Losing temper with Thai staff

[howerde]

a Thai issue requires a Thai solution, just pretend it never happened.

[thepool]

Maybe you are expecting the Thais to behave , in an employment situation, in the same/similar manner as Westerners ?

They will not ! Thais carry a lot of cultural baggage and their education system is rooted in rote learning even at University level.

What is being invested in developing the Thai employees skills. ?

No investment then no return !

[khunpa]

Maybe you are expecting the Thais to behave , in an employment situation, in the same/similar manner as Westerners ?

They will not ! Thais carry a lot of cultural baggage and their education system is rooted in rote learning even at University level.

What is being invested in developing the Thai employees skills. ?

No investment then no return !

True, but if never told when wrong, they will also never learn anything. That is also why the "Lose Face" concept (and Thais hiding behind that) is a load of BS, because it is actually keeping people from ever learning anything.

Edited March 24, 2014 by khunpa

[Skeetjones]

Yes, today I committed the ultimate sin of losing it with a staff member in front of others. She also happens to be a family member. I know it causes a major loss of face but I didn't expect the following to happen:

I realised I shouldn't have shouted and asked for a quiet chat, partly to apologise and also to explain why I reacted as I did. Not only would she not speak to me, she took a cushion and just held it over her face so we couldn't even see each other!

Anyone else come across a reaction like this?

Your a horrible abusive person. The cushion on the face is the ultimate humiliation

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[thepool]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Maybe you are expecting the Thais to behave , in an employment situation, in the same/similar manner as Westerners ?

They will not ! Thais carry a lot of cultural baggage and their education system is rooted in rote learning even at University level.

What is being invested in developing the Thai employees skills. ?

No investment then no return !

True, but if never told when wrong, they will also never learn anything. That is also why the "Lose Face" concept (and Thais hiding behind that) is a load of BS, because it is actually keeping people from ever learning anything.

Your reply demonstrates exactly why some people have a problem .

Get yourself educated and begin to appreciate the values and complexities of cultural issues.

Enabling people is about more than "telling them" when wrong.

Is the "big boss" always right ?

[Water Buffalo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Maybe you are expecting the Thais to behave , in an employment situation, in the same/similar manner as Westerners ?

They will not ! Thais carry a lot of cultural baggage and their education system is rooted in rote learning even at University level.

What is being invested in developing the Thai employees skills. ?

No investment then no return !

True, but if never told when wrong, they will also never learn anything. That is also why the "Lose Face" concept (and Thais hiding behind that) is a load of BS, because it is actually keeping people from ever learning anything.

Your reply demonstrates exactly why some people have a problem .

Get yourself educated and begin to appreciate the values and complexities of cultural issues.

Enabling people is about more than "telling them" when wrong.

Is the "big boss" always right ?

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with other cultures doing this differently. How arrogant to think they should have to learn anything from us.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Water Buffalo

[benalibina]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Maybe you are expecting the Thais to behave , in an employment situation, in the same/similar manner as Westerners ?

They will not ! Thais carry a lot of cultural baggage and their education system is rooted in rote learning even at University level.

What is being invested in developing the Thai employees skills. ?

No investment then no return !

True, but if never told when wrong, they will also never learn anything. That is also why the "Lose Face" concept (and Thais hiding behind that) is a load of BS, because it is actually keeping people from ever learning anything.

Your reply demonstrates exactly why some people have a problem .

Get yourself educated and begin to appreciate the values and complexities of cultural issues.

Enabling people is about more than "telling them" when wrong.

Is the "big boss" always right ?

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with other cultures doing this differently. How arrogant to think they should have to learn anything from us.

Well...if they want keep their job...in this case....yes. Or must be a 1 way stream.....?

[Beetlejuice]

Thank you for the comments, even the scathing ones.

Of course I know I was wrong but I don't think I will fire myself, not just yet anyway. But I think it has shown me that it is time for a break as this is not normally my style, hence the post.

Regarding whether your loss of temper was justified or not, may I ask how the situation progressed to bring on your outburst?

[eldragon]

Pillow on the face?? Is she 7? Face or not she needs to grow up. In any situation I cannot imagine any of my staff doing this. My wife works for an international company and after doing something stupid she got a blast and she took it on the chin.

Covering the face is a typical Thai gesture and seems to be used in a variety of situations. The other I love is the ducking of the head when they're in the process of doing something slightly or severely impolite. We'll never understand stuff like this, just like they'll never understand the significance of a firm handshake or subtle communication of the nod.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[losworld]

I have been in similar situation. The big issue here in Thailand is the work ethic is very different from the West and the "face" issue gets in the way. For example, I have worked with people who are underperforming, unfortunately they are in support functions and i do not have authority to replace them. So, the consequences of their underperformance (and there are a few) is poor service to our customers (who are mostly Western) and me constantly apologizing for our lack of efficiency.

So, I have got to the point on the odd occasion where I have lost my temper, but in a professional way not lost it completely. By that I mean I have become much more assertive, perhaps raised my voice a little and came straight out with what I was not happy with. This has caused me major problems, firstly because that person does not improve and does not apologize and move on. In fact the reverse happens, they get worse because now they see me as losing face, so they think it's ok to ignore communications form me.

It is a constant spiral of decline and very difficult to get out of, I am still struggling with some people and I am not sure it will ever go away completely.

The way i got around it in the end is to get another Thai onboard and the big boss. i then send requests through to the team copying the big boss on every single one (something i would never do back home). I have also agreed KPI's for replies to enquiries which has been greed by the boss so if they do not perform I simply send a polite email asking when i am likely to receive an answer and others do the work in applying pressure.

in short, there is no easy answer to this. I am western and therefore biased in this but in my opinion the face issue has no place in a professional working environment. People should be able to be straight, hold their hands up when something goes wrong and air their views in the appropriate way when things do not work well. I find that the Thai way of working is much more about dictating and not enough initiative and free thinking. I truly believe it gets in the way of many things and that it creates a perceived tolerance for poor performance.

Good luck with this. Try and get a local person on board who has respect and authority, otherwise it will get out of control and the locals will see it as a free for all, criticizing the "farrang" for anything and everything you do...

It's like they used to say in the Soviet Union "they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work" and it is much like that here. Don't blame the Thais how motivated are you at 10000 baht per month?

[benalibina]

I have been in similar situation. The big issue here in Thailand is the work ethic is very different from the West and the "face" issue gets in the way. For example, I have worked with people who are underperforming, unfortunately they are in support functions and i do not have authority to replace them. So, the consequences of their underperformance (and there are a few) is poor service to our customers (who are mostly Western) and me constantly apologizing for our lack of efficiency.

So, I have got to the point on the odd occasion where I have lost my temper, but in a professional way not lost it completely. By that I mean I have become much more assertive, perhaps raised my voice a little and came straight out with what I was not happy with. This has caused me major problems, firstly because that person does not improve and does not apologize and move on. In fact the reverse happens, they get worse because now they see me as losing face, so they think it's ok to ignore communications form me.

It is a constant spiral of decline and very difficult to get out of, I am still struggling with some people and I am not sure it will ever go away completely.

The way i got around it in the end is to get another Thai onboard and the big boss. i then send requests through to the team copying the big boss on every single one (something i would never do back home). I have also agreed KPI's for replies to enquiries which has been greed by the boss so if they do not perform I simply send a polite email asking when i am likely to receive an answer and others do the work in applying pressure.

in short, there is no easy answer to this. I am western and therefore biased in this but in my opinion the face issue has no place in a professional working environment. People should be able to be straight, hold their hands up when something goes wrong and air their views in the appropriate way when things do not work well. I find that the Thai way of working is much more about dictating and not enough initiative and free thinking. I truly believe it gets in the way of many things and that it creates a perceived tolerance for poor performance.

Good luck with this. Try and get a local person on board who has respect and authority, otherwise it will get out of control and the locals will see it as a free for all, criticizing the "farrang" for anything and everything you do...

It's like they used to say in the Soviet Union "they pretend to pay us and we pretend to work" and it is much like that here. Don't blame the Thais how motivated are you at 10000 baht per month?

Silly last sentence.....halfempty....halvefull would be.....very motivated to work to make sure that i can increase my monthly income asap.

[khunpa]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Maybe you are expecting the Thais to behave , in an employment situation, in the same/similar manner as Westerners ?

They will not ! Thais carry a lot of cultural baggage and their education system is rooted in rote learning even at University level.

What is being invested in developing the Thai employees skills. ?

No investment then no return !

True, but if never told when wrong, they will also never learn anything. That is also why the "Lose Face" concept (and Thais hiding behind that) is a load of BS, because it is actually keeping people from ever learning anything.

Your reply demonstrates exactly why some people have a problem .

Get yourself educated and begin to appreciate the values and complexities of cultural issues.

Enabling people is about more than "telling them" when wrong.

Is the "big boss" always right ?

Well, what is really wrong about Thailand? Is the education system any good? Why do The Elite here send people abroad for education? To me this is about facing facts.

I have had people hired here with university degrees, who I had no idea how they actually made it through pre-school. So since they basically had learnt nothing, then I guess that they must have purchased their degree. Now please tell me why the Elite in this country sends their kids abroad, if everything is so perfect here?

You see, the fact is that I actually like Thailand and Thai-people, but to progress in any way, there needs to be the ability to learn from failures and face these directly. Look at the country right now. It is a mess! And why is that? Because it is perfect? Why are foreigners sent here to run international businesses? Because Thais love culture conflicts or because there is an actual problem with finding a Thai to handle the job? What do you think is the reason?

The problem here is that when people think criticism is only something bad, then there is no questions asked and no progress. Everyone hides behind the "lose face" term and nobody faces the problems and fixes them.

Edited March 24, 2014 by khunpa

[Beetlejuice]

I have been in similar situation. The big issue here in Thailand is the work ethic is very different from the West and the "face" issue gets in the way. For example, I have worked with people who are underperforming, unfortunately they are in support functions and i do not have authority to replace them. So, the consequences of their underperformance (and there are a few) is poor service to our customers (who are mostly Western) and me constantly apologizing for our lack of efficiency.

So, I have got to the point on the odd occasion where I have lost my temper, but in a professional way not lost it completely. By that I mean I have become much more assertive, perhaps raised my voice a little and came straight out with what I was not happy with. This has caused me major problems, firstly because that person does not improve and does not apologize and move on. In fact the reverse happens, they get worse because now they see me as losing face, so they think it's ok to ignore communications form me.

It is a constant spiral of decline and very difficult to get out of, I am still struggling with some people and I am not sure it will ever go away completely.

The way i got around it in the end is to get another Thai onboard and the big boss. i then send requests through to the team copying the big boss on every single one (something i would never do back home). I have also agreed KPI's for replies to enquiries which has been greed by the boss so if they do not perform I simply send a polite email asking when i am likely to receive an answer and others do the work in applying pressure.

in short, there is no easy answer to this. I am western and therefore biased in this but in my opinion the face issue has no place in a professional working environment. People should be able to be straight, hold their hands up when something goes wrong and air their views in the appropriate way when things do not work well. I find that the Thai way of working is much more about dictating and not enough initiative and free thinking. I truly believe it gets in the way of many things and that it creates a perceived tolerance for poor performance.

Good luck with this. Try and get a local person on board who has respect and authority, otherwise it will get out of control and the locals will see it as a free for all, criticizing the "farrang" for anything and everything you do...

I worked as a public relations manager worldwide for 25 years and consider myself as an expert in the field of employer, employee company relations.

It is really down to having an in-depth understand of Thai culture and attitudes that unfortunately many Westerners fail to grasp or take on board or want to take on board.

A lot of Thai culture is based on respect and a part of this is that those of a higher rank or in some sorts of authority are placed into these positions for good reasons and when those of authority dictate the terms they should be obeyed without question. In a way this could be considered according to Western culture as being subservient, but it has it`s benefits in society. For example, these attitudes are often extended into their religious, social and family lives, making closer ties between friendships and family members. Down my way it is considered by the locals as the ultimate sin to question and be disrespectful to one’s parents and family elders.

Thai people have been brought up to deal with problematic matters without causing too much of a hoo haa and without aggression, to get around matters subtlely without erupting into an outright confrontation, and this is why the Thais when faced with the possibility of a confrontation do not cope with aggression very well, they can either try to avoid by going quite or walking away or lose it completely because they have not the experiences of how to handle these situations.

Any Westerner worth his salt who comes to Thailand in the capacity of running a company with Thai employees or as a team working with Thais, should be able adapt and have at least some basic knowledge of the Thai attitudes and really what makes the Thais tick and how to gain positive results and work around these differences with understanding by giving them the benefit of the doubt and not trying to establish the Western ways of thinking and working practices within a Thai working environment. If unable to archive this or the holier than thou attitudes are too prominent, than that Western employer or team worker is simply not up to the job and the same applies regarding any countries where the different cultures and attitudes have to be taken into account.

[khunpa]

Your reply demonstrates exactly why some people have a problem .

Get yourself educated and begin to appreciate the values and complexities of cultural issues.

Enabling people is about more than "telling them" when wrong.

Is the "big boss" always right ?

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with other cultures doing this differently. How arrogant to think they should have to learn anything from us.

Well...if they want keep their job...in this case....yes. Or must be a 1 way stream.....?

Exactly! All people (Farangs and Thais) only learn from doing wrong and being told when doing wrong. If problems are over-looked and ignored because of the risk of someone "losing face" then nothing will ever improve.

Let me give an example:

I send an employee to the bank to update our bank book, since we were waiting for a large customer payment coming in and we needed to pay some important bills the same day. Normally, I do this myself, but that day I just did not have time to do it. Anyway, the employee comes back and says there had been no new transactions. I was busy, so I did not check the bank books myself. Later in the evening I however checked the book and noticed that there had been no actual statement update in the book at all.

I know our bank book has problems with the barcode and that is the reason. So when the book goes in the machine, it says contact the bank staff, since the statement update can not be done, because of the barcode. I phoned the employee in the evening and asked him why he did not tell me this. But he just said, that he had not notice the alert the machine gave him and that there was no statement update in the book itself.

Now what really happened, was that the guy of course did notice the alert since nothing was updated in the book itself. But maybe he felt he would "lose face" by contacting the staff or returning telling me he could not do the update for some reason. So instead he just told a lie to me and pretended the statement update had been done. Result was that we actually had money come in that day, but because the employee did not say anything (and I believed what he said), then we did not manage to get our bills on time.

To be honest, at that time I felt like wanting to kill the employee. Simply because he did just not just tell me the real facts. I know it is a small thing, but that is exactly what makes me frustrated sometimes. Why is it so difficult just to tell the truth, although the truth involves a problem? How can it be better thinking that a lie would in any way help? Although I wanted to scream at this guy, I did not. Because then again, we are back the the "lose face"-thing.

In this country sometimes the ACT of lying or stealing is not related to "losing face"... but being confronted with lying or stealing is. And that is where things are just completely wrong in my head and I will never truly understand that logic behind that. I will accept that is the way it is here sometimes, but I will not myself start lying just to avoid being confronted with a problem.

And if I do steal, I will automatically feel bad while doing the act itself (because of my upbringing) and admit it, if I should get caught and confronted with it. I will never freak out and start chopping someone to pieces with a sword, just because I was confronted with the actual facts and my own wrong doing... Simply because, if I did then it would bring me nowhere and I would not learn from my mistakes.

I somehow believe that the entire "lose face" concept, must have from the beginning been developed for good social reasons. But now it has been turned to become a reason for avoiding problems and getting out of situations that could harm you personally. "Lose Face" has nothing to do with honor. Is just an escape plan from reality and its fantastic to use against foreigners. "Don't say I lied or stole from you... because if you do, then I lose face and will have to kill you!" (What a load of BS!)

I sometimes see Thais treat each other as Shxt and scream and shout at one another. No "losing face' there... But Buddha help a Farang, if he one day should go mad over total incompetence and should raise his voice. Bad bad bad Farang for making Thai person LOSE FACE!!!!

Now some Thais are even beating up monks. Wonder if they "lose face" or thought about that while beating up the poor monk?

Edited March 24, 2014 by khunpa

[Beetlejuice]

Your reply demonstrates exactly why some people have a problem .

Get yourself educated and begin to appreciate the values and complexities of cultural issues.

Enabling people is about more than "telling them" when wrong.

Is the "big boss" always right ?

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with other cultures doing this differently. How arrogant to think they should have to learn anything from us.

Well...if they want keep their job...in this case....yes. Or must be a 1 way stream.....?

Exactly! All people (Farangs and Thais) only learn from doing wrong and being told when doing wrong. If problems are over-looked and ignored because of the risk of someone "losing face" then nothing will ever improve.

Let me give an example:

I send an employee to the bank to update our bank book, since we were waiting for a large customer payment coming in and we needed to pay some important bills the same day. Normally, I do this myself, but that day I just did not have time to do it. Anyway, the employee comes back and says there had been no new transactions. I was busy, so I did not check the bank books myself. Later in the evening I however checked the book and noticed that there had been no actual statement update in the book at all.

I know our bank book has problems with the barcode and that is the reason. So when the book goes in the machine, it says contact the bank staff, since the statement update can not be done, because of the barcode. I phoned the employee in the evening and asked him why he did not tell me this. But he just said, that he had not notice the alert the machine gave him and that there was no statement update in the book itself.

Now what really happened, was that the guy of course did notice the alert since nothing was updated in the book itself. But maybe he felt he would "lose face" by contacting the staff or returning telling me he could not do the update for some reason. So instead he just told a lie to me and pretended the statement update had been done. Result was that we actually had money come in that day, but because the employee did not say anything (and I believed what he said), then we did not manage to get our bills on time.

To be honest, at that time I felt like wanting to kill the employee. Simply because he did just not just tell me the real facts. I know it is a small thing, but that is exactly what makes me frustrated sometimes. Why is it so difficult just to tell the truth, although the truth involves a problem? How can it be better thinking that a lie would in any way help? Although I wanted to scream at this guy, I did not. Because then again, we are back the the "lose face"-thing.

In this country sometimes the ACT of lying or stealing is not related to "losing face"... but being confronted with lying or stealing is. And that is where things are just completely wrong in my head and I will never truly understand that logic behind that. I will accept that is the way it is here sometimes, but I will not myself start lying just to avoid being confronted with a problem.

And if I do steal, I will automatically feel bad while doing the act itself (because of my upbringing) and admit it, if I should get caught and confronted with it. I will never freak out and start chopping someone to pieces with a sword, just because I was confronted with the actual facts and my own wrong doing... Simply because, if I did then it would bring me nowhere and I would not learn from my mistakes.

I somehow believe that the entire "lose face" concept, must have from the beginning been developed for good social reasons. But now it has been turned to become a reason for avoiding problems and getting out of situations that could harm you personally. "Lose Face" has nothing to do with honor. Is just an escape plan from reality and its fantastic to use against foreigners. "Don't say I lied or stole from you... because if you do, then I lose face and will have to kill you!" (What a load of BS!)

I sometimes see Thais treat each other as Shxt and scream and shout at one another. No "losing face' there... But Buddha help a Farang, if he one day should go mad over total incompetence and should raise his voice. Bad bad bad Farang for making Thai person LOSE FACE!!!!

Now some Thais are even beating up monks. Wonder if they "lose face" or thought about that while beating up the poor monk?

The same applies to you as I explained to Gazzpa, who sounds as if he could be your twin brother.

If you already knew that the said bank book had problems with the barcode, than why did you not explain this to the employee before hand and give him instructions what to do if problems did occur?

It is a point of 50/50 here and not entirely the fault of the inexperienced employee, or is this a case of losing face on your part?

Many of these posts are just another load of Thai bashing as an excuse for avoiding the facts that many ex-pats are not able to hack it here and will blame everyone else around them for their own incompetences, non-ability to lose their Western aggression and not being able to understand even the very basics of working in a Thai environment and Thailand as a whole.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[Scottythai]

This is why I would never make it as an office manager. I love offshore. I came from a culture of screaming and carrying on. Here we just do things up front. If you do something wrong you get told right there. No need to yell just a hey why are we trying to do stuff this way. Everyone out here knows there is no face. We work as team and mistakes can cause grievous injury. Sometimes its nice to step back from office politics, and just get out and work with the guys.

[benalibina]

Your reply demonstrates exactly why some people have a problem .

Get yourself educated and begin to appreciate the values and complexities of cultural issues.

Enabling people is about more than "telling them" when wrong.

Is the "big boss" always right ?

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with other cultures doing this differently. How arrogant to think they should have to learn anything from us.

Well...if they want keep their job...in this case....yes. Or must be a 1 way stream.....?

Exactly! All people (Farangs and Thais) only learn from doing wrong and being told when doing wrong. If problems are over-looked and ignored because of the risk of someone "losing face" then nothing will ever improve.

Let me give an example:

I send an employee to the bank to update our bank book, since we were waiting for a large customer payment coming in and we needed to pay some important bills the same day. Normally, I do this myself, but that day I just did not have time to do it. Anyway, the employee comes back and says there had been no new transactions. I was busy, so I did not check the bank books myself. Later in the evening I however checked the book and noticed that there had been no actual statement update in the book at all.

I know our bank book has problems with the barcode and that is the reason. So when the book goes in the machine, it says contact the bank staff, since the statement update can not be done, because of the barcode. I phoned the employee in the evening and asked him why he did not tell me this. But he just said, that he had not notice the alert the machine gave him and that there was no statement update in the book itself.

Now what really happened, was that the guy of course did notice the alert since nothing was updated in the book itself. But maybe he felt he would "lose face" by contacting the staff or returning telling me he could not do the update for some reason. So instead he just told a lie to me and pretended the statement update had been done. Result was that we actually had money come in that day, but because the employee did not say anything (and I believed what he said), then we did not manage to get our bills on time.

To be honest, at that time I felt like wanting to kill the employee. Simply because he did just not just tell me the real facts. I know it is a small thing, but that is exactly what makes me frustrated sometimes. Why is it so difficult just to tell the truth, although the truth involves a problem? How can it be better thinking that a lie would in any way help? Although I wanted to scream at this guy, I did not. Because then again, we are back the the "lose face"-thing.

In this country sometimes the ACT of lying or stealing is not related to "losing face"... but being confronted with lying or stealing is. And that is where things are just completely wrong in my head and I will never truly understand that logic behind that. I will accept that is the way it is here sometimes, but I will not myself start lying just to avoid being confronted with a problem.

And if I do steal, I will automatically feel bad while doing the act itself (because of my upbringing) and admit it, if I should get caught and confronted with it. I will never freak out and start chopping someone to pieces with a sword, just because I was confronted with the actual facts and my own wrong doing... Simply because, if I did then it would bring me nowhere and I would not learn from my mistakes.

I somehow believe that the entire "lose face" concept, must have from the beginning been developed for good social reasons. But now it has been turned to become a reason for avoiding problems and getting out of situations that could harm you personally. "Lose Face" has nothing to do with honor. Is just an escape plan from reality and its fantastic to use against foreigners. "Don't say I lied or stole from you... because if you do, then I lose face and will have to kill you!" (What a load of BS!)

I sometimes see Thais treat each other as Shxt and scream and shout at one another. No "losing face' there... But Buddha help a Farang, if he one day should go mad over total incompetence and should raise his voice. Bad bad bad Farang for making Thai person LOSE FACE!!!!

Now some Thais are even beating up monks. Wonder if they "lose face" or thought about that while beating up the poor monk?

The same applies to you as I explained to Gazzpa, who sounds as if he could be your twin brother.

If you already knew that the said bank book had problems with the barcode, than why did you not explain this to the employee before hand and give him instructions what to do if problems did occur?

It is a point of 50/50 here and not entirely the fault of the inexperienced employee, or is this a case of losing face on your part?

Many of these posts are just another load of Thai bashing as an excuse for avoiding the facts that many ex-pats are not able to hack it here and will blame everyone else around them for their own incompetences, non-ability to lose their Western aggression and not being able to understand even the very basics of working in a Thai environment and Thailand as a whole.

You are on a way a sensible man, by reading some of your posts lately. The monent though that your apologists attitude comes above, you are making yourself look like a fool. You accusing many of bashing the thais is rather childlish and too simple.

My guess is that people post here who have thai staff working for them, dont want problems and that indeed they experience double standards. As they are the foreign employer. U think they want to write about this ? No..they want good staff who does a good and an honest job on day to day basis and compliment them when they do a good job and critisize them when they perform badly.

So please keep away from ur bashing nonsense. Be the better man.

[vtjforyou]

Are we all supposed to be just carpet ?

I shout and would slap them if possible !

[daveAustin]

Khunpa is on the money here.

Avoid apologizing at all costs (especially with others looking on) as you'll lose respect big time and prolong the anguish for the babby. Just smile and carry on as you are. Nursery rules.

[kannot]

Face or no face Id shout if they stuffed up, theyve probably never seen anything like it and need to know the real world!

Next time maybe she can keep the pillow on for a week as punishment, staff get away with murder in Thailand, stay in power and be ruthless or get walked over, am just about to sack my staff for the third time in 6 months, lazy feckless, selfish..........clear off and good riddance.

[h90]

Yes Thais and Thai-Chinese do the family thing, but they have a completely different management style that may well work for them but doesn't mix with farang business culture AT ALL, total chalk and cheese.

Stand by what I wrote above for those trying to do things the western way, which is difficult to do in Thailand without them walking all over you.

I know at least two case where a "hybrid" Thai-Chinese / Farang does work. At least in small family owned companies.

Like keep the technical things, development of new products, QM with the Farang and Farang style and the rest in the Thai-Chinese one.

Maybe it just work because the Farang is accepted at the Chinese as family member?

I guess everything depends largely on the acting person.

Neither Chinese nor Farangs are all the same...

[h90]

If you're trying to be serious about growing a successful business, don't crawl with your apology or you'll lose credibility as the boss, velvet glove's OK, but don't forget the iron fist within, just once in front of all, clear the air and move on.

Only give big-face rewards and smiley-boss treatment to the top performers, make sure you fire the bottom-performing 10-20% every year, just to keep fresh blood incoming and keep those in the middle on their toes.

IMO shouldn't mix family at all in the business, not SO's, nor nookie on the side.

Unless it's just an expensive hobby, then do as you like.

Well it is very common in Chinese-Thai companies to have some family members in key positions. It has advantages and disadvantages. But the main reason is trust. Your sister won't cheat you as accounting lady.

Often in Thailand staff doesn't work together, mob each other, building groups until they have a strong boss who is feared......Not my style but I have seen it......

It is common for all Thais, especially when you make little business, work at home,

and Thai wife will bring cousins, daughter of the sisters, son of the brother of the brother..bla..blaa...

let's say the wife's siblings..to come to work altogether..

and this, you as the boss but only one farang at home.... you looked like the boss but in reality you have no power of boss..

IMO, this is unprofessional and I also had this atmosphere before.

Not more, hectic!!

Well I saw it more often in Chinese Thai companies without Farangs. Some of these companies are extreme powerful.....If I am not wrong companies big like Singha or Red Bull (I am not sure if it is the case in these two companies, just for example) are managed like that.

Of course, what you describe exist as well. In fact the woman is than the real boss and success depends on her management skills.

[kjun12]

Ignore those who criticize you. They obviously have never had to deal with Thais as employees. They are the boneheads who just like to talk too much here and elsewhere.

[stickylies]

do what thai do best: ignore, pretend nothing happened, smile... maimeepanhaa

[MidoriApple]

If you're trying to be serious about growing a successful business, don't crawl with your apology or you'll lose credibility as the boss, velvet glove's OK, but don't forget the iron fist within, just once in front of all, clear the air and move on.

Only give big-face rewards and smiley-boss treatment to the top performers, make sure you fire the bottom-performing 10-20% every year, just to keep fresh blood incoming and keep those in the middle on their toes.

IMO shouldn't mix family at all in the business, not SO's, nor nookie on the side.

Unless it's just an expensive hobby, then do as you like.

Well it is very common in Chinese-Thai companies to have some family members in key positions. It has advantages and disadvantages. But the main reason is trust. Your sister won't cheat you as accounting lady.

Often in Thailand staff doesn't work together, mob each other, building groups until they have a strong boss who is feared......Not my style but I have seen it......

It is common for all Thais, especially when you make little business, work at home,

and Thai wife will bring cousins, daughter of the sisters, son of the brother of the brother..bla..blaa...

let's say the wife's siblings..to come to work altogether..

and this, you as the boss but only one farang at home.... you looked like the boss but in reality you have no power of boss..

IMO, this is unprofessional and I also had this atmosphere before.

Not more, hectic!!

Well I saw it more often in Chinese Thai companies without Farangs. Some of these companies are extreme powerful.....If I am not wrong companies big like Singha or Red Bull (I am not sure if it is the case in these two companies, just for example) are managed like that.

Of course, what you describe exist as well. In fact the woman is than the real boss and success depends on her management skills.

That we call Family-Business, the Thai-Chinese is another kind of complex. Not same as OP's case.

(By the cushion stuff, I considered OP not related to the Th-Chi)

I grew up into this Thai-Chinese, but very small and only family members work in management level.

We have one belief that the 3rd generation cannot get into the Fam-Biz.

I am in that 3rd level, and head-strong member, I am running away to set up my own very tiny biz.

You will have no idea how difficulty I have had myself in my work, and especially I have Farang husband.

I feel I am in the middle of cultural war, no matter what we have to follow the Chinese's rules.

I can accept because did already all my life, but my Farang husband?

Best is running away, set up own life.. and this kind of problem like that OP have had,

I have all the time in my prior concerns, FAMILY NOT ALLOWED IN MY PREMISE.

[SDM0712]

If it's your company run is as you want. If anyone doesn't like it DCM*

SDM

* Don't comeback Monday

[Thaiready]

Public humiliation is unexcusable ! You are the one who should be fired, you took advantage of the family relationship too by treating her that way.

You need to really look at yourself, more than the staff performance, very poor example you have set them.

I agree with the others should have been a private ass chewing.... But....the boss is always right....sometimes stupid can't be fixed and you have to send them packing.....when I paid to build my home and school there was a lot of face lost but not from me....my why or the highway.....when my money is involved its my way Edited March 25, 2014 by Thaiready

[asiamaster]

Best is to come up with an intelligent sarcastic remark and deliver the punch whilst staying as cool as possible...

[thailiketoo]

Well I saw it more often in Chinese Thai companies without Farangs. Some of these companies are extreme powerful.....If I am not wrong companies big like Singha or Red Bull (I am not sure if it is the case in these two companies, just for example) are managed like that.

Of course, what you describe exist as well. In fact the woman is than the real boss and success depends on her management skills.

You wrote, "(I am not sure if it is the case in these two companies, just for example)" Why would you post that? You have no idea if you are right or wrong. You are just starting another anti Thai rumor. Why?

I could say, "the sky is falling. I am not sure if that is the case just for example" Why are you doing chicken little stuff about Thai business?

[geriatrickid]

Yes, today I committed the ultimate sin of losing it with a staff member in front of others. She also happens to be a family member. I know it causes a major loss of face but I didn't expect the following to happen:

I realised I shouldn't have shouted and asked for a quiet chat, partly to apologise and also to explain why I reacted as I did. Not only would she not speak to me, she took a cushion and just held it over her face so we couldn't even see each other!

Anyone else come across a reaction like this?

Your a horrible abusive person. The cushion on the face is the ultimate humiliation

Coming from a 30 year old who admits to physically abusing his girlfriend and living off of his mother, I don't think you are in a position to call the OP a horrible abusive person. I don't believe the OP was humiliated because some childish employee held a cushion to her face. None of the Thais I know would hold a cushion to their face, and they most likely would terminate an employee who did such a thing in their presence. I fully appreciate that one must respect local customs, but it is not customary for anyone with a sense of professionalism to do such a thing. And yes I have lost my temper and dressed down staff previously. Know what, they never stepped out of line again. It's 2014 not 1914. Improper conduct can get people killed. When my friend was out dismantling IEDs in the south, he would tear a strip off people who didn't follow instructions. His life and theirs depended on it. I can't recall him ever telling me the personnel covered their face with a pillow, but he did mention one guy peed in his pants and another one ran home to his mother.