Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[negreanu]

even if it did, radar would pick up the pieces falling into the sea. the air France crash over the Atlantic a few years ago was different because there was no radar coverage in the area it went down. here it looks like it was on radar so why no radar track of it going down?

Not necessarily. Depends on Primary radar coverage. and quality and size of parts for radar return. Secondary radar is the system of choice these days.

Edited March 9, 2014 by negreanu

[schbang]

uh oh…..passport control in KL will be shitting bricks this morning...

[sirchai]

Missing MAS flight: Two imposters on board plane

PETALING JAYA: An Italian man, whose name was listed as having boarded the MAS flight MH370 that was reported missing on Saturday, was not on board the plane.

According to reports, someone else had used the passport of Luigi Maraldi to board the plane. He is alive and well in Thailand on a holiday.

Italy’s foreign ministry functionary, who spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed that Maraldi had reported his passport stolen last August.

-- The Nation 2014-03-09

How does it work when your passport is stolen? Wouldn't you be issued with a new one, with a new number and the old one cancelled so therefore if anyone tried to use it, it would then come up invalid. Just asking as I have no understanding of this procedure.

Once a stolen passport was reported to the embassy, they'll decide to report it to Interpol. But too many passengers only allow random checks.

Edited March 9, 2014 by sirchai

[MK1]

Interesting to note so far both MAS and the International media are reluctant to weigh into the possibility that two-imposters boarded the aircraft on false passports alternatively preferring to point fingers at two-oil slicks while circling in a plane. What has been so disappointing with MAS search & rescue plan is that they have been so slow to react which can only be a reflection upon they had no or verry little plan to begin with. Plenty of talk: no action.

Edited March 9, 2014 by MK1

[wprime]

Missing MAS flight: Two imposters on board plane

PETALING JAYA: An Italian man, whose name was listed as having boarded the MAS flight MH370 that was reported missing on Saturday, was not on board the plane.

According to reports, someone else had used the passport of Luigi Maraldi to board the plane. He is alive and well in Thailand on a holiday.

Italy’s foreign ministry functionary, who spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed that Maraldi had reported his passport stolen last August.

-- The Nation 2014-03-09

How does it work when your passport is stolen? Wouldn't you be issued with a new one, with a new number and the old one cancelled so therefore if anyone tried to use it, it would then come up invalid. Just asking as I have no understanding of this procedure.

Once a stolen passport was reported to the embassy, they'll decide to report it to Interpol. But too many passengers only allow random checks.

They keep the passport numbers on Interpol's database and on the flight manifest. They can check everyone in under a second.

[krisb]

uh oh…..passport control in KL will be shitting bricks this morning...

Not to mention if there was a bomb on board, baggage staff should be concerned.

[NeverSure]

Hmmm.... read through the comments here and most people are SURPRISED that this situation was SO SUDDEN with NO WARNING.... usually if there was a problem you'd get one SOS from the pilot or some indication that the plane was in trouble, but here there was NOTHING!

So, was it a catastrophe, or hijacking into a clandestine airstrip somewhere off the coast of Vietnam?! Who knows anything!

My guess is that the plane was destroyed - shot down or blown up - in the air and fell into the ocean. Otherwise we would have heard some warning?

Easy to track if landed somewhere. This thing came apart at 35k feet.

even if it did, radar would pick up the pieces falling into the sea. the air France crash over the Atlantic a few years ago was different because there was no radar coverage in the area it went down. here it looks like it was on radar so why no radar track of it going down?

I don't know. I don't think even long distance radar can see a plane at more than about 200 nautical miles. At least not the kind of radar used by air traffic control. If we're talking about small pieces, the distance should decrease.

Planes and control towers have other means to keep track of each other which are two way communications. I'm thinking like transponders which report position, altitude, speed etc. from the airplane to ground control, distance measuring equipment (DME) on the airplane, and so on.

Even these have limited range, so the plane is "handed off" from one ground center to another as it progresses through the sky.

It was reported that the airliner had just been handed off to Vietnam, but I don't know what capability they had to see the plane without its electronics talking back. That's especially true if it was in pieces and no longer communicating.

There are multiple news stories that say the plane "disappeared" at a given moment and approximate place. That may mean that it stopped "squawking" from its transponder rather than a true loss of radar contact.

[Mosha]

Interesting to note so far both MAS and the International media are reluctant to weigh into the possibility that two-imposters boarded the aircraft on false passports alternatively preferring to point fingers at two-oil slicks while circling in a plane. What has been so disappointing with MAS search & rescue plan is that they have been so slow to react which can only be a reflection upon they had no or verry little plan to begin with. Plenty of talk: no action.

Just saw a news conference and they are starting to pick up on the passports. Another conference in about 2.5 hours.

[Bucko]

How the hell were these two people able to travel on stolen passports--???----

They were reported as stolen--and I would presume were cancelled--But they did--

So if they were " Doctored " somehow--surely that would be false passports ??

It is a worrying prospect if the so -called electronic/chipped document can be falsified

Don't have to be "doctored" beyond possible image change if needed, there is no worldwide list of stolen passports.

Seems there is an Interpol database of stolen/ lost passports but it was not used.

"the Italian one [passport] had been reported stolen and was in Interpol's database,"

"Additionally, no inquiry was made by Malaysia Airlines to determine if any passengers on the flight were traveling on stolen passports, he said. Many airlines do not check the database, he said."

From here: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/08/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane-missing/

Geeze--

I always assumed with todays technology --that any reported stolen passport being presented--would set of a bellow of Bells & Whistles at the check-in counter !!!

RE--- Many airlines do not check the database, he said." I for one would like to know what airlines they are referring to ??

Also --Are'nt we--the travelling public paying fees in our airfare to help pay for Security ??---So at the very least--- All Passport Check-in's and Control's should automatically be linked to this Interpol Database, wherever they are.

May the Lost Souls R.I.P---Condolences to Family and Friends

Edited March 9, 2014 by Bucko

[sirchai]

Missing MAS flight: Two imposters on board plane

PETALING JAYA: An Italian man, whose name was listed as having boarded the MAS flight MH370 that was reported missing on Saturday, was not on board the plane.

According to reports, someone else had used the passport of Luigi Maraldi to board the plane. He is alive and well in Thailand on a holiday.

Italy’s foreign ministry functionary, who spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed that Maraldi had reported his passport stolen last August.

-- The Nation 2014-03-09

How does it work when your passport is stolen? Wouldn't you be issued with a new one, with a new number and the old one cancelled so therefore if anyone tried to use it, it would then come up invalid. Just asking as I have no understanding of this procedure.

Once a stolen passport was reported to the embassy, they'll decide to report it to Interpol. But too many passengers only allow random checks.

They keep the passport numbers on Interpol's database and on the flight manifest. They can check everyone in under a second.

But they obviously didn't And I'd assume other airlines around the world are having the same problems. More passengers, less employees.

[OnTheRun]

Missing MAS flight: Two imposters on board plane

PETALING JAYA: An Italian man, whose name was listed as having boarded the MAS flight MH370 that was reported missing on Saturday, was not on board the plane.

According to reports, someone else had used the passport of Luigi Maraldi to board the plane. He is alive and well in Thailand on a holiday.

Italy’s foreign ministry functionary, who spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed that Maraldi had reported his passport stolen last August.

-- The Nation 2014-03-09

How does it work when your passport is stolen? Wouldn't you be issued with a new one, with a new number and the old one cancelled so therefore if anyone tried to use it, it would then come up invalid. Just asking as I have no understanding of this procedure.

I'm not sure how it works but I had my passport stolen in Phuket around 5 years ago. I reported it to the local police who gave me a police report to take to the UK embassy to get it replaced. I had entered Thailand through BKK, went to Phuket, departed from Phuket to Singapore then returned to Phuket when my passport was stolen. I then received my replacement passport and departed Thailand via BKK, this all occurred over a period of around 35 days. When I attempted to depart BKK they pulled me up for overstay, after describing the sequence of events BKK immigration called their colleagues in Phuket and confirmed I was not on overstay. This indicated to me the various Thai immigration ports were not linked to a central computer. However every time I departed / arrived in Thailand for the next 3 years or so my passport flagged up some kind of warning requiring the immigration official to call a supervisor to ok my passport. (I have 2 UK passports and both of them were flagged). This happened at BKK, Phuket & Hat Yai airports and also the land crossing at Sadao. This only happened in Thailand which suggests to me my name was on a watch list for stolen passports in Thailand but nowhere else.

[phuketrichard]

Search continues for missing Malaysian jet

30 minutes ago update out of Australia.

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/oil-slicks-may-be-from-missing-plane/story-e6frfkui-1226849277144?utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=editorial&net_sub_uid=10796393

[sunshine51]

If the jet plane is confirmed to have crashed in the ocean and if it sinked, in an hour all are already drowned

The pax were most likely dead, long before the plane impacted the water. Sudden decompression at 35,000 feet results in a quick demise. Even if still alive despite oxygen deprivation, the speed at which the plane would be descending would have resulted in severe physical injury such as broken necks and crushed chests such that there would be death in seconds. Fortunately, the lack of air would have put people in a stupor so that they would not be in pain, This was most likely a very quick end for the pax and crew.

+1 Explosive decompression due to sudden structural failure by any means will suck the air out of the lungs and ears, and consciousness might last 10 seconds. That's in addition to all you mentioned. Add to that the extremely low temperature at altitude and the bodies might quickly freeze.

RIP and best wishes to friends and family.

+1 for both neversure & geriatrickid...explosive decompression happens

awfully quick & usually nobody survives.

RIP & Respect to the victims & their families.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Read the news report linked above...

Just a question for aviation folks here. The articles talk about the military spotting two oil slicks in the ocean.

If the plane had exploded and/or disintegrated at cruising altitude in mid air, wouldn't the fuel tanks and fuel in them have been widely dispersed, and not create concentrated oil slicks in the ocean below?

As opposed to an intact plane that crashes into the ocean, and then has its fuel tanks ruptured and fuel released upon impact???

PS -- And so now we have reports of two stolen passports and the two people matching those passports not being on the plane, presumably meaning two other unknown people were. And where did the two different passports from two different people get stolen???? THAILAND!

Edited March 9, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Blackmirage2013]

Unless these two were terrorists who detonated the plane, I wonder how many other flights are filled with people traveling with stolen passports? We just happened to find out about this because a tragedy happened and they audited the passports.

That is even more amazing... crazy....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The passports issue could be the reason the plane crashed, if this was a terrorism incident.

Or, the passports could be entirely unrelated to the crash. But the answer is going to be very interesting....to eventually hear.

FWIW, every time I board an international flight, the ground crew checks my passport usually just prior to boarding and looks at the picture on my passport and then looks at my face. Unless the stolen passports were subsequently altered, presumably whomever was using them had to at least bear some resemblance to the original holders of the two passports... Unless Malaysia Air doesn't or didn't perform that kind of identity check.

[quagmirefg]

Lost or Stolen Passports are recorded somewhere for sure.

I lost a Passport about 10 years ago in Thailand and was questioned about it by Immigration and check-in staff in Thailand and a few other Countries for many years after the fact.

But that does not mean Passport checks happen all the time. I only know that I was questioned a few times in different Countries.

[daoyai]

The 2 with stolen passports (that were interpol listed) had no intention of getting through Chinese immigration... they knew that they would not be landing.

[Scott]

A lot of people look at a passport when you fly, but who is responsible to actually run a check on the passport? The fact that it is entered into a database doesn't mean it's an international database.

Is there anybody that is knowledgeable about passport checks?

Also, we need to keep in mind that people traffickers often use fake passports to move people around.

[harrry]

If it was a non Malasian passport there should be a corresponding entry into Malasia. If the entry was on another passport that would have to have been shown to Immigration control.

[sunshine51]

*Deleted Posts edited out*

Many criticize the US for it's having and the use of it's advanced technology, but at the same time, especially in times of Crisis, people want and need the Technology and Capability that no other government in the world has.

The destroyer has unbelievable abilities to spot submarines or anything unusual in or on the bottom of the ocean. It is a submarine destroyer which can look out at far distances. It can listen with high tech for signals from the ELTs.

The plane, and I read two of them sent from Japan does long distance surveillance even into the water, can become traffic control for all aircraft in the vicinity, and has many other helpful capabilities.

Much of the technology is secret, but if they can help they will.

If the aircraft are P-3C's they can do a great deal of good. If one is an EP-3E...it can work magic.

A close friend of mine was a "back-ender" in both types during the 70's and what he says the

EP-3E can do is most likely beyond many folks belief. Staying aloft for longer than 8-10 hours

on a single "bag of fuel" is just a daily event for those who fly in these things. If Mh370's ELT

is transmitting...the P-3's of either type will find it...exactly where it lays on the ocean floor.

Edited March 9, 2014 by sunshine51

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted. This topic is not Thailand specific. We do not know that Thailand has not offered to help in the search, but Thailand may not have equipment that is closer or better than is already either in place or being offered.

But this topic is in the World News Section, not in the Thai news section, so remarks which are simply a commentary on Thailand and not on the topic will be removed.

Please stay on topic.

[Lite Beer]

Pilot: I established contact with plane

'INTERFERENCE': Pilot in another plane was flying 30 minutes ahead of MH370

SEPANG: A BOEING 777 pilot, who was flying 30 minutes ahead of the missing Malaysia Airlines aircraft, said he established contact with MH370 minutes after he was asked to do so by Vietnamese air traffic control.

The captain, who asked to not be named, said his plane, which was bound for Narita, Japan, was far into Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to relay, using his plane's emergency frequency, to MH370 for the latter to establish its position, as the authorities could not contact the aircraft.
"We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace.
"The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53,) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot.
"There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end.
"That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection," he told the New Sunday Times.


Read more: Pilot: I established contact with plane - General - New Straits Times http://www.nst.com.my/nation/general/pilot-i-established-contact-with-plane-1.503464?cache=03%2F7.247954%2F7.266429%2F7.330034%2F7.425366%2F7.502513%2F7.502513%2F7.502513%2F7.502513%2F7.576448%2F7.576448#ixzz2vQapHIc2

--New Straits Times 2014-03-09

[phuketrichard]

Regarding stolen passports;

this is something they need to check, if Chinese visas were issued to these 2 travelers, as one would assume they would have been detected when they were at the Chinese embassy

Unless they were traveling VIA china to a 3rd destination, then no visa needed,

Many stolen Passports are not used for airplane travel but merely as identification

Reason being they will not pass the immigration check

Lots of questions will be addressed in the next few day

[awakewarrior]

It could be possilbe terrorism as the recent stabbings in a Chinese train station

showed how sick & disturbed these people are. Most of the passengers were Chinese

as well.

Turkistan Islamic Party

Uighurs, a Turkic-speaking Muslim minority from northwestern China’s Xinjiang region

They want independence for the region, which some Uighurs refer to as East Turkestan.

[Tayida]

As i wrote in the other tread in that area a terrorist group called Uliguri was the subject of some terroris attack in the near past.

[coma]

What are the chances of two stolen passports, both stolen at separate times and places, of accidentally turning up on board the same downed aircraft ?

The work of Chinese ethnic separatist groups maybe ? A lot more to come on this story.

[HeijoshinCool]

Missing MAS flight: Two imposters on board plane

PETALING JAYA: An Italian man, whose name was listed as having boarded the MAS flight MH370 that was reported missing on Saturday, was not on board the plane.

According to reports, someone else had used the passport of Luigi Maraldi to board the plane. He is alive and well in Thailand on a holiday.

Italy’s foreign ministry functionary, who spoke on condition of anonymity, confirmed that Maraldi had reported his passport stolen last August.

-- The Nation 2014-03-09

How does it work when your passport is stolen? Wouldn't you be issued with a new one, with a new number and the old one cancelled so therefore if anyone tried to use it, it would then come up invalid. Just asking as I have no understanding of this procedure.

Once a stolen passport was reported to the embassy, they'll decide to report it to Interpol. But too many passengers only allow random checks.

They keep the passport numbers on Interpol's database and on the flight manifest. They can check everyone in under a second.

Yep. They're called computers. Everywhere nowadays, just ask the NSA.

"Gee, folks, with all our surveillance and technology, somehow we didn't catch 'em making their reservations, buying their tickets, or boarding at the gate, but hey, now that we have international media attention, we just happen to notice "stolen" passports …."

Uh-huh.

Shades of 11 September. Next year, one of these passports will undoubtedly wash ashore to boost the government's claim.

Another false flag, killing innocents, including children, to meet the agenda of fear. Evil.

[harrycallahan]

Italian and Austrian passports. The Italian name "Luigi Maraldi" indicates ethnic Italian i.e. European appearance. Austrian is likely Caucasian too. Not the best choices for terrorists of the usual origin, though still wouldn't rule it out.

[sunshine51]

Now this is also interesting due to the location being 180 degrees out of

the flight path....

"UPDATE [8.30am]: Bernama reports the Department of Civil Aviation will extend the search and rescue operation to the Straits of Malacca, Malaysian authorities are now awaiting the latest satellite imagery for any signs of wreckage from flight MH370."

Source...http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-airline-023820132.html