Protests Against Coup Continue in Bangkok

[srsv1238]

Really am hesitating to comment on any posts today because I do not want to be involved in any responses about the politics and who was at fault and how/why etc. None of my business to be honest and as someone schooled in UK left of centre/liberal leaning/card carrying unionist style politics what happens here in Bangkok is totally different to anything I am used to. However I have a certain amount of sympathy for idealistic students, spent enough time of my student years carrying placards on student demos not to recognise the frustrations they are feeling.

My main emotional feeling today is one of distaste to be honest, having taken for granted all my life the ability to vote for the political party of my choosing, but abide by what the electorate at large decides, to see how easy that can be lost in a country like Thailand just leaves me saddened, and unhappy to find myself living in country where the courts and army have removed a government voted into power by a one person one vote electorate. Somehow Thailand has been tainted in my mind and heart by all of this. Sorry, just how I feel.

How would you feel towards the Government you voted in if they proceeded to rob the country of US $100 Billion and when asked to account for it and show transparency they say 'we cannot because it is in the National Interest not to account for it'. This money has simply gone! Would you be happy then that those people should never have had your vote, should be impeached and kicked out of office and face jail. Thailand has not lost it's democracy, for the first time in 2 years it stands a chance of reclaiming it's dignity. With my hand on my heart this bunch of crooks deserved to be ousted for the benefit of the people of this country.

I pray that Prayuth brings in real reform, the first being one law for all, and that MP's are not immune from prosecution for criminal activities, the second being that you cannot face a law suit for defamation if you are telling the truth. When we have a system that will permit One Nation, One People, One Law then elections can stand and they have a good chance of being the first step in a proper democracy with those voted in to power working for the people rather than themselves.

Democracy works by allowing people to vote for a government of their choice. If the government truly did something so idiotic they should be charged with a crime (if ine was commuted) and be voted out of office. Whatever you do, do not stage a coup.

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[srsv1238]

Really am hesitating to comment on any posts today because I do not want to be involved in any responses about the politics and who was at fault and how/why etc. None of my business to be honest and as someone schooled in UK left of centre/liberal leaning/card carrying unionist style politics what happens here in Bangkok is totally different to anything I am used to. However I have a certain amount of sympathy for idealistic students, spent enough time of my student years carrying placards on student demos not to recognise the frustrations they are feeling.

My main emotional feeling today is one of distaste to be honest, having taken for granted all my life the ability to vote for the political party of my choosing, but abide by what the electorate at large decides, to see how easy that can be lost in a country like Thailand just leaves me saddened, and unhappy to find myself living in country where the courts and army have removed a government voted into power by a one person one vote electorate. Somehow Thailand has been tainted in my mind and heart by all of this. Sorry, just how I feel.

Oh the naivete! It's all very well to talk about democracy and one man one vote.......but why have you not considered that when votes are bought, it is not a true reflection of the will of the people?

These students too, I have no doubt were influenced. Not by money, perhaps, but by weasely words. This march was not done by critically thinking tertiary students, it was done by students who were swayed by something.superficial.

Can I bride you to vote against your conscious? Give people a little credit. They may take your money, but they will continue to vote however they want. This obsession with vote buying is simply an excuse for your unpopularity. Next thing you know, a politician that promises to fix a road or improve elementary schools will also be accused of vote buying.

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[srsv1238]

Oh the naivete! It's all very well to talk about democracy and one man one vote.......but why have you not considered that when votes are bought, it is not a true reflection of the will of the people?

These students too, I have no doubt were influenced. Not by money, perhaps, but by weasely words. This march was not done by critically thinking tertiary students, it was done by students who were swayed by something.superficial.

Are students in some other reality not swayed by superficial things? Where? The votes were for sale, on that we agree the only problem is the side with the most money lost the election? How do you explain that?

One last point, the last time I checked profound words were better at convincing people than weasely words.

There has never been a problem with vote buying in Thailand. It was always an accepted part of Thai Politics. What changed all that is when the Shins decided to be clever and use Public Funds to influence voters. How could any Opposition compete?

. Is it vote buying to say you will improve roads and infrastructure, or to say you want to improve schools and health care? If so, all politicians can be accused of "vote buying"

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[srsv1238]

I think you forgot who was in power during the last election. The current party had no access to pubic funds.

The side that lost had the access to the public funds.

Sure but they didn't use them to offer voters incentives.

maybe they should have. Or maybe they didn't have any ideas on how to develop the country. No wonder they lost.

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[srsv1238]

How would you feel towards the Government you voted in if they proceeded to rob the country of US $100 Billion and when asked to account for it and show transparency they say 'we cannot because it is in the National Interest not to account for it'. This money has simply gone! Would you be happy then that those people should never have had your vote, should be impeached and kicked out of office and face jail. Thailand has not lost it's democracy, for the first time in 2 years it stands a chance of reclaiming it's dignity. With my hand on my heart this bunch of crooks deserved to be ousted for the benefit of the people of this country.

I pray that Prayuth brings in real reform, the first being one law for all, and that MP's are not immune from prosecution for criminal activities, the second being that you cannot face a law suit for defamation if you are telling the truth. When we have a system that will permit One Nation, One People, One Law then elections can stand and they have a good chance of being the first step in a proper democracy with those voted in to power working for the people rather than themselves.

Who would determine when there is a system in place with one law and a proper democracy?

One law to be followed by all is pretty simple. As for Democracy it is an evolving process to get a 'proper democracy', but at least if you stop corrupt MP's and make them accountable under law you stand a chance. The situation we have here is that MP's can (and are) corrupt and they have immunity from the law. If that is a recipe for a 'proper democracy' then I am a sandwich short of a picnic I will admit it.

How would you feel towards the Government you voted in if they proceeded to rob the country of US $100 Billion and when asked to account for it and show transparency they say 'we cannot because it is in the National Interest not to account for it'. This money has simply gone! Would you be happy then that those people should never have had your vote, should be impeached and kicked out of office and face jail. Thailand has not lost it's democracy, for the first time in 2 years it stands a chance of reclaiming it's dignity. With my hand on my heart this bunch of crooks deserved to be ousted for the benefit of the people of this country.

I pray that Prayuth brings in real reform, the first being one law for all, and that MP's are not immune from prosecution for criminal activities, the second being that you cannot face a law suit for defamation if you are telling the truth. When we have a system that will permit One Nation, One People, One Law then elections can stand and they have a good chance of being the first step in a proper democracy with those voted in to power working for the people rather than themselves.

Jim, the British Government has wasted Billions of pounds of taxpayers money especially when Labour where in power, they wasted Billions on failed Defence contracts, Chinook Helicopters that couldn't fly in the Dark, Apache Helicopters that couldn't fire the missiles to name but a few, the money wasted on Aircraft carriers, submarines.. and yep, you guessed it, the Defence Ministers couldn't and wouldn't put their hands up for the miss management of funds, so it's NOT just Thailand that lacks accountability, I'm pretty sure some of the American TVF members could also come up with plenty of examples of squandered funding, and zero accountability.

Ah, the key difference is that money was squandered on projects that were not properly considered. Here we have the simple fact that the money has gone to a bunch of MP's into their own pockets, their own bank accounts. I think you can clearly see the difference. One is inept the other is not only inept but criminally corrupt.

source?

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[srsv1238]

Lies and innuendo and character assignation instead of facts. Why or how can anyone respond.

Yingluck Shinawatra earned a bachelor's degree from Chiang Mai University and a master's degree from Kentucky State University, both in public administration.

Public Administration hardly qualifies her to be a PM. Maybe she could work in the Department of Labor. Abhisit is an intellectual he was groomed to be the next Chuan Leekpai. Just give me one good reason why anyone should support of believe her.

Well the people looked at him and didn't think he was right for the job. Maybe he would be better as a diplomat or a professor?

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[srsv1238]

She won the election. Abhisit lost. She was removed by force and the country has been taken over by a military coup. Why are you going on about Yingluck? Her brother won an election and he was removed by a coup. Until the military get a PM they approve of they will keep removing them. Is this really news to you?

She and her brother were removed because they were caught with their fingers in the till. Just like someone working at 7-11. However the till was a lot bigger.

Source?

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[srsv1238]

any free man who has been robbed of his democracy surely will protest against the robbers

So what you are saying is if enough people stood up for Nixon then he shouldn't have been impeached?

Nixon was not impeached. That was Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton.

OK let's split hairs if they hadn't agreed to leave office and they had popular support how would they have been removed?

judicial and military coup.

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[Fat Haggis]

ATF is just trolling, Yingluck wasn't removed for having her "fingers in the till" she was removed for abusing her power in removing Thawil? from his National Security Advisory role and replacing him with a family member, she hasn't been convicted of " fingers in the till" ....yet! in essence, She was removed for using nepotism, which the irony is that the Military is one of the biggest nepotistic organisations within Thailand.

[celso]

So which team are these on, do they count as reds or yellows?

I need to know so I can decide whether they are good or corrupt.

Edited May 24, 2014 by celso

[bkkjames]

So anti coup protesters heading for showdown with the army at victory monument...according to breaking news section.

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[hughben]

So which team are these on, do they count as reds or yellows?

I need to know so I can decide whether they are good or corrupt.

Both sides have corrupt (usually the ones pulling the strings) and ones with good intentions.

Anyone know why has the Junta called in academics?

[esprit]

So which team are these on, do they count as reds or yellows?

I need to know so I can decide whether they are good or corrupt.

Both sides have corrupt (usually the ones pulling the strings) and ones with good intentions.

Anyone know why has the Junta called in academics?

I suspect that the general is a follower of the Pol Pot and this is just the start.

[arjunadawn]

Coups vs the natural democratic or representative electoral system? I have always believed the military should only defend borders, repel invaders, or otherwise as legislatively directed by executive. For the first time I note an example where a military coup may have actually enabled the democratic process; because of it's acting, it may actually save a system that wAs otherwise not ripe, or rotted. Which begs the question:

Is it true that previous coups have set Thailand back, stunted the due process of the march of democracy? I ask because democratic processes do not take hold in all nations equally, monolithically- and poof! Your a democracy. It's been noted adversely that Thailand's coups have variously injured "democracy." Isn't at least plausible that in some instances this mechanism has enabled, or preserved, the notion of representative government? Follow me, here; as an example, if the current political morass was allowed to indefinitely fester you would surely have nothing even resembling a state. Over time there'd be little institutional memory of representative mechanisms, and a prime breeding ground for despotism might ensue. By the very action that those who oppose limited military intervention are we not also overlooking something positive it achieves (in this limited example)? I am confident once a nation is fully despotic the road back is quite perilous. With the disintegration stopped here! Now! Might the institutional yearning and memory remain to enable, hopefully, more success next time?

I hold that when any form of democratic representative government is so corrupt, so saddled with nepotism, collusion, and corruption that only tearing the infection from the roots can save the host. It should never be true that democracy is a suicide pact and that once we have elected to declare ourselves "democracy" we are required to march to the gallows embracing this fantasy even long after it's been hijacked! In this regard, Thailand and America are similar; except Thai ppl have the courage to see their political system is shadows (at least their military sees this now). On this point it is telling that the US firmly endorses the Thai Status Quo; and not because this is a moral imperative of the US Foreign Policy. The US variously supports military, or not, involvement around the world, depending which strongman, dictator, or government is in power. In this case, the US objected to Thai military involvement because the status quo served US purposes. The very thing the Thai Military sought to heal, that issue which the majority of hype Thai people recognize, is the one issue the US sought to remain static. This point should not be lost on the Thai, and not soon forgotten.

I pray Thailand find the medicine to expunge this sickness and restore some semblance of trusted government. It is not easy. I just hope the military acts fast to get ahead of the mounting pressure the "status quo" fools will bring to bare. They will bring pain, sanctions, pressure, personal bank seizures, and travel restrictions, etc. if the generals move quickly they can stay two steps ahead of the sanctions by virtues of controlling the news cycle. "just do it,"

[JRSoul]

The pigeon is the symbol of democracy? I thought it was the seagull; because politicians fly in, make a lot of noise, eat everything they can, spread shit all over the place, and fly out again.

[AleG]

Coups vs the natural democratic or representative electoral system? I have always believed the military should only defend borders, repel invaders, or otherwise as legislatively directed by executive. For the first time I note an example where a military coup may have actually enabled the democratic process; because of it's acting, it may actually save a system that wAs otherwise not ripe, or rotted. Which begs the question:

Is it true that previous coups have set Thailand back, stunted the due process of the march of democracy? I ask because democratic processes do not take hold in all nations equally, monolithically- and poof! Your a democracy. It's been noted adversely that Thailand's coups have variously injured "democracy." Isn't at least plausible that in some instances this mechanism has enabled, or preserved, the notion of representative government? Follow me, here; as an example, if the current political morass was allowed to indefinitely fester you would surely have nothing even resembling a state. Over time there'd be little institutional memory of representative mechanisms, and a prime breeding ground for despotism might ensue. By the very action that those who oppose limited military intervention are we not also overlooking something positive it achieves (in this limited example)? I am confident once a nation is fully despotic the road back is quite perilous. With the disintegration stopped here! Now! Might the institutional yearning and memory remain to enable, hopefully, more success next time?

I hold that when any form of democratic representative government is so corrupt, so saddled with nepotism, collusion, and corruption that only tearing the infection from the roots can save the host. It should never be true that democracy is a suicide pact and that once we have elected to declare ourselves "democracy" we are required to march to the gallows embracing this fantasy even long after it's been hijacked! In this regard, Thailand and America are similar; except Thai ppl have the courage to see their political system is shadows (at least their military sees this now). On this point it is telling that the US firmly endorses the Thai Status Quo; and not because this is a moral imperative of the US Foreign Policy. The US variously supports military, or not, involvement around the world, depending which strongman, dictator, or government is in power. In this case, the US objected to Thai military involvement because the status quo served US purposes. The very thing the Thai Military sought to heal, that issue which the majority of hype Thai people recognize, is the one issue the US sought to remain static. This point should not be lost on the Thai, and not soon forgotten.

I pray Thailand find the medicine to expunge this sickness and restore some semblance of trusted government. It is not easy. I just hope the military acts fast to get ahead of the mounting pressure the "status quo" fools will bring to bare. They will bring pain, sanctions, pressure, personal bank seizures, and travel restrictions, etc. if the generals move quickly they can stay two steps ahead of the sanctions by virtues of controlling the news cycle. "just do it,"

Is it true that previous coups have set Thailand back, stunted the due process of the march of democracy?

Thailand moved from absolute monarchy to something that is supposed to be electoral democracy thanks to a military coup.

[celso]

The army have moved in and blocked them from going down phahonyothin road. The protesters definitely have big balls, they're yelling like crazy at the army. It would just take one to get nervous and fire a shot and things would get really messy.

[cacruden]

A massacre would be the beginning of the end for the coup, as such I am pretty sure they will have a tight leash on those enforcing it. You can no longer say you are doing it to protect lives if you start shooting at your own citizens.

[3NUMBAS]

they come from wealthy backgrounds so they wont dare shootem or they will lose their job

[beautifulthailand99]

Live broadcast on UK Sky news - would say there are at least two hundred protestors - very tense standoff with police in the front line , then unarmed army and armed soldiers behind them. Some are now dispersing. They want to get to Victory Monument apparently.

[bkkjames]

Live broadcast on UK Sky news - would say there are at least two hundred protestors - very tense standoff with police in the front line , then unarmed army and armed soldiers behind them. Some are now dispersing. They want to get to Victory Monument apparently.

I wonder if they have all been video taped and will be rounded up later for breaking rule of 5?

[kingalfred]

Coups vs the natural democratic or representative electoral system? I have always believed the military should only defend borders, repel invaders, or otherwise as legislatively directed by executive. For the first time I note an example where a military coup may have actually enabled the democratic process; because of it's acting, it may actually save a system that wAs otherwise not ripe, or rotted. Which begs the question:

Is it true that previous coups have set Thailand back, stunted the due process of the march of democracy? I ask because democratic processes do not take hold in all nations equally, monolithically- and poof! Your a democracy. It's been noted adversely that Thailand's coups have variously injured "democracy." Isn't at least plausible that in some instances this mechanism has enabled, or preserved, the notion of representative government? Follow me, here; as an example, if the current political morass was allowed to indefinitely fester you would surely have nothing even resembling a state. Over time there'd be little institutional memory of representative mechanisms, and a prime breeding ground for despotism might ensue. By the very action that those who oppose limited military intervention are we not also overlooking something positive it achieves (in this limited example)? I am confident once a nation is fully despotic the road back is quite perilous. With the disintegration stopped here! Now! Might the institutional yearning and memory remain to enable, hopefully, more success next time?

I hold that when any form of democratic representative government is so corrupt, so saddled with nepotism, collusion, and corruption that only tearing the infection from the roots can save the host. It should never be true that democracy is a suicide pact and that once we have elected to declare ourselves "democracy" we are required to march to the gallows embracing this fantasy even long after it's been hijacked! In this regard, Thailand and America are similar; except Thai ppl have the courage to see their political system is shadows (at least their military sees this now). On this point it is telling that the US firmly endorses the Thai Status Quo; and not because this is a moral imperative of the US Foreign Policy. The US variously supports military, or not, involvement around the world, depending which strongman, dictator, or government is in power. In this case, the US objected to Thai military involvement because the status quo served US purposes. The very thing the Thai Military sought to heal, that issue which the majority of hype Thai people recognize, is the one issue the US sought to remain static. This point should not be lost on the Thai, and not soon forgotten.

I pray Thailand find the medicine to expunge this sickness and restore some semblance of trusted government. It is not easy. I just hope the military acts fast to get ahead of the mounting pressure the "status quo" fools will bring to bare. They will bring pain, sanctions, pressure, personal bank seizures, and travel restrictions, etc. if the generals move quickly they can stay two steps ahead of the sanctions by virtues of controlling the news cycle. "just do it,"

nothing will change Everything that happens in Thailand is a result of what is engrained in the people and institutions

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[Jip99]

They are summoning university lecturers, Thai people need to get on the streets and protest against this today

I am not sure a Falang should be encouraging illegal activity.

i would now bring out the water canons.

[smedly]

these students are not helping at all, why don't they butt out and see were this goes - the path has been taken and not really much choice now - it has to run it's course

I haven't seen too much to criticise up to now, they are mopping up all the rally sites and now need to mop up the mess PTP have left the country in - which isn't pretty I'd imagine - so just let them get on with it

I'm keenly interested in the governments finances

[beautifulthailand99]

Back to Sky News protest has appeared to disperse.

[michaelscottfan]

these students are not helping at all, why don't they butt out and see were this goes - the path has been taken and not really much choice now - it has to run it's course

I haven't seen too much to criticise up to now, they are mopping up all the rally sites and now need to mop up the mess PTP have left the country in - which isn't pretty I'd imagine - so just let them get on with it

I'm keenly interested in the governments finances

I don't think you need it spelled out to you, but just in case: The goal of the military is to further erode voter rights with their "Reforms" by making either the Senate fully appointed or Parliament partially appointed. This is unacceptable and represents a form of fascism where the power of governance is removed from the people of Thailand and given to a small group of well connected elites. These kids are brave and know exactly what they're doing, and you should show them the proper respect. They're fighting for your rights, not that you deserve it with how flippantly you're willing to throw it away.

[smedly]

these students are not helping at all, why don't they butt out and see were this goes - the path has been taken and not really much choice now - it has to run it's course

I haven't seen too much to criticise up to now, they are mopping up all the rally sites and now need to mop up the mess PTP have left the country in - which isn't pretty I'd imagine - so just let them get on with it

I'm keenly interested in the governments finances

I don't think you need it spelled out to you, but just in case: The goal of the military is to further erode voter rights with their "Reforms" by making either the Senate fully appointed or Parliament partially appointed. This is unacceptable and represents a form of fascism where the power of governance is removed from the people of Thailand and given to a small group of well connected elites. These kids are brave and know exactly what they're doing, and you should show them the proper respect. They're fighting for your rights, not that you deserve it with how flippantly you're willing to throw it away.

well you are making a lot of claims and accusations in that post that I for one am not aware of - perhaps you can show everyone the source for these claims

and you are correct - I really don't need anything spelled out thanks - I am more than capable of thinking for myself - and cut the personal crap out - it's not welcome here

[Mackie]

It's more likely those kids are the same ones who lit candles and changed red shirts with white shirts. They're fighting for no one's rights. All they do is stir unnecessary trouble on behalf of one very bitter and selfish man.

"I will defend the democracy with my life."

Thaksin Shinawatra

We all know what happened. He took the money and ran. My message to students or anyone else is a very simple one. It's really not worth losing your life because of that greedy bastard. Be patient, life will get back to normal soon.

[Siripon]

these students are not helping at all, why don't they butt out and see were this goes - the path has been taken and not really much choice now - it has to run it's course

I haven't seen too much to criticise up to now, they are mopping up all the rally sites and now need to mop up the mess PTP have left the country in - which isn't pretty I'd imagine - so just let them get on with it

I'm keenly interested in the governments finances

I don't think you need it spelled out to you, but just in case: The goal of the military is to further erode voter rights with their "Reforms" by making either the Senate fully appointed or Parliament partially appointed. This is unacceptable and represents a form of fascism where the power of governance is removed from the people of Thailand and given to a small group of well connected elites. These kids are brave and know exactly what they're doing, and you should show them the proper respect. They're fighting for your rights, not that you deserve it with how flippantly you're willing to throw it away.

Well connected elites you say, well that sums up Pheua Thai, exPM, a clueless daughter of the owner, Foreign Minister, equally clueless cousin, not to mention the roles played by Somchai, Yaowapa and Pojaman. The Pheua Thai MPs had no rights,never mind the people.

There is no way the junta wNt Parliament to only be partly elected, this is pue conjecture on your part. As for the Senate, a fully elected body is useless as a

check and balance when it's composed of the relatives of the MPs., look at the senators ladt week, the elected ones in PT's wing rushed off to see their master in Singapore, useless for the country.

[celso]

It's more likely those kids are the same ones who lit candles and changed red shirts with white shirts. They're fighting for no one's rights. All they do is stir unnecessary trouble on behalf of one very bitter and selfish man.

"I will defend the democracy with my life."

Thaksin Shinawatra

We all know what happened. He took the money and ran. My message to students or anyone else is a very simple one. It's really not worth losing your life because of that greedy bastard. Be patient, life will get back to normal soon.

Yeah you're right, the yellows seem to support the coup, so anyone else must be red. They're the only two colors in the som-tam spectrum.

Just for reference, did Thaksin pay these protesters himself? Do they get a premium because they're risking arrest? Thanks.