Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[MJP]

Interpol reveals their stolen passport database wasn't checked.

How often does this happen? Should be cross referenced every flight automatically imo, quite shocking and pathetic.

What's the point of even having an interpol database if we don't use them?

Australia has started helping with the search.

Debris found was a door, Malaysia says it's not from the flight.

Well how does a plane this big just dissapear? Usually when a plane this size hit's the water, debris trail stretches for miles does it not?

It took two years to locate that Air France flight that crashed in 2009 I believe.

[Arma]

Don't know if this has been shared already...video on BKK being hotbed for getting fake passports:

http://live.wsj.com/video/thailand-a-hotbed-for-fake-and-stolen-passports-2014-03-09/EB43EEB1-9AD8-49F7-9812-3B94F625BF47.html#!EB43EEB1-9AD8-49F7-9812-3B94F625BF47

[F430murci]

Interpol reveals their stolen passport database wasn't checked.

How often does this happen? Should be cross referenced every flight automatically imo, quite shocking and pathetic.

What's the point of even having an interpol database if we don't use them?

Australia has started helping with the search.

Debris found was a door, Malaysia says it's not from the flight.

Well how does a plane this big just dissapear? Usually when a plane this size hit's the water, debris trail stretches for miles does it not?

It took two years to locate that Air France flight that crashed in 2009 I believe.

They found debris field, luggage, plane parts and bodies immediately after crash. Took two years to locate black box and voice recorders. AF was in tact when hit water though.

Edited March 9, 2014 by F430murci

[slipperylobster]

Could the plane have hit a flock of birds or bats? Its possible is it not?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

About as possible as a herd of flying pigs.

Thats disturbing...

[slipperylobster]

Perhaps a solution for future disappearances ....

Rapid decompression or an exposive noise should trigger an external box containing flight data recordings to eject from the airplane, and immediately turn on (battery), emitting a location signal, time of ejection, elevation, wind direction. It should be small and light enough to decend without creating great damage, and deploy a parachute (when it reaches the lowest possible elevation that a parachute would still be effective).

This device should also contain a video recording of the cockpit...(remote camera).

Another idea....this data could be collected, and the device, as a drone, could detach, emit a signal of distress, and hone in on the nearest airport (eventually being externally controlled)

Far fetched? Maybe. But maybe could get things rolling in the right direction.

[slipperylobster]

<snip>

It is just as unlikely and improbable that a bird struck the windshield of the flight deck causing it to shatter and the two pilots to be sucked out of the airplane.

<snip>

Hahaha...at any rate, sudden decompression of an aircraft does NOT automatically cause all objects (and people) in the plane to be instantly "sucked out"...that's something invented by Hollywood, kids.

Correct. I remember one Aloha Airline incident when I was living in Hawaii. The whole roof came off. I think one or more (including a stewardess) was lost, but I was surprised that, not only could the plane still fly, but the seats and passengers were, for the most part, still strapped down. (without checking details, a few seats were lost). Serious, but not catastrophic.

[wprime]

Perhaps a solution for future disappearances ....

Rapid decompression or an exposive noise should trigger an external box containing flight data recordings to eject from the airplane, and immediately turn on (battery), emitting a location signal, time of ejection, elevation, wind direction. It should be small and light enough to decend without creating great damage, and deploy a parachute (when it reaches the lowest possible elevation that a parachute would still be effective).

This device should also contain a video recording of the cockpit...(remote camera).

Another idea....this data could be collected, and the device, as a drone, could detach, emit a signal of distress, and hone in on the nearest airport (eventually being externally controlled)

Far fetched? Maybe. But maybe could get things rolling in the right direction.

Good idea, parachutes are too unreliable though but it's not difficult to engineer a ball that can survive impact at terminal velocity and in using solid state data storage the internals could survive impact too.

This however could not be achieved with proven technology 5 years ago (they aren't going to use technology which hasn't been proven reliable on a plane) so don't expect this to be introduced any time soon.

[Basil B]

Could the plane have hit a flock of birds or bats? Its possible is it not?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

At 35,000ft,???

[slipperylobster]

Perhaps a solution for future disappearances ....

Rapid decompression or an exposive noise should trigger an external box containing flight data recordings to eject from the airplane, and immediately turn on (battery), emitting a location signal, time of ejection, elevation, wind direction. It should be small and light enough to decend without creating great damage, and deploy a parachute (when it reaches the lowest possible elevation that a parachute would still be effective).

This device should also contain a video recording of the cockpit...(remote camera).

Another idea....this data could be collected, and the device, as a drone, could detach, emit a signal of distress, and hone in on the nearest airport (eventually being externally controlled)

Far fetched? Maybe. But maybe could get things rolling in the right direction.

Good idea, parachutes are too unreliable though but it's not difficult to engineer a ball that can survive impact at terminal velocity and in using solid state data storage the internals could survive impact too.

This however could not be achieved with proven technology 5 years ago (they aren't going to use technology which hasn't been proven reliable on a plane) so don't expect this to be introduced any time soon.

I was also thinking... how much will be spent in man hours, fuel, logistics and investigation. It would certainly be more than development of such a device. Last idea.... make it float!!!

[wisterialane]

Italian and Austrian passports. The Italian name "Luigi Maraldi" indicates ethnic Italian i.e. European appearance. Austrian is likely Caucasian too. Not the best choices for terrorists of the usual origin, though still wouldn't rule it out.

You would be surprised how many Italian and Austrian people have a latin look.

And that might be a very good choice for a terrorist of the usual origin.

And do not forget the thousands of "new" Europeans getting a passport....................

if these passport holders are using fake passports is there anyway someone could identify the real persons. If so, how?

[rhodie]

Italian and Austrian passports. The Italian name "Luigi Maraldi" indicates ethnic Italian i.e. European appearance. Austrian is likely Caucasian too. Not the best choices for terrorists of the usual origin, though still wouldn't rule it out.

You would be surprised how many Italian and Austrian people have a latin look.

And that might be a very good choice for a terrorist of the usual origin.

And do not forget the thousands of "new" Europeans getting a passport....................

if these passport holders are using fake passports is there anyway someone could identify the real persons. If so, how?

They have images of all passengers when exiting through immigration.

[wprime]

Italian and Austrian passports. The Italian name "Luigi Maraldi" indicates ethnic Italian i.e. European appearance. Austrian is likely Caucasian too. Not the best choices for terrorists of the usual origin, though still wouldn't rule it out.

You would be surprised how many Italian and Austrian people have a latin look.

And that might be a very good choice for a terrorist of the usual origin.

And do not forget the thousands of "new" Europeans getting a passport....................

if these passport holders are using fake passports is there anyway someone could identify the real persons. If so, how?

It would be very difficult to have left Malaysia without an entry stamp, secondly there was a risk of passport control checking the Interpol database (especially sans entry stamp).

So either they just transited through Malaysia or they went through passport control with their real passports and a fake boarding pass. Either way it would simply be a matter of comparing who recently came off a plane in Malaysia but didn't go onto another flight or enter Malaysia, and checking who went through passport control but didn't go on a plane.

[Basil B]

There also is the possibility that the pilots turned off their transponders dropped below radar and the plane is now sitting on a runway somewhere being rebranded with all the passengers held as hostages until the plane is on its way to who knows what????

Where, Somalia?

Doubt the plane would have had enough fuel to fly twice the distance it was planed to fly, also they may have switched of the transponders but a bird that size is not going to fly under the radar while over flying Malaysia, Thailand or Burma.

[slipperylobster]

There also is the possibility that the pilots turned off their transponders dropped below radar and the plane is now sitting on a runway somewhere being rebranded with all the passengers held as hostages until the plane is on its way to who knows what????

Where, Somalia?

Doubt the plane would have had enough fuel to fly twice the distance it was planed to fly, also they may have switched of the transponders but a bird that size is not going to fly under the radar while over flying Malaysia, Thailand or Burma.

All those people with cellphones? If they had landed, you would think somebody would get off one message.

[wprime]

There also is the possibility that the pilots turned off their transponders dropped below radar and the plane is now sitting on a runway somewhere being rebranded with all the passengers held as hostages until the plane is on its way to who knows what????

Where, Somalia?

Doubt the plane would have had enough fuel to fly twice the distance it was planed to fly, also they may have switched of the transponders but a bird that size is not going to fly under the radar while over flying Malaysia, Thailand or Burma.

There are plenty places they could go, they had enough fuel to make it to inland Australia.

[slipperylobster]

There also is the possibility that the pilots turned off their transponders dropped below radar and the plane is now sitting on a runway somewhere being rebranded with all the passengers held as hostages until the plane is on its way to who knows what????

Where, Somalia?

Doubt the plane would have had enough fuel to fly twice the distance it was planed to fly, also they may have switched of the transponders but a bird that size is not going to fly under the radar while over flying Malaysia, Thailand or Burma.

There are plenty places they could go, they had enough fuel to make it to inland Australia.

Would not Australia be concerned by the entry of a foreign aircraft without identification, or radio transmissions?

[Basil B]

<snip>

It is just as unlikely and improbable that a bird struck the windshield of the flight deck causing it to shatter and the two pilots to be sucked out of the airplane.

<snip>

Hahaha...at any rate, sudden decompression of an aircraft does NOT automatically cause all objects (and people) in the plane to be instantly "sucked out"...that's something invented by Hollywood, kids.

Correct. I remember one Aloha Airline incident when I was living in Hawaii. The whole roof came off. I think one or more (including a stewardess) was lost, but I was surprised that, not only could the plane still fly, but the seats and passengers were, for the most part, still strapped down. (without checking details, a few seats were lost). Serious, but not catastrophic.

Yes, they lost one Stewardess.

Fortunately it was at a lower altitude 24,000ft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243

[slipperylobster]

Have to rule out a hostage situation by now....lack of food and water would be critical, after this amount of time. Another thing, flying around without fuel, and without radar detection is pretty much impossible. If they had landed anywhere in another foreign country, without radio transmission, it would have to be one that did not care. (Improbable).

Another idea... Usually, a terrorist organization will take responsibility. No word?

Eplosive device..... any reason to blow up a plane (besides insurance policies) and not have anything to gain?

Shot down...? Happened before, did it not...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airliner_shootdown_incidents

Nobody does know, do they... very improbable they landed....we do know that.

[Basil B]

Perhaps a solution for future disappearances ....

Rapid decompression or an exposive noise should trigger an external box containing flight data recordings to eject from the airplane, and immediately turn on (battery), emitting a location signal, time of ejection, elevation, wind direction. It should be small and light enough to decend without creating great damage, and deploy a parachute (when it reaches the lowest possible elevation that a parachute would still be effective).

This device should also contain a video recording of the cockpit...(remote camera).

Another idea....this data could be collected, and the device, as a drone, could detach, emit a signal of distress, and hone in on the nearest airport (eventually being externally controlled)

Far fetched? Maybe. But maybe could get things rolling in the right direction.

With modern electronic memory cards getting so large in capacity these could capture all the data ever needed, being small they could very small units and cost a lot less to make, say a plane was to have four, one in the roof of the cockpit, one in each wing tip and one in the vertical stabilizer as these parts always seem to detach in any crash and survive any fire or seem to float in the event of a crash at sea.

[wprime]

There also is the possibility that the pilots turned off their transponders dropped below radar and the plane is now sitting on a runway somewhere being rebranded with all the passengers held as hostages until the plane is on its way to who knows what????

Where, Somalia?

Doubt the plane would have had enough fuel to fly twice the distance it was planed to fly, also they may have switched of the transponders but a bird that size is not going to fly under the radar while over flying Malaysia, Thailand or Burma.

There are plenty places they could go, they had enough fuel to make it to inland Australia.

Would not Australia be concerned by the entry of a foreign aircraft without identification, or radio transmissions?

Of course, but it's not easy to patrol the entire coastline. My point was however to demonstrate the distance which the plane could travel.

Edited March 9, 2014 by wprime

[Carib]

Some of you should get out a bit more, play less pc-games and avoid Hollywood shiite for a while.

The nonsense some of let sprout from your minds?, as to what could have happened to the aircraft is mindboggling.

[slipperylobster]

Something is not being reported....I gather. Was there anything else in the sky at the time? A collision would have been obvious (as two planes would be missing). Was the use of a long range missile ruled out? That should be an easy check.

[slipperylobster]

Some of you should get out a bit more, play less pc-games and avoid Hollywood shiite for a while.

The nonsense some of let sprout from your minds?, as to what could have happened to the aircraft is mindboggling.

It's 5 am.... I do not get out until I had my coffee and do some reading up, with my coffee. On the way to the Gym at 7am.

[MrWorldwide]

Another idea... Usually, a terrorist organization will take responsibility. No word?

Eplosive device..... any reason to blow up a plane (besides insurance policies) and not have anything to gain?

Nothing to gain ? I guess one might say the same of this attack just a week or two ago:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-07/chinas-annual-congress-quiet-on-deadly-train-station-attack/5307386

Given that the flight was a China Southern codeshare en route to Beijing, and packed with Chinese passengers, the Xinjiang separatists are being touted as suspects by sections of the media. To me, it doesn't make any more sense than travelling to Kunming to stab innocent people, but I'm not a terrorist.

(Oz) ABC TV is claiming that security agencies in the US and China are unhappy with the response they are getting from Malaysian authorities - the obvious concern for the Malaysians being the possibility of a state-owned airline and KLIA opening themselves up to billions of dollars in potential lawsuits from the relatives of the (presumed) victims of any terrorist attack *IF* the failure of passport control at KLIA or any other breach of security (complete removal of the 5 'no shows' baggage from the aircraft) can be shown to have aided and abetted terrorists in their alleged efforts to blow up the plane.

As one pundit commented this morning, if this had happened in the US, Oz or Britain, the media would have the CCTV footage of the two fraudulent passport holders and would have been beaming it into lounge rooms all over the world for several days. He also pointed out that Interpol has slammed the Malaysians for refusing to use their database of stolen and forged passports - apparently it would add to the complexity of processing arriving and departing passengers.

My own take on this is that I believe we can all expect even more intrusive checks at airports in the weeks and months to come. RIP the victims, but flight is still statistically much safer than road travel in any country I know of.

[F430murci]

Where, Somalia?

Doubt the plane would have had enough fuel to fly twice the distance it was planed to fly, also they may have switched of the transponders but a bird that size is not going to fly under the radar while over flying Malaysia, Thailand or Burma.

There are plenty places they could go, they had enough fuel to make it to inland Australia.

Would not Australia be concerned by the entry of a foreign aircraft without identification, or radio transmissions?

Of course, but it's not easy to patrol the entire coastline. My point was however to demonstrate the distance which the plane could travel.

??? So someone is going to sneak in a 777??? And land it where??! And that is supposed to go unnoticed??? You guys really do understand much about tracking aircraft. The only way that thing drops off instantly is became very small pieces instantly.

Edited March 9, 2014 by F430murci

[Carmine6]

Perhaps a solution for future disappearances ....

Rapid decompression or an exposive noise should trigger an external box containing flight data recordings to eject from the airplane, and immediately turn on (battery), emitting a location signal, time of ejection, elevation, wind direction. It should be small and light enough to decend without creating great damage, and deploy a parachute (when it reaches the lowest possible elevation that a parachute would still be effective).

This device should also contain a video recording of the cockpit...(remote camera).

Another idea....this data could be collected, and the device, as a drone, could detach, emit a signal of distress, and hone in on the nearest airport (eventually being externally controlled)

Far fetched? Maybe. But maybe could get things rolling in the right direction.

An easier solution would be to constantly stream this data. Wifi is being rolled out on aircraft, and data, video, and audio can be sent over wifi using off the shelf hardware and software already. With not a huge amount of effort, some kind of system to pull the data, pull the audio, and create video could be put together. I suspect no one would want this sent over wifi, but that shouldn't be an insurmountable problem. There's already data being sent from newer aircraft models. If they limited the data, such as sending every few minutes and not nearly as much information as is available from the black boxes, it should be possible to get reasonably timely and useful information out.

Actually, if they even just rolled out wifi faster on flights, there will probably a lot of information available from passenger instant messages, picture or text posts, or the lack thereof. It wouldn't be location data, and other technical data, but would provide cues in many situations.

[chooka]

Vietnam spots possible plane wreckage

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/10/00/05/malaysia-says-plane-may-have-turned-back

[neverdie]

I hope this situation can be resolved as quickly as possible now. I was watching a news clip this morning with a woman who's husband was on the flight. Young family, he was on his way to work and now she's at home with her 2 young kids and the kids are asking when they can skype with daddy. HEARTBREAKING !

There's literally hundreds, if not thousands of people people sitting around on the edge of their seats ATM, that are directly effected as a close loved one was on the aircraft. Some families have lost more than one significant person. Not knowing, barely bareable. My thoughts and prayers are with all of them. I hope none of them end up reading some of the comments on some of the forums.

It's very emotive, I understand, so many people fly around these days we all feel close to the situation, I hope the people directly effected get some relevant information and fast.

[coma]

Vietnamese searchers have spotted possible aircraft debris after combing the sea

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/10/00/05/malaysia-says-plane-may-have-turned-back

Nooooo, wasn't that reported 15 pages ago and declined 3 pages later and a few more times thereafter ?

Did you bother to read other posts or were you just interested in increasing your post count ?

Well done !

[webfact]

MISSING MAS
Two giant oil slicks spotted off Vietnam
The Star/The Straits Times
Asia News Network


An aerial view of what is believed to be an oil slick taken from a Vietnamese Air Force aircraft in the sea off the Vietnamese coast, about 100km from Ca Mau cape, Vietnam, yesterday.

Ships dispatched to check if oil is from missing Malaysian airline

KUALA LUMPUR: -- Two giant oil slicks spotted off southern Vietnam on Saturday night offered the strongest sign yet that a missing Malaysia Airlines (MAS) plane with 239 passengers and crew had crashed, though six countries involved in a massive search operation in the South China Sea have found no signs of any wreckage.

A Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) plane has spotted oil slicks about 35 kilometres south of the missing MAS flight MH370's last point of contact.

MMEA director-general Datuk Mohammad Amdan Kurish, who joined in the search for the missing plane, said his search team spotted "two or three" patches of oil slick measuring about 15km and were yellowish in colour at about 11am yesterday.

"A ship has been dispatched to the location of the slick to take a samples so we could test whether the oil is from a plane," said Kurish.

Vietnam's civil aviation authorities said the slicks, about 15km in length and discovered about 140km south of Tho Chu island off southern Vietnam, were consistent with the kind that would be left by fuel from a crashed jetliner.

Boats were sent to the area to verify the finding, though no conclusive statement emerged from Vietnam or MAS by press-time.

Singapore sent a C-130 aircraft and offered the use of a submarine vessel with divers on board, which Malaysia has accepted. Vessels from Malaysia, the Philippines, the United States and China are already helping in the search.

The Malaysian government and its national carrier were under intense pressure yesterday to explain how flight MH370, which departed Kuala Lumpur for Beijing with an experienced pilot at the helm and no signs of rough weather, could have gone missing.

Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak would only say the authorities were "looking at all possibilities", and declined to discuss possible causes, including terrorism.

"It is too soon to speculate," he told reporters at Kuala Lumpur International Airport. "We can’t make conclusions, we are investigating all theories."

The plane took off just after midnight Saturday with passengers and crew from 14 countries and Taiwan. It lost radar contact 50 minutes after take-off, and its last communication with Malaysian air traffic control was to acknowledge the transfer of control to Ho Chi Minh City.

Conflicting accounts of the plane's fate, which swung from rumours about a safe landing in south-western China to retracted reports about a crash off southern Vietnam, left anguished family members of the missing passengers and crew torn between despair and hope.

If the jetliner indeed crashed, it would be the worst aviation accident in Southeast Asia, surpassing the death toll recorded in September 1997 when a Garuda Indonesia plane burst into flames on its way from Jakarta to Medan, killing all 234 on board.

China, whose 153 nationals made up the vast majority of passengers on board the MAS flight, called on Malaysia to carry out a "quick and effective search and rescue operation".

Najib said Malaysia had sent 15 aircraft and nine ships to conduct searches yesterday.


-- The Nation 2014-03-10