Raising Our Kids Thai Style Is Driving Me Insane

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I'm totally bemused by the general anti-Thai sentiments expressed in this thread.

How can your Thai family experiences be so different to mine?

Not only that, but your general experiences of childhood in the west, totally different to mine.

My experiences in the west, constant beatings and bullying at school, until I joined a gang, then it became my turn.

Edited April 28, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[rayongchelsea]

Children need love, not structure.

Your wife and MIL are going a good job, from what I read.

Thailand is a great place for kids to grow up, much more freedom and less fear.

Providing 'LOVE' is probably the most meaningless word linked to raising children.

No definition for it...

In some countries, kids are beaten because parents love them, and want them to be better children.

In some countries, some kids are thrown acid in their face, because parents love them and want them to adhere to cultural values.

In some countries, some kids are allowed to do what they want at any time, because parents want to show that they love them.

In some countries, (fill-in the blank)

Kids need structure

Kids need an environment where they can learn to socialise with other kids

Kids need an environment where they can learn to find solutions to their own problems

Kids need parents to be attentive to their needs

Kids need an environment conducive to becoming responsible adults...

The number of irresponsible actions by Thais in Thailand are just multiple daily occurrences..

And are free to do it with no consequences.

Kids need...none of the above is evident in the Thai school system..or in this country at large..

It should be made a criminal offense to educate your children in some 3rd world system when opportunities are available in the west or good international school here.

Doesn't matter how the mother raises her child when in a few years they get none of what you rightly say is what a child needs..

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mikemac]

Do you have children in Thailand ?

No, but I am Thai and I had 10 Thai Uncles and Aunts and they have countless kids/grandkids.

All of whom appear polite and respectful to adults, even the ones in gangs.

I probably have 100+ relatives under the age of 20 in Thailand.

One of the serious problems in the west is the young victimizing the elderly, that's very rare here.

In my opinion, poor Thail parents do a far better job of bringing up children than poor western parents.

Poor people being the norm, in every country in the world.

I think part of the problem with all the Thai bashing threads is essentially culture shock.

Elderly western men from a privileged background, mixing with dirt poor young Thai women.

They've never mixed with the poor before, and suddenly it's completely different.

Can't imagine many TV posters are poor or uneducated.

If they were, they wouldn't be in Thailand, playground for men with a bit of money.

Good comment.

"I think part of the problem with all the Thai bashing threads is essentially"....................that these rotten threads attract comments that should not even be published and are in direct contravention of forum rule #11. The worst aspect of the forum after trolls and members posting under multiple names.

[transam]

I got a belt round the ear at home (not dad) and school. I thank them all. May I add, when punishment was understood by me, I understood and we all got on fine ...................

[benalibina]

I got a belt round the ear at home (not dad) and school. I thank them all. May I add, when punishment was understood by me, I understood and we all got on fine ...................

Related to this topic.....who should be belted ?

[Beechboy]

I am not legally married, but we have been together six years and have a 4 years old daughter.

I return to England a lot on business.

Our daughter developed some asthma like symptoms whilst I was away and needed hospitalisation. This cost.

The day before I left last time I gave her (my common law) twenty thousand baht on top of my usual imput to look after the little girl should she fall ill again.

She immediately went out and bought herself a gold ring at 18,500 baht. I guess to show off to her friends and family.

When I played up she cried and I fell for it dousing my anger and accepting it without mentioning it again.

I emphasise with the OP and am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I may have to, somehow, put more into the raising of my child. Income is necessary though.

There is such a massive gap in the Thai thinking to our Western ways. All is not bad of course but some mystifies me to distraction yet we will never win.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Beechboy

[ronthai]

Not trying to be funny but what exactly are you contributing to your children's up bringing ? Sounds to me like your leaving all this to the wife and relatives and not contributing anything

Agree, but the kid is only 2 now, so get started DADDY

[ALFREDO]

I am not Don Quixote, who dared to fight against spinning Windmills and lost of course. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

So, I have given up, to influence the mighty tide here in Isaan and so, I go with the wording, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do!"

I could not influence, that my 2 Thai mothers of my 3 sons, 12, 10 and 6 talk at least English with them at home, not even when I was with them!

They both put the boys in Private schools and think that will do the trick from alone.

The outcome, the boy who talks the best English is the youngest, whom I did not order by force, same him mother wanted,

even under heavy tears, to go in Kindergarten,

She chose the Private Kindergarten-school which includes the necessity, to use a school bus at 6:20 AM in the morning and come back with that bus at 5:40 PM in the late afternoon, nearly 12 hours away!!! I said, "Only if h likes to do that harsh trip with 4-5 years young!

I let him decide and so, after some weeks he decided not to go,

but instead spent a lot of hours every day together with him. But he made the necessary tests to qualify for the chosen school.

The older brother asks him for translations.

Discipline, a bit, I could achieve, but regular feeding, eating times, ect. NO!

At least the first Gf had some common sense regarding our boy who grew to a very nice one, only sorry, that I not see him often,

as the betrayals and lies, by this Ex Gf, special regarding money, to me, evolved to a war like conflict!

The second and current Gf has only time for her dice game. (High-Low)

And it needed some time until she stopped to throw rubbish just out of the first floor sleeping room windows. "Can clean later!"

Yes, after the wind and the dogs spread the "throw away" in the whole garden! OMG.

Children used the behavior from Mama for long time as an excuse for the same habit!

Edited April 28, 2014 by ALFREDO

[BKK Blues Brother]

If you are unhappy now with how your children are being raised i suggest a compromise on the op's part.

Reduce your work load and spend as much time as you can spare with your children.

That's what i and have done.

Believe me! It make's a big difference.

Imhe Thai culture of education is at opposite ends of the spectrum to the West.

Give me the boy till he is seven and you maketh the man!

You owe it to yourself and your children.

BBB

[Thai at Heart]

I am not Don Quixote, who dared to fight against spinning Windmills and lost of course. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

So, I have given up, to influence the mighty tide here in Isaan and so, I go with the wording, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do!"

I could not influence, that my 2 Thai mothers of my 3 sons, 12, 10 and 6 talk at least English with them at home, not even when I was with them!

They both put the boys in Private schools and think that will do the trick from alone.

The outcome, the boy who talks the best English is the youngest, whom I did not order by force, same him mother wanted,

even under heavy tears, to go in Kindergarten,

She chose the Private Kindergarten-school which includes the necessity, to use a school bus at 6:20 AM in the morning and come back with that bus at 5:40 PM in the late afternoon, nearly 12 hours away!!! I said, "Only if h likes to do that harsh trip with 4-5 years young!

I let him decide and so, after some weeks he decided not to go,

but instead spent a lot of hours every day together with him. But he made the necessary tests to qualify for the chosen school.

The older brother asks him for translations.

Discipline, a bit, I could achieve, but regular feeding, eating times, ect. NO!

At least the first Gf had some common sense regarding our boy who grew to a very nice one, only sorry, that I not see him often,

as the betrayals and lies, by this Ex Gf, special regarding money, to me, evolved to a war like conflict!

The second and current Gf has only time for her dice game. (High-Low)

And it needed some time until she stopped to throw rubbish just out of the first floor sleeping room windows. "Can clean later!"

Yes, after the wind and the dogs spread the "throw away" in the whole garden! OMG.

Children used the behavior from Mama for long time as an excuse for the same habit!

Alfredo.

You expect your Thai wife to speak English with your kids.

Well, you need your head read.

[benalibina]

I am not Don Quixote, who dared to fight against spinning Windmills and lost of course. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

So, I have given up, to influence the mighty tide here in Isaan and so, I go with the wording, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do!"

I could not influence, that my 2 Thai mothers of my 3 sons, 12, 10 and 6 talk at least English with them at home, not even when I was with them!

They both put the boys in Private schools and think that will do the trick from alone.

The outcome, the boy who talks the best English is the youngest, whom I did not order by force, same him mother wanted,

even under heavy tears, to go in Kindergarten,

She chose the Private Kindergarten-school which includes the necessity, to use a school bus at 6:20 AM in the morning and come back with that bus at 5:40 PM in the late afternoon, nearly 12 hours away!!! I said, "Only if h likes to do that harsh trip with 4-5 years young!

I let him decide and so, after some weeks he decided not to go,

but instead spent a lot of hours every day together with him. But he made the necessary tests to qualify for the chosen school.

The older brother asks him for translations.

Discipline, a bit, I could achieve, but regular feeding, eating times, ect. NO!

At least the first Gf had some common sense regarding our boy who grew to a very nice one, only sorry, that I not see him often,

as the betrayals and lies, by this Ex Gf, special regarding money, to me, evolved to a war like conflict!

The second and current Gf has only time for her dice game. (High-Low)

And it needed some time until she stopped to throw rubbish just out of the first floor sleeping room windows. "Can clean later!"

Yes, after the wind and the dogs spread the "throw away" in the whole garden! OMG.

Children used the behavior from Mama for long time as an excuse for the same habit!

Alfredo.

You expect your Thai wife to speak English with your kids.

Well, you need your head read.

Silly remark.

If you would have read his post and used, not too much though, some imagination your remark would be different. Most likely he is not from an english speaking country....

[Thai at Heart]

I am not Don Quixote, who dared to fight against spinning Windmills and lost of course. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

So, I have given up, to influence the mighty tide here in Isaan and so, I go with the wording, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do!"

I could not influence, that my 2 Thai mothers of my 3 sons, 12, 10 and 6 talk at least English with them at home, not even when I was with them!

They both put the boys in Private schools and think that will do the trick from alone.

The outcome, the boy who talks the best English is the youngest, whom I did not order by force, same him mother wanted,

even under heavy tears, to go in Kindergarten,

She chose the Private Kindergarten-school which includes the necessity, to use a school bus at 6:20 AM in the morning and come back with that bus at 5:40 PM in the late afternoon, nearly 12 hours away!!! I said, "Only if h likes to do that harsh trip with 4-5 years young!

I let him decide and so, after some weeks he decided not to go,

but instead spent a lot of hours every day together with him. But he made the necessary tests to qualify for the chosen school.

The older brother asks him for translations.

Discipline, a bit, I could achieve, but regular feeding, eating times, ect. NO!

At least the first Gf had some common sense regarding our boy who grew to a very nice one, only sorry, that I not see him often,

as the betrayals and lies, by this Ex Gf, special regarding money, to me, evolved to a war like conflict!

The second and current Gf has only time for her dice game. (High-Low)

And it needed some time until she stopped to throw rubbish just out of the first floor sleeping room windows. "Can clean later!"

Yes, after the wind and the dogs spread the "throw away" in the whole garden! OMG.

Children used the behavior from Mama for long time as an excuse for the same habit!

Alfredo.

You expect your Thai wife to speak English with your kids.

Well, you need your head read.

Silly remark.

If you would have read his post and used, not too much though, some imagination your remark would be different. Most likely he is not from an english speaking country....

So what he means is that he tried to stop the mothers speaking English with his kids? Well if so, that's excellent, but what he wrote had completely the opposite meaning.

And just to be sure, it is not recommended for non native speakers to teach a language at home of there is a native speaker around.

Why would I teach my kids Thai, and vice versa with my missus. My wife barely ever speaks english to the kids and that is just recently. I have never spoken Thai to them.

Result. Bilingual children. Simple.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[benalibina]

I am not Don Quixote, who dared to fight against spinning Windmills and lost of course. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote

So, I have given up, to influence the mighty tide here in Isaan and so, I go with the wording, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do!"

I could not influence, that my 2 Thai mothers of my 3 sons, 12, 10 and 6 talk at least English with them at home, not even when I was with them!

They both put the boys in Private schools and think that will do the trick from alone.

The outcome, the boy who talks the best English is the youngest, whom I did not order by force, same him mother wanted,

even under heavy tears, to go in Kindergarten,

She chose the Private Kindergarten-school which includes the necessity, to use a school bus at 6:20 AM in the morning and come back with that bus at 5:40 PM in the late afternoon, nearly 12 hours away!!! I said, "Only if h likes to do that harsh trip with 4-5 years young!

I let him decide and so, after some weeks he decided not to go,

but instead spent a lot of hours every day together with him. But he made the necessary tests to qualify for the chosen school.

The older brother asks him for translations.

Discipline, a bit, I could achieve, but regular feeding, eating times, ect. NO!

At least the first Gf had some common sense regarding our boy who grew to a very nice one, only sorry, that I not see him often,

as the betrayals and lies, by this Ex Gf, special regarding money, to me, evolved to a war like conflict!

The second and current Gf has only time for her dice game. (High-Low)

And it needed some time until she stopped to throw rubbish just out of the first floor sleeping room windows. "Can clean later!"

Yes, after the wind and the dogs spread the "throw away" in the whole garden! OMG.

Children used the behavior from Mama for long time as an excuse for the same habit!

Alfredo.

You expect your Thai wife to speak English with your kids.

Well, you need your head read.

Silly remark.

If you would have read his post and used, not too much though, some imagination your remark would be different. Most likely he is not from an english speaking country....

So what he means is that he tried to stop the mothers speaking English with his kids? Well if so, that's excellent, but what he wrote had completely the opposite meaning.

And just to be sure, it is not recommended for non native speakers to teach a language at home of there is a native speaker around.

Why would I teach my kids Thai, and vice versa with my missus. My wife barely ever speaks english to the kids and that is just recently. I have never spoken Thai to them.

Result. Bilingual children. Simple.

Ok. I will try to explain for you.

Based on reading his comment, things are not well in relation to kids and mother(s). My guess is that he is not a native speaker of the english language. Therefore i guess too that he speaks his native language to his kids. Most likely mixed with some english. In Thailand apart from thai language, english is the most important 2nd language. I assume that poster speaks english with his wife, maybe some thai 2. So therefore it is not so unreasonable for him to ask that the mother(s) of his kids, occasionally at least, speak english to the kids. This is better as well for the kids. Tri lingual kids

It is much easier for english native speakers as english is the nr 1 language in the world.

Again....i dont know if it is correct. Only my assumption.

[ABCer]

Let me see if I got it right, OP.

You married a Thai.

You have a Thai child.

You live in Thailand.

You are away working hard.

And you are not happy with child becoming a Thai?

What did you expect?

What are you going to do about it?

Do you have a close family outside?

Is it possible to send child away to your parents?

It is a complicated situation.

[JenniferSG]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am a working dad but I still make time for my kids. Yes I am the breadwinner but to have that ancient Neanderthal opinion that the wife takes care of the kids is your first and biggest mistake. My eldest(4yr old) has at least 30 minutes with me after work no matter how tired I am. We play or talk about what she did today and then we put her to bed and I read her a story. She loves the fairy tales and it gets her excited about going to bed. She gets a quota every day of iPhone games or tv and when that's done she gets Lego or other items that work her brain.
No way we would let her be a couch potatoe. My wife is a typical Thai that loves her tv and iPhone but she knows the kids come first. Our newborn will be brought up the same way.
It's not easy believe me there are tantrums at times when tv has to go off but that's the nature of being a family.
If your mother in law is making things difficult then tell your wife to step in. Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TV is one of the worst things possible for young people because of the addictive factor. I was lucky in that there wasn't any TV when I was a child.

When I was in a relationship with a woman with children I got so PO with the kid just watching TV all his spare time that I only allowed him 2 shows a day and then the tv was off. Also, he couldn't use it at all from after school till 5 pm. Even if he went round to his friends to watch, at least he was with someone else, and not just on his own.

These days of course, it's the computer- even worse for a young developing mind.

Kids should be playing, not stuck to a screen.

I couldn't agree more. TV, ipads, other glowing screens are not good for your child's development. Math games, reading, music lessons (especially music) all help to create neural pathways which make them better learners as they get older. Even infants who cannot yet speak are creating pathways to learning and interpreting information based on their human interactions and stimuli. Parking the kid in front of an electronic babysitter is not good for him, nor do I think it's The Thai Way unless that way was created with the advent of television.

[soalbundy]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am a working dad but I still make time for my kids. Yes I am the breadwinner but to have that ancient Neanderthal opinion that the wife takes care of the kids is your first and biggest mistake. My eldest(4yr old) has at least 30 minutes with me after work no matter how tired I am. We play or talk about what she did today and then we put her to bed and I read her a story. She loves the fairy tales and it gets her excited about going to bed. She gets a quota every day of iPhone games or tv and when that's done she gets Lego or other items that work her brain.

No way we would let her be a couch potatoe. My wife is a typical Thai that loves her tv and iPhone but she knows the kids come first. Our newborn will be brought up the same way.

It's not easy believe me there are tantrums at times when tv has to go off but that's the nature of being a family.

If your mother in law is making things difficult then tell your wife to step in. Good luck

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TV is one of the worst things possible for young people because of the addictive factor. I was lucky in that there wasn't any TV when I was a child.

When I was in a relationship with a woman with children I got so PO with the kid just watching TV all his spare time that I only allowed him 2 shows a day and then the tv was off. Also, he couldn't use it at all from after school till 5 pm. Even if he went round to his friends to watch, at least he was with someone else, and not just on his own.

These days of course, it's the computer- even worse for a young developing mind.

Kids should be playing, not stuck to a screen.

I couldn't agree more. TV, ipads, other glowing screens are not good for your child's development. Math games, reading, music lessons (especially music) all help to create neural pathways which make them better learners as they get older. Even infants who cannot yet speak are creating pathways to learning and interpreting information based on their human interactions and stimuli. Parking the kid in front of an electronic babysitter is not good for him, nor do I think it's The Thai Way unless that way was created with the advent of television.

True, but TV is still the number one baby sitter in the west although i pads are taking over

[ttthailand]

I suggest talking to your wife and MIL about how you think your child should be raised and try to make the changes slowly. Make a schedule but know right now that it is only a suggestion and subject to change.

It is not as easy as you think to raise a child as they are not machines. They get bored, angry, hungry, sleepy, sick, playful ... Etc . You think you got it all figured out and then for some reason they change over night... Tooth coming in... Hahaha.

One thing for sure is to get them out of your bed now. Bad to start the habit. They will cry and fuss for a week so let the wife and MIL know the plan now and what to expect. They will want to go hold the little one but you need to take charge and tell them to take a walk and you will handle it, if you can .. Hahaha.

Don't get angry and try to smile as much as possible. The school idea sounds good if you can afford a good place that is safe. Good luck .. Keep smiling !!!

[bowerboy]

Thanks again for all the thoughts and responses and they are all very useful. Apologies that I cant respond to all of them.

I have been to my wifes village a few times and it is lovely..surrounded by fields and very picturesque. However when I ask here what she used to do every day in her childhood the answer was "stay home and watch cartoons". Now I know this is a broad generalistion but my strong feeling is that most kids from her background would give you the exact same answer which comes probably as a result of poor/lazy paraenting. Lets also be honest here and when you ask these kind of girls (box standard office worker type) what they do on the weekend its always the same response "sleep, watch tv, clean my room"...you never hear them talk about hobbies or activities they are involved in.

When we were kids we were kicked out of the house at 8am and not allowed back in until we had scrapes on our knees and were covered in mud (we lived near the countryside in a not disimilar equivalent to what Roi Et would be).

I do understand it is very hot to play outside here but still...

[hopdafru]

I am not legally married, but we have been together six years and have a 4 years old daughter.

I return to England a lot on business.

Our daughter developed some asthma like symptoms whilst I was away and needed hospitalisation. This cost.

The day before I left last time I gave her (my common law) twenty thousand baht on top of my usual imput to look after the little girl should she fall ill again.

She immediately went out and bought herself a gold ring at 18,500 baht. I guess to show off to her friends and family.

When I played up she cried and I fell for it dousing my anger and accepting it without mentioning it again.

I emphasise with the OP and am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I may have to, somehow, put more into the raising of my child. Income is necessary though.

There is such a massive gap in the Thai thinking to our Western ways. All is not bad of course but some mystifies me to distraction yet we will never win.

I'm not sure in which direction the gap is but perhaps your lady simply thought wearing the money was better and gold could be resold any time to pay for your childs care (in addition to expected 'higher' status as she is with falang and possible gain from resell value)

in any case I believe it was a smart move and a guarantee the money would be available in case of emergency instead of being spent over time, in the interest of the child vs. temptation to spend the cash.

Maybe you should ask your lady what her intention was when she bought the ring, as we sometimes have difficulty understanding / translating ones actions and often being mistaken given the huge difference in culture.

my 2 kip worth ;-)

[art vandelay]

children need a routine and should be stimulated in educational activities by their parents. fact. i'm not sure the problems you describe are particularly thai, but possibly are more prevalent here

[fletchsmile]

Great thread and nice post from OP. I can relate to a lot of that. Great conversation topic for down the pub as well, so I wouldn't underestimate sounding out a few mates how they go on - let off some steam and exchange thoughts at the same time.

Just to share a few thoughts from over the years:

Neither way is completely right or wrong. What you think is right your other half may think is wrong. Tough going at times, but stick with it and over time you get to understand each other's point of view better.

People are different. Obviously your average Thai is different from your average foreigner, but even that aside what "works" for others may not work for you. Your kids will be different to other kids. Your strengths and weaknesses are different to other parents strengths and weaknesses.

Thais are often by nature reactive whereas foreigners think ahead more. Result is that Thais are often better at living in the moment but less good at planning the future and cause and effect. Both have pros and cons. Thais may enjoy the present more in some ways but are less proficient in setting and attaining goals. It's no coincidence historically many people have a place in Thai society and are stuck with it, or just accept it.

Neither of you has all the answers to this. Kids come with a blank instruction manual so you naturally tend to base your parenting on how you were brought up, or in some cases try and correct the mistakes you think your parents made, but the reference point is your upbringing. Hers is her upbringing.

I found in the first couple of years I just had to let my wife do things her way.Several reasons for that including my workload was heavy and I was often home late, and tired even when home. Sure you can change your job, but that can't easily be done overnight, especially if you want to maintain financial security. Starting a new business or finding a new job might be nice theories but are much harder in reality for most people. In many ways you don't want to be adding too much change on the job front anyway as that can add stress to already stressful changes in your life - better the devil you know. That said in the last few years I have taken time out of work (over a year) to spend time with the kids, and taken positions I enjoy more which give a better work life balance albeit for less money. I can afford to put time with family before earning money now, but that's not always been the case.

In the first couple of years a lot of a baby/ child's needs revolve around basic functions. Basically my wife was better at dealing with those. Sure I can change the odd nappy, but can't breast feed. I found it was when the kids started to talk that my parenting skills came into their own, when I could actually talk to the kids and reason with them. As they have become older I have been much more active in how they have been brought up. I don't need to ask my wife to do something I tell them direct.

To be honest there are some things full stop my wife is better than me at, and vice versa. Part of it is playing to each others strengths.

In reality it sounds like OP does need to take a bigger role in the upbringing. As they get older this gets more possible as you can talk to them about expectations. As someone mentioned above though, you and your wife need to back each other up at least in front of the kids as to "right and wrong". Basically if you want to have changes you are going to have to be proactive and take charge.

Telling your wife what she is doing wrong or what she could better didn't work that well for me. Thais can be very proud and not open to criticism. Better to let her raise something, or even ask is there anything she'd like to improve with her life or wants to change. Then offer a solution.

Over time my wife has learnt and tended more towards western behaviour and is more critical of the Thai way. I think that's just experience and maturity. Living overseas for a while helped. Also I'll freely admit some of my views have become a bit more Thai too, and I've learnt more what to give ground on and what not.

Choose very carefully which "battles you are going to fight". The most important I found and the ones I am least likely to compromise on were:

- Saying "no" to the kids. My wife and Thai relatives would hardly ever do this. As they grew older it gets harder to say no and get them to realise you mean it. Took my wife a while to realise this. With me the kids know no = no (usually) and acting up throwing tantrums or whatever doesn't work. They do it a few times then realise it doesn't work so stop. With my wife they used to know they could get what they want. She's better at it, but even now out shopping she finds it hard to say no and will call me up. I strongly believe on this one if people had told many of the Thais like Thaksin and other people in society "no, when they were little they wouldn't have grown up to be such spoiled brats used to their own way. The inability to say no is a failing of many parts of Thai society

- Boundaries are another. I'm not a big fan as an adult. But kids need them. I feel lucky being brought up with them. As an adult I can choose to apply them or not. On the other hand Thai society allows people to grow up thinking corruption is OK if you benefit, never mind about the traffic rules you can bribe some one, if you are bigger or have money you don't have to worry about the law etc etc. It's hard to teach someone whose grown up without boundaries the importance of them and the negative impacts on society, on the other hand its much easier to be brought up with them and then choose. Compared to your average Thai I feel very lucky at the way I was brought up.

- Sleep/ bed time. Love is obviously the most important thing you can give your kids. But everyone getting the right amount of sleep is not far behind. So many reasons for that. Also don't underestimate the impact on your wife and you, not just the kids.

Those are probably 3 of the big ones to focus on. Probably another one after that is learning to bite your tongue

In terms of the parents living with you: you either need to put your foot down or shut up and take it. Either way you need to make a choice. For me I made very clear I don't want relatives living with us permanently all the time. I've always tried to welcome family and never made time constraints but always made clear it is only temporary, whether a few days or a few months. After that I expect them to leave. In your case (everyone is different) but I would be having a conversation with my wife saying when will be MIL be moving on. If she can't broach the subject with her mum, then you may have to. Along the lines of thank you very much for your help, we really appreciate it, but I think it's time for us to spend time on our own now/soon. Of course you're welcome to visit and we want you to, but... If you have to say you'd like to get back to a more western way. Say anything politely, any excuse but put your foot down.

Similarly, as for unwanted visitors at all hours, I might let it go the first time. After that I'd have no problems picking the kids up taking them to the bedroom and putting them to sleep. Telling other people not to disturb them please etc. My home, my rules. Unfair to ask your wife to do these things and put her in the middle. But if it's important to you, you need to sort it out. Even to the extent of taking a baby off someone to put to bed. With all this stuff there are always exceptions, and some flexibility is needed. If I've an old relative who has little time left or someone has come hundreds of miles who normally never sees them OK I don't mind making it a "special occasion" or "one-off". Basically I'd like to be liked by the family but given a choice I'd rather do something I think is right for the kids and be unpopular. Besides I've found most family to be reasonable in respecting my way is different. I can always offer that as an excuse too. Apologise, and say sorry to do this, but it's the foreigners way and then go ahead. The main other exception to this is when in someone else's house or vsiting someone else - we then try and fit in with their rules to an extent.

Another way I found the Thai doesn't work too well is when you don't have extended support. My wife was excellent at giving 24/7 attention to every need of a baby. I don't think that's right, but that was her way. Unfortunately with a second baby you can't give both babies everything they want all the time. That's when I feel the boundaries and schedules kick in. That's when my wife started realising more that the western way of routines can have advantages and be practical. Saying "no" was another big milestone she learnt.

We started the first girl at pre-school around 2 like your doing. Great idea for socialising, giving your wife a break (especially if she's the 24/7 attention to every child need type and now has 2). great for routines too. School does have some downsides though. If in a Thai school there's more pressure to re-inforce some of the Thai norms you dislike (and strengthen the positive ones), if an international school they unfortunately interact with hiso people with a sense of entitlement which can reinforce the idea boundaries don't need to apply to me. To be fair there are some decent middle class and even hiso Thais, but I'd prefer a more international balance.

As you summed up though, it's hard not to draw the conclusion about which prepares them best for the future, for choices, etc. You can't protect everything, but I do feel in many ways it has been easier for me to adapt to Thailand than for Thais to adapt to outside Thailand. Bringing up your kids the Thai way prepares them well for Thailand, perhaps even better than the western way. On the other hand the western way has prepared more westerners for life outside their own country than the Thai way has. I'm convinced the international or westerner ubringing on the whole will lead to better/ more choices on average. You only have to look where you came from, and compare the choices you have in Thailand to the choices an average Thai would have in your country (many of them will never even be lucky enough to even get there, let alone think about setting up a life there)

BTW If you'd like a beer any time that would make a nice circle to where I started my post (longer than expected but on a great subject) ...

Best Wishes

Fletch

Edited April 29, 2014 by fletchsmile

[laolover88]

Really interesting!

Where are you? Makes a lot of difference to what might be on offer outside the house!

You got friends with other kids?

I pretty much educated and played in any available moment with our kids from the moment they were born,. I had to endure such things as: "Why do you talk to them?"They can't talk" , through "Thai children don't need toys", to "Thai people don't pick their children up" and " I don't read to them because I am not a teacher"....I think you have to be clear about what future you want for them. I was/am determined that they are fluent in reading/writing speaking both Thai and English....in order to achieve the Thai they were sent to tutors..in order to achieve the latter I took them to the UK.........I would not worry too much about what happens when you are not there; but I would ensure on a daily basis that your son knows what you expect from him...and it is difficult without undermining the mother...........good luck!!

[marko kok prong]

if it is really driving you insane,then just go insane,everything becomes so much easier after that.

[Skeetjones]

Lol if you have a Thai kid in Thailand raised by Thai his Thai mom and grandma, he's going to be Thai and acting Thai no matter what goes on.

My daughter is raised the same way. Why is that? Because I'm not around. Same shit

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[StreetCowboy]

Perhaps the OP was British, or Swiss, or Puerto Rican, and was worried about having a British, Swiss or Puerto Rican (as approrpiate) child raised in Thailand by Thai relatives in the Thai style

SC

[BKK Blues Brother]

^ Thank's for clarity.

If your not happy then DIY

BBB

[bowerboy]

Thanks for the excellent post Fletch (Maia Spirit Member), much appreciated. You make a lot of sense.

[Beechboy]

I am not legally married, but we have been together six years and have a 4 years old daughter.

I return to England a lot on business.

Our daughter developed some asthma like symptoms whilst I was away and needed hospitalisation. This cost.

The day before I left last time I gave her (my common law) twenty thousand baht on top of my usual imput to look after the little girl should she fall ill again.

She immediately went out and bought herself a gold ring at 18,500 baht. I guess to show off to her friends and family.

When I played up she cried and I fell for it dousing my anger and accepting it without mentioning it again.

I emphasise with the OP and am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I may have to, somehow, put more into the raising of my child. Income is necessary though.

There is such a massive gap in the Thai thinking to our Western ways. All is not bad of course but some mystifies me to distraction yet we will never win.

I'm not sure in which direction the gap is but perhaps your lady simply thought wearing the money was better and gold could be resold any time to pay for your childs care (in addition to expected 'higher' status as she is with falang and possible gain from resell value)

in any case I believe it was a smart move and a guarantee the money would be available in case of emergency instead of being spent over time, in the interest of the child vs. temptation to spend the cash.

Maybe you should ask your lady what her intention was when she bought the ring, as we sometimes have difficulty understanding / translating ones actions and often being mistaken given the huge difference in culture.

my 2 kip worth ;-)

Actually you echo exactly what she said in explanation ie. I can cash it in if needed,

She does have her own bank account though and the jeweller will need their percentage.

It is somewhat an old fashioned concept to collect gold though surely .... gold teeth etc.Using the mouth as a bank somewhat.

Thanks anyhow. Perhaps gap was the wrong word to use and 'difference' is far more apt. Not complaining really, just accepting that it is a continuous learning process.

[rayongchelsea]

The gold thing is nonsense.

It should have been put in the bank as directed..not a one sided decision by the mother. Does she ignore all input from the father..

You don't buy gold to possibly sell it tomorrow. It's a complete show off thing nothing more nothing less.

More excuses for differences..that's not a difference that is just doing what the mother wanted.

Why didn't she ask if it is ok to the buy gold? The answer is obvious.

Too many guys interpret stuff to avoid the obvious ..they make excuses for the wife's action.

Clearly the op is an intelligent father..and has rationalized the situation..he really knows what he needs to do.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[enuff said]

.

Gold is a pretty good investment these days....

just sayin'

~