Thousands of Thai anti-government protesters march in Bangkok

[bushwacker]

Now i see the list. Great. Not much there. Should be able to wrap that up in about week.

[Snig27]

has anyone seen a list of the 'reforms' required before elections are 'allowed' ? I mean other than YL leaving the country.

The Democrats have put forward 7 areas of reform, some before, some for after the next election.

1. Tougher anti corruption measures.

2. Reform of the justice system, greater equality under the law.

3. Narrow the income gap, introduction of a property or land tax

4. Reform and update the educational system

5.Decentralisation.

6. Reform of the police force.

I'm sorry, I can't remember number 7.

Gosh, there's some incredible detail in those. And looking online for more I can't find any. I want to reform my financial circumstances too - so I'm just going to say I want to be very rich.

The democrats walked away from the process that would allow them to offer up suggestions and take part in any so called "reform".

Also remind me, which party was in power for several years before PT???

The Democrats don't want "reform" any more than Suthep does - or at least the only reform they want is to step backwards to ensure there are no steps forward for Thailand. They are fronts for the forces of reaction.

[ginjag]

has anyone seen a list of the 'reforms' required before elections are 'allowed' ? I mean other than YL leaving the country.

The Democrats have put forward 7 areas of reform, some before, some for after the next election.

1. Tougher anti corruption measures.

2. Reform of the justice system, greater equality under the law.

3. Narrow the income gap, introduction of a property or land tax

4. Reform and update the educational system

5.Decentralisation.

6. Reform of the police force.

I'm sorry, I can't remember number 7.

7 should be the reform of the military. Anyway the 6 reforms are something Thais talk about for ages including the time when the Dem was the government twice over. Let's see some details as they are so general.

Very sensible, the 7 reforms mentioned how many of these important reforms did Yingluck take on board ????? 3 years and nothing.

Had they concentrated the time on improving things here such as these the country would not be in turmoil.

Problem area most of the PTP time was spent on the amnesty bill to get Thaksin off the hook, with the PMs overseas visits to prevent her from question time/debate on TV and taking care of the rice problem. When you look at the timespan of the government, most things that were created by them have fallen foul.

Please if you answer lets talk about what they could have done if they had the time again, NOT come back with the SU/DEM/YELLOW/ Elections and running a democratic government are two separate items.

So we have a democratically elected government but after being sworn in did NOT run it as promised. IT FAILED. it has to be removed, not given another chance at the ballot box.

[ginjag]

has anyone seen a list of the 'reforms' required before elections are 'allowed' ? I mean other than YL leaving the country.

The Democrats have put forward 7 areas of reform, some before, some for after the next election.

1. Tougher anti corruption measures.

2. Reform of the justice system, greater equality under the law.

3. Narrow the income gap, introduction of a property or land tax

4. Reform and update the educational system

5.Decentralisation.

6. Reform of the police force.

I'm sorry, I can't remember number 7.

Gosh, there's some incredible detail in those. And looking online for more I can't find any. I want to reform my financial circumstances too - so I'm just going to say I want to be very rich.

The democrats walked away from the process that would allow them to offer up suggestions and take part in any so called "reform".

Also remind me, which party was in power for several years before PT???

The Democrats don't want "reform" any more than Suthep does - or at least the only reform they want is to step backwards to ensure there are no steps forward for Thailand. They are fronts for the forces of reaction.

Snig, Your posts make me snigger. one day you will see the light, so in the meantime sit at home with the lights out.

[Snig27]

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Well it's clear that you have nothing better to do than trying to count people on a picture. And now that you showed everybody your amazing skills can you tell me what point you try to make?
Or are you still p*ssid of that the pro goverment demonstraters can not get more than 2000 - 3000 people to show up?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I thought that was obvious.

1) I firstly wanted to see how big the protest was, to gauge if Suthep has backing. No he doesn't.

2) I wanted to them compare that to the claims, 1 million, 3 million?... from this I can show the basic dishonesty of these people.

3) I wanted to describe the basic mob counting techniques, so people have their own tools for estimating, independent of me.

4) I wanted to put the size of the mob in perspective. i.e. Yingluk won 59400 votes per seat on average at 2011 election, hence this group at 14k is 25% of one seat.

I also wanted to point out that in a metro city of 14.5 million people, 14,000 / 14.5 million = 0.097%, all these people are just a hop away from the protest and yet they didn't back Suthep.

99.9% of Bangkok people did not go to that protest.

I'm suggesting that the backers of Suthep had better realize this coup has no future, and they would be ill advised to go through with it.

One more point, and this should be obvious to everyone.

Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests.

Bangkok will be Pheu Thai seats at the next election.

Not in the next election or in your life time Blue nose ..........BUT, maybe ,just maybe. In your Dreams alt=rolleyes.gif width=20 height=20> ..... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

In 2011 it almost matched the Democrats and probably would have easily tipped PT if people were able to vote where they resided rather than in a constituency that could be hundreds of KM away. PT still wins local elections and by-elections in BKK.

Dreams don't really play any part.

[Snig27]

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has anyone seen a list of the 'reforms' required before elections are 'allowed' ? I mean other than YL leaving the country.

The Democrats have put forward 7 areas of reform, some before, some for after the next election.
1. Tougher anti corruption measures.
2. Reform of the justice system, greater equality under the law.
3. Narrow the income gap, introduction of a property or land tax
4. Reform and update the educational system
5.Decentralisation.
6. Reform of the police force.
I'm sorry, I can't remember number 7.

Gosh, there's some incredible detail in those. And looking online for more I can't find any. I want to reform my financial circumstances too - so I'm just going to say I want to be very rich.

The democrats walked away from the process that would allow them to offer up suggestions and take part in any so called "reform".

Also remind me, which party was in power for several years before PT???

The Democrats don't want "reform" any more than Suthep does - or at least the only reform they want is to step backwards to ensure there are no steps forward for Thailand. They are fronts for the forces of reaction.

Snig, Your posts make me snigger. one day you will see the light, so in the meantime sit at home with the lights out.

Gosh, that was profound. Fact free as always with you but you managed to get a cliche in there I see.

[JesseFrank]

Almost 2 hours in since the front marchers took off and there are still hundreds of thousands of marchers still waiting at Lumpini to start marching.

The wife is still waiting to get into the park area let alone start in the procession.

This is going to be the biggest yet.

Nice to hear a bunch of them went to Nontaburi and booted the red terrorist out from the NACC... Lets hope they hold that area till at least Tuesday.

Ahh.. no. Even the incredibly yellow tainted Bangkok Post put the number at max 30k - so 64 million, nine hundred and seventy thousand of Thailand's 65m decided to give it a pass. Your hundreds of thousands seem to have evaporated into the early morning BKK smog. Good try at making things up though, only caught out by cameras and maths.

so 64 million, nine hundred and seventy thousand of Thailand's 65m decided to give it a pass.

The last red shirt rally in Ayuthaya was given a berth by the whole 65 million population as far as I could determine.

[Snig27]

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has anyone seen a list of the 'reforms' required before elections are 'allowed' ? I mean other than YL leaving the country.

The Democrats have put forward 7 areas of reform, some before, some for after the next election.
1. Tougher anti corruption measures.
2. Reform of the justice system, greater equality under the law.
3. Narrow the income gap, introduction of a property or land tax
4. Reform and update the educational system
5.Decentralisation.
6. Reform of the police force.
I'm sorry, I can't remember number 7.

7 should be the reform of the military. Anyway the 6 reforms are something Thais talk about for ages including the time when the Dem was the government twice over. Let's see some details as they are so general.

Very sensible, the 7 reforms mentioned how many of these important reforms did Yingluck take on board ????? 3 years and nothing.

Had they concentrated the time on improving things here such as these the country would not be in turmoil.

Problem area most of the PTP time was spent on the amnesty bill to get Thaksin off the hook, with the PMs overseas visits to prevent her from question time/debate on TV and taking care of the rice problem. When you look at the timespan of the government, most things that were created by them have fallen foul.

Please if you answer lets talk about what they could have done if they had the time again, NOT come back with the SU/DEM/YELLOW/ Elections and running a democratic government are two separate items.

So we have a democratically elected government but after being sworn in did NOT run it as promised. IT FAILED. it has to be removed, not given another chance at the ballot box.

How it works - and yes I know you find this part very, very complex, is that you vote out a government that has failed. The people get to decide who has failed, not you, not the Pattaya Suthep supporters club, not a few thousand whistleblowers, but the people enmass.

Noted: that you find a few sentences with no substance or detail to be "very sensible".

[millwall_fan]

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so how many thousands against 20mln voters, millions, who were prevented from voting and millions intimidated by armed and violent mob?

About 30% of the votes were invalid or no-votes, so how about cutting that nice 20 million figure to size? One might say that less than half of the voters turning up at the ballot might mean they weren't that keen on voting. Elections were held in most provinces, by the way, and if memory serves there was not outstanding violence on election day.

How about having an unobstructed election to decide who the people actually want to govern them and what policies they want them top pursue rather than playing around with figures about who might support whom?

maybe Thai news will have photos from above? bluesky has lots of live images.

Strange how those camera drones have been 'under repair' or otherwise inactive for the past few weeks when they could have shown us how Suthep's protests had dwindled to a few dozen, but no, we were only allowed to see narrow focus footage of his daily musings in front of a few dozen whistle blowing hirelings.

[ginjag]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The Democrats have put forward 7 areas of reform, some before, some for after the next election.

1. Tougher anti corruption measures.

2. Reform of the justice system, greater equality under the law.

3. Narrow the income gap, introduction of a property or land tax

4. Reform and update the educational system

5.Decentralisation.

6. Reform of the police force.

I'm sorry, I can't remember number 7.

Gosh, there's some incredible detail in those. And looking online for more I can't find any. I want to reform my financial circumstances too - so I'm just going to say I want to be very rich.

The democrats walked away from the process that would allow them to offer up suggestions and take part in any so called "reform".

Also remind me, which party was in power for several years before PT???

The Democrats don't want "reform" any more than Suthep does - or at least the only reform they want is to step backwards to ensure there are no steps forward for Thailand. They are fronts for the forces of reaction.

Snig, Your posts make me snigger. one day you will see the light, so in the meantime sit at home with the lights out.

Gosh, that was profound. Fact free as always with you but you managed to get a cliche in there I see.

Fact has been rammed to you a hundred time and you still insist on your stance, give you top marks for stamina. You evidently do not read and answer questions given only a type of pre written script that Yingluck has to use. Same old replies. This government achieved what in 2years + ??? I can never get a straight answer. This is why posters slag you people off with remarks like mine.

[Eric Loh]

has anyone seen a list of the 'reforms' required before elections are 'allowed' ? I mean other than YL leaving the country.

The Democrats have put forward 7 areas of reform, some before, some for after the next election.

1. Tougher anti corruption measures.

2. Reform of the justice system, greater equality under the law.

3. Narrow the income gap, introduction of a property or land tax

4. Reform and update the educational system

5.Decentralisation.

6. Reform of the police force.

I'm sorry, I can't remember number 7.

7 should be the reform of the military. Anyway the 6 reforms are something Thais talk about for ages including the time when the Dem was the government twice over. Let's see some details as they are so general.

Very sensible, the 7 reforms mentioned how many of these important reforms did Yingluck take on board ????? 3 years and nothing.

Had they concentrated the time on improving things here such as these the country would not be in turmoil.

Problem area most of the PTP time was spent on the amnesty bill to get Thaksin off the hook, with the PMs overseas visits to prevent her from question time/debate on TV and taking care of the rice problem. When you look at the timespan of the government, most things that were created by them have fallen foul.

Please if you answer lets talk about what they could have done if they had the time again, NOT come back with the SU/DEM/YELLOW/ Elections and running a democratic government are two separate items.

So we have a democratically elected government but after being sworn in did NOT run it as promised. IT FAILED. it has to be removed, not given another chance at the ballot box.

I do agree with you on some.

Government flawed in concentrating on amnesty and constitution changes - agree

Land reform was in government program. Higher tax for agri land not use. Dem knows that land reform is a bureaucratic mess and long process. Their Sor Kor Por plan was wired in tedious bureaucratic intricacies.

Same as education, income equality (rice scheme was exactly that), justice system overhaul was high on the agenda, decentralization was discussed and corruption is an on going process.

Not trying to defend the government but all these reforms take a long time and need a government to enact the right laws. It mades Suterp idea of reform within a year or so really unrealistic.

[sms747]

has anyone seen a list of the 'reforms' required before elections are 'allowed' ? I mean other than YL leaving the country.

Good question,the only 'reform' I have seen is that they want the shins out and for YL, the elected PM to leave the country. That's not reform it's mob rule. Reforms listed above would take years to complete and some of them are impossible to achieve in Thailand

Edited March 30, 2014 by sms747

[Morch]

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so how many thousands against 20mln voters, millions, who were prevented from voting and millions intimidated by armed and violent mob?

About 30% of the votes were invalid or no-votes, so how about cutting that nice 20 million figure to size? One might say that less than half of the voters turning up at the ballot might mean they weren't that keen on voting. Elections were held in most provinces, by the way, and if memory serves there was not outstanding violence on election day.

How about having an unobstructed election to decide who the people actually want to govern them and what policies they want them top pursue rather than playing around with figures about who might support whom?

Pretty much the point, saying all those who voted "belong" to one side, or all those who didn't vote "prove" a side's agenda, doesn't quite cut it.

Not all the voters supported the government, not all of those who didn't vote are against it, not all were intimidated.

Nothing against elections in my post.

[slapout]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

so how many thousands against 20mln voters, millions, who were prevented from voting and millions intimidated by armed and violent mob?

About 30% of the votes were invalid or no-votes, so how about cutting that nice 20 million figure to size? One might say that less than half of the voters turning up at the ballot might mean they weren't that keen on voting. Elections were held in most provinces, by the way, and if memory serves there was not outstanding violence on election day.

How about having an unobstructed election to decide who the people actually want to govern them and what policies they want them top pursue rather than playing around with figures about who might support whom?

maybe Thai news will have photos from above? bluesky has lots of live images.

Strange how those camera drones have been 'under repair' or otherwise inactive for the past few weeks when they could have shown us how Suthep's protests had dwindled to a few dozen, but no, we were only allowed to see narrow focus footage of his daily musings in front of a few dozen whistle blowing hirelings.

Millwall, If you let your finger do the walking on the various websites, Thai news photos, even those drone shots that seem to come from inactive drones and the dozens you reference seem to have multiplied to dozens times 1000. But lets not screw up a good BS attempt. Debate, requires all involved to listen to facts presented, answer to those not some imagined or desired wish list.

I have no idea how many individuals were involved in yesterdays anti government protest march but your figures seem a tad decitful, if not outright false.Just my opinion after reviewing some of the many photos posted, as well as the Labor Ministers assurances, on Friday, that there would be no more than 30,000 involved.

[catmac]

WOW just saw an Aerial shot of the crowds.

This has got to be the biggest yet.

I would say it is the millions... Of course CAPO and the police will announce 60,000 as they always seem to do, to feed out propaganda to the buffs in the north.

Whatever it is you're smoking, I suggest you give it a rest! An impressive turn-out it may be, but to say that it is in the millions merely shows that your lust for propaganda has got the better of the truth.

Unlike you, I will not scream that you are a liar, just so biased that you wouldn't see the truth if it bit you!

[Fat Haggis]

One of the reforms is education, and that's a pretty good foundation, but some people need to educate themselves and stop being derogatory towards the people who are not PTP/UDD nutters, but regular farmers and workers, stop with the looking down on them, especially the likes of Chitpas (she'd get my vote just for being eye candy) need to stop ridiculing those very people who need to be convinced that these reforms are for their benefit.

The same goes to the anti government supporters here, when you do your best to belittle a section of the community with your snidey comments, is it any wonder that these people don't feel anything less than hostile towards them? It's arrogance, I'f I was a Thai, I'd be all for the reforms, but I'd still like to be able to vote first, many many people here give me tonnes of grief over my views, well that's their prerogative, and I respect their views, but what you should be doing is educating me to the point where my opinions and stance change and I see the good in all that you're saying, convince me that reforms are essential before anything, and if that works, then you have to do the same to the rest of the country. You need to convince the Thai people who for generations have followed the head man of their village, you're wanting to take away a part of their culture by removing his power of his villagers... Good luck with that.

As long as this keeps going on and Suthep remains on the streets, and prevents the people who want to vote, then progress will never be made.And the suffering of the people of Thailand will continue..

Educate yourselves and a major part of winning over a majority is showing them respect, and earn their trust.. if you constantly ridicule them, and call them stupid, and ignorant and dumb, it's not these people who need educating, it's the ones calling them as such!!

[northernjohn]

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I think your wife may be seeing her other husband today, traffic is now flowing freely at Lumpini, there are groups of protesters still on the road but they are wandering aimlessly.

Well she must be seeing him at the protests because I could hardly hear hear on the phone for whistles and crowd sounds.

Also being reported in the Nation.

Several groups yet to start marching, so unless you have proof that you are there, I suggest you post a picture for us.

Until you do that.... You are a liar.

i love the "Too Stupid to Vote" argument. They always set the IQ bar a couple of points below thier own level.

These are more civilized and orderly than Red Shirt. It shows the level of education. for my money I rather the educated people make decisions than uneducated at anytime

so how many thousands against 20mln voters, millions, who were prevented from voting and millions intimidated by armed and violent mob?

Considering your earlier post one might say it is above your level.

[JesseFrank]

I do agree with you on some.

Government flawed in concentrating on amnesty and constitution changes - agree

Land reform was in government program. Higher tax for agri land not use. Dem knows that land reform is a bureaucratic mess and long process. Their Sor Kor Por plan was wired in tedious bureaucratic intricacies.

Same as education, income equality (rice scheme was exactly that), justice system overhaul was high on the agenda, decentralization was discussed and corruption is an on going process.

Not trying to defend the government but all these reforms take a long time and need a government to enact the right laws. It mades Suterp idea of reform within a year or so really unrealistic.

justice system overhaul was high on the agenda, decentralization was discussed

You mean like whitewashing Thaksin of all his crimes? And decentralization is not the same as separatism.

corruption is an on going process.

There are no doubts about that, in fact it has reached unprecedented levels.

[Old Man River]

Suthep expresses belief more than one million demonstrators join rally

BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, expressed his belief Saturday that more than one million people have come out or will later join the mass rally.

He was speaking on Blue Sky Channel at 10:30 am while leading the march.

-- The Nation 2014-03-29

Yeh, well, before the protest Chalerm said 30,000 without knowing. During it, the BBC said thousands, hedging themselves because they didn't know. People I know who were there said, in the afternoon when they were trying to leave (Senate election the next day), they had trouble leaving because more were pouring in.

The bottom line is nobody knows and anyone who says differently is blowing smoke.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[northernjohn]

He said, they said, we want, they want.

The only way in which to truly gauge the voice of the people is to hold a referendum on reforms before an elections with a straight forward two boxes YES or NO

And then another question "peoples council" to lead reforms with the same two boxes YES or NO.. The PDRC can then run a YES/YES campaign and allow the referendum to run impeded, if they get the majority, then exit stage left for Yingluck, and the PTP and they can run off and rethink a strategy that will allow them to challenge for when the elections are announced post reformation.

There should be a 12 month cap on these reforms, and if nothing has been agreed across all parties, then the Military take control for another 6 month period, Reforms are much needed, but the time frame has to be short and swift, to allow any thoughts about the peoples council never relinquishing their power, which is no doubt what some people fear. Most Thais just want to get on with their daily lives, they should be able to do so.

I disagree many of the people are really and truly are unaware of what is going on. The PTP red shirts have made it such a campaign to look like Suthep is trying to seize the power himself that they are unaware of the reality of his seeking honest reforms before an election. They have done such a good job of it that even some supposedly educated farongs believe that is what it is all about.

The PTP along with their militant arm have been straight out lying trying to get people to think Suthep does not want elections any more just appointed P M's and their cabinets. Also that he is the one he wants appointed.

[brewsterbudgen]

One of the reforms is education, and that's a pretty good foundation, but some people need to educate themselves and stop being derogatory towards the people who are not PTP/UDD nutters, but regular farmers and workers, stop with the looking down on them, especially the likes of Chitpas (she'd get my vote just for being eye candy) need to stop ridiculing those very people who need to be convinced that these reforms are for their benefit.

The same goes to the anti government supporters here, when you do your best to belittle a section of the community with your snidey comments, is it any wonder that these people don't feel anything less than hostile towards them? It's arrogance, I'f I was a Thai, I'd be all for the reforms, but I'd still like to be able to vote first, many many people here give me tonnes of grief over my views, well that's their prerogative, and I respect their views, but what you should be doing is educating me to the point where my opinions and stance change and I see the good in all that you're saying, convince me that reforms are essential before anything, and if that works, then you have to do the same to the rest of the country. You need to convince the Thai people who for generations have followed the head man of their village, you're wanting to take away a part of their culture by removing his power of his villagers... Good luck with that.

As long as this keeps going on and Suthep remains on the streets, and prevents the people who want to vote, then progress will never be made.And the suffering of the people of Thailand will continue..

Educate yourselves and a major part of winning over a majority is showing them respect, and earn their trust.. if you constantly ridicule them, and call them stupid, and ignorant and dumb, it's not these people who need educating, it's the ones calling them as such!!

Great post. Should be required reading for the many blinkered protest supporters, but regretably will be ignored or not understood!

[GeckosDiving]

So another protest march. It is immaterial how many turn out. Those who turn out only represent themselves and not necessarily a larger body.. What counts is election results. If Suthep is so confident at his turnout he should be welcoming elections. He claims to want reforms before elections. Exactly what are they? It would sure make things a lot more clear and show how will his reforms help his constituency and deny the PTP its representation. What the PTP should be doing is demanding him to outline his reforms. Bottom line is still the fact that without amending the constitution there is still one vote per person. How is he to get around that. Whether the PTP wins or the democrats win it all boils down to winning over voters. Street demonstrations only show how afraid the democrats are of having an election. I personally don't care who wins as neither side will conduct itself without corruption. However, that being said, I am not for mobs dictating political outcomes. That is not democracy.

have you been sleeping over the winter ?

I'll give you an update of what the majority of Thai people want in 4 easy steps

Thakisns PTP Gone - Reforms - referendum - Election

In that order

That's exactly how it has to happen !!

As long as the Camel Dung and his clan are still running this country it will stay on the path of Total DESTRUCTION !!

Farmers will continue to die !!

Children will continue to be killed !!

Monks will continue to be beating up !!

Grenades attacks will continue !!

Buildings will continue to be burnt down !!

Thuggery,Intimidation on Judges and on the Innocent public will continue !!

Rice shams, Flood shams with money from these and many many more will continuously to Disappear in Large Amounts with No Accountability !!

etc,etc,etc ......

Now I'm not saying Suthep is the answer either !! I mean he's had his hand in the cookie jar as well and stole some cookies But Not The Whole Cookie Factory !!!!! like the Red Shirts have !!

But change has to come for the better of Thailand and at least he sees this and is trying to do SOMETHING ABOUT IT !!

Now I know all you Red Shirt Flag Waving minions will say then win an election !!

Well if Reforms went through to at least to stop things like Criminals can't run for any public office ever !! Vote buying if caught charged and jailed(and after never allow to run for any public office again)

Just on these two reforms that would end the Camel Jockey and his clan from ever holding any public office's ever again !! and that go's for people on both sides which would be a good thing

and don't ever ever ever allow another puppet as a PM !!! How this was ever allowed to happen is a complete joke as it is !!!!

REFORMS have to happen !! Other wise Governments like this one will continuously DESTROY this Country !!

I want something anything for the better to happen for my children then whats happening to their country NOW !!!!

[northernjohn]

Suthep expresses belief more than one million demonstrators join rally

BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, expressed his belief Saturday that more than one million people have come out or will later join the mass rally.

He was speaking on Blue Sky Channel at 10:30 am while leading the march.

-- The Nation 2014-03-29

Yeh, well, before the protest Chalerm said 30,000 without knowing. During it, the BBC said thousands, hedging themselves because they didn't know. People I know who were there said, in the afternoon when they were trying to leave (Senate election the next day), they had trouble leaving because more were pouring in.

The bottom line is nobody knows and anyone who says differently is blowing smoke.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Well it would be hard to give the exact number but I think there are ways tio come close to the actual numbers. I think the 30,000 figure and the 1,000,000 figures are just people blowing smoke. It would be nice to get a sensible estimate on the size of the crowd. From the pictures it looked pretty massive the one had the street just crowded from side to side and as far as you could see with no break in it. I was under the impression that they were going to use 6 different routes so there would have to be an incredible amount of people.

One poster was saying that his wife was having a hard time to get into the park with all the people there who were waiting their turn to start marching. As a previous poster said given the heat and the distance it was simply amazing the support the they are getting. Not exactly a day for a long hike in a crowd. Just goes to show how much the people believe in reform and how useless an election with out some reform would be. There quite naturally would need a legislature for some of the reform but they could reform the election procedures and make crystal clear the ones requiring reform by the legislature to the people when they vote.

This would require a real beneficial platform for the voters to vote on. Not the pie in the sky that the uneducated ones will naturally go for. Unfortunately it would leave a lot of people confused. All there intellect is capable of grasping is statements like Thaksin made when he said give me six months and I will make you all rich. They are incapable of realizing he did not make them rich and he has had over 2 and 1/2 years to do it. In fact some of them are even poorer and resorting to suicide as a way out. Most of them have found there household debt has risen. Kind of nullifies the raise in minimum wages when it puts you in more debt than you had before it.

[Fat Haggis]

He said, they said, we want, they want.

The only way in which to truly gauge the voice of the people is to hold a referendum on reforms before an elections with a straight forward two boxes YES or NO

And then another question "peoples council" to lead reforms with the same two boxes YES or NO.. The PDRC can then run a YES/YES campaign and allow the referendum to run impeded, if they get the majority, then exit stage left for Yingluck, and the PTP and they can run off and rethink a strategy that will allow them to challenge for when the elections are announced post reformation.

There should be a 12 month cap on these reforms, and if nothing has been agreed across all parties, then the Military take control for another 6 month period, Reforms are much needed, but the time frame has to be short and swift, to allow any thoughts about the peoples council never relinquishing their power, which is no doubt what some people fear. Most Thais just want to get on with their daily lives, they should be able to do so.

I disagree many of the people are really and truly are unaware of what is going on. The PTP red shirts have made it such a campaign to look like Suthep is trying to seize the power himself that they are unaware of the reality of his seeking honest reforms before an election. They have done such a good job of it that even some supposedly educated farongs believe that is what it is all about.

The PTP along with their militant arm have been straight out lying trying to get people to think Suthep does not want elections any more just appointed P M's and their cabinets. Also that he is the one he wants appointed.

There's no doubt that there's been some manipulation, but what are you basing your statement off? Personal experience within your village or something else? The villagers where I stay were more interested in The ladies International volleyball team.. I have asked why they support Thaksins Red parties, which to be quite honest is a very personal question, and is really none of my business, being a farang and all that, but they said we know he is a bad man, and he stole money from Buddha but they didn't like the alternatives.. In the weeks I was there, I never seen any people turn up and speak to the villagers en-masse, nobody came to the home either.. I think you might also find John is that many small villagers are actually oblivious to what's going on in Bangkok too.

In all the homes I visited, I never saw a single picture of Thaksin, none of the family have pictures either, and not one was glued to propaganda tv channels either in my times of visit, not to say they don't watch them but most were watching stupid soaps and sports..

Now, isn't it the usual thing for political parties to demonise the opposition? Look at the dirty tricks campaigns that happen within the UK, allegations and counter allegations, mud slinging and out and out hatred for each other, same within the US and it's probably the same all over the EU, isn't it the normal thing to do than to twist everything around to suit YOUR agenda? That's not a PTP/UDD thing, that's normal run of the mill politics.

Vote buying, it's a red herring, if candidate A states he will reduce income tax by 5% when he's in power, and candidate B says he will increase Income tax by 5% to give more money towards the education budget, which one is more appealing to the working man.woman? .. that's vote buying too. Vote buying is just a buzz word for an "incentive to vote for person X"

But you still don't address my point is that education of the masses has to start with how ones self presents himself to others, calling everyone in the North and East thick, stupid Buffalos, who are ignorant dumb and too stupid to vote, when you're trying to get their votes isn't exactly a way to go about things is it??

[northernjohn]

One of the reforms is education, and that's a pretty good foundation, but some people need to educate themselves and stop being derogatory towards the people who are not PTP/UDD nutters, but regular farmers and workers, stop with the looking down on them, especially the likes of Chitpas (she'd get my vote just for being eye candy) need to stop ridiculing those very people who need to be convinced that these reforms are for their benefit.

The same goes to the anti government supporters here, when you do your best to belittle a section of the community with your snidey comments, is it any wonder that these people don't feel anything less than hostile towards them? It's arrogance, I'f I was a Thai, I'd be all for the reforms, but I'd still like to be able to vote first, many many people here give me tonnes of grief over my views, well that's their prerogative, and I respect their views, but what you should be doing is educating me to the point where my opinions and stance change and I see the good in all that you're saying, convince me that reforms are essential before anything, and if that works, then you have to do the same to the rest of the country. You need to convince the Thai people who for generations have followed the head man of their village, you're wanting to take away a part of their culture by removing his power of his villagers... Good luck with that.

As long as this keeps going on and Suthep remains on the streets, and prevents the people who want to vote, then progress will never be made.And the suffering of the people of Thailand will continue..

Educate yourselves and a major part of winning over a majority is showing them respect, and earn their trust.. if you constantly ridicule them, and call them stupid, and ignorant and dumb, it's not these people who need educating, it's the ones calling them as such!!

Great post. Should be required reading for the many blinkered protest supporters, but regretably will be ignored or not understood!

I understood it perfectly. He does not understand that with out some reforms before the election the existing conditions will continue. It was just a long winded plea for no change.

[Roadman]

One of the reforms is education, and that's a pretty good foundation, but some people need to educate themselves and stop being derogatory towards the people who are not PTP/UDD nutters, but regular farmers and workers, stop with the looking down on them, especially the likes of Chitpas (she'd get my vote just for being eye candy) need to stop ridiculing those very people who need to be convinced that these reforms are for their benefit.

The same goes to the anti government supporters here, when you do your best to belittle a section of the community with your snidey comments, is it any wonder that these people don't feel anything less than hostile towards them? It's arrogance, I'f I was a Thai, I'd be all for the reforms, but I'd still like to be able to vote first, many many people here give me tonnes of grief over my views, well that's their prerogative, and I respect their views, but what you should be doing is educating me to the point where my opinions and stance change and I see the good in all that you're saying, convince me that reforms are essential before anything, and if that works, then you have to do the same to the rest of the country. You need to convince the Thai people who for generations have followed the head man of their village, you're wanting to take away a part of their culture by removing his power of his villagers... Good luck with that.

As long as this keeps going on and Suthep remains on the streets, and prevents the people who want to vote, then progress will never be made.And the suffering of the people of Thailand will continue..

Educate yourselves and a major part of winning over a majority is showing them respect, and earn their trust.. if you constantly ridicule them, and call them stupid, and ignorant and dumb, it's not these people who need educating, it's the ones calling them as such!!

Pleased you picked education which is one of top area's that needs reform. Why because Thai children are not encouraged to think creatively let alone free think? Or is because under this present puppet Thaksin soi dogs circus there have been 4 count the Thaksin fed pig snouts in the trough for the term of these ...jeez bloody Christ...it is not even three years, and there have been four of them as Education Minister...4 in 3 f...ing years and you people find this acceptable...let's have an election....listen carefully....Thai politicial governance is not only legally corrupt but also morally and ethically corrupt....if I was Thai I would be ashamed of what Thailand has become. Education...bloody good choice you made. Edited March 30, 2014 by Roadman

[northernjohn]

He said, they said, we want, they want.

The only way in which to truly gauge the voice of the people is to hold a referendum on reforms before an elections with a straight forward two boxes YES or NO

And then another question "peoples council" to lead reforms with the same two boxes YES or NO.. The PDRC can then run a YES/YES campaign and allow the referendum to run impeded, if they get the majority, then exit stage left for Yingluck, and the PTP and they can run off and rethink a strategy that will allow them to challenge for when the elections are announced post reformation.

There should be a 12 month cap on these reforms, and if nothing has been agreed across all parties, then the Military take control for another 6 month period, Reforms are much needed, but the time frame has to be short and swift, to allow any thoughts about the peoples council never relinquishing their power, which is no doubt what some people fear. Most Thais just want to get on with their daily lives, they should be able to do so.

I disagree many of the people are really and truly are unaware of what is going on. The PTP red shirts have made it such a campaign to look like Suthep is trying to seize the power himself that they are unaware of the reality of his seeking honest reforms before an election. They have done such a good job of it that even some supposedly educated farongs believe that is what it is all about.

The PTP along with their militant arm have been straight out lying trying to get people to think Suthep does not want elections any more just appointed P M's and their cabinets. Also that he is the one he wants appointed.

There's no doubt that there's been some manipulation, but what are you basing your statement off? Personal experience within your village or something else? The villagers where I stay were more interested in The ladies International volleyball team.. I have asked why they support Thaksins Red parties, which to be quite honest is a very personal question, and is really none of my business, being a farang and all that, but they said we know he is a bad man, and he stole money from Buddha but they didn't like the alternatives.. In the weeks I was there, I never seen any people turn up and speak to the villagers en-masse, nobody came to the home either.. I think you might also find John is that many small villagers are actually oblivious to what's going on in Bangkok too.

In all the homes I visited, I never saw a single picture of Thaksin, none of the family have pictures either, and not one was glued to propaganda tv channels either in my times of visit, not to say they don't watch them but most were watching stupid soaps and sports..

Now, isn't it the usual thing for political parties to demonise the opposition? Look at the dirty tricks campaigns that happen within the UK, allegations and counter allegations, mud slinging and out and out hatred for each other, same within the US and it's probably the same all over the EU, isn't it the normal thing to do than to twist everything around to suit YOUR agenda? That's not a PTP/UDD thing, that's normal run of the mill politics.

Vote buying, it's a red herring, if candidate A states he will reduce income tax by 5% when he's in power, and candidate B says he will increase Income tax by 5% to give more money towards the education budget, which one is more appealing to the working man.woman? .. that's vote buying too. Vote buying is just a buzz word for an "incentive to vote for person X"

But you still don't address my point is that education of the masses has to start with how ones self presents himself to others, calling everyone in the North and East thick, stupid Buffalos, who are ignorant dumb and too stupid to vote, when you're trying to get their votes isn't exactly a way to go about things is it??

"But you still don't address my point is that education of the masses has to start with how ones self presents himself to others, calling everyone in the North and East thick, stupid Buffalos, who are ignorant dumb and too stupid to vote, when you're trying to get their votes isn't exactly a way to go about things is it?? "

No it is not. but that goes to show your level of comprehension of the problem that was the theme put forth and retracted by the Yellow shirts in 2008 or 09 not sure which when they occupied the air port. Even before they occupied the air port they had dropped that part.

My contention is they are to stupid to have an informed vote. Your experience backs up my statement weather you like it or not. They are clueless.

How I or you present are selves to the masses has nothing to do with starting education. That is the governments job and in the last 14 years it has not happened. 10 of those years have had Thaksin at the throttle. Education wise it has been full speed spinning of the wheels.

[soalbundy]

Will this stuff never end? I keep reading it every day and it is the same old shit. I would really like to know, what these reforms would be. What would they look like. For anybody that has worked in big business or government, they know that to make small changes takes forever. Here they are talking about major reform, that will make sweeping changes and all within a reasonable time frame like 12-18 months. I think not. For this kind of overhaul to be real and effective would take generations.

What would these reforms look like. Would it be a set of rules. Like Thou shall not steal. Thou shall be honest and work hard for the people or else. Surely these rules exist in some form or another. Or would it be the establishment of Super Audit group to oversee the government. They already have this. ................ So, I am confused what this council would establish in a year that would reform the government/country.

I'm thinking it is just scheme to make the playing field more slanted and make the corruption harder to see.

As i wrote in post 283 this isn't a democratic struggle, this is a power struggle between two mafia groups. Thaksin group wants all the trough,Suthep group would like the trough more evenly shared between the two of them...........eventually an offer will be made that can't be refused.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Well it's clear that you have nothing better to do than trying to count people on a picture. And now that you showed everybody your amazing skills can you tell me what point you try to make?
Or are you still p*ssid of that the pro goverment demonstraters can not get more than 2000 - 3000 people to show up?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I thought that was obvious.

1) I firstly wanted to see how big the protest was, to gauge if Suthep has backing. No he doesn't.

2) I wanted to them compare that to the claims, 1 million, 3 million?... from this I can show the basic dishonesty of these people.

3) I wanted to describe the basic mob counting techniques, so people have their own tools for estimating, independent of me.

4) I wanted to put the size of the mob in perspective. i.e. Yingluk won 59400 votes per seat on average at 2011 election, hence this group at 14k is 25% of one seat.

I also wanted to point out that in a metro city of 14.5 million people, 14,000 / 14.5 million = 0.097%, all these people are just a hop away from the protest and yet they didn't back Suthep.

99.9% of Bangkok people did not go to that protest.

I'm suggesting that the backers of Suthep had better realize this coup has no future, and they would be ill advised to go through with it.

One more point, and this should be obvious to everyone.

Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests.

Bangkok will be Pheu Thai seats at the next election.

Not in the next election or in your life time Blue nose ..........BUT, maybe ,just maybe. In your Dreams alt=rolleyes.gif width=20 height=20> ..... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

"Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests."

What rubbish.

Therefore your saying 99.9% are upcountry folks?

Edited March 30, 2014 by scorecard

[Baerboxer]

Go on with this nonsense.

The rich influence people always can leave Thailand, the ordinary people from North to East to South can't. They will suffer as always.

The "ordinary people" get what they vote for and if Yingluck; rich and influential, would simply leave the country we would all be far better off.

Who are you to think you can advocate a Thai leave the country? Are you Thai? Even if you were Thai, that would be a completely wrong idea unless the Thai chose to leave free of duress or coercion.

Thaksin choose to leave Thailand under duress, but with a lot of ammart knowing it, popping champagne corks and cheering in their estates.

Just who are you to say a Thai should leave Thailand for any reason, involuntarily or otherwise?

You are right that no one should be forced to leave their own country because of their views and beliefs.

Thaksin "chose" or fled the country to avoid a jail sentence for a criminal conviction. He chose not to appeal but instead become a fugitive. The fact there are a 15 more serious charges outstanding in the courts may also have influenced his thinking. He is no different than other criminals who flee their country to escape arrest, trial, jail and punishment for committing crimes. He has the wealth to chose and he made his choice. He even has the wealth to pay for expensive PR lobbying to try and "fudge" over the crimes and claiming he's somehow a victim.

His sister, cousin and all PTP members should not be forced to leave the country. They should, as all public servants, be subjected to the same laws as everyone else and held fully accountable.