Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just buy a house or condo or land in a company name. You are then a director of a company you are entitled to a biz visa. No work permit required for directors/shareholders. Or start any other sort of biz. If you're just a shareholder/investor you don't need a work permit or Thai staff. Just please will everyone go to a visa consultant. When you get sick you don't have a problem seeing a doctor.

This process may work for year one..

But when you need years 2's visa from your home country, and the company has no accounts, no turnover, and no VAT.. Is basically a shelf company.

Will non imm Bs of the required multi entry still be available to it ?? I know a friend who has a legal company, lots of turnover, Thai staff, but chooses to get a visa in UK instead of extend incountry. He told me he had major headaches last time, even with a real company, obtaining a nin imm B multi entry.

The trend is clearly to single entries and extending incountry, which the above shelf company will not enable.

I thought, I also remembered hearing Thai authorities taking the position that land holdings by companies that simply exist to own land (not as part of some ongoing actual business operation) were considered illegal. And if push came to shove, that kind of land ownership could be invalidated.

I gather there's a lot of folks who have acquired land/homes that way, but it's always seemed a rather iffy proposition, especially with the periodic political waves of "foreigners own too much land in Thailand." But I'm less clear on how many of those folks are relying on related B visas for their immigration status vs. marriage visas and such.

[LivinLOS]

Buying the right to a B visa is one way thats semi legal. Pay some taxes, etc.

Taxes are not payable unless a profit is realized.

Thats what I mean.. Have some income diverted to Thai source (within the same years it is earnt) and pay income tax and social security etc on it.

I know companies that do this, they are BOI so they dont have a thai staff requirement, and they provide b visas (with extensions) and work permits, for freelancers here in the kingdom. They process all your accounts and taxes and handle all your legal.

[ATF]

I thought, I also remembered hearing Thai authorities taking the position that land holdings by companies that simply exist to own land (not as part of some ongoing actual business operation) were considered illegal. And if push came to shove, that kind of land ownership could be invalidated.

I gather there's a lot of folks who have acquired land/homes that way, but it's always seemed a rather iffy proposition, especially with the periodic political waves of "foreigners own too much land in Thailand." But I'm less clear on how many of those folks are relying on related B visas for their immigration status vs. marriage visas and such.

What they are talking about is ghost directors/shareholders. So if your partner and children are shareholders. No problem

[LivinLOS]

Well I have been here long enough to see a lot of sad retiree's, drinking beers outside the 7/11 to save money.. While I also know oil workers with new 5 series M sports and a garage full of million baht motorbikes.

Which one do you think benefits Thailand the most financially ??

Doesn't really matter, they can all stay legally here without too much hassle.

I have yet to hear how an oil worker, with limited time on his in and outs, flown directly from work to BKK, can do for a visa ??

Saying go and get tourist visas from a 3rd party country is simply not workable for the travel.

Visa exempt entries would be ok.

Also postal services for tourist visas work fine, as does application for non-immigrant visa.

Well I still dont know what class on non imm your talking about..

One of my professional buddies is in and out near weekly.. OK so he does have multiple passports but I fail to see how he can post it away, to get a tourist visa, once a week.. And have it in his hand on his next return ??

Working professionals earning money outside of Thailand are breaking none of Thailands laws, and are simply spenders incountry. Yet I dont see how they can continue to be a net benefit to Thailand if these rules are implemented as said.

[pxlgirl]

I know companies that do this, they are BOI so they dont have a thai staff requirement, and they provide b visas (with extensions) and work permits, for freelancers here in the kingdom. They process all your accounts and taxes and handle all your legal.

you will need quite a bit of "investment" to be a BOI company though, I'm guessing?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I thought, I also remembered hearing Thai authorities taking the position that land holdings by companies that simply exist to own land (not as part of some ongoing actual business operation) were considered illegal. And if push came to shove, that kind of land ownership could be invalidated.

I gather there's a lot of folks who have acquired land/homes that way, but it's always seemed a rather iffy proposition, especially with the periodic political waves of "foreigners own too much land in Thailand." But I'm less clear on how many of those folks are relying on related B visas for their immigration status vs. marriage visas and such.

What they are talking about is ghost directors/shareholders. So if your partner and children are shareholders. No problem

Yes, there is the issue about ghost directors...

But that's not what I was referring to above. I was referring specifically to the issue of landholding by companies that exist only for the purpose of holding land, and how Thai authorities view that.

[Soutpeel]

One simple flaw is..

The ED's for language are 90 day extensions..

You can only get a re-entry permit to the end of any current extension..

So by default on your second trip out of the country you will be out of Thailand when the extension expires.. And you certainly cannot time your in and outs to fit with the 90 day immigration needs.

I tried to explain his to a buddy who thinks hes going to just pay off a school.. Yes if he was resident he could, but his travel schedule (hes not O&G) is insane and theres no way an ED works for him.

Buying the right to a B visa is one way thats semi legal. Pay some taxes, etc.

I was under the impression you can get an extension of stay for the purposes of education, if so, all you need to do in a 12 month period is 90 day reporting, and you have a multiple re-entry permit and seeing at your flipping in an out every month you will not do the 90 day report anyway.

"Buying the right B visa is the way"....you don't "buy" a B visa, you apply if you qualify, and anyways, an O&G worker, living in Thailand and they are from the UK say for example the best they could ever hope for is a single entry B visa, from a local SEA Thai consulate or embassy, if they were trying to get a 12 month multiple entry in all likelihood would need to go back to the UK to get it.

[stevenl]

Doesn't really matter, they can all stay legally here without too much hassle.

I have yet to hear how an oil worker, with limited time on his in and outs, flown directly from work to BKK, can do for a visa ??

Saying go and get tourist visas from a 3rd party country is simply not workable for the travel.

Visa exempt entries would be ok.

Also postal services for tourist visas work fine, as does application for non-immigrant visa.

Well I still dont know what class on non imm your talking about..

One of my professional buddies is in and out near weekly.. OK so he does have multiple passports but I fail to see how he can post it away, to get a tourist visa, once a week.. And have it in his hand on his next return ??

Working professionals earning money outside of Thailand are breaking none of Thailands laws, and are simply spenders incountry. Yet I dont see how they can continue to be a net benefit to Thailand if these rules are implemented as said.

If they are living here without the proper visa they are abusing the visa system, and should not be living here. If your buddy is here once a week he is not a tourist, is he, but living here. This is different BTW from the situation I replied to, but you still have the habit of shifting subjects during a discussion I see.

[DrTuner]

Thats what I mean.. Have some income diverted to Thai source (within the same years it is earnt) and pay income tax and social security etc on it.

I know companies that do this, they are BOI so they dont have a thai staff requirement, and they provide b visas (with extensions) and work permits, for freelancers here in the kingdom. They process all your accounts and taxes and handle all your legal.

You mean you'd be paying the BOI company to employ you ? I guess that's legal. Care to tell what type of freelancers, journalists ?

[balo]

You can get an ED visa for learning any language for 18000 baht here in Pattaya. 4 hours class every week but most people will not show up every time.

The visa can be renewed for up to 5 years at least. So this is the best visa for single people under 50.

Edited May 15, 2014 by balo

[smurph]

Looks like the good days over for a lot of people under 50. Notice the rules for Non Imm-B multiple entries also tightened up a lot. Not a bad article here on alternatives to Thailand in SEAsia, specifically aimed at location independent people who work online... http://asiancorrespondent.com/122727/thailand-visa-run-crackdown-alternative-destinations/

[arunsakda]

Well I have been here long enough to see a lot of sad retiree's, drinking beers outside the 7/11 to save money.. While I also know oil workers with new 5 series M sports and a garage full of million baht motorbikes.

Which one do you think benefits Thailand the most financially ??

Doesn't really matter, they can all stay legally here without too much hassle.

I have yet to hear how an oil worker, with limited time on his in and outs, flown directly from work to BKK, can do for a visa ??

Saying go and get tourist visas from a 3rd party country is simply not workable for the travel.

I thought about this all night and now am sure I became excessively stressed for no good reason. The immigration authorities are just saying they are going to enforce existing law. I looked at my passport and in the last 6 months I have spent only about 35 days in LOS. The reason for this is that I have to fly OVERSEAS TO WORK! All I do here is relax and spend money that I brought in. No reason this pattern should not continue and in about 4 years I will be age eligible for "retirement" visa.

FIFO Oil workers on 28 day shifts etc. should be be fine but make you are out of country at least 90 out of proceeding 180 days. This will require some trips to Macau, Penang, Bali etc.. Unfortunately for the local economy now you will spend the dosh you would have spent in Thailand outside the Kingdom. Smart move for Thailand!?

For now I am going to take a chill pill and see how this plays out. I don't have anymore invested here I can't afford to walk away from anyway.

Edited May 15, 2014 by arunsakda

[ubonjoe]

Well I have been here long enough to see a lot of sad retiree's, drinking beers outside the 7/11 to save money.. While I also know oil workers with new 5 series M sports and a garage full of million baht motorbikes.

Which one do you think benefits Thailand the most financially ??

Doesn't really matter, they can all stay legally here without too much hassle.

I have yet to hear how an oil worker, with limited time on his in and outs, flown directly from work to BKK, can do for a visa ??

Saying go and get tourist visas from a 3rd party country is simply not workable for the travel.

I thought about this all night and now am sure I became excessively stressed for no good reason. The immigration authorities are just saying they are going to enforce existing law. I looked at my passport and in the last 6 months I have spent only about 35 days in LOS. The reason for this is that I have to fly OVERSEAS TO WORK! All I do here is relax and spend money that I brought in. No reason this pattern should not continue and in about 4 years I will be age eligible for "retirement" visa.

FIFO Oil workers on 28 day shifts etc. should be be fine but make you are out of country at least 90 out of proceeding 180 days. This will require some trips to Macau, Penang, Bali etc.. Unfortunately for the local economy now you will spend the dosh you would have spent in Thailand outside the Kingdom. Smart move for Thailand!?

For now I am going to take a chill pill and see how this plays out. I don't have anymore invested here I can't afford to walk away from anyway.

They are not bringing back the 90 days in 180 days rule that went away over 5 years ago.

[LivinLOS]

Thats what I mean.. Have some income diverted to Thai source (within the same years it is earnt) and pay income tax and social security etc on it.

I know companies that do this, they are BOI so they dont have a thai staff requirement, and they provide b visas (with extensions) and work permits, for freelancers here in the kingdom. They process all your accounts and taxes and handle all your legal.

You mean you'd be paying the BOI company to employ you ? I guess that's legal. Care to tell what type of freelancers, journalists ?

Digital nomads and online professionals who do various online contract work etc seems to be their main focus.

Its a pretty neat solution filling a very needed role.. So much so I was surprised they are allowed to set up under BOI to do so.

[LivinLOS]

I know companies that do this, they are BOI so they dont have a thai staff requirement, and they provide b visas (with extensions) and work permits, for freelancers here in the kingdom. They process all your accounts and taxes and handle all your legal.

you will need quite a bit of "investment" to be a BOI company though, I'm guessing?

But they have already set up..

You just pay them a %age of your net. They legalize you..

End of story.

[LivinLOS]

One simple flaw is..

I was under the impression you can get an extension of stay for the purposes of education, if so, all you need to do in a 12 month period is 90 day reporting, and you have a multiple re-entry permit and seeing at your flipping in an out every month you will not do the 90 day report anyway.

No the language school ED visas are 90 days extensions not 12 months and reporting.

Now if you go to a full time university etc.. Yes thats 12 months. But language schools wont work for th oil crowd.. As every 90 days they have to go and extend, if they are out of the country, the visa goes and needs to be restarted, hence isnt valid as they return. The whole ED solution (language school) does not work for those in and out of the country constantly.

"Buying the right B visa is the way"....you don't "buy" a B visa, you apply if you qualify, and anyways, an O&G worker, living in Thailand and they are from the UK say for example the best they could ever hope for is a single entry B visa, from a local SEA Thai consulate or embassy, if they were trying to get a 12 month multiple entry in all likelihood would need to go back to the UK to get it.

By 'buying an B visa' I mean paying a company that has the right paperwork, to either just do the letter of invite, and getting a B back home or even to fully employ you as a member of staff but to do nothing.. Annual income tax on min wage isnt so hard, you just need a company with lots of Thai employees to play ball.. Many Thai lawyers can find you one of those for the right amount of cash. At an estimate its about 60k a year in taxes and 20 - 30k in 'fees' and lawyers bills.. 100k a year and you have bought yourself employment.

You pay them, you become a Thai employee.. Legally.. = buying it !!

[LivinLOS]

Doesn't really matter, they can all stay legally here without too much hassle.

I have yet to hear how an oil worker, with limited time on his in and outs, flown directly from work to BKK, can do for a visa ??

Saying go and get tourist visas from a 3rd party country is simply not workable for the travel.

Visa exempt entries would be ok.

Also postal services for tourist visas work fine, as does application for non-immigrant visa.

Well I still dont know what class on non imm your talking about..

One of my professional buddies is in and out near weekly.. OK so he does have multiple passports but I fail to see how he can post it away, to get a tourist visa, once a week.. And have it in his hand on his next return ??

Working professionals earning money outside of Thailand are breaking none of Thailands laws, and are simply spenders incountry. Yet I dont see how they can continue to be a net benefit to Thailand if these rules are implemented as said.

If they are living here without the proper visa they are abusing the visa system, and should not be living here. If your buddy is here once a week he is not a tourist, is he, but living here. This is different BTW from the situation I replied to, but you still have the habit of shifting subjects during a discussion I see.

I am still waiting to hear how oil and gas workers who dont live here can as you put it "all stay legally here without too much hassle."

Thats not moving the goalposts one inch.. Your not answering.

EDIT :: had to use bold as too many quote blocks.

[LivinLOS]

I thought about this all night and now am sure I became excessively stressed for no good reason. The immigration authorities are just saying they are going to enforce existing law. I looked at my passport and in the last 6 months I have spent only about 35 days in LOS. The reason for this is that I have to fly OVERSEAS TO WORK! All I do here is relax and spend money that I brought in. No reason this pattern should not continue and in about 4 years I will be age eligible for "retirement" visa.

FIFO Oil workers on 28 day shifts etc. should be be fine but make you are out of country at least 90 out of proceeding 180 days. This will require some trips to Macau, Penang, Bali etc.. Unfortunately for the local economy now you will spend the dosh you would have spent in Thailand outside the Kingdom. Smart move for Thailand!?

For now I am going to take a chill pill and see how this plays out. I don't have anymore invested here I can't afford to walk away from anyway.

They are not bringing back the 90 days in 180 days rule that went away over 5 years ago.

But you think they are going to look at a passport, which ever page is crammed with Thai entry stamps in and out.. For someone who isnt a tourist but has a house here and say.. Thats ok then ??

They havent said that guys who stay out 30 days are in the clear, they have clear said they are not going to allow people to live here on visa exempt stamps. But I dont know if they have realized how many professional contractors purely bring money into thailand, break no laws, doing just that.

In august we will see.

[DrTuner]

Thats what I mean.. Have some income diverted to Thai source (within the same years it is earnt) and pay income tax and social security etc on it.

I know companies that do this, they are BOI so they dont have a thai staff requirement, and they provide b visas (with extensions) and work permits, for freelancers here in the kingdom. They process all your accounts and taxes and handle all your legal.

You mean you'd be paying the BOI company to employ you ? I guess that's legal. Care to tell what type of freelancers, journalists ?

Digital nomads and online professionals who do various online contract work etc seems to be their main focus.

Its a pretty neat solution filling a very needed role.. So much so I was surprised they are allowed to set up under BOI to do so.

Ok. This seems viable. I wouldn't be surprised to see some BOI types themselves behind a company like that .. it's a cash cow.

[arunsakda]

Ubonjoe, that immigration is not bringing back the 90 days in 180 days rule that went away over 5 years ago is something I did not know.

I thought it only started 3 or 4 years ago. I did a lot of surfing of the Thai immigration website last night and saw something about it there.

There is an article in The Phuket News today (15.5.14) that characterizes this crackdown as "..more stringent application of existing rules..."

Hope so. There has always been a rule that tourists must show onward ticket. The only time I have ever been asked for onward ticket

is at the check-in counter at Nagoya airport, just once.

I am not getting married here. I do not have time to study Thai or work here because I am busy working outside of Thailand. Until I turn 50 there is no other visa I qualify for,

But I have a feeling if I applied for a tourist visa in Tokyo or Los Angeles saying I planned on staying 10 days they would tell me a US citizen should be on "visa waiver".

So the question now is how many times a year am I allowed to come to Thailand and stay for 10-20 days?

How long must I stay out between each arrival? How many total days a year am I allowed in LOS?

Edited May 15, 2014 by arunsakda

[arunsakda]

Cut and pasted this from Royal Thai Counsul LA website. Information sounds contradictory If one is allowed "30 days per entry with a total period of stay not to exceed 90 days within 6 months".

Anyway this has got me fretting again, I am overseas working until mid June at least. I have resolved to stay off

TV until next Friday, perhaps there will be some clarification by then. Let's see if I can stay off this

electronic crack pipe for a week

- arunsakda, out.

Passport holders from the countries below can visit Thailand without a visa for the maximum of 30 days stay per entry with a total peroid of stay not exceeding 90 days within 6 months from the date of first entry into the kingdom. To enter the kingdom using 30-DAY STAY WITHOUT VISA again , this can be done after the first 6 months ( from the first date you enter thailand) .

NOTE: If entering Thailand through one of the immigration checkpoints at the borders with neighboring countries, the period allowed to enter Thailand without a visa will be no more than 15 days.

Please see report from Phuket News regarding recent Thai Immigration and "visa runs"

Edited May 15, 2014 by arunsakda

[Jay Sata]

I suspect a lot of Phuket business people have been complaining about the Russians who now appear to have a major presence in places like Karon.

It was not so long ago there was a major flare up over the Russian tour operators.

[DrTuner]

I suspect a lot of Phuket business people have been complaining about the Russians who now appear to have a major presence in places like Karon.

It was not so long ago there was a major flare up over the Russian tour operators.

They are mentioned as one of the "target" groups. But why are Koreans mentioned too ?

[ATF]

I thought, I also remembered hearing Thai authorities taking the position that land holdings by companies that simply exist to own land (not as part of some ongoing actual business operation) were considered illegal. And if push came to shove, that kind of land ownership could be invalidated.

I gather there's a lot of folks who have acquired land/homes that way, but it's always seemed a rather iffy proposition, especially with the periodic political waves of "foreigners own too much land in Thailand." But I'm less clear on how many of those folks are relying on related B visas for their immigration status vs. marriage visas and such.

What they are talking about is ghost directors/shareholders. So if your partner and children are shareholders. No problem

Yes, there is the issue about ghost directors...

But that's not what I was referring to above. I was referring specifically to the issue of landholding by companies that exist only for the purpose of holding land, and how Thai authorities view that.

I am not talking about setting a company up for the acquisition of land. If you and your immediate Thai family hold property and land through a biz that is completely legitimate. If you want to prove an income, rent something out.

[ATF]

I suspect a lot of Phuket business people have been complaining about the Russians who now appear to have a major presence in places like Karon.

It was not so long ago there was a major flare up over the Russian tour operators.

They are mentioned as one of the "target" groups. But why are Koreans mentioned too ?

Have you ever seen one eat?

[bubba]

I was just through the immigration Fast Track lane for business class at Suvarnabhumi. The officer was taking a long time with a middle-aged Japanese gentleman in front of me, discussions were going on, he began to get visibly upset, and then the immigration officer called a supervisor. More words were exchanged, and then all I heard from the immigration officer as he was led away by the supervisor was "but you don't have work permit or business visa!".

First time I have ever seen something like that in the Fast Track lane. Seemed to take a bit longer processing my entry, but I do have a work permit and business visa. Makes me wonder whether they are already doing added vigilance with air arrivals.

[ATF]

I was just through the immigration Fast Track lane for business class at Suvarnabhumi. The officer was taking a long time with a middle-aged Japanese gentleman in front of me, discussions were going on, he began to get visibly upset, and then the immigration officer called a supervisor. More words were exchanged, and then all I heard from the immigration officer as he was led away by the supervisor was "but you don't have work permit or business visa!".

First time I have ever seen something like that in the Fast Track lane. Seemed to take a bit longer processing my entry, but I do have a work permit and business visa. Makes me wonder whether they are already doing added vigilance with air arrivals.

Last time I checked there were absolutely no Yakuza in Thailand.

[stevenl]

Well I still dont know what class on non imm your talking about..

One of my professional buddies is in and out near weekly.. OK so he does have multiple passports but I fail to see how he can post it away, to get a tourist visa, once a week.. And have it in his hand on his next return ??

Working professionals earning money outside of Thailand are breaking none of Thailands laws, and are simply spenders incountry. Yet I dont see how they can continue to be a net benefit to Thailand if these rules are implemented as said.

If they are living here without the proper visa they are abusing the visa system, and should not be living here. If your buddy is here once a week he is not a tourist, is he, but living here. This is different BTW from the situation I replied to, but you still have the habit of shifting subjects during a discussion I see.

I am still waiting to hear how oil and gas workers who dont live here can as you put it "all stay legally here without too much hassle."

Thats not moving the goalposts one inch.. Your not answering.

EDIT :: had to use bold as too many quote blocks.

Answered long time ago already.

[Genericnic]

 

I was just through the immigration Fast Track lane for business class at Suvarnabhumi. The officer was taking a long time with a middle-aged Japanese gentleman in front of me, discussions were going on, he began to get visibly upset, and then the immigration officer called a supervisor. More words were exchanged, and then all I heard from the immigration officer as he was led away by the supervisor was "but you don't have work permit or business visa!".

First time I have ever seen something like that in the Fast Track lane. Seemed to take a bit longer processing my entry, but I do have a work permit and business visa. Makes me wonder whether they are already doing added vigilance with air arrivals.

Last time I checked there were absolutely no Yakuza in Thailand.

 

How can you tell? All the youngsters have tattoos now.

David

[stevenl]

I suspect a lot of Phuket business people have been complaining about the Russians who now appear to have a major presence in places like Karon.

It was not so long ago there was a major flare up over the Russian tour operators.

They are mentioned as one of the "target" groups. But why are Koreans mentioned too ?

Lots of Koreans working illegally, and they get 90 days visa exempt. So if they are extending by a border run, so getting another visa exempt entry, they are staying as a tourist 90+ consecutive days.