Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[wprime]

I still believe the pilots got knocked out and lost consciousness ,then the plane just ran out of fuel somewhere in the strait Malacca region.

If it did go down in the Malacca Straits, why hasn't anyone found it? That's a very busy shipping area. I don't see how it's even possible to have gone down there either unless it disintegrated.

With the two co-ordinate positions at 1:24am and 2:40am it traveled about 400km and only descended 1km. While speed loss and descent (to some degree) would be exponential, we're still looking at over 1000km before it hits sea level.

[skippybangkok]

Apparently it flew west for an hour with last primary radar blip off pulau perak ( Google it )

I think the Malaysians are hiding something - or just really really incompetent to let a un identified aircraft ( no transponder ) cross from east to west and no scramble f16

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited March 11, 2014 by skippybangkok

[3NUMBAS]

The misinformation, and conflicting reports, are going to make Malaysian Airlines

and example of how NOT to handle an air disaster... I still think this airplane has

been hijacked ,electronics disabled, and was flown under the radar to an unknown

destination. The United States has spy satellites that can read the serial number of

a dollar bill you are holding. If there was wreckage floating around, they would have

found it.

i agree ,their satelliete imaging could see if theres milk in your coffee or not ......

but that doesnt explain why theyre wasting time and money flying around in circles

"lookin for it " in 2 expensive planes

^^

that was 20 years ago ,now they have satellites so sophisticated they know if a person is wearing womans underwear

[Farma]

I think the Malaysians are hiding something - or just really really incompetent to let a un identified aircraft ( no transponder ) cross from east to west and no scramble f16

It all seems a bit fishy to me too but I doubt if they have jets on Q alert.

[EyesWideOpen]

Apparently it flew west for an hour with last primary radar blip off pulau perak ( Google it )

I think the Malaysians are hiding something - or just really really incompetent to let a un identified aircraft ( no transponder ) cross from east to west and no scramble f16

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Maybe time to start searching airports at Sri Lanka, at it appears the plane is headed west

if these reported radar positions are correct.

[wprime]

Apparently it flew west for an hour with last primary radar blip off pulau perak ( Google it )

I think the Malaysians are hiding something - or just really really incompetent to let a un identified aircraft ( no transponder ) cross from east to west and no scramble f16

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, which is in the Malacca Straits...

[speedtripler]

Apparently it flew west for an hour with last primary radar blip off pulau perak ( Google it )

I think the Malaysians are hiding something - or just really really incompetent to let a un identified aircraft ( no transponder ) cross from east to west and no scramble f16

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

there is already supersonic fighter jets usually in the air 24/7 and given the order they could get close enough to shoot anything down

within about 2 minutes ,not to mention air defence missles (sam) that could be launched from the ground (they travel at mach 5 and are radar guided so there practically zero chance of a miss to a plane this size

if malaysia has shot it down on the way back to k/l they will have a lot of explaining to do to the other 9 countries who are searching

1/4 of the world for a missing plane ............

Edited March 11, 2014 by speedtripler

[F430murci]

They'll find it. No need to get all worked up about conspiracy theories and cover ups.

---------------

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — In an age when people assume that any bit of information is just a click away, the thought that a jetliner could simply disappear over the ocean for more than two days is staggering. But Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 is hardly the first reminder of how big the seas are, and of how agonizing it can be to try to find something lost in them.

It took two years to find the main wreckage of an Air France jet that plunged into the Atlantic Ocean in 2009. Closer to the area between Malaysia and Vietnam where Saturday's flight vanished, it took a week for debris from an Indonesian jet to be spotted in 2007. Today, the mostly intact fuselage still sits on the bottom of the ocean.

"The world is a big place," said Michael Smart, professor of aerospace engineering at the University of Queensland in Australia. "If it happens to come down in the middle of the ocean and it's not near a shipping lane or something, who knows how long it could take them to find?"

http://news.msn.com/world/how-can-jet-disappear-in-the-ocean-its-not-hard

[EyesWideOpen]

They'll find it. No need to get all worked up about conspiracy theories and cover ups.

---------------

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — In an age when people assume that any bit of information is just a click away, the thought that a jetliner could simply disappear over the ocean for more than two days is staggering. But Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 is hardly the first reminder of how big the seas are, and of how agonizing it can be to try to find something lost in them.

It took two years to find the main wreckage of an Air France jet that plunged into the Atlantic Ocean in 2009. Closer to the area between Malaysia and Vietnam where Saturday's flight vanished, it took a week for debris from an Indonesian jet to be spotted in 2007. Today, the mostly intact fuselage still sits on the bottom of the ocean.

"The world is a big place," said Michael Smart, professor of aerospace engineering at the University of Queensland in Australia. "If it happens to come down in the middle of the ocean and it's not near a shipping lane or something, who knows how long it could take them to find?"

http://news.msn.com/world/how-can-jet-disappear-in-the-ocean-its-not-hard

As noted before , wreckage debris of AF447 was found within 5 days, searching an area

infinitely larger than the search area for this plane. Of course in that case the plane stayed

on its course line, so was relatively easy to trace it. And Air France was not misleading

the searchers as to what area the plane was last sighted at.......

[F430murci]

They'll find it. No need to get all worked up about conspiracy theories and cover ups.

---------------

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — In an age when people assume that any bit of information is just a click away, the thought that a jetliner could simply disappear over the ocean for more than two days is staggering. But Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 is hardly the first reminder of how big the seas are, and of how agonizing it can be to try to find something lost in them.

It took two years to find the main wreckage of an Air France jet that plunged into the Atlantic Ocean in 2009. Closer to the area between Malaysia and Vietnam where Saturday's flight vanished, it took a week for debris from an Indonesian jet to be spotted in 2007. Today, the mostly intact fuselage still sits on the bottom of the ocean.

"The world is a big place," said Michael Smart, professor of aerospace engineering at the University of Queensland in Australia. "If it happens to come down in the middle of the ocean and it's not near a shipping lane or something, who knows how long it could take them to find?"

http://news.msn.com/world/how-can-jet-disappear-in-the-ocean-its-not-hard

As noted before , wreckage debris of AF447 was found within 5 days, searching an area

infinitely larger than the search area for this plane. Of course in that case the plane stayed

on its course line, so was relatively easy to trace it. And Air France was not misleading

the searchers as to what area the plane was last sighted at.......

Yep, I have noted several times that bodies and debris were found 5 days after 447 went down . . . The article I quoted says 2 years to find boxes after they knew location of impact. Same nut case type people made all of the cover up, military shot down, France and Brazil cover up and etc. comments about 447. One theory was that 447 crashed into a spy plane. Some said shot down . . . There was even a suggestion of terrorism as 2 names on manifest were similar to known Islamic radicals. Then we had the 10 hour delay to send search team to Tasil Point . . .

Air France not misleading??? I actually think neither Air France nor Airbus was too keen on finding the voice recorder and data logger. Airbus had notice of the pitot issue prior to 447 going down and Air France apparently skimped on paying 320k for a bad Back Up Speed Scale component. Air Bus definitely wanted to blame this one on pilot error.

I don't see anyone misleading anybody about location of 370. I think it is genuinely a mystery right now and they are perhaps a bit embarrassed by not having more information to convey to the public. I view the current responses and tone as embarrassment and bewilderment, not cover up and misdirection . . . I suppose it is fun to come up with cockamania theories and government cover up scandals to some.

Edited March 11, 2014 by F430murci

[EyesWideOpen]

They'll find it. No need to get all worked up about conspiracy theories and cover ups.

---------------

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) — In an age when people assume that any bit of information is just a click away, the thought that a jetliner could simply disappear over the ocean for more than two days is staggering. But Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 is hardly the first reminder of how big the seas are, and of how agonizing it can be to try to find something lost in them.

It took two years to find the main wreckage of an Air France jet that plunged into the Atlantic Ocean in 2009. Closer to the area between Malaysia and Vietnam where Saturday's flight vanished, it took a week for debris from an Indonesian jet to be spotted in 2007. Today, the mostly intact fuselage still sits on the bottom of the ocean.

"The world is a big place," said Michael Smart, professor of aerospace engineering at the University of Queensland in Australia. "If it happens to come down in the middle of the ocean and it's not near a shipping lane or something, who knows how long it could take them to find?"

http://news.msn.com/world/how-can-jet-disappear-in-the-ocean-its-not-hard

As noted before , wreckage debris of AF447 was found within 5 days, searching an area

infinitely larger than the search area for this plane. Of course in that case the plane stayed

on its course line, so was relatively easy to trace it. And Air France was not misleading

the searchers as to what area the plane was last sighted at.......

Yep, I have noted several times that bodies and debris were found 5 days after 447 went down . . . The article I quoted says 2 years to find boxes after they knew location of impact. Same nut case type people made all of the cover up, military shot down, France and Brazil cover up and etc. comments about 447. One theory was that 447 crashed into a spy plane, was shot down, and on and on and on . . . There was even a suggestion of terrorism in there due to 2 names on manifest.

Air France not misleading??? I actually think neither Air France nor Airbus was too keen on finding the voice recorder and data logger. Airbus had notice of the pitot issue prior to 447 going down and Air France apparently skimped on paying 320k for a bad Back Up Speed Scale component. Air Bus definitely wanted to blame this one on pilot error.

I don't see anyone misleading anybody about location of 370. I think it is genuinely a mystery right now and they are perhaps a bit embarrassed by not having more information to convey to the public. I view the current responses and tone as embarrassment and bewilderment, not cover up and misdirection . . . I suppose it is fun to come up with cockamania theories and government cover up scandals to some.

It sure seemed to me that initially Malaysia indicated that the plane lost contact between Malaysia and Vietnam. And in the next couple of days, the search efforts of I believe 10 nations were concentrated there. And then the Malaysian government sheepishly admits that the new area of interest is a completely opposite area, the Malacca Straits, due to a military radar sighting of the plane that was not disclosed. So either there is a cover up going on, or the old fall back, simple incompetence.

Regarding the side topic of AF447, the level of poor piloting skills shown was nothing short of

mind boggling. The pilots were unable to fly the plane using IFR. I would not fly on an Air France flight if they sent me a free box of tickets........ Air Bus indeed dodged a bullet, as the flight recorder

clearly showed the ineptitude of the pilots. However subsequently they changed the design of

the pitot tube speed sensor, and now I believe it drives both autopilots instead of just one...

[Dario]

When I read shortly after the accident in the beginning of this thread that this aircraft had an accident in August 2012 at Shanghai Pudong Airport during which a wing tip and a chunk of the wing was torn off, I asked myself one question: I wonder if that wing was repaired or completely replaced. Because if it was only repaired, it wouldn't be unthinkable that one day this "repair" instead of replacement could lead to an accident.

I just saw over at pprune a post written by member TheShadow which really caught my attention. He talked about this wing and that it was only repaired and not replaced. After I read his post here I now wouldn't rule out that the cause of the accident was the wing which was damaged back in 2012. The more that there was a distress message intercepted by the US Forces in Uthapao where it was noted that the pilot talked about disintegration of the aircraft and a forced landing.

IMHO, fits together like a puzzle. But the question still remains: where did the plane go down?

Edited March 11, 2014 by Dario

[Dario]

Here another interesting post over at pprune from member Evey_Hammond and picked up by barrel_owl:

@Evey_Hammond

I am reading the news you reported:

Quote:

MISSING MH370: Loud noise reported, believed linked to missing plane

MARANG: Eight villagers here lodged police reports today claiming that they had heard a loud noise last Saturday coming from the direction of Pulau Kapas and believed it was linked to the disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight on that day.
All of them, from Kampung Pantai Seberang Marang, made the reports at the Marang district police headquarters at about 10.30 am.

One of them, Alias Salleh, 36, said he and seven fellow villagers were seated on a bench about 400 metres from the Marang beach at 1.20 am when they heard the noise, which sounded like the fan of a jet engine.

"The loud and frightening noise came from the north-east of Pulau Kapas and we ran in that direction to find out the cause. We looked around the Rhu Muda beach but did not see anything unusual," said the lorry driver.

Replying to a question, Alias said they lodged the police report so that it would be of help to the authorities who were trying to locate the missing MAS aircraft.


MAS Flight MH370, carrying 227 passengers and 12 crew, went missing en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing about an hour after taking off from the KL International Airport at 12.41 am Saturday.

It was flying above the South China Sea off Kelantan at that time. It should have landed in Beijing at 6.30 am but has disappeared without a trace.

Another villager, Mohd Yusri Mohd Yusof, 34, said when he heard the strange noise, he thought a tsunami was about to strike.

"My friends and I heard the ringing noise for about two minutes. I decided to lodge the police report after seeing the media reports on the lost flight," he said

Link to full NYT article

The time indicated by this guy perfectly matches the last radar position reported by flightradar24: N 6.38 E 103.46, recorded at 17:21 UTC (01:21 MYT). However, the distance from Marang is 89.315 nm.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Dario

[Noi657]

Hmmm......

[Tywais]

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 was well off-course, military says

The Malaysian military has radar data showing the missing Boeing 777 jetliner changed course and made it to the Malacca Strait, hundreds of kilometres from the last position recorded by civilian authorities, according to a senior military official.

The development injects more mystery into the investigation of the disappearance of Saturday's flight, and raises questions about why the aircraft was not transmitting signals detectable by civilian radar.

Local newspaper Berita Harian quoted Malaysian air force chief Gen. Rodzali Daud as saying radar at a military base had detected the airliner at 2:40 a.m. local time near Pulau Perak at the northern approach to the strait, a busy waterway that separates the western coast of Malaysia and Indonesia's Sumatra island.

"After that, the signal from the plane was lost," he was quoted as saying.

A high-ranking military official involved in the investigation confirmed the report and also said the plane was believed to be flying low. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information.

More here cbcnews world

[Tywais]

Nuclear experts to check if flight MH370 exploded

Lassina Zerbo, executive director of the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty Organisation (CTBTO) told a news conference the organisation used "infrasound" - or infrasonic sensors - to monitor the earth mainly for atmospheric nuclear explosions.

Zerbo said he asked the head of the CTBTO's International Data Center to look at the data "and get back to me".

Zerbo said infrasound would be the best technology to check for an explosion on the missing plane if there was a monitoring station nearby, "or the explosion is at a level or at an amplitude that it could be detected".

"There's a possibility, it's not absolute, that the technology like the Infrazone could be able to detect" an explosion, he said in response to a question.

Acoustic waves with very low frequencies that are inaudible to the human ear are called infrasound, according to the CTBTO's website.

"Infrasound is produced by a variety of natural and man-made sources: exploding volcanoes, earthquakes, meteors, storms and auroras in the natural world; nuclear, mining and large chemical explosions, as well as aircraft and rocket launches in the man-made arena," the CTBTO said.

More here - Stuff.co.nz

[speedtripler]

the military have let everyone search in the wrong place for nearly 4 days before confirming they were tracking it on their radar

500km+ away from when the civilian radar lost contact

this is looking really bad for the malaysians ........

[Richard W]

And if the information is correct and had been know all along, why bother searching in the Gulf of Thailand for two days?

What the military saw was some plane. I don't believe they knew its identity, so it might have been something else. It makes sense to follow both leads.

On top of this, we will now have intelligence analysts trying to work out the capabilities of the Malaysian radars from this snippet of performance data.

[Arma]

Respectfully disagree with many of the posters saying that Malaysians have been searching the wrong area for days. They have been allocating the resources pretty effectively, IMHO. They have the Thai Navy (lets give them some credit) in the upper search sector in the Andaman sea, and the US Navy in the center and southern sectors of the search area. As I mentioned in previous post, they have 2 P3-C Orion planes searching in the Malaccan Straits, combined with the USS Kidd, which , is conducting helicopter searches in the southwest section of the Gulf of Thailand search area, and the USS Pinckney conducting searches in the northeast portion of the search area. I think these are the war horses of the search effort because of their sheer technology capabilities. The communication hasn't been well coordinated, but the efforts are pretty impressive considering no one [apparently] knows what has happened to the plane. Again, just my opinion.

[speedtripler]

And if the information is correct and had been know all along, why bother searching in the Gulf of Thailand for two days?

What the military saw was some plane. I don't believe they knew its identity, so it might have been something else. It makes sense to follow both leads.

On top of this, we will now have intelligence analysts trying to work out the capabilities of the Malaysian radars from this snippet of performance data.

they probably traced it all the way accros malaysia ,if its on a weird or unusual flight path or makes a sudden 90 degree left turn for a few hundred miles that would be highly suspicious by itself ,if they didnt know which plane it was they would have insisted it identify itself

anyway ,all navy ships are equiped with radar anyway so its not as if the oceans are not monitored as well as land so we dont know if this

military radar station was a ship or a fixed land antennae

[F430murci]

And if the information is correct and had been know all along, why bother searching in the Gulf of Thailand for two days?

What the military saw was some plane. I don't believe they knew its identity, so it might have been something else. It makes sense to follow both leads.

On top of this, we will now have intelligence analysts trying to work out the capabilities of the Malaysian radars from this snippet of performance data.

Yep. Perhaps mark COMAIR, autotrack and ignored. Military is not air traffic control. They followed protocol searching zone at last confirmed location, but have they not also been searching in other areas also on the chance the plane changed course and remained in the air undetected for some period of time after last confirmed position? Afraid the alien abduction theory might not hold up here and they may just find the plane eventually . . .

[SurfRider]

.
Woman remembers cockpit fun with missing pilot

A young woman claims she was entertained in the cockpit for an entire flight back in 2011 by the co-pilot who was on board the Malaysian Airlines plane that went missing on Saturday.

(Scroll down a bit for video)

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/03/11/19/08/woman-remembers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot
.

[speedtripler]

.

Woman remembers cockpit fun with missing pilot

A young woman claims she was entertained in the cockpit for an entire flight back in 2011 by the co-pilot who was on board the Malaysian Airlines plane that went missing on Saturday.

(Scroll down a bit for video)

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/03/11/19/08/woman-remembers-cockpit-fun-with-missing-pilot

.

i think the female flight attendants often go in and out to chat with the pilots on many flights

just because there are lockable doors to the cockpit since 9/11 ,doesnt mean they keep them locked at all times

[3NUMBAS]

interesting snippet about cracking in the fuselage....

American transport officials warned of a potential weak spot in Boeing 777s which could lead to the "loss of structural integrity of the aircraft" four months before the disappearance of Malaysia airlines Flight MH370.

The Federal Aviation Administration in Washington drew up an Airworthiness Directive in November. It was triggered by reports of cracking in the fuselage skin underneath a Boeing aircraft's satellite antennae.

In its directive the FAA, which is responsible for supervising the safety of American-made aircraft such as Boeing, told airlines to look out for corrosion under the fuselage skin.

[speedtripler]

interesting snippet about cracking in the fuselage....

American transport officials warned of a potential weak spot in Boeing 777s which could lead to the "loss of structural integrity of the aircraft" four months before the disappearance of Malaysia airlines Flight MH370.

The Federal Aviation Administration in Washington drew up an Airworthiness Directive in November. It was triggered by reports of cracking in the fuselage skin underneath a Boeing aircraft's satellite antennae.

In its directive the FAA, which is responsible for supervising the safety of American-made aircraft such as Boeing, told airlines to look out for corrosion under the fuselage skin.

theyve been flying these planes every day for 19.1 years without a failure before except for 1 pilot error

if the wings are cracked it points to poor preventive maintaince or airlines using old planes that should

been retired or at least have had wings replaced instead of welded or patched over with rivets

arent planes are supposed to be inspected by engineers and boeing anyway ?

[MrWorldwide]

arent planes are supposed to be inspected by engineers and boeing anyway ?

They certainly are, and that's part of the criticism being levelled at the Malaysians - that they are deliberately witholding information from other agencies for fear of multi-billion dollar lawsuits being mounted against their state-owned airline. Throw in the legal issues that Boeing has had over the years and its a minefield - relatives vs MAS vs Boeing in one of those endless cases that only makes one set of people happy - lawyers.

Here in Oz, the media is abuzz with 'news' that I seem to recall was being thrown around as early as Saturday morning - that the plane was hundreds of kilometres off course and that the search should be focussing on the west coast - above Penang. I'm not going to wade through this monster thread, but I'm confident this was mentioned much earlier in the thread - at the end of the day, the important thing is that they find whatever is left of the plane and end this debacle. Arguing over whether they are in the right gridsquare isnt getting relatives any closure - you cant even plan a memorial service when they are still sailing up and down the coasts of Malaysia trying to find a plane which may potentially be in the middle of the Bay of Bengal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Bengal

The largest bay in the world, and much larger than the Gulf of Thailand.

[Richard W]

they probably traced it all the way accros malaysia ,if its on a weird or unusual flight path or makes a sudden 90 degree left turn for a few hundred miles that would be highly suspicious by itself ,if they didnt know which plane it was they would have insisted it identify itself

anyway ,all navy ships are equiped with radar anyway so its not as if the oceans are not monitored as well as land so we dont know if this military radar station was a ship or a fixed land antennae

They would have needed multiple radars to track it from the position of the the last transponder report. The frigate radars (Thales Netherlands (Signaal) DA-08) may not have detection capability beyond 160km, and may be even more limited in what range they can actually measure. (You can find RCS plots of scale-models of 777s on the web.) Edited March 11, 2014 by Richard W

[speedtripler]

they probably traced it all the way accros malaysia ,if its on a weird or unusual flight path or makes a sudden 90 degree left turn for a few hundred miles that would be highly suspicious by itself ,if they didnt know which plane it was they would have insisted it identify itself

anyway ,all navy ships are equiped with radar anyway so its not as if the oceans are not monitored as well as land so we dont know if this military radar station was a ship or a fixed land antennae

They would have needed multiple radars to track it from the position of the the last transponder report. The frigate radars (Thales Netherlands (Signaal) DA-08) may not have detection capability beyond 160km, and may be even more limited in what range they can actually measure. (You can find RCS plots of scale-models of 777s on the web.)

i assume they have more than 1 radar station ,military radar should cover the country ,even if they need an antennae every 160miles

if it didnt it would be a bit useless in a war situation .......

[Mosha]

Re the repairs, my Cargo jockey friend at Cathay read they were carried out by Boeing

[MrWorldwide]

they probably traced it all the way accros malaysia ,if its on a weird or unusual flight path or makes a sudden 90 degree left turn for a few hundred miles that would be highly suspicious by itself ,if they didnt know which plane it was they would have insisted it identify itself

anyway ,all navy ships are equiped with radar anyway so its not as if the oceans are not monitored as well as land so we dont know if this military radar station was a ship or a fixed land antennae

They would have needed multiple radars to track it from the position of the the last transponder report. The frigate radars (Thales Netherlands (Signaal) DA-08) may not have detection capability beyond 160km, and may be even more limited in what range they can actually measure. (You can find RCS plots of scale-models of 777s on the web.)

i assume they have more than 1 radar station ,military radar should cover the country ,even if they need an antennae every 160miles

if it didnt it would be a bit useless in a war situation .......

I think that's why the big boys have satellites and submarines. Just sayin'.