What percentage of the population are considered as Gay ?

[David48]

I was going to post this over in Jingthing's excellent topic http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/717559-gay-slur-words and someone mentioned statistics ... so it got me thinking.

Talking of statistics ... what percentage of the population are considered as 'Gay'.

I once read 10% ... then I go to a Rugby game, see 40,000 people and think ... are there really 4,000 gay people here.

Difficult for a straight guy to imagine.

That is presuming that your sexual orientation does not predetermine your entertainment choices (no pun intended) ... thinking of the Female gay population as well.

OH ... second question if I may ... is 'Dude' a specific Gay word?

Any deeper connotations?

Thanks in advance ... I'm always learning.

.

[Costas2008]

Why should I care as to the percentage of gay people?

They are also ordinary people, struggling in their everyday lives as we all do.

[sustento]

Depends who you ask.The real answer is no-one knows.

As for 'Dude'

[Jingthing]

The demographics of sexual orientation are difficult to establish for a variety of reasons.

...

The population that has come to be referred to as "gay" in the West is not a descriptive term that would be recognized by all men who have sex with men (MSM) as known in the rest of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

[isanbirder]

What percentage "are considered", David? It depends who's doing the considering. Wiki probably gives as good an answer as any.

But do you include the bis? There are quite a lot of them. And they are even more difficult to define.

[Scott]

The two ambiguous groups that affect the statistics are bisexual and men who have sex with men. A fair number of the those that identify themselves as bisexual are probably not much more than closeted homosexuals. MSM are probably similar. For some the stigma or pressure from peers and family is too great to identify as being gay.

The bisexuals and MSM will probably not have a significant impact statistically on issues such as gay unions, social security benefits for survivors, gay adoption etc., but they can impact on medical conditions, such as disease transmission.

[David48]

Why should I care as to the percentage of gay people?

They are also ordinary people, struggling in their everyday lives as we all do.

Why ...?

Well, the 'Gay Movement' ^* have such a strong voice, obviously well organised, I was wondering what percentage of the population they represented.

I was told '10%' once ... so that was obviously way off.

^* apologies if the term is incorrect, but I know

[David48]

BTW ... thanks to the person who rated this topic as '1 Star', as have most of my other threads here.

For all the reasons for tolerance ... but none to be with that action.

I know who you are ...

[Scott]

If you are wondering about the % of gays because of the relative power of the GLBT movement in political terms, I think you will find that people supporting the movement include many non-gays. First when you talk about Bi and Transgender that is another dimension. Then there are those people who support civil rights in general, similar to those who supported civil rights for blacks, but who weren't black. Then you get the groups that make agreements with other groups for mutual support of causes. Add to that number the family members.

Put these all together and you get a movement that is more powerful than the % of gay folks.

[onthemoon]

I know MSM who insist that they are straight. I also now gay guys who have slept with women.

But no, I don't think 10% of the visitors of a rugby game are gay. I do believe that this is not a particular event for gays to assemble, and that the visitors of a rugby game are not composed the same way the general population is.

I will also assume that in countries were homosexuality is oppressed (Iran, African countries) there tend to be less gay people. This may be because people do not want to admit to themselves that they are gay. In USA there used to be Christian "therapeutic" groups for gays to learn how to have sexual intercourse with women and found families. These people considered themselves "cured" and therefore straight. Which they never were, of course. So, do you count these people too?

How many people identify as gay, and how many people "are" gay? I have heard figures from 3% to 10%.

By the way, swans are one of the non-human species that form same-sex relationships. How many percent of all male swans are gay? Does anybody know?

[WitawatWatawit]

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread, but I think my question is relevant to some of the info given above (and no doubt it's been discussed elsewhere - it's just that I have not seen it). Many people use the all-inclusive words "gay" and "straight". Often in a pejorative sense. It's convenient for them. But there are many shades of grey. It was once suggested to me that the expression "non-straight" was appropriate, but I still can't get into that kind of thinking. As I said, too many shades of grey. So, do the posters here feel it is acceptable?

So, David, 10%. That would mean three of the players on the field are gay. They'd be tough lads, then. Just like Ian Roberts and Gareth Thomas.

[David48]

How many people identify as gay, and how many people "are" gay? I have heard figures from 3% to 10%.

That's raised an interesting point that I've never considered ...

I never thought that someone would 'identify (themselves) as gay' ... but wasn't really.

I'm learning everyday.

BTW ... some great posts above ...

[David48]

... So, David, 10%. That would mean three of the players on the field are gay. They'd be tough lads, then. Just like Ian Roberts and Gareth Thomas.

I know of Ian Roberts ... a great Manly Prop I admired his game.

But don't recall Gareth Thomas.

[WitawatWatawit]

... So, David, 10%. That would mean three of the players on the field are gay. They'd be tough lads, then. Just like Ian Roberts and Gareth Thomas.

I know of Ian Roberts ... a great Manly Prop I admired his game.

But don't recall Gareth Thomas.

Welsh, one of the all-time great players who caused my beloved All Blacks no end of trouble. He "came out" a year or two ago, if I recall.

BTW, I was a Manly supporter when I lived in Sydney. I saw Roberts play many times.

[Neeranam]

Coincidentally maybe but most of the gay women I have known showed an interest in rugby.

However, my gay male friends didn't, that I'm aware of.

[onthemoon]

How many people identify as gay, and how many people "are" gay? I have heard figures from 3% to 10%.

That's raised an interesting point that I've never considered ...

I never thought that someone would 'identify (themselves) as gay' ... but wasn't really.

I'm learning everyday.

BTW ... some great posts above ...

No, I don't know anybody who identifies as gay but isn't. But I know guys who identify as straight but do like sex with men.

Edit: Is a straight guy who has sex with men straight or gay? Is a gay guy who has sex with women not gay? Especially of neither of them identify as bi.

How about guys who identified as straight and had families but found out they were gay when they were in their 40s or 50s? I know some of those too.

Edited April 20, 2014 by onthemoon

[David48]

@ onthemoon :- How many people identify as gay, and how many people "are" gay? I have heard figures from 3% to 10%.

@ David48 :- That's raised an interesting point that I've never considered ...

I never thought that someone would 'identify (themselves) as gay' ... but wasn't really.

@ onthemoon :-

No, I don't know anybody who identifies as gay but isn't. But I know guys who identify as straight but do like sex with men.

Edit: Is a straight guy who has sex with men straight or gay? Is a gay guy who has sex with women not gay? Especially of neither of them identify as bi.

How about guys who identified as straight and had families but found out they were gay when they were in their 40s or 50s? I know some of those too.

Well ... that really does open the can of worms.

To be honest, I have no idea.

I've heard stories of gay men marrying, having children, presumably to keep a straight facade ... man, that must be a tough gig ...

I can't begin to understand the pressure for a man, or a woman to have to have taken that route in the past before.

Hopefully, society today is more accepting, thus 'open their mind' to relationships of the 'square' type which doesn't fit into the regular round hole (no pun intended).

[David48]

How about guys who identified as straight and had families but found out they were gay when they were in their 40s or 50s? I know some of those too.

Another interesting point (as I have no idea) ... I sort of thought that Gays knew early where attraction lies.

That said, my mind is open and happy to receive the comments as such.

.

[sustento]

Peaceblondie - our former mod- had 6 kids and came out in his 60s.

[Jingthing]

The relative percentage of gay people (small or large) in populations has been politicized by BOTH gay civil rights activists and also enemies of gay civil rights. If we're a tiny minority, then there aren't enough of us to matter because we don't rate as a real "force" and if we're a large group then we're seen as a dangerous threat and provide a rationale for straights to preserve discriminatory laws, such as the recent right wing U.S. demonization of gays with slurs like Gaystapo. On the pro gay side, as the article below explains, being incorrectly perceived as being much bigger than we are has been used to promote our political and economic importance, and on the other hand being seen as a very small minority can be used as an argument that granting us full rights and you won't even notice because there are so few of us anyway, so you might as well!

My feeling is the percentage can't accurately be measured for the reasons already given here, and it should not MATTER how small or big. Gays are obviously a minority group (whatever the precise percentage) that lacks equal civil and social rights in almost every country in the world. In many nations, you can be easily be murdered just for being gay. This international struggle should be about civil rights, as in gay rights are HUMAN RIGHTS as future U.S. president Ms. Clinton famously said, pure and simple.

Personally, I think the percentage of solid gay people (definitively self identified) is really small, like 1 or 2 percent, but the percentage of men who have had MSM in their lives is rather HIGH. But the latter aren't part of the gay demographic for the most part.

This article is rather amusing though:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

Surveys show a shockingly high fraction think a quarter of the country is gay or lesbian, when the reality is that it's probably less than 2 percent.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[David48]

Jingthing, I appreciate the post above but please not the strongly emotive 'enemies of gay civil rights'.

The cause will not attract more followers if you describe as those who are 'not on-board' as 'enemies'.

also, please leave the US Politics to other threads ... 'future U.S. president Ms. Clinton'.

I prefer to stay focused on the nature of the OP without digressing to other issues.

Thanks for your co-operation, I know you'll respect this threead ...

[Scott]

So quoting someone from the US is bringing US politics into the thread?

I think the statement was: This international struggle should be about civil rights, as in gay rights are HUMAN RIGHTS

[David48]

So quoting someone from the US is bringing US politics into the thread?

I think the statement was: This international struggle should be about civil rights, as in gay rights are HUMAN RIGHTS

He (Jingthing) has made a political opinion that the next Democrat leader and then the next President of the USA will be Hilliary Clinton ... that is bringing a political opinion into the discussion IMHO ... how do you see it differently?

The OP is about 'What percentage of the population are gay' ... nothing to do with 'international struggle should be about civil rights, as in gay rights are HUMAN RIGHTS'

[onthemoon]

How about guys who identified as straight and had families but found out they were gay when they were in their 40s or 50s? I know some of those too.

Another interesting point (as I have no idea) ... I sort of thought that Gays knew early where attraction lies.

That said, my mind is open and happy to receive the comments as such.

Some know early on, others don't. I believe it has to do with the place and the way you were brought up. If you grow up in a world in which homosexuality does not exist and you don't see it anywhere, you wouldn't likely admit it to yourself. If you see and hear of other gay people, it is more likely that you join them and develop a self-confidence about it.

Keep in mind that anybody who finds out in his sixties (ten years ago) that he is gay, grew up in a totally different time from us. Not only was it normal even in the west to have discriminating laws, there was also a lot less of TV and certainly no internet when these people grew up.

Gee, I know I first thought that I was the only gay in the world when I noticed that I was different, but at least I grew up in a family environment that allowed me to have thoughts that were out-of-the-box, so I didn't feel bad about it but became curious whether there were other young men like me. Turned out there were.

[Scott]

Stay on topic, please.

[Jingthing]

It is well documented that sexual orientation tendencies are well set for MALES at a young age. For females, less so. Again, this is NOT the same thing as GAY identity! Gay as an identity group is a MODERN concept. Obviously, there are individual variations, but for the most part if a man comes out as 60 as a "gay man", his preference for males was actually SET during his early life. Again, bottom line -- there is no real percentage number for this that is going to very meaningful ... there are just too many CULTURAL factors to make that possible to do. We do know when talking about self identified gay people we're talking about a group of people that is always going to be a minority group and NEVER a significantly large percentage minority group at that.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[David48]

^^ Fair enough and a good comment ...

I had no idea about the difference between Males and Females re their sexual identity and the age of decision.

In the large Thai Family I live with, we have a Dee. but she does express interest in Boys/Men. But she doesn't seem confused, flipping from one to another ... but it feels more growing pains or a decision making time.

Difficult for me to know as I have naught experience in this area and just observing my gf's niece.

[onthemoon]

I'm not sure it is well documented that men's sexual preferences are set at a very young age, I can only say that anecdotally, I believe it. However, I have never heard that it is less so for women. This difference doesn't sound logical to me.

[Jingthing]

I'm not sure it is well documented that men's sexual preferences are set at a very young age, I can only say that anecdotally, I believe it. However, I have never heard that it is less so for women. This difference doesn't sound logical to me.

I see.

There is scads of literature on this, but I doubt this detour is really on topic though, is it?

Anyway, here's a taste. Perhaps if people are very interested, a new thread would be in order.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/09/understanding-females-sexual-fluidity/

It’s a phenomenon that Lisa Diamond, a University of Utah psychology professor, has studied extensively. In her 2008 book, “Sexual Fluidity: Understanding Women’s Love and Desire,” she writes that women’s sexuality appears to be much more fluid than men’s, and that this fluidity tends to involve three main characteristics:

– Non-exclusivity in attractions: can find either gender sexually attractive

– Changes in attractions: can suddenly find a man or woman sexually attractive after having been in a long-term relationship with the other

– Attraction to the person, not the gender

...

Plus, Nagoski adds, “Women’s experience of sexual orientation is more discontinuous and variable than men’s, which more typically emerges early and stays the same over different situations.” So, while most men tend to identify themselves as straight, gay, or bisexual relatively early in life, many women may have relationships with both men and women without choosing a specific sexual orientation.

[Jingthing]

Back to the topic, this link may provide some more satisfaction as it has the nerve to actually use NUMBERS:

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/sexual-orientation-gender/sexual-orientation-26529.htm

How Many People Are Lesbian, Gay, or Bisexual (LGB)?

There's no way to know for sure because many people don't identify as LGB, or may not act on LGB attractions. Someone may have strong sexual attractions to only one gender or another, or be equally attracted to both genders, or tend to be attracted to one gender more than the other. For example, a woman may identify as straight, but have occasional sexual attractions to women, or have one sexual experience with a woman while all of her relationships are with men. For some people, sexual orientation can shift, or seem to shift, at different periods in their lives. It's difficult to measure how many people are LGB when sexual orientation is so complex for many people. People with same-sex attractions may also choose not to identify as LGB because of fear of discrimination.

Research by Alfred Kinsey suggests that about 1 in 10 people are attracted to people of the same gender. Other research suggests somewhat lower estimates. But far fewer than 1 in 10 people identify openly as lesbian, gay, or bisexual.

Research shows that about 3.5 percent of American adults identify as LGB, 8.2 percent report that they've engaged in same-sex sexual behavior, and 11 percent acknowledge at least some same-sex attraction. This shows that what people do or feel is not always the same as how they identify themselves.