Thai opposition urges PM to resign, refuses to back poll

[mikemac]

........................." Lets have an election. Because there is nothing to fix..............................................................."

[Piichai]

Yes fly the plane and when it breaks you make improvements this is how the Wright brothers finally got off the ground!!!

You design the plane and test it and keep testing all the things that break and then you reinvent these parts and make them better. You are familiar with prototypes and final production models?

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

They had an election a couple years ago, and just look at the mess PTP made. It's now time to, as you say, reinvent those parts and make them better.

By mess, you mean all time stock-market peak, booming economy, nearly had the Senate reformed to be elected and democratic again, nearly had the high speed trains in progress that have been promised by the Democrats, very high growth rate and a massive influx of investment...

Good luck with that election and your policies. Whatever they may be.

If you had bothered to check, you would have found Abhisit responsible for Thailand's stock market boom; Yingluck derailed it.

Booming economy? Just ask the starving farmers.

The farmers almost got paid.

The children almost got tablets.

Bangkok almost got washed away in the flood.

And Yingluck almost got away with it!

[3NUMBAS]

the elitists army of greedy thugs desperately want to get back into power by desperate measures

[BlueNoseCodger]

Yes fly the plane and when it breaks you make improvements this is how the Wright brothers finally got off the ground!!!

You design the plane and test it and keep testing all the things that break and then you reinvent these parts and make them better. You are familiar with prototypes and final production models?

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

They had an election a couple years ago, and just look at the mess PTP made. It's now time to, as you say, reinvent those parts and make them better.

By mess, you mean all time stock-market peak, booming economy, nearly had the Senate reformed to be elected and democratic again, nearly had the high speed trains in progress that have been promised by the Democrats, very high growth rate and a massive influx of investment...

Good luck with that election and your policies. Whatever they may be.

If you had bothered to check, you would have found Abhisit responsible for Thailand's stock market boom; Yingluck derailed it.

Booming economy? Just ask the starving farmers.

The farmers almost got paid.

The children almost got tablets.

Bangkok almost got washed away in the flood.

And Yingluck almost got away with it!

thailand-stock-market.png

Happy for you, you see the peak? Thats Yingluk, you see the drop at the end? That Suthep & Abhisit.

Starving farmers? If only those farmers had some way of making food! Perhaps you should run for election and see how many farmers you fooled,

Tablets for Children, I look forward to reading your manifesto on what you plan there.

Bangkok floods, yes I'd forgotten how well she did with that. She averted flooding, worked well with the army and navy, yep, another plus.

I look forward to Abhisit 'flood plan', I bet it will be something like: My Plan By Mark Age 9 : appoint a committee to make a plan...

[Hardy99]

Abhist really struggles to extract himself from a solution that doesn't involve him being appointed PM. What a waste of space this clown is. For a brief moment you hoped he was thinking about Thailand and not about himself and his narrow band of elitist bosses.

Let's face it, he's too scared to stand.

Stand against who ??? in due course there will be no one to vote for when the courts have dismissed most of them and the party they represent, so I say wait and time will tell us the good time for fair elections with reforms already in place.

My idea of fair elections and democratic government. Fresh faces clean credentials, new start for Thailand. We do not need all this crap going on.

sounds good the fresh faces, democratic government, fair elections, clean credentials... but what Abhisit has to due with such idea..??

He is not democratic, not fresh face, not at all fair.. and had 2 years got good Money for doing nothing then serve the elites...

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

But pretty much as expected, same thing:

1. Yingluk must resign, so we put in a neutral PM, chosen by the Partisan Senate we now control.

2. Rig the Parliament the way we rigged the Senate so we control it.

3. Hold elections if you agree to this in a referendum.

4. Refuse to hold elections if you don't agree in the referendum.

And we can't tell you how we're going to rig the parliament till after we've taken power (which means Thai people would never accept it, if they were told, so they need control of the military to fight the civil war that would ensue).

"Yingluck should make the sacrifice of withdrawing from power,"

Man, I had my bet on him saying "for the good of the people", damn. Instead he went for the "sacrifice" angle.

Simple in business if you mismanage --you are out.

You are taking about a government that is out of favour only--this is not the case---recognize it.

if you plunder you do not ask to be reinstated, you know your days are numbered---LEAVE get out save face.

Isn't that the point of having elections is to replace an alleged failed government with a more promising one? But the party that promises to be a better manager of government must convince the electorate of its creditability to deliver on those promises. Suthep's by his adamant refusal to participate in an open and free election unless its completely on his terms and conditions, and by his own ruinous performance as Deputy PM will hinder such creditability.

[ianf]

Abhist really struggles to extract himself from a solution that doesn't involve him being appointed PM. What a waste of space this clown is. For a brief moment you hoped he was thinking about Thailand and not about himself and his narrow band of elitist bosses.

Let's face it, he's too scared to stand.

No more of a clown than you Snig. Do you really understand Thai politics? Do you know Abhisit? Is your opinion based on prejudice, knowledge or what? Have you any inside knowledge. Tell me, how did you come to this conclusion?

Edited May 3, 2014 by ianf

[BlueNoseCodger]

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But pretty much as expected, same thing:

1. Yingluk must resign, so we put in a neutral PM, chosen by the Partisan Senate we now control.

2. Rig the Parliament the way we rigged the Senate so we control it.

3. Hold elections if you agree to this in a referendum.

4. Refuse to hold elections if you don't agree in the referendum.

And we can't tell you how we're going to rig the parliament till after we've taken power (which means Thai people would never accept it, if they were told, so they need control of the military to fight the civil war that would ensue).

"Yingluck should make the sacrifice of withdrawing from power,"

Man, I had my bet on him saying "for the good of the people", damn. Instead he went for the "sacrifice" angle.

Simple in business if you mismanage --you are out.

You are taking about a government that is out of favour only--this is not the case---recognize it.

if you plunder you do not ask to be reinstated, you know your days are numbered---LEAVE get out save face.

Isn't that the point of having elections is to replace an alleged failed government with a more promising one? But the party that promises to be a better manager of government must convince the electorate of its creditability to deliver on those promises. Suthep's by his adamant refusal to participate in an open and free election unless its completely on his terms and conditions, and by his own ruinous performance as Deputy PM will hinder such creditability.

Well if it took him 10 days to write a 9 point plan that's copied from Sutheps, to actually write a full manifesto with ideas and words and numbers and stuff would be like 2-3 years. So of course he needs the elections delayed!

[ginjag]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

But pretty much as expected, same thing:

1. Yingluk must resign, so we put in a neutral PM, chosen by the Partisan Senate we now control.

2. Rig the Parliament the way we rigged the Senate so we control it.

3. Hold elections if you agree to this in a referendum.

4. Refuse to hold elections if you don't agree in the referendum.

And we can't tell you how we're going to rig the parliament till after we've taken power (which means Thai people would never accept it, if they were told, so they need control of the military to fight the civil war that would ensue).

"Yingluck should make the sacrifice of withdrawing from power,"

Man, I had my bet on him saying "for the good of the people", damn. Instead he went for the "sacrifice" angle.

Simple in business if you mismanage --you are out.

You are taking about a government that is out of favour only--this is not the case---recognize it.

if you plunder you do not ask to be reinstated, you know your days are numbered---LEAVE get out save face.

Isn't that the point of having elections is to replace an alleged failed government with a more promising one? But the party that promises to be a better manager of government must convince the electorate of its creditability to deliver on those promises. Suthep's by his adamant refusal to participate in an open and free election unless its completely on his terms and conditions, and by his own ruinous performance as Deputy PM will hinder such creditability.

The point of elections is to get chance of a change every 4 years, or if your good retain your government or call elections to re claim you credibility if found to be un popular etc.

NOT to have a RE ELECTION because you ran a corrupt unlawful at times government. under immense scrutiny over abuse of power etc.

This is the situation now. NO PARTY ON EARTH should have a second bite of the cherry in this situ.

Until reforms are taken to prevent anyone staging a charade like this again.

Not until this happens when stringent penalties imposed on any offender thereafter is elections possible.

pro gov magnificent 7 this is the only way out of this mess. Please note I haven't mentioned Suthep or the Dems, just logic for a better Thailand.

[MaxLee]

........................." Lets have an election. Because there is nothing to fix..............................................................."

You hit the nail in the coffin, Thailand is CURSED with ELECTION-COLLECTION aka THAKSINOCRACY-MANIPULATED-RIGGED-VOTE-BUYING-CORRUPTION for eternity....

[mikemac]

Happy for you, you see the peak? Thats Yingluk, you see the drop at the end? That Suthep & Abhisit.

Starving farmers? If only those farmers had some way of making food! Perhaps you should run for election and see how many farmers you fooled,

Tablets for Children, I look forward to reading your manifesto on what you plan there.

Bangkok floods, yes I'd forgotten how well she did with that. She averted flooding, worked well with the army and navy, yep, another plus.

I look forward to Abhisit 'flood plan', I bet it will be something like: My Plan By Mark Age 9 : appoint a committee to make a plan...

How very sad. He has run out of bullets and now when he pulls the trigger instead of going BANG ! it just goes click click click.

It is usually at this point in the movie that the bad guy looks at his gun in disgust and throws it at the good guy.

Give it away bluey, you are just annoying people now, not even funny anymore.

[ChrisY1]

I'm guessing Mark had a lot of help from mommy and daddy in getting him into Oxford, he doesn't seem all that bright.

Who cares...at least he's one of the very few in any party with some semblance of higher education......maybe you prefer the Chalerm style of pollie??

[WoopyDoo]

Well it looks like thailand will be going back in years to the year 2010 when there was an APPOINTED PM instead of elected.

Well I would much rather see a few months of an appointed PM as opposed to a civil war, coup or yet another undemocratic election in a long line of undemocratic elections rife with ballot rigging, intimidation, vote buying, campaign blocking and corruption.

The red followers on here actually make Abhisit look 'years ahead' with his proposals, which I personally find more than acceptable considering the situation we are already in..... Thanks to the Thaksin regime.

[Piichai]

Happy for you, you see the peak? Thats Yingluk, you see the drop at the end? That Suthep & Abhisit.

Starving farmers? If only those farmers had some way of making food! Perhaps you should run for election and see how many farmers you fooled,

Tablets for Children, I look forward to reading your manifesto on what you plan there.

Bangkok floods, yes I'd forgotten how well she did with that. She averted flooding, worked well with the army and navy, yep, another plus.

I look forward to Abhisit 'flood plan', I bet it will be something like: My Plan By Mark Age 9 : appoint a committee to make a plan...

Your lies are shameful.

The timing of the downward trend is due to Moody's cautions. People do read that stuff and act accordingly. Investors won't soon forget Yingluck driving Thailand's rice exporting status down to third place, or how she killed the golden goose of tourism by mismanaging the peaceful protests.

Yingluck didn't avert floooding. She ordered the floodgates open, and Sukhumbhand refused.

And the tablets... Well, that was another one of Yingluck's failed ideas. Surprised you didn't hear about it; after all, it was in *all* the papers.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Piichai

[See the bears]

This sack-less wonder is an embarrassment. Trying to create suspense and intrigue, to get himself in the spotlight. And then he comes out & simply echoes the mad rantings of Sutwerp. What minimal credibility this cretin had is now completely gone. God save the country if somehow their foul plan actually works & they cause a civil war.

[rabas]

Pathetic. If that's your best, Mr Abhisit, it's time to pass the baton on to someone who can make a meaningful, worthwhile contribution. Woeful 'plan'. A joke.

I await with baited breath for your own sensible suggestions as to how to resolve all of this.

And please, let's assume the word "election" isn't your only or first answer to any and all problems.

Lets have an election.

Because there is nothing to fix, political division is what democracy is. If you had no political division, then there would be no choice, no opposing views to choose from and no options. The idea that we all live in a harmony where we skip and dance and play and all think alike, is utter rubbish fantasyland thinking.

Abhisit and Suthep cannot agree on the way to choose a PM. Abhisit says he wants the Senate Leader to pick a PM, Suthep says he wants Suthep to pick a PM. It's normal for people to disagree. Even these two sock puppets for the general cannot agree!

And from your words you seem to refuse to accept that an election is the cure. If you had an infection, would you be saying "and please don't tell me antibiotics is your only fix" and then refuse the medicine?

No, democracy has nothing to do with division of the people. Democracy is rule by the people, all the people, for the betterment of the whole. Voting and other 'democratic' mechanisms are the primitive tools used to try and get a democracy to work in spite of human nature.

And no, opposing views, options, and choices do not require division. You do have one thing right, without division and hatred, politicians of today would have little appeal to the populous. That's why they teach it so often.

Modern forms of democracy have been called the worst possible form of government, except all others that have been tried. Winston Churchill once said the best argument against democracy was a 5 minute conversation with the average voter.

He could have saved about 4 minutes and 59 seconds here on TV.

[gabruce]

Well, the plan is out now. Abhisit should have been calling for discussions with the PDRC/PCAD and the PTP/Government to see if changes to the proposal would be acceptable (now that both parties have rejected it out of hand).

My thoughts are:

1) Why shouldn't an election and referendum on a reform proposal go ahead concurrently. Cut the time frame down to 4 months.

2) He puts the reform proposal in the hands of those who are agitating for reform. Adds in a democratic referendum.

3) Suggesting Yingluck step down along with her cabinet so the Senate can ask for royal approval of a "neutral caretaker cabinet and prime minister". That's the big one and the PTP won't like it. They probably prefer to take their chances with the courts and then ask royal approval for a new PTP caretaker cabinet and prime minister themselves if the cases go against YS.

4) EC procedure/rule reform now. Details would be good to hear from the EC.

Something that none of the pro-government/election-now supporters should have been reasonably happy with was having an elected government in 6 months to handle the reform process.

If anyone is interested in negotation and compromise, perhaps they could agree on a "neutral caretaker group".

It really is a good idea to try to resolve the current situation.

[rebelplatoon]

People don t seem to understand that Abhisit s idea of NOT running for election is still part of this. One might think that -in order to move things forward- YL Sae Khu might step back a bit to clear the way for the necessary changes, to be voted on by all involved. Then have proper elections ASAP.

[Thai at Heart]

Nothing original here. It just puts Suthep plan on paper.

It is a little like the 2007 referendum. If the people don't vote for the reforms, then what happens next?

So, it is not a democratic solution, but once again, something that will be delivered as a fait accompli. They have made a pigs ear of this.

It is now the case that only a committee.is allowed to modify the constitution. The parliament can't do it but a committee can. What an unholy mess. Thailand democracy is like some still born abomination on the floor.

Did you miss the part of a referendum? The Constitution Court ruled that's the way to amend the constitution.

Then how come the democrats modified the constituencies.

It was actually judged the unjudged u can do it bit by bit.

[rubl]

Well it looks like thailand will be going back in years to the year 2010 when there was an APPOINTED PM instead of elected.

Actually most seem to agree that k. Abhisit got to be elected as PM by his fellow MPs in a manner similar to his predecessors, the late Samak and the illustrious Somchai. Even Ms. Yingluck was 'appointed' in a similar fashion.

[WoopyDoo]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's accpetance make it legal?

It wouldn't, he wants her to resign so he can do a section 180 and remove the interim government. The so called "create a power vacuum" demand from Suthep.

Section 180. Ministers vacate office en masse upon:

(1) the termination of ministership of the Prime Minister under section 182;

The Senate is half appointed and in power. The appointment committee for the senate is controlled by their man. Giving them a rigged Senate.

And the Independent agencies are chosen by this rigged senate.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

So without a government in power, who would appoint an interim PM? The only people around are the Senate, and now they control the Senate leader Abhisit says Senate Leader will choose (based on no legal basis at all). i.e. their man chooses the PM with a fake veneer of independence.

It's clear when he says that after she's resigned and they have power, only then will they discuss what reforms to do. The big thing that power gives them is control of the military. The problem with this coup, is the generals just don't want to go on a kill spree like 2010. So they've been reluctant all along. With Prayuth being the man on the fence. Abhisit/Suthep backer lost influence over the military.

The independent agencies are afraid of removing a government of the people on the excuse of "they moved a civil servant", or "they voted to make the senate elected" etc. Without the military to protect them, they are afraid their lies will land them in jail or worse.

So Abhisit wants control of the military, and that re-establishes control of the independent agencies, and have enough fire power to support a judicial coup. He will have to rig the Parliament and Government to regain power in any future elected government, that will inevitably lead to large scale protests, and in turn he needs to be able to do a military crackdown.

I'm mentioned this before, a coup of a minority over a majority requires the minority have enough weapons to cover the kill ratio. So a coup of 10k people can overpower a population of 100k, but only if they have 10 times or greater the killing power. That needs a well armed army, with willing soldiers and in turn that needs him to grab power and control of that army.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

Now that is the part that really hurts, as he was a known Shinawatra lackey, isn't it.

I met Nikom at a very large party of Democrat MPs, former Democrat MPs including Suthep, and Senators, 3 weeks before he took office. The fact that he spent most of his time with the Democrat Party led BMA, I always consider him to be a Democrat Party lackey not a Thaksin go for.

Secondly he told me 3 weeks before the Senate was to vote for a new leader, that he was the new Senate Leader, in other words it was a rigged vote. Aphiset's idea that the Senate can appoint a neutral PM is therefore a joke since the vote will also be rigged.

I met Nikom at a very large party of Democrat MPs, former Democrat MPs including Suthep,

Secondly he told me 3 weeks before the Senate was to vote for a new leader, that he was the new Senate Leader,

OMG!!!!!!!

And of course you are????

A US embassy official?

British consulate??

Head of some international trade committee???

Tell me..... How do you get into such a prestigious bash to collect such information and high ranking officials who freely disclose sensitive and very 'need to know' information to you so that you can come onto a farang forum and spout all their secrets to the public??????

Give it a rest red shirt, go back to your 3 rai hobby farm where you can daydream all day long.... hilarious.

Edited May 3, 2014 by WoopyDoo

[wandasloan]

You are taking about a government that is out of favour only--this is not the case---recognize it.

So you say, and on your word and your count, so the fate of the government and the direction should be decided.

Funny, but MY count indicates something quite different, an extremely large majority that would like to have the chance to have an actual say in all this, without just having to accept your word. Even if you aren't biased... which would make you pretty special in today's Thailand — even if you are absolutely fair, is it okay to say I don't think you can do arithmetic well?

And so once again the age-old... well, five-month-old question. If you are so certain that the government is out of favour, why are you going to such incredible lengths including violence and inconveniencing millions over the course of five months. Why are you afraid to actually confirm that the government is out of favour by doing a simple, national head count?

.

[ouredd]

Too late, Election-Collection is around the corner, as well as the revival of the Amnesty bill, and you and Suthep can kiss your behinds goodbye...

That's the reality, as bitter as it is for all of us in Thailand: "the legend in Dubai will never die or perish..."

Are you on drugs,it will never happen,

[Mrgk]

Modern forms of democracy have been called the worst possible form of government, except all others that have been tried.

I broadly agree with this sentiment. Which is why it is frustrating to watch the Democrats, the PDRC and their allies missing the "except" part of the statement.

[Mrgk]

They had an election a couple years ago, and just look at the mess PTP made. It's now time to, as you say, reinvent those parts and make them better.

People who use engineering analogies for the political process miss the point: Politics are not exclusively about how to best achieve some pre-determied goal, I.e. "achieve flight".

Rather, the point of politics is in large part to determine who gets to set the goals of government, I.e. to decide which "reforms" are to be implemented.

Thus, demanding "reform before elections" is just a demand for "power for us without elections", or an attempt to cheat at politics.

[ginjag]

You are taking about a government that is out of favour only--this is not the case---recognize it.

So you say, and on your word and your count, so the fate of the government and the direction should be decided.

Funny, but MY count indicates something quite different, an extremely large majority that would like to have the chance to have an actual say in all this, without just having to accept your word. Even if you aren't biased... which would make you pretty special in today's Thailand — even if you are absolutely fair, is it okay to say I don't think you can do arithmetic well?

And so once again the age-old... well, five-month-old question. If you are so certain that the government is out of favour, why are you going to such incredible lengths including violence and inconveniencing millions over the course of five months. Why are you afraid to actually confirm that the government is out of favour by doing a simple, national head count?

.

You clipped a part of a sentence to suit your needs.

DO NOT DOCTOR POSTS, leave the whole post in so that it will show your not cheating.--you did this to gain brownie points Do not mislead others in order to enhance your post.

poor member that does this.

[Thai at Heart]

I'm guessing Mark had a lot of help from mommy and daddy in getting him into Oxford, he doesn't seem all that bright.

Who cares...at least he's one of the very few in any party with some semblance of higher education......maybe you prefer the Chalerm style of pollie??

I refuse to believe this idea that politicians are necessarily better because of a better education.

It isn't a guarantee of anything. And I prefer a principled type of politician who keeps his word. Hard to find these days.

[lvr181]

"Under the final push the PDRC leader Suthep Thaugsuban had announced to seize power in the name of “the people” and propose the name of a reform prime minister to His Majesty the King and countersign the appointment."

"Seize the power....." is what political parties want! And to hell with reform. Politicians, their minions and their cronies don't want reform only POWER. Since 1932 Thailand has had a chance to embrace democracy with accountability and TRANSPARENCY. And where is it?

Not one party has come out and clearly stated what reforms it will introduce. The "ordinary voter" (who may believe in the advancement of their country and NOT individuals) would know WHO to vote for if they knew WHAT they were voting for.

In the meantime, this screaming pack of threatening people (from all sides) just wants POWER and advances all sorts of "threats" why they should have it!

Unfortunately, it seems Thai peoples may get what they deserve and not what is good for their country.

[ginjag]

You are taking about a government that is out of favour only--this is not the case---recognize it.

So you say, and on your word and your count, so the fate of the government and the direction should be decided.

Funny, but MY count indicates something quite different, an extremely large majority that would like to have the chance to have an actual say in all this, without just having to accept your word. Even if you aren't biased... which would make you pretty special in today's Thailand — even if you are absolutely fair, is it okay to say I don't think you can do arithmetic well?

And so once again the age-old... well, five-month-old question. If you are so certain that the government is out of favour, why are you going to such incredible lengths including violence and inconveniencing millions over the course of five months. Why are you afraid to actually confirm that the government is out of favour by doing a simple, national head count?

.

Please read what I said clever clogs, I said " You are talking about a government that is out of favour only--THIS IS NOT THE CASE---recognize it.

Therefore with it NOT just being out of favour, but involved in MEGA problems, then elections are no easy way back until all is sorted by the courts.

You see by forgetting "this is not the case" you have shot yourself in the foot.

My maths are good thanks, but my arithmetic was poor. try not to distort and read wrong, people notice.

[rubl]

Here is a better plan for Ahbishit. Resign from his party, apologize to the people for his undemocratic views and enter monkhood. When he come out, many will forgive him.

Most Thais wouldn't recognise 'democratic' views if it hit them in the face. Furthermore Thailand doesn't really have a democracy, and never had one.

To reason from the starting point of "Thailand democracy" with ideas of how some Western Democracies function is like assuming your car doesn't really need tires or even wheels and simply try to drive off. IMHO