Suthep defends his riot control role in 2010

[webfact]

Suthep defends his riot control role in 2010



BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, former deputy prime minister, appeared at the Criminal Court Monday morning to defend his role in cracking rioters in 2010 which resulted in many redshirt rioters dead and injured.

He testified in the court for a case he filed against Department of Special Investigation (DSI) former director-general Tarit Pengdit and three other DSI senior officials of malfeasance and power abuse for indicting murder and attempted murder charges on former premier Abhisit Vejjajiva and him in connection with the legitimate crackdown of rioters between April and May 2010.

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level when men in black emerged from among the rioters and started to fire at soldiers with assault rifles, prompting the need for self-defence.

He said he alone ordered the shooting and Abhisit did not give any shooting order.

Abhisit has earlier testified in the court on the case.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/suthep-defends-riot-control-role-2010/


-- Thai PBS 2014-06-09

[lomatopo]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

[gemini81]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Some buildings still upstanding thanks to him putting an end to the ludicrous terror and rioting, looting and burning.

[casualbiker]

Riot control around the world have different techniques. Maybe they were not prepared for what happened after the Police didn't do their job!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[winstonc]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

fortunatley your not a judge with a pre-planned verdict eh

[rabas]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Any you would stop reds trying to set fire to a petrol truck just how? Blowing air?

[Fat Haggis]

I don't think that admission of ordering the protesters to be shot in the legs below the knee will have done him any favours. People can still bleed out in less than 45 seconds if they lose a limb if there's a severed artery.

I could see in his defence if he stated that the ammunition to be used was not solid enough in which to cause loss of limb or life, not too familiar with the levels of buckshot, I do believe that the larger the number of pellets, the greater the spread??

[Tatsujin]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Tatsujin

[Swiss1960]

Is there any other politician that you could name (maybe just one on the red side...) who goes to court when ordered and answers questions and - even more - admits to what he did and ordered??

Chapeau, Khun Suthep.

[Morch]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Not justifying orders, decision or application - but I think instructions to aim bellow knee level (or similar phrasing) aren't that

rare in other armies as well. This is more about defining that the shooting is not intended to kill, setting an upper bar the

soldiers. Would be pretty standard to set something of the sort as guideline.

Obviously, better in theory than in practice.

Not sure if it has much to do with Suthep being a fine upstanding gentleman or not, it is more a procedural decision someone

has to take and be responsible for. I am guessing the army generals weren't going anywhere without clear signed orders, and

that Suthep was It (not saying he was unwilling or forced to).

[Bernard Flint]

2 wrongs dont make a right

Sunday bloody sunday springs to mind ???????

[jaidam]

I don't think that admission of ordering the protesters to be shot in the legs below the knee will have done him any favours. People can still bleed out in less than 45 seconds if they lose a limb if there's a severed artery.

I could see in his defence if he stated that the ammunition to be used was not solid enough in which to cause loss of limb or life, not too familiar with the levels of buckshot, I do believe that the larger the number of pellets, the greater the spread??

If the rambunctious reds were worried about having a limb blown off, they probably should not have been trying to burn down central Bangkok and carrying out a terror campaign to reinstall their dictator of choice. I could have told them myself it would only end in tears.

[Mango Bob]

I guess the soldiers who fired below the knees were not sharpshooters. There sites must have been off a meter or so.

[whybother]

Is there any other politician that you could name (maybe just one on the red side...) who goes to court when ordered and answers questions and - even more - admits to what he did and ordered??

Chapeau, Khun Suthep.

Not quite "when ordered". I think he was ordered to go in December.

[londonthai]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

Edited June 9, 2014 by londonthai

[Fat Haggis]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Any you would stop reds trying to set fire to a petrol truck just how? Blowing air?

Baton rounds (Plastic/Rubber bullets) they worked alright for us in Northern Ireland, I can't recall live ammo having ever been used when we were Duty Internal Security Company. I believe that the ROE's changed significantly in NI after Bloody Sunday.

The Army and their Commanders on the ground during these riots in 2010 have been given immunity from prosecution, they're the ones who changed their ROE's when live rounds were used.

It's very easy to sit and quarter back what various people should have done, I'm basing my post on past experience, but I can assure you, as an 18 year old, getting petrol bombed and rocks thrown at you by thousands of pissed off protesters is a very scary and intimidating experience, and the Young Thai soldiers would have felt the same fear and apprehension I did during the 1980's with nothing but a perspex 6 foot shield in your hands (rifles were slung over our backs)

It's very easy to sit in judgement, and there's a saying in the Military, it's better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.

[Morch]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

As small correction to your first line - this is Suthep's version of events. I don't think they are quite through with him yet.

I think the casualties has more to do with the RTA not being up for the task of crowd control and dispersal. You cannot

seriously claim that all those killed were armed, or even wore black shirts.

[Thailand]

Is this the final push?

[bigbamboo]

I'm afraid once Suthep gave the orders to shoot live rounds the damage was done but at least he's admitted his guilt which is more than you can say for the man who gave the orders for the men in black to open fire.

[Morch]

I guess the soldiers who fired below the knees were not sharpshooters. There sites must have been off a meter or so.

Most surely weren't.

Most weren't ready for this anyway.

Even when shooting instructions are to aim overhead, at the sky, at the ground or wherever, people end up dead.

Happens all over the world. Only way to counter this is to send the troops in without ammo...but then it could have

ended with a different casualty list.

[gemini81]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

As small correction to your first line - this is Suthep's version of events. I don't think they are quite through with him yet.

I think the casualties has more to do with the RTA not being up for the task of crowd control and dispersal. You cannot

seriously claim that all those killed were armed, or even wore black shirts.

They were idiots raising hell, shooting and rioting, and paid and dressed in red, told to go home, fought troops, who got what they certainly sought & deserved; that we can claim.

[Morch]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Any you would stop reds trying to set fire to a petrol truck just how? Blowing air?

Wouldn't know that shooting live ammo at the direction of a petrol truck is the best military move available....

[jaidam]

I guess the soldiers who fired below the knees were not sharpshooters. There sites must have been off a meter or so.

Most surely weren't.

Most weren't ready for this anyway.

Even when shooting instructions are to aim overhead, at the sky, at the ground or wherever, people end up dead.

Happens all over the world. Only way to counter this is to send the troops in without ammo...but then it could have

ended with a different casualty list.

Bear in mind there was something like 700k rounds allegedly fired, and about 160 people in total that were hit(including shots fired by the heavily armed red ronins). In short, a blind, dumb and deaf kid with his hands cuffed behind his back could have out-performed the army in terms of accurate shooting. Unless of course, the army was NOT actually shooting at the rampaging reds, which I suspect is more likely. I'd say the vast majority of deaths were simply friendly fire by team rouge. If they backed off on the yabba and lao khao their accuracy would likely improve.

[Morch]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

As small correction to your first line - this is Suthep's version of events. I don't think they are quite through with him yet.

I think the casualties has more to do with the RTA not being up for the task of crowd control and dispersal. You cannot

seriously claim that all those killed were armed, or even wore black shirts.

They were idiots raising hell, shooting and rioting, and paid and dressed in red, told to go home, fought troops, who got what they certainly sought & deserved; that we can claim.

I do not believe all were paid, all were shooting and all fought troops.

Certainly some were. Probably quite a few were a mirror image of the PDRC crowd.

Guess that the casualty list includes both sorts.

[Bernard Flint]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

The elite yellow farangs, forget about this

[Roadman]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Any you would stop reds trying to set fire to a petrol truck just how? Blowing air?

Baton rounds (Plastic/Rubber bullets) they worked alright for us in Northern Ireland, I can't recall live ammo having ever been used when we were Duty Internal Security Company. I believe that the ROE's changed significantly in NI after Bloody Sunday.

The Army and their Commanders on the ground during these riots in 2010 have been given immunity from prosecution, they're the ones who changed their ROE's when live rounds were used.

It's very easy to sit and quarter back what various people should have done, I'm basing my post on past experience, but I can assure you, as an 18 year old, getting petrol bombed and rocks thrown at you by thousands of pissed off protesters is a very scary and intimidating experience, and the Young Thai soldiers would have felt the same fear and apprehension I did during the 1980's with nothing but a perspex 6 foot shield in your hands (rifles were slung over our backs)

It's very easy to sit in judgement, and there's a saying in the Military, it's better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.

Good thoughts and insight Fat Haggis.

You can add into the mix also that fear and apprehension would be greater after some of their Commanders had already been taken out with war weapons by Thaksins Black Ronins and the same Thaksins scumbags were still at large with snipers rifles hence the game of cat and mouse with the Armies snipers that was going on during a good part of the conflict to see who could gain control over the upper level buildings snipers nests. Can still remember well the footage when troops were being pushed forward to secure the next area and a lot of them would be looking nervously up. Whats coming from in front is bad enough for young troops but when snipers are also on the loose in among high rise buildings then the fear would be extreme.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Roadman

[Tatsujin]

So, at last, for all you Abhisit haters, it wasn't him that gave the order.

As for the shooting "order" itself, I'm surprised it didn't come much, much sooner when dealing with armed terrorists that were terrorizing the civilian population at the time. They had plenty of warnings to leave, they chose to stay, they chose to shoot, bomb, kill, maim and terrorize.

At the end of the day, Thaksin got exactly what he wanted at that time . . . and he paid well for it I am sure.

As small correction to your first line - this is Suthep's version of events. I don't think they are quite through with him yet.

I think the casualties has more to do with the RTA not being up for the task of crowd control and dispersal. You cannot

seriously claim that all those killed were armed, or even wore black shirts.

I'm sure they're far from being done with questioning Suthep, but the fact remains he and he alone has claimed responsibility for the order being given. Case closed unless they magically find some piece of paper with Abhisit's signature on it ordering the shootings.

And again, please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't make any claim that all that were killed were armed. The facts are however very clear, there was a large Thaksin-sponsored mob that took over large areas of Bangkok for months, the residents of Bangkok and the infrastructure were being shot, bombed and burned daily, warnings were given, opprtunities were given for people to leave, and labeling them as terrorists was more than warranted and justified. They should have known what was coming. Exactly what Thaksin had planned from day 1.

[Fat Haggis]

I guess the soldiers who fired below the knees were not sharpshooters. There sites must have been off a meter or so.

Most surely weren't.

Most weren't ready for this anyway.

Even when shooting instructions are to aim overhead, at the sky, at the ground or wherever, people end up dead.

Happens all over the world. Only way to counter this is to send the troops in without ammo...but then it could have

ended with a different casualty list.

Bear in mind there was something like 700k rounds allegedly fired, and about 160 people in total that were hit(including shots fired by the heavily armed red ronins). In short, a blind, dumb and deaf kid with his hands cuffed behind his back could have out-performed the army in terms of accurate shooting. Unless of course, the army was NOT actually shooting at the rampaging reds, which I suspect is more likely. I'd say the vast majority of deaths were simply friendly fire by team rouge. If they backed off on the yabba and lao khao their accuracy would likely improve.

Have you ever tried shooting at a moving target ?? real life gunfights are nothing like Call of Duty, huge amounts of ammo are used to "win the firefight"

[gemini81]

O, so these japanees and italian journalists, as well as those civilians at the temple in a red cross tent, and another some 80 civilians, they all were armed and not shot at head and hart

The elite yellow farangs, forget about this

Its a nice counter balance to hubbies of ex bar girl red shirt families, and their lost cause. The yin and the yang. Elite thinkers and bar fly drinkers, hahaha.

Edited June 9, 2014 by gemini81

[AleG]

Suthep admitted ordering troops to shoot at rioters with real shotguns but at below the knee level

Oh, that's OK then. What a fine upstanding gentleman.

Any you would stop reds trying to set fire to a petrol truck just how? Blowing air?

Baton rounds (Plastic/Rubber bullets) they worked alright for us in Northern Ireland, I can't recall live ammo having ever been used when we were Duty Internal Security Company. I believe that the ROE's changed significantly in NI after Bloody Sunday.

The Army and their Commanders on the ground during these riots in 2010 have been given immunity from prosecution, they're the ones who changed their ROE's when live rounds were used.

It's very easy to sit and quarter back what various people should have done, I'm basing my post on past experience, but I can assure you, as an 18 year old, getting petrol bombed and rocks thrown at you by thousands of pissed off protesters is a very scary and intimidating experience, and the Young Thai soldiers would have felt the same fear and apprehension I did during the 1980's with nothing but a perspex 6 foot shield in your hands (rifles were slung over our backs)

It's very easy to sit in judgement, and there's a saying in the Military, it's better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6.

The Red Shirts were armed with things that carried a lot more punch than molotovs and rocks, so you may try to extrapolate from your experience what the Thai conscripts had to deal with.