PCAD activist accuses red lobbyist of lese majeste

[webfact]

PCAD Activist Accuses Red Lobbyist Of Lese Majeste
By Khaosod English


Redshirts rally at Aksa Avenue, 6 April 2014

BANGKOK: -- A prominent anti-government activist has pressed charge against a representative of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, accusing him of defaming the monarchy.

Mr. Thaworn Senniam, a core leader of the People's Committee for Absolute Democracy With the King As Head of State (PCAD), arrived at Dusit Police Station in Bangkok today to file complaints to the police.

According to the activist, Mr. Robert Amsterdam, who has been hired by the former leader to represent him in the international stage, has insulted the Royal Family by urging the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to amend the lese majeste laws.

Mr. Amsterdam delivered the remark in his Skype call to a massive pro-government Redshirts rally in Nakhon Pathom province on 6 April. In his call, Mr. Amsterdam faulted Ms. Yingluck's failure to amend Article 112 of the Thai Criminal Codes, which prohibits any remark deemed offensive to the monarchy.

Although Mr. Amsterdam made no direct mention of the monarchy throughout his speech, Mr. Thaworn said the lobbyist's remarks are sufficient ground for prosecution under Article 112.

"Thailand is ruled by democratic regime with the King as Head of State," Spring News quoted Mr. Thaworn as saying, "Therefore, the penalty for insulting the monarchy should be naturally more severe than the defamation of ordinary people, which is no different to how things work in other nations".

Mr. Thaworn also demanded that the Royal Thai Police would strictly take legal action against Mr. Amsterdam. It is not immediately clear whether the police would proceed with the complaint.

Those guilty of charges under Article 112 could face up to 15 years in prison per offence. A number of academics and rights experts have argued that the law has been heavily politicised and regularly used to repress freedom of expression in Thailand.

Source: http://en.khaosod.co.th/detail.php?newsid=1396962271&typecate=06&section=


-- Khaosod English 2014-04-09

[webfact]

a friendly reminder

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) Do not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban. This rule also applies to links to external websites.

/Admin

[Robby nz]

a friendly reminder

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) Do not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban. This rule also applies to links to external websites.

/Admin

It is however OK to express disrespect for Amsterdam.

[GeorgeO]

a friendly reminder

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) Do not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban. This rule also applies to links to external websites.

/Admin

It is however OK to express disrespect for Amsterdam.

The case sounds a bit weak, but I think there are very strong grounds for charges of inciting hatred, insurrection, sedition and secession against this moron.

I recall that the red shirts and the "authorities" jumped all over the last foreigner who stood on a demonstration stage (a peaceful one at that) with subsequent attempts to have him deported.

I trust that Amsterdam (or is it Fryslan Boppe?) will be immediately arrested if he ever tries to set foot on Thai soil....?!

[WoopyDoo]

a friendly reminder

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) Do not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban. This rule also applies to links to external websites.

/Admin

It is however OK to express disrespect for Amsterdam.

The case sounds a bit weak, but I think there are very strong grounds for charges of inciting hatred, insurrection, sedition and secession against this moron.

I recall that the red shirts and the "authorities" jumped all over the last foreigner who stood on a demonstration stage (a peaceful one at that) with subsequent attempts to have him deported.

I trust that Amsterdam (or is it Fryslan Boppe?) will be immediately arrested if he ever tries to set foot on Thai soil....?!

So I am not the only one who suspected that FB is RA... So I am not going loopy after all.

[NongKhaiKid]

a friendly reminder

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) Do not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban. This rule also applies to links to external websites.

/Admin

It is however OK to express disrespect for Amsterdam.

The case sounds a bit weak, but I think there are very strong grounds for charges of inciting hatred, insurrection, sedition and secession against this moron.

I recall that the red shirts and the "authorities" jumped all over the last foreigner who stood on a demonstration stage (a peaceful one at that) with subsequent attempts to have him deported.

I trust that Amsterdam (or is it Fryslan Boppe?) will be immediately arrested if he ever tries to set foot on Thai soil....?!

I seem to recall that in 2010 two foreigners were deported for public involvement with the reds but hope to be corrected if wrong.

One was an Aussie who claimed all sorts of things in his background and was not popular with his embassy and the other was English who was interviewed on TV and couldn't put a sentence together without a liberal sprinkling of the ' F ' word.

If Amsterdam does enter the country this government will easily excuse him and anything he says.

[smutcakes]

They have a nerve with this kind of thing after some of the things that have been said recently by Anti Government protest leaders.

The main one that springs to mind is one of the leaders saying they wanted a President/Chancellor political system like France or Germany, who obviously have no Monarchy.

Obviously know one has batted an eyelid about that......................

[chrisrazz]

POT, KETTLE!

[wave]

The case sounds a bit weak, but I think there are very strong grounds for charges of inciting hatred, insurrection, sedition and secession against this moron.

I recall that the red shirts and the "authorities" jumped all over the last foreigner who stood on a demonstration stage (a peaceful one at that) with subsequent attempts to have him deported.

I trust that Amsterdam (or is it Fryslan Boppe?) will be immediately arrested if he ever tries to set foot on Thai soil....?!

Well the very same charges could be leveled against Suthep and the anti democracy protesters, expect that there are no laws that define hate speech in Thailand.

Such frivolous cases glaringly display that the only reform required is a complete overhaul of the broken legal system.

Specifically the ill conceived and heavily abused Computer Crimes Act and Defamation laws to name but two.

I am loathe to expand upon this as maybe I could also be facing similar charges by the mere discussion of any amendment to certain laws.

Somehow I doubt that this is a reform that would be on the agenda of an "unelected peoples council of good people"..........

Edited April 9, 2014 by wave

[Emptyset]

I seem to recall that in 2010 two foreigners were deported for public involvement with the reds but hope to be corrected if wrong.

One was an Aussie who claimed all sorts of things in his background and was not popular with his embassy and the other was English who was interviewed on TV and couldn't put a sentence together without a liberal sprinkling of the ' F ' word.

If Amsterdam does enter the country this government will easily excuse him and anything he says.

Surely those who defended Satish's write to speak (or actually lead - he was doing far more than Amsterdam is) should also be defending Amsterdam's right to speak as a matter of principle? I don't like Amsterdam or do I pay the slightest bit of attention to what he says, but I see no problem with him appearing on the stage; whether in person, or otherwise. Also glad to note he called for reform of the LM law, at least he said one worthwhile thing.

Of course any LM case against him is complete nonsense. Fortunately it isn't yet LM to speak against the law, though I suppose that may change if PDRC get their way...

[Yunla]

May our most beloved and illustrious HMTK enjoy great health and happiness always.

He has done so much for this nation, unlike Amsterdam and Co. A tree is judged by the quality of the fruits, and in this article I can only see one person worthy of great praise.

[MGP]

If we compare the speech of Robert Amsterdam with the speech of Sathit Segal on the stage, Sathit did not showed disrespect or attacked any person or institution; Sathit basically said that for the goodness of Thailand there should be more transparency and less corruption. And yet the caretaker government wanted to deport him to the country where he was born, although he has lived almost all his life in Thailand and he has worked hard for the development of strong business relationships between Thailand and India (he was president of the India-Thai Chamber of Commerce).

On the other side, Robert Amsterdam, who only works for Thaksin Shinawatra and does not live in Thai soil, insulted Royal Thai institutions like the Constitutional Court, the National Anti-Corruption Commission, the Judicial System, the Senate…

With or without Thaksinism on power, Amsterdam does not have a future in Thailand.

Edited April 9, 2014 by MGP

[tezzainoz]

They have a nerve with this kind of thing after some of the things that have been said recently by Anti Government protest leaders.

The main one that springs to mind is one of the leaders saying they wanted a President/Chancellor political system like France or Germany, who obviously have no Monarchy.

Obviously know one has batted an eyelid about that......................

If you had not noticed

The big difference is They Are Thai

Time to open your eyes

[northernjohn]

They have a nerve with this kind of thing after some of the things that have been said recently by Anti Government protest leaders.

The main one that springs to mind is one of the leaders saying they wanted a President/Chancellor political system like France or Germany, who obviously have no Monarchy.

Obviously know one has batted an eyelid about that......................

"1) Do not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban. This rule also applies to links to external websites."

Not sure which one of those applies' to your statement. Was there a mention of doing away with royalty? Or any other mention of it? The very fact they discussed two different systems leaves the door open for a mixture of systems.

[edwinchester]

I consider myself a fairly level headed person as I hold the Reds/PT and Suthep/Dems in equal contempt and think it is a very sad state of affairs when even discussion of LM, considered by many as very harsh in it's penalties, is thought of an attack on the Monarchy. Debate of stringent laws should never be out of bounds in a democracy.

[Nickymaster]

Amsterdam is Thaksin's mouthpiece. He says and writes whatever his paymaster tells him. He recently wrote a very nasty piece about Prayuth.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited April 9, 2014 by Nickymaster

[smutcakes]

They have a nerve with this kind of thing after some of the things that have been said recently by Anti Government protest leaders.

The main one that springs to mind is one of the leaders saying they wanted a President/Chancellor political system like France or Germany, who obviously have no Monarchy.

Obviously know one has batted an eyelid about that......................

If you had not noticed

The big difference is They Are Thai

Time to open your eyes

Well if anything it reinforces the point! There is little Thailand can do to foreigners outside the country commenting as they want.

The others being Thai and in Thailand should know better!

[LomSak27]

The Lese M charge is always a great tool

If you can't in an election

[JohnP1752]

Mr Thaworn is another fascist madman trying to shut anyones mouth that he doesn't like. I agree that this law should be revoked and freedom of speech granted to the population of Thailand so they can start debating the facts and truth openly. How ridiculous to make it illegal to talk about someone and the way this law is twisted to suit people.

Also, how can he compare defamation laws in Thailand to other countries, Thailand's defamation laws are only used for silencing critics of the elites, whether in politics or business.

[fab4]

a friendly reminder

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) Do not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or anyone else in the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family. Discussion of the lese majeste law or lese majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family. To breach this rule will result in immediate ban. This rule also applies to links to external websites.

/Admin

It is however OK to express disrespect for Amsterdam.

I thought it was compulsory amongst certain circles.

[fab4]

May our most beloved and illustrious HMTK enjoy great health and happiness always.

He has done so much for this nation, unlike Amsterdam and Co. A tree is judged by the quality of the fruits, and in this article I can only see one person worthy of great praise.

Are you Thai?

[attrayant]

I don't quite get how this works:

Article 112 of the Thai Criminal Codes [...] prohibits any remark deemed offensive to the monarchy.

Wouldn't you have to check with the monarchy to see whether or not they deemed an utterance to be offensive?

[webfact]

Thaksin's Lawyer Denounces Lese Majeste Allegation
By Khaosod English


Mr. Robert Amsterdam (File photo)

BANGKOK: -- Lobbyist and legal representative of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has condemned the allegation put forth by the Lawyers Council of Thailand that he has insulted the Thai monarchy.

According to the statement issued yesterday, the Lawyers Council of Thailand Under the Royal Patronage argued that Mr. Robert Amsterdam has "defamed" the monarchy and insulted the Thai judicial system during his Skype call to pro-government Redshirts rally on 6 April in Nakhon Prathom province.

In the Skype call, Mr. Amsterdam urged the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to amend the Article 112 of the Criminal Codes, widely known as the "lese majeste" law, which prohibits any remark deemed critical of the monarchy.

He made no direct mention to the Thai Royal Family, but the Lawyers Council considers it a sufficient cause of insult for the monarchy, calling for the police to press charge of 112 Article against Mr. Amsterdam.

"It is the duty of the Royal Thai Police, the General Attorney, and the Ministry of Interior Affairs to proceed with this legal case," the statement insisted.

An anti-government activist, Mr. Thaworn Senniam, has also filed a separate lese majeste complaint to the police against Mr. Amsterdam yesterday for his Skype remarks.

Critics of Ms. Yingluck are mostly conservative royalists who view the Shinawatra family and their supporters as corrupt republicans with anti-monarchy agenda, although Ms. Yingluck and her close aides have repeatedly denied the allegation.

Speaking in a phone interview today, Mr. Amsterdam expressed outrage at the Lawyers Council of Thailand's statement accusing him of lese majeste, statting that there is absolutely no basis for lese majeste allegation in what he has told the Redshirts demonstrators.

The lobbyist vowed to respond "aggressively" to Lawyers Council, and added that he is deeply disappointed that its members made no effort to contact him before they issued the statement, despite the fact that some of them personally knew him as colleagues.

"I have never seen so unfair a conduct. This Council should be ashamed of themselves, because they have duty to fight for human rights," Mr. Amsterdam said from Los Angeles, "They should remember that they are lawyers ... yet they have violated due process and fairness".

Asked to comment on the lese majeste charge filed by Mr. Thaworn, Mr. Amsterdam indicated that he was not aware of the incident, and said he does not wish to take seriously the people who refuse to debate him openly on the subject.

Mr. Amsterdam also insisted on the point he has made in the Skype call, stating that the Article 112 should be amended, and he felt even more strongly toward the issue following the statement by the Lawyers Council of Thailand.

"[Lese majeste] is one of the most overused, misunderstood statutes in the world," Mr. Amsterdam told Khaosod, "It does not in any way serve the purpose it was designed. People in Thailand are afriad to talk about it - and I understand why - but I am not afraid to talk about it".

He added that he is not deterred by the threats of legal actions against him, and that he will visit Thailand again in the near future.

Source: http://en.khaosod.co.th/detail.php?newsid=1397016609&section=11&typecate=06


-- Khaosod English 2014-04-09

[smutcakes]

'Critics of Ms. Yingluck are mostly conservative royalists who view the Shinawatra family and their supporters as corrupt republicans with anti-monarchy agenda"

Absolute rubbish, they pretend to be as it is an easy thing to say, and difficult to argue against for obvious reasons. They care about their position in society and the size of their pockets.

[bangon04]

"He added that he is not deterred by the threats of legal actions against him, and that he will visit Thailand again in the near future."

He clearly does not understand the strength of feeling which could cause retribution from the uneducated. It is not the court case which might be his greatest danger...

[siampolee]

Perhaps it might be an insight into the current situation if one read the article in the link listed below. Yes a trifle historic circa 2008 but in truth little has changed over the ensuing years.

www.nytimes.com/2008/12/01/.../01iht-edthompson.3.18294794.html‎

Edited April 9, 2014 by siampolee

[Dogmatix]

If we compare the speech of Robert Amsterdam with the speech of Sathit Segal on the stage, Sathit did not showed disrespect or attacked any person or institution; Sathit basically said that for the goodness of Thailand there should be more transparency and less corruption. And yet the caretaker government wanted to deport him to the country where he was born, although he has lived almost all his life in Thailand and he has worked hard for the development of strong business relationships between Thailand and India (he was president of the India-Thai Chamber of Commerce).

On the other side, Robert Amsterdam, who only works for Thaksin Shinawatra and does not live in Thai soil, insulted Royal Thai institutions like the Constitutional Court, the National Anti-Corruption Commission, the Judicial System, the Senate…

With or without Thaksinism on power, Amsterdam does not have a future in Thailand.

You should add the Royal Thai Army to the list of institutions defamed by Robert Amsterdam in his speech.

I don't thing the LM charges have any credibility because it is not an insult to the monarchy to advocate reform of the law or to criticize Poo for not reforming it, despite PT campaign promises to hard core red shirts that they would. But they have the advantage that they can be filed by anyone and are much harder to shake off than other charges.

Amsterdam should certainly be blacklisted by Immigration for his remarks and his personal involvement in confrontational street politics as a foreigner. The defamed institutions should also pursue criminal defamation charges against him and the rally organisers who broadcast his defamatory remarks.

[WoopyDoo]

If we compare the speech of Robert Amsterdam with the speech of Sathit Segal on the stage, Sathit did not showed disrespect or attacked any person or institution; Sathit basically said that for the goodness of Thailand there should be more transparency and less corruption. And yet the caretaker government wanted to deport him to the country where he was born, although he has lived almost all his life in Thailand and he has worked hard for the development of strong business relationships between Thailand and India (he was president of the India-Thai Chamber of Commerce).

On the other side, Robert Amsterdam, who only works for Thaksin Shinawatra and does not live in Thai soil, insulted Royal Thai institutions like the Constitutional Court, the National Anti-Corruption Commission, the Judicial System, the Senate…

With or without Thaksinism on power, Amsterdam does not have a future in Thailand.

You should add the Royal Thai Army to the list of institutions defamed by Robert Amsterdam in his speech.

I don't thing the LM charges have any credibility because it is not an insult to the monarchy to advocate reform of the law or to criticize Poo for not reforming it, despite PT campaign promises to hard core red shirts that they would. But they have the advantage that they can be filed by anyone and are much harder to shake off than other charges.

Amsterdam should certainly be blacklisted by Immigration for his remarks and his personal involvement in confrontational street politics as a foreigner. The defamed institutions should also pursue criminal defamation charges against him and the rally organisers who broadcast his defamatory remarks.

My favourite comment.

He added that he is not deterred by the threats of legal actions against him, and that he will visit Thailand again in the near future.

Please come Mr Amsterdam.... You can stay at my house.

[Dogmatix]

Thaksin's Lawyer Denounces Lese Majeste Allegation

By Khaosod English

Mr. Robert Amsterdam (File photo)

If you ever need an emetic, just look at a picture of this guy, or better still watch him in action on YouTube.

I don't think he will actually be visiting Thailand, in the near future, as he claims but rather hope he tries The police will most likely agree to file the case, however frivolous it may be, because everyone has the right to file a case. The police can be charged for refusing to cooperate and he has managed to get the Lawyers Council of Thailand up in arms against him. He might be arrested without bail, if he came to Thailand, since all foreigners are regarded as flight risks. The army might also decided to file a criminal defamation case against him for good measure.

He might actually have a great opportunity to spend a few months in jail facing LM and criminal defamation charges. That would put him a good position to campaign against the laws from abroad as a martyr once he has been released, deported and blacklisted. If he is a genuine activist, he will seize this chance.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Nickymaster]

Thaksin's Lawyer Denounces Lese Majeste Allegation

By Khaosod English

Mr. Robert Amsterdam (File photo)

BANGKOK: -- Lobbyist and legal representative of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has condemned the allegation put forth by the Lawyers Council of Thailand that he has insulted the Thai monarchy.

According to the statement issued yesterday, the Lawyers Council of Thailand Under the Royal Patronage argued that Mr. Robert Amsterdam has "defamed" the monarchy and insulted the Thai judicial system during his Skype call to pro-government Redshirts rally on 6 April in Nakhon Prathom province.

In the Skype call, Mr. Amsterdam urged the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to amend the Article 112 of the Criminal Codes, widely known as the "lese majeste" law, which prohibits any remark deemed critical of the monarchy.

He made no direct mention to the Thai Royal Family, but the Lawyers Council considers it a sufficient cause of insult for the monarchy, calling for the police to press charge of 112 Article against Mr. Amsterdam.

"It is the duty of the Royal Thai Police, the General Attorney, and the Ministry of Interior Affairs to proceed with this legal case," the statement insisted.

An anti-government activist, Mr. Thaworn Senniam, has also filed a separate lese majeste complaint to the police against Mr. Amsterdam yesterday for his Skype remarks.

Critics of Ms. Yingluck are mostly conservative royalists who view the Shinawatra family and their supporters as corrupt republicans with anti-monarchy agenda, although Ms. Yingluck and her close aides have repeatedly denied the allegation.

Speaking in a phone interview today, Mr. Amsterdam expressed outrage at the Lawyers Council of Thailand's statement accusing him of lese majeste, statting that there is absolutely no basis for lese majeste allegation in what he has told the Redshirts demonstrators.

The lobbyist vowed to respond "aggressively" to Lawyers Council, and added that he is deeply disappointed that its members made no effort to contact him before they issued the statement, despite the fact that some of them personally knew him as colleagues.

"I have never seen so unfair a conduct. This Council should be ashamed of themselves, because they have duty to fight for human rights," Mr. Amsterdam said from Los Angeles, "They should remember that they are lawyers ... yet they have violated due process and fairness".

Asked to comment on the lese majeste charge filed by Mr. Thaworn, Mr. Amsterdam indicated that he was not aware of the incident, and said he does not wish to take seriously the people who refuse to debate him openly on the subject.

Mr. Amsterdam also insisted on the point he has made in the Skype call, stating that the Article 112 should be amended, and he felt even more strongly toward the issue following the statement by the Lawyers Council of Thailand.

"[Lese majeste] is one of the most overused, misunderstood statutes in the world," Mr. Amsterdam told Khaosod, "It does not in any way serve the purpose it was designed. People in Thailand are afriad to talk about it - and I understand why - but I am not afraid to talk about it".

He added that he is not deterred by the threats of legal actions against him, and that he will visit Thailand again in the near future.

Source: http://en.khaosod.co.th/detail.php?newsid=1397016609&section=11&typecate=06

-- Khaosod English 2014-04-09

I didn't know this scumbag was speaking to the Reds last week. But since he is a good friend of Nathawut I am not really surprised.