Road safety network calls for ban of double-deck buses during Songkran festival

[cooked]

Let me see now... how do I fix a speed limiter to my requirements . They would be as effective as banning drunk driving.

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[ignis]

Trains that tip over, Buses that tip over

So lets have 100's more pickups with 15 to 20 people in the back, or many more Mini Buses? and hope they do not tip over, over the holidays.. Maybe this Group could lease/rent all the pickups and Mini buses that are For Sale for the holiday week ??

Maybe best Ban everything on the roads except double deck buses and see how they get on with roads to themselves ??

thought the 1st of April was yesterday ?

[a99az]

Is that the best road safety could come up with to improve things for the holiday.

[Bigfarang1948]

i have to say they do look like an intelligent bunch, ban double deckers during songkran, that will fix the problem.

People who dont have a clue have the lives of others in the palm of their hands

This would be like putting a band aid on a bleeding artery. Double decker crashes are too common year round. How about vehicle inspections and drug testing drivers for Ya Ba or other drugs before they are allowed to drive each trip ?

it's a real shame on the Thai Transpoprtation Minister and his staff to offer a week long fix to a year round hazard.

[mercman24]

i think songram ought ot be cancelled, you know what a double deckker bus is like on a wet road, dam fatal, what a load of tosh, what will they come up with next, the end of the day it is always speed, (sorry brake failed excuses) that cause accidents. and the reason brakes fail ? is because they are going to dam fast in the first place, brakes overheat, and lose their effectiveness. result CRASH end result FATALITIES.

[rosst]

So now it's the double-decker buses.

Let's hope that not many accidents will involve Isuzu DMax..............it may be very quiet after Songkran 2014

BS of course.........the problem is often the loading of the bus.

If you take a double-decker bus in Europe, travelers tend to take a normal amount of luggage with them (let's 20-25 kg each). Stow this amount (1500-1800 kg) in the luggage-compartments and your bus is way more stabil.

Thai tend to travel light and if possible, they like to take everything with them in the passengers' area.

In other words: the buses are usually loaded in the wrong way and for a 16ton weighing vehicle, loading is very important....as are the brakes and the driving skills and yes.......a speed-limiter is necessary too.

All the above points plus tachographs and driver log books with mandatory driver changes and rest breaks. The speed limiters are important and also proper engine braking systems which improve the performance of the normal service brakes. Proper vehicle design rules are the main problem coupled with poor driver training and conditions.

All of the above need corruption free compliance and we are all aware that is not possible so ban the double deckers for Songkran, at least it will save some lives!!

[yooper2001]

The Big question is. Who took the bribe money to allow these buses to be built or allowed into Thailand.

I am sure that there must be specifications on how high a bus can be and a set safety standard for any vehicle in Thailand.

Someone put money into their pocket and looked away when the bus companies bought these buses.

Shame on the person responsible as he cause many people to die or be injured. also responsible is the lack of police who does not give a crap as long as they get their tea money from helmet check stops.

[surangw]

every year they have to come up with something ( no matter how inane it is) to look like they are doing somehing.

this year is no exception .

[retarius]

Why don't they use tachographs? Ban drivers who speed; jail drivers who speed and drive too many hours. Put large telephone numbers on the buses so that people can report bad driving such as hanging out in the fast lane.

[wilcopops]

Why don't they use tachographs? Ban drivers who speed; jail drivers who speed and drive too many hours. Put large telephone numbers on the buses so that people can report bad driving such as hanging out in the fast lane.

One of the 5 Es is :"enforcement" which all that comes under, but on its own will make little difference and the ability of the Thai authorities to actually enforce anything has been done to death on many threads.

Tachos I believe are fitted to many commercial vehicles as standard but although they are effective at reducing driving hours, even in Europe they can never make a driver sleep. Some countries will use them as evidence of speeding others won't. (Germany used to) Bit I think it would again be unlikely that Thailand would be able to set up and enforce the necessary manpower and bureaucracy required to enforce such a measure.

[Rorri]

wilcopops, on 02 Apr 2014 - 10:06, said:

one wonders how a whole group of apparently intelligent people can mutually kid themselves that this is a practical option.over S/K the Thai public transport system is stretched to breaking point....how on earth would removing a substantial slice of that system do any good. Period of enforcement might help a bit.....but

It seems that the police's idea of that is to sit in a tent outside the police station and chat and snack with the locals.

This just shows how utterly incompetent those involved with road safety are. - i mean it's not as if they don[]'t have info and solutions avaialble to them - these kind of dictums and pronouncements are just a symptom of a bunch of people who have a job they aren't qualified to do, but rather than get sacked from a cushy life-style they come up with crap like this to make it look as if they are working on something. IDIOTS!

What it would do is put more cars on the road, and we know what that would do. Their idea is counter productive, but whoever said Thais think, someone gives them an idea, they all agree to it, because not one of them will question it.

[SanukJoeII]

It's a pity that most posters here cannot see solutions within a time frame.

I agree with all brought up measurements, tachos, speed limiters, driver instruction, techical checks of buses, trucks, minivans, it's all ok and would improve the traffic a lot. But, even in your perfectly organized home country things like that TAKE TIME! No country can introduce all these measurements in one week time! Next week the exodus from Bangkok to the North and the NE starts, what you want to do in one week?

Well, one thing will be easy and that is to ban double deck buses. Easy to check by police. As stated in the previous months 97 people have lost their lives when travelling in double deck buses, amongst them 15 kids. That is 32 per month, and no songkran, so what will it be during songkran? Any input? 50/100/200 deaths?

Don't you know-all guys agree with me that ANY measurement that saves one or more lives is worth it? So ban the double-deck buses during songkran, and after that period get to do a techinical inspection of ALL buses and trucks, provided there are enough techno stations to perform that. The double deck buses can already be tested when they are banned from the roads in the next 3-4 weeks... Police checks with alcohol and drugs testing devices would take care of quite a number of drivers (up to 40%) not able to continue their trip or maybe after 8 hours sleep ("Here is your driver speaking, the police has taken the keys of the bus so we are forced to stay here for the next 8 hours. I wish you all a good night sleep, thank you for traveling with ShitShit bustours....")

A chaos might be the result of this. Good! Let songkran people get home two days later than planned, because of wrong buses or wrong drivers, that will shift the reliable bus operators from the easy-money-no-responsibility operators. Something has to be done, now!

[transam]

, I wonder if this bunch of high flyer's have thought how many folk will be killed via folk chucking water at cars and bikes this year. Not that they could control it, as no official body cannot control anything in LOS.

[takkatan in the land]

"They said most drivers of these double-deck buses have no experience........ also drive over speed limits."

acording with this they should ban most of the bangkok bus drivers too

[takkatan in the land]

Why not also teach drivers to drive their cars

and

Motorcyclists how to ride their bikes.

Most of all... Teach Thais about road rules and that also includes the Police... Its laughable to watch people on bikes with no helmets ride past a police person... Nobody give 2 hoots.

There is a reason why Thailand has a bad reputation in Transport.

impossible mission, hopeless people

[edwinchester]

One suspects that this suggestion has already been suffled to the bottom of the 'to do' pile of a yet to be appointed sub-committee of a soon to be formed transport working group.

[GentlemanJim]

When are they going to start the body count this year. It's always wrong but interesting to follow.

Well if we start the body count on a day by day basis now, everyone will see that there is actually no difference at all, in fact I am sure the deaths on the road during songkran are less than on normal days. Lets start the count a week early and finish a week late and see what happens. It can't be that hard to publish the 'count' every day.

[edwinchester]

The true death toll bears absolutely no relation to the daily published figure so what's the point?

[fakename]

When the accident victim is lucky enough to not die at the scene, but dies in the hospital, he is not listed as a traffic death. So, the death rate may be even twice as high, as what is reported. All statistics here are juggled to fit what someone wants. Easy to see that in TAT's statistics, any numbers they want.

As far as banning double deck buses on the holidays, just think of how many deaths there would be, with thousands of over loaded pick ups, on the roads. Im sure they will re think this ban, but after the holidays, it will all be back to normal. They will wait till the next holiday season starts, then come up with more BS, to make it look like they are on the job. TIT

[ginjag]

completely missing the point. there have to be some smart, logical, educated, capable people in thailand... some people who actually care and want to do something about the carnage on the roads... but where are they?!

They are there but do not get a look in. Government cabinet the same, selected only not on experience/merit.

Police positions, and local government appointments are an example. another glaring example are these SO CALLED actors on Thai soaps---only well connected persons placed in positions.

This is relevant to topic as these bodies of people have NO HOPE in righting the wrongs. Until people are selected on merit/experience every walk of life in Thailand will remain stagnant.

This is where your REFORM comes into play.

[LennyW]

Don't ban them, just put speed limiters on all buses and trucks. Also, tighter training and licensing for drivers. There's enough checkpoints in this country to quickly weed out the untrained drivers.

Speed limiters, tachographs and training - and stiff penalties for offenders. Apply to buses single and double decker, mini-vans and all trucks. I can dream...

[ginjag]

Don't ban them, just put speed limiters on all buses and trucks. Also, tighter training and licensing for drivers. There's enough checkpoints in this country to quickly weed out the untrained drivers.

The very first time I am in agreement with you, I hope it is not a one off. Dream !!!!!

I want to add this my friend, To implement the things you mentioned NEEDS a government department to ACT, but that is the difficulty your post contradicts what your stance is. Whenever constructive criticism against the Yingluck administration is posted YOU condemn it.

To sum up, by putting the wrongs right you will get your good post wishes dealt with. (or have a better chance).

Edited April 6, 2014 by ginjag

[wilcopops]

Is it the drivers or buses that are unsafe? Do the buses suddenly become safe after songkran.

Academic dimwits.

do the drivers become safe after Song Khran?

[wilcopops]

A photo i re-dug up recently.........

tilt test - UK, my point being the age of the photo!

http://www.distractify.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads//2014/04/83598500-620x.jpg

Edited April 27, 2014 by wilcopops

[Robby nz]

Were there any double-deck bus deaths during Songkran ?

I didnt read about any.

Most of the deaths and injuries were said to involve motorbikes and pickups.

Perhaps they should be banned and everyone should travel by bus.

After all last years stats on road deaths showed that less than 1% of road deaths involved buses and other heavy vehicles.

However there should be none, that is, that can be attributed to faults in the busses or drivers.

There are times when a bus cant avoid other road users.

[wilcopops]

Were there any double-deck bus deaths during Songkran ?

I didnt read about any.

Most of the deaths and injuries were said to involve motorbikes and pickups.

Perhaps they should be banned and everyone should travel by bus.

After all last years stats on road deaths showed that less than 1% of road deaths involved buses and other heavy vehicles.

However there should be none, that is, that can be attributed to faults in the busses or drivers.

There are times when a bus cant avoid other road users.

Problem with stats is as I've said many times before, that they are open to different interpretations......

What is needed is some rationalised conclusions from the stats.

These buses do not represent a massive proportion of the road users BUT the problem is primarily that these passengers are at an unacceptably high level of risk compared to some other groups.

Just blaming the driver is NOT sufficient and doesn't tell the whole story. The main problem is the design and construction of the bus; it is responsible for extensive and otherwise avoidable death and injury to passengers IN THE EVENT of an incident. They are more likely to loose control than other vehicles and the construction affords little or no protection to passengers.

You would expect to see the figures in proportion compared to the numbers of vehicle types on the roads and I suspect that this isn't far from the reality.

Motorcyclists account for around 70% of road deaths in Thailand........but this is largely a combination of two factors - the vast number of motorcycles and the lack of crash helmets worn by riders and their passengers.

[Robby nz]

Were there any double-deck bus deaths during Songkran ?

I didnt read about any.

Most of the deaths and injuries were said to involve motorbikes and pickups.

Perhaps they should be banned and everyone should travel by bus.

After all last years stats on road deaths showed that less than 1% of road deaths involved buses and other heavy vehicles.

However there should be none, that is, that can be attributed to faults in the busses or drivers.

There are times when a bus cant avoid other road users.

Problem with stats is as I've said many times before, that they are open to different interpretations......

What is needed is some rationalised conclusions from the stats.

These buses do not represent a massive proportion of the road users BUT the problem is primarily that these passengers are at an unacceptably high level of risk compared to some other groups.

Just blaming the driver is NOT sufficient and doesn't tell the whole story. The main problem is the design and construction of the bus; it is responsible for extensive and otherwise avoidable death and injury to passengers IN THE EVENT of an incident. They are more likely to loose control than other vehicles and the construction affords little or no protection to passengers.

You would expect to see the figures in proportion compared to the numbers of vehicle types on the roads and I suspect that this isn't far from the reality.

Motorcyclists account for around 70% of road deaths in Thailand........but this is largely a combination of two factors - the vast number of motorcycles and the lack of crash helmets worn by riders and their passengers.

These buses do not represent a massive proportion of the road users BUT the problem is primarily that these passengers are at an unacceptably high level of risk compared to some other groups.

Very obviously not true.

Your last paragraph proves it.

[wilcopops]

Were there any double-deck bus deaths during Songkran ?

I didnt read about any.

Most of the deaths and injuries were said to involve motorbikes and pickups.

Perhaps they should be banned and everyone should travel by bus.

After all last years stats on road deaths showed that less than 1% of road deaths involved buses and other heavy vehicles.

However there should be none, that is, that can be attributed to faults in the busses or drivers.

There are times when a bus cant avoid other road users.

Problem with stats is as I've said many times before, that they are open to different interpretations......

What is needed is some rationalised conclusions from the stats.

These buses do not represent a massive proportion of the road users BUT the problem is primarily that these passengers are at an unacceptably high level of risk compared to some other groups.

Just blaming the driver is NOT sufficient and doesn't tell the whole story. The main problem is the design and construction of the bus; it is responsible for extensive and otherwise avoidable death and injury to passengers IN THE EVENT of an incident. They are more likely to loose control than other vehicles and the construction affords little or no protection to passengers.

You would expect to see the figures in proportion compared to the numbers of vehicle types on the roads and I suspect that this isn't far from the reality.

Motorcyclists account for around 70% of road deaths in Thailand........but this is largely a combination of two factors - the vast number of motorcycles and the lack of crash helmets worn by riders and their passengers.

These buses do not represent a massive proportion of the road users BUT the problem is primarily that these passengers are at an unacceptably high level of risk compared to some other groups.

Very obviously not true.

Your last paragraph proves it.

Would you like to clarify that?

[John Clarke]

So the road safety people know " MOST drivers do not know the roads and go over the speed limit".... mmmm mobilize the police more. Don,t chase 500 baht helmet fines from "WEALTHY" farangs, go and save multiple lives, put unsafe vehicles off the road, buses, trucks, utes and cars. Yes there is a cost to improve, but business operators will do nothing unless forced to make safety number 1. Driver education, upgrade vehicle fleets, govt incentives, How much is a life worth?

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