Delayed! Why flying in China is hard.

[craigt3365]

Flying in China? Prepare for lengthy airport delays.

The country's largest airports, serving the mega-cities of Shanghai and Beijing, suffer more flights delays than almost anywhere else in the world.

In June 2013, only 18% of flights made their departure times at Beijing Capital International Airport, according to data from FlightStats.

Shanghai was little improved, logging an on-time departure rate of 29%. A whopping 34% of flights were delayed by more than 45 minutes, while 3% were canceled outright.

Continued:

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/companies/2014/05/28/china-aviation/

[JLCrab]

In the old days it was CAAC affectionately known as "China Airlines Always Cancels"

[ezzra]

With so many planes in the air and with so many more wanting to travel by air

and with ever decreasing air fares by LCC (low cost carriers) there is no wonder

why the delays are occurring, also, it's a great mystery you don't hear of more

frequent air disasters there, not that I wish then any....

[topt]

I used to fly regularly from Guangzhou to BKK, normally on a Friday evening. I would say 75% of departures were late with it getting worse and worse from about 6 years ago. Often had a 2-3 hour delay for a flight that took less than 3 hours!

The main problem is that the flight to BKK would be on a plane that had come from another, or several other Chinese cities. Any delay at one of these would then have a knock on effect. This would likely be worse for Beijing/Shanghai.

The distances in China are huge. Guangzhou to Shanghai/Beijing takes longer to fly then GZ to BKK (and probably as far again to the northern part of China). Also any sort of bad weather seemed to affect flights far more than I remembered from Europe.

The stats do not surprise me at all.....

[impulse]

They're also sneaky.

They'll list a 4 hour flight as a 7 hour flight. That way, they can be 3 hours late on departure and still get you there "on time".

Kind of stinks when I have to go to the airport 3 hours before the scheduled arrival because my visitor may just show up that early...or maybe not and I'm left picking my nose for 3 hours waiting.

[nomad127]

When I lived in China and traveled around SE ASIA, on my return international flights into Shenzhen, we always had to wait for an official to come to the plane, look over the manifest and wait for the stewardesses to spray something throughout the plane (sanitizer?). This took usually around a 30 minute delay, before passengers could disembark.

[Mudcrab]

They're also sneaky.

They'll list a 4 hour flight as a 7 hour flight. That way, they can be 3 hours late on departure and still get you there "on time".

Kind of stinks when I have to go to the airport 3 hours before the scheduled arrival because my visitor may just show up that early...or maybe not and I'm left picking my nose for 3 hours waiting.

Good to see your Thainess development is coming along well.

[impulse]

When I lived in China and traveled around SE ASIA, on my return international flights into Shenzhen, we always had to wait for an official to come to the plane, look over the manifest and wait for the stewardesses to spray something throughout the plane (sanitizer?). This took usually around a 30 minute delay, before passengers could disembark.

They started spraying the sanitizer on planes when SARS hit. Then again when swine flu (or was it bird flu?) hit.

I was on several flights where they actually came on board and did the laser thermometer on everyone's forehead in the plane before they'd let anyone deplane. I hate to think what they'd have done had anyone on my row of seats tested sick.

[Greg Nixon]

Two problems in Shanghai - one the agent said there was no flight when there was one. I eventually got a refund. A lineup made me late and I missed my flight. Other than those two flights i had no problems in China and flew multiple times.

[bangon04]

More than once my "First" Class seat / flight has been cancelled and I have been rebooked into cattle class - take it or leave it. No refund no apology even. The first few times I tried complaining, but even Star Alliance says something about "what else can you expect in china...."

[AhFarangJa]

They're also sneaky.

They'll list a 4 hour flight as a 7 hour flight. That way, they can be 3 hours late on departure and still get you there "on time".

Kind of stinks when I have to go to the airport 3 hours before the scheduled arrival because my visitor may just show up that early...or maybe not and I'm left picking my nose for 3 hours waiting.

Well, at least you will be in good company there.

[impulse]

They're also sneaky.

They'll list a 4 hour flight as a 7 hour flight. That way, they can be 3 hours late on departure and still get you there "on time".

Kind of stinks when I have to go to the airport 3 hours before the scheduled arrival because my visitor may just show up that early...or maybe not and I'm left picking my nose for 3 hours waiting.

Well, at least you will be in good company there.

I've even considered growing the ubiquitous Asian 2" pinkie finger nail so I can fit right in...though it's mostly in China that I've seen those.

[wileycoyote]

Right I will avoid china

[squarethecircle]

The flip-side is the bullet trains between major cities, eg: 5 hours Beijing to Sh and the trains stick to schedule. That won't help for cross-country journeys such as Kunming to the east coast, as those trains are much slower. Unless you're in a real.hurry then seems train is a good alternative (but the toilets stink).

[blemley]

The more you know about Chinese Aviation the more you will want to avoid it. As far as airlines Schedules are concerned a lot of the delays are caused by the system of government, their military and their society. Sure china is a fairly large country but it has very few airports. You would think that airlines travel would be smoother. One of the big problems is that the military owns all the airspace and they just let the "civilian" airlines use a small part of it. So the traffic is choked down to just small pieces of airspace. It is like taking two eight lane high ways and making it go through a two lane road. You just can't fly in a direct line like you can in the rest of the planet. The military has all sorts of space roped off whether they are using it or not. So any little hickup causes a larger delay than necessary. I think their in trail spacing is large as well.

There are many other serious problems with aviation in china that don't affect schedule except just being plain complicated. Use at your own risk.

[Greg Nixon]

I find most of the claims on flying in China ridiculous compared to my own experience. You ever hear of Luoyang or Chongchang ? They have new modern airports and they fly direct. Claims of flying zigzag patterns to get to your destination and lengthy delays seem ludicrous compared to my own experience. Yes China is going through a mega growth stage and many new systems and expanded systems are suffering from some stress.

I am sure these will be ironed out.

Passing on China because of these small problems would be like passing on the USA because of their gun laws and violence. China is a remarkable country with a vast array of experiences. I would return there to travel at any opportunity.

[ozyjon]

Went to China once (Chongqing) for a 5 day seminar,

booked the flight back after 2 days

had to go to the toilet at the airport because the flight

took so long to depart

it smelled so bad i threw up

China = NEVER

[Greg Nixon]

The more you know about Chinese Aviation the more you will want to avoid it. As far as airlines Schedules are concerned a lot of the delays are caused by the system of government, their military and their society. Sure china is a fairly large country but it has very few airports. You would think that airlines travel would be smoother. One of the big problems is that the military owns all the airspace and they just let the "civilian" airlines use a small part of it. So the traffic is choked down to just small pieces of airspace. It is like taking two eight lane high ways and making it go through a two lane road. You just can't fly in a direct line like you can in the rest of the planet. The military has all sorts of space roped off whether they are using it or not. So any little hickup causes a larger delay than necessary. I think their in trail spacing is large as well.

There are many other serious problems with aviation in china that don't affect schedule except just being plain complicated. Use at your own risk.

I lived in China for two years and saw the military only twice. Once they were shovelling snow off the highway. Once there was a short delay on a highway as military operations dictated that the army cross the highway. I believe most of the claims here are because the USA is unable to coerce China as they have done in much of the world.

I travelled and worked a lot in China, the biggest travel delays were in automobiles on newly constructed highways that were still under construction, but a two hour delay in China compared to thousands of hours of enjoyment is nothing. I have travelled a lot in the world and i have found that it is best to relax and enjoy the experience. Nothing is going to go exactly as planned because the world is not planned specifically for your convenience. I usually find alternative ways to enjoy myself instead of stressing.

[jobin]

The china military airspace thing is quite accurate. Hong Kong airport suffers problems becoz of the nearness to the mainland and the refusal of the china military to permit additional flight patterns over 'their' airspace.

China also suffers a low personal service attitude due to massive population and historical notions of 'guanxi' or relationships. Generally speaking if one chinese person has no established relationship with the next person, then there will be no consideration for the welfare, or even the existence, of the other. The kid who, 2 years ago, lay on the street in GuangZhou dying had no 'guanxi' with the folks who passed by, hence they passed by and he died.

Never have i found the trains late but service, cleanliness, and comfort may be very short. My recent china domestic air flight from small city in north to Shenzhen was 45 mins parked before takeoff, arrived on time, and served horrid breakfast of western bakery junk.

China is stepping out of the past, wondering which way to go and deeply resentful that the available models to follow are the western cultural models of technology, foods, clothing, cosmetics, and unfortunately, military solutions to disagreements.

[Strangebrew]

If you ever seen a Chinese fire drill you wouldn't be asking this question.

[elzach]

Two problems:

1) As pointed out before, the military owns most of the air space. Lately, because of the debacle in airports like Beijing, they promised they will release more space to civil aviation.

2) Customer service is practically an unknown concept in China, especially for the airlines. So if it takes extra effort and money to get flights ready, they would rather choose to have passengers wait for hours. It's a "CCP mentality": you're just cattle to be transported.

Btw, many of those delays mentioned in the article were followed by violent arguments between staff and passengers.

[Tomtomtom69]

I used to fly regularly from Guangzhou to BKK, normally on a Friday evening. I would say 75% of departures were late with it getting worse and worse from about 6 years ago. Often had a 2-3 hour delay for a flight that took less than 3 hours!

The main problem is that the flight to BKK would be on a plane that had come from another, or several other Chinese cities. Any delay at one of these would then have a knock on effect. This would likely be worse for Beijing/Shanghai.

The distances in China are huge. Guangzhou to Shanghai/Beijing takes longer to fly then GZ to BKK (and probably as far again to the northern part of China). Also any sort of bad weather seemed to affect flights far more than I remembered from Europe.

The stats do not surprise me at all.....

In that case you're better off flying on THAI Airways or another foreign carrier for the BKK-CAN leg, besides THAI is a far superior airline to any Chinese carrier with better food and service. I've flown into and out of China many times for business and work (on international routes, only ever to/from Kunming KMG though) for other airports I've flown only to/from Kunming on domestic flights (for example KMG-Shanghai Hongqiao, Shanghai Pudong-KMG, KMG-Chongqing-KMG), so my experience has been that foreign carriers going to international destinations are usually on time, whereas domestic operations can be delayed significantly.

[topt]

I used to fly regularly from Guangzhou to BKK, normally on a Friday evening. I would say 75% of departures were late with it getting worse and worse from about 6 years ago. Often had a 2-3 hour delay for a flight that took less than 3 hours!

The main problem is that the flight to BKK would be on a plane that had come from another, or several other Chinese cities. Any delay at one of these would then have a knock on effect. This would likely be worse for Beijing/Shanghai.

The distances in China are huge. Guangzhou to Shanghai/Beijing takes longer to fly then GZ to BKK (and probably as far again to the northern part of China). Also any sort of bad weather seemed to affect flights far more than I remembered from Europe.

The stats do not surprise me at all.....

In that case you're better off flying on THAI Airways or another foreign carrier for the BKK-CAN leg, besides THAI is a far superior airline to any Chinese carrier with better food and service. I've flown into and out of China many times for business and work (on international routes, only ever to/from Kunming KMG though) for other airports I've flown only to/from Kunming on domestic flights (for example KMG-Shanghai Hongqiao, Shanghai Pudong-KMG, KMG-Chongqing-KMG), so my experience has been that foreign carriers going to international destinations are usually on time, whereas domestic operations can be delayed significantly.

Note I used the past tense - but otherwise yes I would generally agree. I flew Thai a few times (once forced a no charge change to Thai from China Southern due to the delay) and generally they were more punctual.

[impulse]

Sadly, I noticed very little difference in service quality or on time performance between China Eastern, Air China, and most US based airlines when flying across the pond in the cheap seats. It was a treat to fly Asiana and Korean Air- and even Air Canada was head and shoulders above the US airlines in the Star Alliance where I had all my miles- at least in the cheap seats. I can't speak for business and first class..