Thai Immigration: Border insecurity mounts as tourist visa abuse is targeted

[george]

Thai Immigration: Border insecurity mounts as tourist visa abuse is targeted

BANGKOK: -- The chief of the Immigration Bureau said abuse of tourist visas by South Koreans, Russians and Vietnamese working illegally in Thailand was the main motivation for cracking down on cross-border visa runs

On May 8, the bureau announced that immigration border checkpoints would no longer allow “out-in” visa runs for visitors to extend their stay “other than for the purpose of tourism”, in reality, an enforcement of existing laws. Visa runs have fuelled a thriving business at popular tourist spots around the country. Typically, for a 2,000 baht fee, a minibus carries a visitor to a nearby border crossing, allows the foreigner to alight, and then takes him or her to a Thai immigration checkpoint where they have their passports stamped and stays extended.

Immigration officials have long expressed concerns that the visa runs are being abused by foreigners who are working illegally in Thailand as language teachers, restaurant owners and staff, real estate agents and tour guides. Immigration Bureau Commissioner Pol Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon told Spectrum that if foreigners wanted to retire, work or do business in Thailand they had to apply for the correct type of visa and not exploit those designated for tourists. “We have been too kind, for too long, and the system has been abused,” he said. “Also, work visas, which cost 1,900 baht, help generate income and we have to make money somehow.” Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said South Koreans were the biggest abusers of the visa runs. The Thai government has a reciprocal arrangement with South Korea which allows nationals to stay in the country for 90 days on arrival.

He said immigration had received many complaints that South Koreans, Vietnamese and Russians were extending their stays through visa runs and were “stealing” jobs from Thais by working as tour guides and running restaurants.

“Since many tourists come to Thailand on a tourist visa and start to work illegally, we’ve decided that it’s time we became stricter in enforcing the law than we have been,” he said. “We have seen this problem for a long time but we have never bothered dealing with it before. But now we will, as some tourists seem to be abusing the rules.” The changes have caused widespread confusion among foreigners in Thailand with specialist websites such as Thai Visa running lengthy updates on them. Some posters on the site's forum claim they are already being denied visas at some northern checkpoints, despite Pol Lt Gen Pharnu saying the crackdown will not come into effect until Aug 12.

Pol Col Sangkhom Tadso, immigration chief in Mukdahan which borders Laos, told Spectrum that his staff had been enforcing the changes for the past two weeks, mainly targeting South Koreans. “There are 8,000 Thais deported from South Korea every year, while Thai immigration only deports 20 South Koreans per year,” he said. “We both have 90-day exemptions for tourist visas and South Koreans use that privilege to work here illegally. It’s a policy decided by Pol Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon, the Immigration Bureau Commissioner, to strike back at South Korea’s government.

They can deport us, we can do the same to them.” Pol Col Sangkhom said since the law was being enforced, South Koreans were being denied entry on a daily basis. Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said it did not matter how a tourist entered Thailand — whether it be with 15-, 30- or 90-day visa exemptions — if they exited a border checkpoint and tried to reenter at the same point they would have to satisfy border control officials that their reason for travel is tourism. He also added that it did not matter what country the visitor came from.

This same scrutiny would apply to multiple-entry tourist visas issued by the Thai embassy in an individual’s home country. They could also be asked to provide evidence of financial support, which is typically 20,000 baht.

CLEANING UP YOUR ACT
A middle-aged Korean restaurant owner told Spectrum how she had taken advantage of the generous visa arrangements between the two countries for almost a decade. She also admitted all her staff were illegal workers as she could not find Thais to work for the pay she offered.

The restaurateur said she only converted to a legitimate business visa a few years ago, after years of using a 90-day tourist visa while she established her eatery.
“I opened the restaurant here in Bangkok more than 10 years ago,” she said. “All my other friends were doing the same thing. We entered Thailand on tourist visas and left the country every three months. We travelled to Poipet on the border and came right back. Sometimes we even went back home to South Korea.”
Before she legally registered her permit with the correct business visa, she had to pay local police protection money.

“We really had no choice but allow them to come and eat for free,” she said. “Sometimes they paid, but most of the time they did not. Then once a year, they collected the protection fee to give us the freedom to run the business.”

She said Thailand had been “very generous” to the South Korean community and she was grateful she and others had been allowed to establish businesses, even though they started out illegally. She said as they became successful, most of the South Koreans had applied for the correct visas and made their businesses legitimate.

“After working here for a while, I can now afford to pay the two million baht to have my business registered and apply for a proper work permit,” she said.
Although she benefited from bending the visa rules, she agrees with the coming crackdown. She said many South Koreans who come to work in Thailand nowadays are fugitives from justice back home.

“The pay in Thailand is nothing compared with what they can make back at home, but they’re better off remaining here as a free person.
"They might end up in prison if they go back home.”

Even though she has now established her business as legitimate, she still faces extortion from police over her illegal workers.

“Now they come around to check my employees who are from Myanmar and Cambodian,” she said.
“I have to admit that I haven’t registered them yet, but I plan to. I hope after the crackdown starts and I do everything right, the police will leave us alone.”

UP TO YOU
Tour agents Spectrum spoke to said entry or re-entry to Thailand rested largely on an immigration officer’s discretion, a
claim supported in part by the deportation of a young Russian woman that preceded the recent changes.

Immigration officials denied 26-year-old Mariia Sgibneva entry to Thailand at Phuket International Airport on April 21, forcing her to abandon her apartment in Phuket and return to Malaysia, according to local media reports. Ms Sgibneva — who came forward with her story after the crackdown was announced — said she completed two crossings by land after her tourist visa expired in February, and that she had left by air twice since those crossings to visit friends in Kuala Lumpur. On returning from this second trip to Kuala Lumpur, she said, she was detained by immigration officials at the airport and asked to show 20,000 baht in funds and provide proof of onward travel.

“The first question they asked was if I had a departing ticket from Thailand. I didn’t,” Ms Sgibneva told the Phuket Gazette.
“But it wasn't a big deal, I could buy one. I already knew when I was going to leave.”

Officials were unwilling to let her travel onward without showing her plans, so Ms Sgibneva hastily purchased a ticket to Malaysia on her phone and tried to show proof of the money in her bank account. But immigration officials couldn’t understand her bank’s Russian-language website and declined offers for translation.

“They asked me to show them 20,000 baht in cash,” she said. “I thought that by law I didn’t have to have the cash. It’s a lot of money. I thought I could show my bank account. They told me, ‘No, it’s not possible.’ They wanted to see the cash.” Eventually, unable to convince them that she should be granted entry to the country, she flew back to Malaysia.

The entire ordeal left her rattled.

“I think for some people who want to do a visa run, the biggest problem is that they can deport you without any reason. I can understand that there are many Russian tourists who cause problems with Thai police, but if you really want to find the people who work, find them at their workplace,” she said.

“I don’t want to see anyone else in this kind of story, Russian or non-Russian.”

BORDER-RUN BOOTY
Most visa brokers in Bangkok who spoke to Spectrum last week said business was still booming. Agents at several travel services said they were unaware of the regulation change, and that border trips are continuing as usual, adding that those seeking to do a fifth or even sixth consecutive land crossing to Cambodia or Laos are still able to do so. “Nothing has changed,” a major Bangkok visa broker said. “You can still go with no problem.” One agency hyped their “close relationship” with immigration officials that they said makes them impervious to regulatory changes, and a few travel agents offered to arrange non-immigrant O visas at exorbitant rates for those wanting to extend their stay in the Kingdom without leaving Bangkok.

However, some agents said Koreans, Filipinos, Russians and Brazilians risk being turned away at land crossings if they have even one prior crossing in their passport. One travel agent said she was no longer taking Korean customers because of the risk of them being denied a crossing by immigration, and that Koreans seeking a visa exemption on arrival must now do so by flying in and out of the country.

Agents aware of the changes said they did not receive any official notice, and were uncertain of why the changes were taking place. One speculated that it has to do with two passports that were stolen in Thailand and used as false identification by Iranian men on board the ill-fated Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, while others said financial motivations were likely pushing the policy shift. “Thailand is Thailand,” another visa agent said. “I think they want to show that Thailand is hard to live in.” She added that she expected the situation to return to normal in the near future.

While buses full of border jumpers continue to depart from the capital, the situation has unfolded differently in the North, where an agent at a prominent Chiang Mai-based company said Thai immigration officials are now barring travellers with several back-to-back border stamps from crossing at Mae Sai in Chiang Rai. The abrupt change at the Mae Sai crossing, formerly a site of regular visa runs for the city’s sizeable expat and backpacker communities, has removed a large share of his clientele. The crossing remains open to those with valid visas or those making their first land crossing for a visa exemption, he said, and his company is screening passengers beforehand to ensure they meet the new requirements.

THINK OF THE COUNTRY
Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said some visa-run operators had complained to immigration that the changes were costing them money. He said that after he explained the reasoning behind the current crackdown they “calmed down a little bit”.

“Do you love Thailand?” Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said he asked the complaining operators. “I told them that if you love our country, you must understand that these types of tourists are destroying our country by stealing jobs from Thais.

Thai people can't do this in other countries. Why would we let people from other countries do this to us? We have been kind to these people for so long. Now it's time to be stricter about the law.

Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said immigration police would allow the cross-border visa runs to continue until Aug 12. We will still let those with tourist visas cross the border and come right back in from now until Aug 12. We will take time until then to publicise the law, he said. I'm sure it will take a lot of time to adjust, but this will be good for our country in the long term.

After the grace period finishes, those working here illegally on tourist visas will have to apply for the right kind of visa.
I would like to let everyone know that we fully support tourism in Thailand, but we will no longer allow people to abuse the law and use the tourist visa for the wrong purpose, Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said.

One Northern operator said it was not the first time immigration had vowed to crack down on visa runs.

I expect this will blow over in a couple of weeks or a couple of months and it will be business as usual, he said. The government probably needs money right now so they may be encouraging people to buy visas. It's always really about money, isn't it.

Source: Bangkok Post, Agencies
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/security/410342/border-insecurity-mounts-as-tourist-visa-abuse-is-targeted

[Artisi]

If you abuse the system what do you expect - no other country will put up with the nonsense of people coming and going as if it is their right to do so. A tourist visa is a tourist visa - not an invitation to stay for ever.

[mrtoad]

Not that I am advocating illegal working, but are foreigners really taking jobs of Thais? It's difficult enough to find Thai staff as it is, and I don't think there is a massive pool of Korean and Russian speaking Thais

[Thai at Heart]

Not that I am advocating illegal working, but are foreigners really taking jobs of Thais? It's difficult enough to find Thai staff as it is, and I don't think there is a massive pool of Korean and Russian speaking Thais

Of course not. Why would someone employ a foreign restaurant manager or Thai translator or tour guide if that was what they wanted.

The way they talk u imagine they are planning to remove thousands of people from Thailand. All they will achieve is to hurt some businesses, which in the end hurts Thailand.

[robblok]

Not that I am advocating illegal working, but are foreigners really taking jobs of Thais? It's difficult enough to find Thai staff as it is, and I don't think there is a massive pool of Korean and Russian speaking Thais

In general they are not taking away jobs from Thais especially if they created the work themselves. Think off all those people operating online businesses. The big problem for them is not paying taxes but the idiot 4 Thais to every foreigner in your own company.

Ah Thais are xenophobic they wont learn.

[Thai at Heart]

Not that I am advocating illegal working, but are foreigners really taking jobs of Thais? It's difficult enough to find Thai staff as it is, and I don't think there is a massive pool of Korean and Russian speaking Thais

In general they are not taking away jobs from Thais especially if they created the work themselves. Think off all those people operating online businesses. The big problem for them is not paying taxes but the idiot 4 Thais to every foreigner in your own company.

Ah Thais are xenophobic they wont learn.

Exactly. They are just going to cause a momentary mess, and when it is finished it will revert to normal in 6 months or so, but by then a lot of people will have moved on.

Then there will be moaning that some tourists have moved on because the service is poor, some tourist companies will have closed and the language schools will be moaning because even fewer teachers.

Will they ever learn? Nope. It is the curse of the dumb pooyais to be able to effortlessly cut off ones nose to spite ones face. Modifying the law to make things work better would require some thought and planning, being authoritarian without a brain is just so much easier.

[happysanook]

If you abuse the system what do you expect - no other country will put up with the nonsense of people coming and going as if it is their right to do so. A tourist visa is a tourist visa - not an invitation to stay for ever.

Another geezer with nothing better to do.

Here is the crux of the issue: "He said immigration had received many complaints that South Koreans, Vietnamese and Russians were extending their stays through visa runs and were stealing jobs from Thais by working as tour guides and running restaurants."

Got nothing to do with enforcing the law. The truth is that this scheme is HUGE revenue for the embassies and for Thailand. Without illegal foreigners, Thailand would still be a rice patty.

[happysanook]

Not that I am advocating illegal working, but are foreigners really taking jobs of Thais? It's difficult enough to find Thai staff as it is, and I don't think there is a massive pool of Korean and Russian speaking Thais

In general they are not taking away jobs from Thais especially if they created the work themselves. Think off all those people operating online businesses. The big problem for them is not paying taxes but the idiot 4 Thais to every foreigner in your own company.

Ah Thais are xenophobic they wont learn.

+1

This is just xenophobic Thais whi simply don't have the knowhow or will to compete in regards to marketing and customer service.

Are foreigners stealing business. I'd have to say yes. But its more a case of Thais just being unable to compete.

The big difference between illegal Asians in the west and illegal westerners in Asia is that illegal Asians go to work and save up all their money to bring it back to their home country. Westerners working in Asia come to live and work to spend their money and stay in Asia and experience a different way of life.

[geoman1976]

First, I don't think Russians, South Koreans, and Vietnamese are "stealing" jobs. I do see Thais that use a lot of illegals from Myanmar for chheaper labor. Second, this was a legal loophole until recently so stop condemning those who used it. I personally never did but would have if it was legal and I needed it. Third, in addition to this reform I think it would be advantageous for Thailand to reform some of the existing laws in regards to small business owners that cannot afford such ridiculous requirements as 2 mil baht capital when you are a language teacher, tour guide, or real estate agent. That is just absurd to me. I think Thailand will be shocked at how much Thais and foreigners alike rely on these small businesses. If tthey are serious about this loophole being closed, they should think about opening easier avenues for small businesses to continue to emerge or I fear what will happen to this already struggling economy.

[tomyumchai]

i can already see the line of thais waiting to take the 100bt a day jobs that are being made vacant by the illegals they are expelling............oh, sorry,its just the queue for the KFC

[mahjongguy]

In the article the Immigration official said about South Korea: “We both have 90-day exemptions for tourist visas..."

If he meant that Thais can get a visa exempt entry to South Korea, that is incorrect. Not for any length of stay.

[Cam Khao]

So within a week they have already moved one notch up the chain, from visa exempt entries, to tourist visa holders.

What's next? ED visas? Most probably.

[Ragzilb]

Why are you all so upset, Thailand is just becomming like all the other western countries.

[Ragzilb]

But dont get me wrong I like they are taing actions against illigal overstayed people. It makes me sad to see a Thailand I once knew becomming so much in disarray.

[mahjongguy]

So within a week they have already moved one notch up the chain, from visa exempt entries, to tourist visa holders.

Despite the article's headline and repeated misstatements in the text, it is not tourist visas that are being discussed. Perhaps there will be a crackdown on tourist visas in the future, but this discussion is about visa exempt entries (aka visa waiver).

[LeeCraker]

"She also admitted all her staff were illegal workers as she could not find Thais to work for the pay she offered." OMG I Thought the Thai pay scale was bad !

[anon467367354]

why not make it so people can work and pay taxes?

[Satcommlee]

And all those abusing the ED visa to stay - May have their new found language skills put to test the next time they visit immigration!

[Cam Khao]

So within a week they have already moved one notch up the chain, from visa exempt entries, to tourist visa holders.

Despite the article's headline and repeated misstatements in the text, it is not tourist visas that are being discussed. Perhaps there will be a crackdown on tourist visas in the future, but this discussion is about visa exempt entries (aka visa waiver).

Taken from the article:

This same scrutiny would apply to multiple-entry tourist visas issued by the Thai embassy in an individual’s home country.

[alocacoc]

So within a week they have already moved one notch up the chain, from visa exempt entries, to tourist visa holders.

Despite the article's headline and repeated misstatements in the text, it is not tourist visas that are being discussed. Perhaps there will be a crackdown on tourist visas in the future, but this discussion is about visa exempt entries (aka visa waiver).

Within the article it is also mention;

This same scrutiny would apply to multiple-entry tourist visas issued by the Thai embassy in an individual’s home country. They could also be asked to provide evidence of financial support, which is typically 20,000 baht.

[Tomtomtom69]

In the article the Immigration official said about South Korea: “We both have 90-day exemptions for tourist visas..."

If he meant that Thais can get a visa exempt entry to South Korea, that is incorrect. Not for any length of stay.

Actually they can so you are incorrect. It's a reciprocal 90-day visa waiver. I know quite a few Thais that have been to South Korea on such TR visa waivers but the vast majority spent a week or less in the country as they all have jobs to return to or are university students (plus South Korea is pretty expensive!)

Thailand nowadays only extends 90 day visa free privileges to countries that extend it towards Thai citizens meaning they act upon reciprocity. Peru, Argentina, Brazil and South Korea are the 4 countries that receive 90-day waivers for entry to Thailand and similarly, Thais get 90-day waivers when entering those countries.

[ILOOKFORWORK]

If you abuse the system what do you expect - no other country will put up with the nonsense of people coming and going as if it is their right to do so. A tourist visa is a tourist visa - not an invitation to stay for ever.

You think Immigration really cares about making it right? Get real man. Don't blame the people who are simply trying to make a living. Blame the corruption within the system if you want to blame somebody or something. Just like this current political crisis, it's going to be the same. At the end of the crisis, the country is going to be ruled by a godfather. It's only an issue of whether the godfather comes from the north or the south. Likewise, Immigration will remain the same. It's only an issue of where the money is being directed - to the border officers or to the higher ranking embassy/consulate officers. And it looks like now the money is shifting towards the higher ranked folks.

[wilcopops]

One wonders if immigration are starting from the wrong premise here.......A lot of people working in Thailand do so because there is a need for they skills, experience or expertise. If Thailand sorted out there work permits better the problem would go away or at least reduce and these people, rather than working in the shadows would contribute positively to the Thai economy.

[Bignose]

You cannot travel to Australia, Britain, America, Canada or any other such nation, and walk in and start working in any capacity without applying for a work visa.

Whether they are taking a potential job away from a Thai resident is irrelevant, a non tourist person who works without the proper paperwork is an illegal alien, you would be the same in just about any other country in the world so what is your problem?

[chiang mai]

Yes, I do believe that Immigration cares about getting it right, no sympathies for the illegals who have exploited the loopholes and tried to play the system, they just make life more difficult for the rest of us..

[ILOOKFORWORK]

Not that I am advocating illegal working, but are foreigners really taking jobs of Thais? It's difficult enough to find Thai staff as it is, and I don't think there is a massive pool of Korean and Russian speaking Thais

In general they are not taking away jobs from Thais especially if they created the work themselves. Think off all those people operating online businesses. The big problem for them is not paying taxes but the idiot 4 Thais to every foreigner in your own company.

Ah Thais are xenophobic they wont learn.

+1

This is just xenophobic Thais whi simply don't have the know how or will to compete in regards to marketing and customer service.

Are foreigners stealing business. I'd have to say yes. But its more a case of Thais just being unable to compete.

The big difference between illegal Asians in the west and illegal westerners in Asia is that illegal Asians go to work and save up all their money to bring it back to their home country. Westerners working in Asia come to live and work to spend their money and stay in Asia and experience a different way of life.

That's precisely it. You couldn't have said it better. Some people are just really lost as to how the Thai society and overall system works. So they blame the "illegals" or overstays, or whoever ... anybody except the system itself haha. They must be wearing rose-colored glasses and started buying in to the fairy tales that are willfully and strategically bombarded upon the public in Thailand on a daily basis.

[wilcopops]

If you abuse the system what do you expect - no other country will put up with the nonsense of people coming and going as if it is their right to do so. A tourist visa is a tourist visa - not an invitation to stay for ever.

My feeling is that both this poster and Thai immigration are approaching the problem from the wrong angle. And rather than solve it by piecemeal bureaucratic dictums they should be looking at long term policies on importing workers from abroad. Most countries welcome expertise and erntrepreneurialism from outside in one form or another as it benefits their own economies.......Thailand should take note, rather than rely on a list and system put in place God knows when without any real research or planning.

[ILOOKFORWORK]

Yes, I do believe that Immigration cares about getting it right, no sympathies for the illegals who have exploited the loopholes and tried to play the system, they just make life more difficult for the rest of us..

You really don't understand the Thai system or mentality. If they care about anything remotely related to something we could call "right"....it's the care they have in creating the IMAGE of making things APPEAR to be right, when in reality things are still far from being right.

[belg]

so why is it that some nationalities, not bordering thailand, got 90 days, others 30 and even others have to have a visa

[alocacoc]

Some guys here seems to be very frustrated about Thailand. I wonder why they still want to living here.