. Some test needs to be applied to stop this happening. This is called the "Substantive Business Operation" test. What will Thailand use as the test and how will it work on an application form, or in day to day Thai form filling, and how would the Thai ministries verify the test from BKK?

There is still a lot to be done, and it needs significant focus.......

There is indeed a lot of work to be done and as I said, "why has it not been done".

As for cross ministries work, surely that is the job of the ministers and not MP's, however when ministers are appointed as some sort of reward for past services rendered, and not for expertise and are changed every 6 months or so then the system breaks down.

Do you really believe that MP's have the knowledge to coordinate anything ?

Go look at the party lists before you answer.

[andid]

Robby,

I understand your point.

My point was that the permanent secretaries and permanent civil servants can't focus on specific areas unless their boss (Minister or MP) tell them to. The Ministry of Commerce manages the AEC but needs the agreement of other ministries to get the work done. The MOC cant set the rules for how the procedures for labour will operate. This needs the agreement of the other MP's to tell their ministries to focus on x instead of y. Even within the MOC, they deal with all FTA's, the Rice Pledge system and so on. They need the Minister of Commerce to allow them to focus on AEC, and at the same time the Minster for Labour also needs to agree to tell the Labour people to focus on AEC. And both of them need to be able to get into their offices - which for a few weeks there, they were unable to do.

[kalbo123]

Think Thailand does not want to join AEC anyway.

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[rickirs]

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Why hasn't this all been already done ?

How long have the PT Govt known about the AEC and the 2015 date ?

Surly it should have been a priority as it is something, as the gent says, that will have a big impact on the country.

All the ministries are still in place and the same, there are supposed to be caretaker ministers, so why cant the individual ministries go ahead and prepare the detailed plans to be forward to a parliament once one is in place ?

In reality what would MP's add to the process except rubber stamping the plans and law changes put forward by those in the ministries who have the real knowledge of what is needed.

MP's are after all, with a few exceptions, a bunch of know nothings elected on promises and big talk.

Anything the interim government has to do seems always unconsitutional. So from October 2013 to now the government rally can't do anything that might affect the new government, if and when it ever gets formed. What a way to not run a country.

[Why ask]

Why hasn't this all been already done ?

How long have the PT Govt known about the AEC and the 2015 date ?

Surly it should have been a priority as it is something, as the gent says, that will have a big impact on the country.

All the ministries are still in place and the same, there are supposed to be caretaker ministers, so why cant the individual ministries go ahead and prepare the detailed plans to be forward to a parliament once one is in place ?

In reality what would MP's add to the process except rubber stamping the plans and law changes put forward by those in the ministries who have the real knowledge of what is needed.

MP's are after all, with a few exceptions, a bunch of know nothings elected on promises and big talk.

Various parties have had other interests or objections, or false fears have been raised (such as invasion of drugs, criminals or just too many foreign workers and Thais will lose their jobs.

Thailand signed the various agreements in 2007 (so its not only PT) and some parts were signed before then.

Agreed.

Most ministries dont yet understand the policy level details and concepts so this is not so easy yet.

Many changes involve cross ministry details. Example the skilled labour changes would allow an ASEAN Engineer to work here in Thailand, but this needs a change to the labour law, a change to immigration (visa) procedures, and even possibly building codes (to allow the ASEAN engineer to sign documents). Services changes also need cross ministry changes. Harmonisation of definitions have cross ministry impacts also.

MP's are needed because of the law changes required, and these mean policy decisions need to be made, which the ministry level people can't or wont do. For example in Services there is a concept that any ASEAN registered company can enter Thailand, but there is a fear that a non-ASEAN owned, but reigistered in ASEAN company tries to come in. Some test needs to be applied to stop this happening. This is called the "Substantive Business Operation" test. What will Thailand use as the test and how will it work on an application form, or in day to day Thai form filling, and how would the Thai ministries verify the test from BKK?

There is still a lot to be done, and it needs significant focus.......

Thailand signed up to ASEAN as far back as 1967. Since then it has led, or directed, a great deal of the interests it set out to gain from.

Certainly in the 1990s advances were made to the AEC, with which Thailand has been considerd to be at the forefront since.

Thailand will be caught on its ass in 2015, when ASEAN kicks off for real, and governments all along the way have done sod all about it. Most of the other 9 member states' youngsters speak English pretty well now. That can't be said for motherland here. It's a bit late to be answering the fair questions you rasied; this should have been dealt with in the early 2000s.

[RubbaJohnny]

In F1 terms when all the ASEAN nations are revving up on the grid waiting for the off in the AEC Grand Prix Thailand will be the one starting from the pit lane.

Do you think they will be that close to ready?

I would have said they would be starting from the garage, still looking for the wheels, given current focus on other things.

don't forget the hubs

[samran]

I wonder how the other ASEAN countries are going at implementing necessary legislative changes.

Not very well either is my guess....but don't let that stop you blokes from going for a good old Thailand bash!

[SamMunich]

clockman wrote:

The european union has not worked! so why should Asean work?

________________________________________________________

In both cases, Eruope as well as ASEAN it is a matter of how much the members will want it. That's all that is to it.

And in addition they expect to gain economically from such a coalition. At least that worked in Europe, somewhat. And now don't come up with Greece or Italy, tehy gained from it for many years, only at some point they have to pay up for past mistakes.

Fact is, that Thailand is far behind in preparation for the common market. The bottom level workforce will come in, unrestricted, from Burma, Laos and Cambodia, the middle to top level will come in from Singapore and Malaysia. And a lot of local expats will have to look for new jobs as well, as the folks from SG and MY are simply cheaper to employ...

[kimamey]

I wonder how the other ASEAN countries are going at implementing necessary legislative changes.

Not very well either is my guess....but don't let that stop you blokes from going for a good old Thailand bash!

I think the thread is about Thailand's preparations so that's why most posts are about Thailand and many aren't bashing.

Of course if you'd rather we just posted on what you guess but don't know we'll see what we can do.

[DrTuner]

AEC is DoA.

[Thai at Heart]

The european union has not worked! so why should Asean work?

For the precise reason that it is NEVER likely to have a unified currency or financial authority, which is precisely why the EU has failed.

[Dogmatix]

Even with a sitting government I never heard of any intention to amend the FBA to allow 70% ownership of service sector businesses to ASEAN companies. There was plenty of time to discuss it. Same with the 6 professions. All one heard was government reassuring doctors and others that they would insist on ASEAN professionals passing exams in Thai, even to treat foreign patients, but they want Thais to have the chance to work in ASEAN countries free from such barriers. The Thai intention has always that it should be a one way street.

[soalbundy]

The european union has not worked! so why should Asean work?

I don't know where you get that from (little Englander?) it has worked and is still in the making.

I doubt if it can work in Asia,too much corruption.

[laocowboy2]

Foot ... gun... shoot. Repeat as necessary.

Apart from the inability the amend laws to make them APEC- compliant (in itself in theory grounds for suspension) the political stand-off is preventing the appointment of key government and semi-government officials. I have been told that the BoI cannot have a new head appointed - which in turn means no large new PRIVATE SECTOR investments can receive the necessary incentives to proceed. It is not just the state infrastructure investment projects that are stalled. Also most senior appointments at state organisations are for fixed three year terms - what happens if the clock stops and there is no government to approve the extension or replacement? Headless EXIM, GHN etc, etc.

Unless this is all sorted by end June, chaos beckons - especially as the budget process takes at least three months to work its way through the snake.

[KIWIBATCH]

Thailand will pull out of ASEAN before 2015

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

"Thailand is losing out and is likely to be left behind or taken over in the competition for foreign investment, technology advances and securing of energy supplies."

This is of no concern, once the amnesty bill passes Thaksin will lead us to the promised land....oops.

I thought it was interesting that the most telling portion of the Joint Chambers statement was left until the very last sentence of The Nation article.

It would seem highly unlikely that the Thai government, even if a real government was in place, can move quickly and decisively enough to enact the many changes that will be required.

And frankly, in their hearts, I'm not really convinced the top leadership wants Thailand to be part of AEC... Much better to remain in their own insulated world where no outsiders, most of the time, get to tell them what they must do.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Robby,

I understand your point.

My point was that the permanent secretaries and permanent civil servants can't focus on specific areas unless their boss (Minister or MP) tell them to. The Ministry of Commerce manages the AEC but needs the agreement of other ministries to get the work done. The MOC cant set the rules for how the procedures for labour will operate. This needs the agreement of the other MP's to tell their ministries to focus on x instead of y. Even within the MOC, they deal with all FTA's, the Rice Pledge system and so on. They need the Minister of Commerce to allow them to focus on AEC, and at the same time the Minster for Labour also needs to agree to tell the Labour people to focus on AEC. And both of them need to be able to get into their offices - which for a few weeks there, they were unable to do.

No problem. Chalerm as Labour Minister can solve all these problems in less than 60 days -- the same as all the other problems he's solved in similar fashion. A good example of why Thailand WON'T make the AEC deadline.

[samran]

"Thailand is losing out and is likely to be left behind or taken over in the competition for foreign investment, technology advances and securing of energy supplies."

This is of no concern, once the amnesty bill passes Thaksin will lead us to the promised land....oops.

I thought it was interesting that the most telling portion of the Joint Chambers statement was left until the very last sentence of The Nation article.

It would seem highly unlikely that the Thai government, even if a real government was in place, can move quickly and decisively enough to enact the many changes that will be required.

And frankly, in their hearts, I'm not really convinced the top leadership wants Thailand to be part of AEC... Much better to remain in their own insulated world where no outsiders, most of the time, get to tell them what they must do.

No country likes giving away sovereignty so I'm not sure why you think this is a peculiarly thai issue. Wars have been fought over scraps of land, do it isn't unusual to find resistance.

We will get to 2015 and all the ASEAN leaders will sit down and give themselves an extension and then call it progress.