NCPO's economic board approves 3 trillion baht infrastructure projects

[Emster23]

One of the greatest services the new rulers could do is to require open and transparent budgets and expenditures. Post it all on the net, open for anyone to look at and question. Maybe I missed the part where this will be the norm on transport schemes. Maybe the army has put a twist on Harry Truman's "The Buck Stops Here": took it too literally? Let us not pretend that the army is also a major player in all sorts of non-military areas of the economy.

[Gonzo the Face]

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

aaah but the difference sonny is that yingys 2trillion baht loan didnt have to say where the money was spent..no checks and balances..but i guess you forgot that little chestnut eh

So you're saying a military dictatorship is better at spending money than an elected government where opposition members of parliament have a chance to look at and debate the bills out in the open? Oh dear me some of the readers on this forum have really lost it....

I disagree with what you are writing Anantha92. He is not saying the military dictatorship [as you term it] is better. He is saying the PEOPLE who are making decisions now may be better than your apparent friends, the last group. Its not military or not, its not PTP or not, Its not Dems or not...... Its PEOPLE who appear to have a stronger interest in the country than in the pockets of their chosen groups. So many of the projects instituted by the old group , seem to have gone sour, the old group was informed they were going sour, but still they couldn't stop them because of the greed of certain individuals and their group......and now we have to listen to their excuse makers, trying to justify their prove wrongdoings weren't wrong. Makes one wonder about the excuse makers who cannot admit wrong doing on the part of their idols....... old saying comes to mind ...... birds of a feather.

[HUAHIN62]

Now waiting for more information on how those 3 trillion Baht will be budgetted. I would assume a larger part of it spread over the 2015 - 2022 yearly National Budgets.

Rube, Excluding high speed Hi So BKK Chiang Mai service----YES Good. All that money to be got to be paid back over 50 years has been halted.

Out of national budgets and "private" no 50 year debt that the Shins had planned. They would have been well in the trough and then sod Thailand, who would have had this interest to pay back...it would have totally ruined the Kingdom.

The Thai government budget is +- B 2,8 tn per year. If they want to finance this through the budget it would be +- B 430 bn additional per year over the next 7 years. As the budget for next year was already approved by the junta and this 2015 budget is inline with the last budget, it is clear that they are going to finance these projects off budget (through bonds and loans), the same as what PTP proposed. Due to the limitations to my freedom of speech I will stop here, but anyone with more than one brain cell can see whats going on.

[belg]

1000 helicopters or fighter jets ?

[Gonzo the Face]

Yingluck administration using 2 trillion and putting country in debt for next 50 years = BAD.

NCPO approving 3 trillion = Good.

I'm confused.

Yes ... I agree with you....

You are confused.... because you want to be....

If you can't read and/or comprehend the article..... ask for help..the difference is spelled out to those who wish to see/read it.

A mind it a terrible thing to waste

but here not as bad as loosing face...

[rubl]

Now waiting for more information on how those 3 trillion Baht will be budgetted. I would assume a larger part of it spread over the 2015 - 2022 yearly National Budgets.

Rube, Excluding high speed Hi So BKK Chiang Mai service----YES Good. All that money to be got to be paid back over 50 years has been halted.

Out of national budgets and "private" no 50 year debt that the Shins had planned. They would have been well in the trough and then sod Thailand, who would have had this interest to pay back...it would have totally ruined the Kingdom.

The Thai government budget is +- B 2,8 tn per year. If they want to finance this through the budget it would be +- B 430 bn additional per year over the next 7 years. As the budget for next year was already approved by the junta and this 2015 budget is inline with the last budget, it is clear that they are going to finance these projects off budget (through bonds and loans), the same as what PTP proposed. Due to the limitations to my freedom of speech I will stop here, but anyone with more than one brain cell can see whats going on.

Lack of details, but earlier it was reported/suggested that a number of items would drop from the 2014/2015 National Budget (compared with the last Yingluck Administration's 2013/2014 version). Furthermore a number of 'Ministry of Transport' related items would be moved back into the NationalBudget (road maintenance, dual-tracking).

The 2013/2014 NationalBudget was 2.52 trillion with 'planned deficit of 200 billion, the 2014/2015 proposal is 2.6 trillion with planned deficit of 250 billion. Probably in August more details will be available.

[doctorproc156]

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

aaah but the difference sonny is that yingys 2trillion baht loan didnt have to say where the money was spent..no checks and balances..but i guess you forgot that little chestnut eh

So you're saying a military dictatorship is better at spending money than an elected government where opposition members of parliament have a chance to look at and debate the bills out in the open? Oh dear me some of the readers on this forum have really lost it....

I disagree with what you are writing Anantha92. He is not saying the military dictatorship [as you term it] is better. He is saying the PEOPLE who are making decisions now may be better than your apparent friends, the last group. Its not military or not, its not PTP or not, Its not Dems or not...... Its PEOPLE who appear to have a stronger interest in the country than in the pockets of their chosen groups. So many of the projects instituted by the old group , seem to have gone sour, the old group was informed they were going sour, but still they couldn't stop them because of the greed of certain individuals and their group......and now we have to listen to their excuse makers, trying to justify their prove wrongdoings weren't wrong. Makes one wonder about the excuse makers who cannot admit wrong doing on the part of their idols....... old saying comes to mind ...... birds of a feather.

I term it as what it is, I don't know what else to call a single party government run by a military general that threatens to arrest people over liking certain things on facebook. My apparent friends? Why does everything have to be partisan? Thaksin had his merits for helping Thailand recover quickly from the 1997 crisis and did in deed help the poor with his universal healthcare scheme. He was also terrible at managing political / police corruption, drugs and human trafficking. I think you really fail to realize that this isn't the first time Thailand has been run by the military and all the previous times it has been horrendous. Of course all of us here hope that this current military does the right things, but really I'd be a fool to not be skeptical.

Edited June 13, 2014 by anantha92

[Eric Loh]

Now waiting for more information on how those 3 trillion Baht will be budgetted. I would assume a larger part of it spread over the 2015 - 2022 yearly National Budgets.

Rube, Excluding high speed Hi So BKK Chiang Mai service----YES Good. All that money to be got to be paid back over 50 years has been halted.

Out of national budgets and "private" no 50 year debt that the Shins had planned. They would have been well in the trough and then sod Thailand, who would have had this interest to pay back...it would have totally ruined the Kingdom.

The Thai government budget is +- B 2,8 tn per year. If they want to finance this through the budget it would be +- B 430 bn additional per year over the next 7 years. As the budget for next year was already approved by the junta and this 2015 budget is inline with the last budget, it is clear that they are going to finance these projects off budget (through bonds and loans), the same as what PTP proposed. Due to the limitations to my freedom of speech I will stop here, but anyone with more than one brain cell can see whats going on.

Good points. Prayuth did promised a balance budget in 2017. It will be an off budget loan. That way, the government can negotiate for a better loan term. Will the Dem petition the Constitution Court to kill the loan and rule it unconstitutional? What a bunch of losers.

[outre99]

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

aaah but the difference sonny is that yingys 2trillion baht loan didnt have to say where the money was spent..no checks and balances..but i guess you forgot that little chestnut eh

So you're saying a military dictatorship is better at spending money than an elected government where opposition members of parliament have a chance to look at and debate the bills out in the open? Oh dear me some of the readers on this forum have really lost it....

And you must be blind because if you looked around you'd see that this is exactly what's happening. When was the last time the Shin government televised they budgeting meeting for all people to see?

[HUAHIN62]

Now waiting for more information on how those 3 trillion Baht will be budgetted. I would assume a larger part of it spread over the 2015 - 2022 yearly National Budgets.

Rube, Excluding high speed Hi So BKK Chiang Mai service----YES Good. All that money to be got to be paid back over 50 years has been halted.

Out of national budgets and "private" no 50 year debt that the Shins had planned. They would have been well in the trough and then sod Thailand, who would have had this interest to pay back...it would have totally ruined the Kingdom.

The Thai government budget is +- B 2,8 tn per year. If they want to finance this through the budget it would be +- B 430 bn additional per year over the next 7 years. As the budget for next year was already approved by the junta and this 2015 budget is inline with the last budget, it is clear that they are going to finance these projects off budget (through bonds and loans), the same as what PTP proposed. Due to the limitations to my freedom of speech I will stop here, but anyone with more than one brain cell can see whats going on.

Lack of details, but earlier it was reported/suggested that a number of items would drop from the 2014/2015 National Budget (compared with the last Yingluck Administration's 2013/2014 version). Furthermore a number of 'Ministry of Transport' related items would be moved back into the NationalBudget (road maintenance, dual-tracking).

The 2013/2014 NationalBudget was 2.52 trillion with 'planned deficit of 200 billion, the 2014/2015 proposal is 2.6 trillion with planned deficit of 250 billion. Probably in August more details will be available.

Lets see but don't hold your breath. They are lowering taxes and increasing spending with a shrinking economy. One way would be to scrap the rice scheme in total, but then again poll after poll show that the majority Thai's support the scheme (at lower prices - todays poll 56% for scheme at lower prices and 17% at same price). My next question would be who will do the cost benefit analyses of these projects or was that done on the back of a Camel packet, was communities informed about the impact of these projects and was enviromental impact studies completed for these projects? Normally these steps are followed before projects are approved. Rain wash dirt away but sometimes it also causes floods.

[rubl]

So you're saying a military dictatorship is better at spending money than an elected government where opposition members of parliament have a chance to look at and debate the bills out in the open? Oh dear me some of the readers on this forum have really lost it....

And you must be blind because if you looked around you'd see that this is exactly what's happening. When was the last time the Shin government televised they budgeting meeting for all people to see?

That's totally unfair. The Yingluck administration even allowed criminal fugitives to skype in into cabinet meetings

[doctorproc156]

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

aaah but the difference sonny is that yingys 2trillion baht loan didnt have to say where the money was spent..no checks and balances..but i guess you forgot that little chestnut eh

So you're saying a military dictatorship is better at spending money than an elected government where opposition members of parliament have a chance to look at and debate the bills out in the open? Oh dear me some of the readers on this forum have really lost it....

And you must be blind because if you looked around you'd see that this is exactly what's happening. When was the last time the Shin government televised they budgeting meeting for all people to see?

What does the Shin government have anything to do with what I said? My point was that a parliamentary system where opposing parties vote on a bill is far more transparent than a military junta that threatens to arrest people over liking certain things on facebook. Even if PTP doesn't do things transparently as shown in the past, it still provides that extra layer of checks and balances. This has absolutely no checks and balances and you get thrown in jail if you even dare to speak out against them.

Edited June 13, 2014 by anantha92

[rubl]

Good points. Prayuth did promised a balance budget in 2017. It will be an off budget loan. That way, the government can negotiate for a better loan term. Will the Dem petition the Constitution Court to kill the loan and rule it unconstitutional? What a bunch of losers.

THe NCPO stated to keep the goal of a balanced budget by 2017.

The 3 trillion now discussed will be for 2015 - 2022. For 2014/2015 some parts of the 2.2 trillion Yingluck scheme was moved back into the National Budget. Lack of further details make it onll possible to 'assume' or 'suggest' what may or may not be.

Of course to some making anti-Democrat party suggestions is always fun whether is has a relation with the topic or not.

[ginjag]

Now waiting for more information on how those 3 trillion Baht will be budgetted. I would assume a larger part of it spread over the 2015 - 2022 yearly National Budgets.

Rube, Excluding high speed Hi So BKK Chiang Mai service----YES Good. All that money to be got to be paid back over 50 years has been halted.

Out of national budgets and "private" no 50 year debt that the Shins had planned. They would have been well in the trough and then sod Thailand, who would have had this interest to pay back...it would have totally ruined the Kingdom.

The Thai government budget is +- B 2,8 tn per year. If they want to finance this through the budget it would be +- B 430 bn additional per year over the next 7 years. As the budget for next year was already approved by the junta and this 2015 budget is inline with the last budget, it is clear that they are going to finance these projects off budget (through bonds and loans), the same as what PTP proposed. Due to the limitations to my freedom of speech I will stop here, but anyone with more than one brain cell can see whats going on.

Maybe it's a good job we have people like you posting, it's kept us on our feet over the 3 years of PTP, happy for you now to support a non functioning regime.

It was the PTP that was devoid of brain cells or we would not be in this predicament. BUT your thinking this way is Habit rather than normal function.

[rubl]

I think I read that the NCPO was trying to get more people to pay tax, especially those richer ones. The spending in National Budget is increasing from 2.52 to 2.6 trillion, not that much especially with useless items moved out, worthwhile items moved in. The Economy seems back on track to grow 2 - 4% this year.

So let's wait and see.

[Chris Lawrence]

The new Chairman of Thai Airways should have a lot to crow about? So any news on whos uncles/nephews/brothers/sisters have an interest in the companys these contracts will go to or will it be armed service pesonel that will have new work done at their properties?

What are the % of work done around Bangkok compared to the rest of the country? The mitigation works around Bangkok would have to be some of the most important work to get done; as if not done and a repeat of 2011 has a dramatic affect on the countries potential loss of income.

Have to wait and see now?

[Baerboxer]

Of course the Yingluck 3 trillion infracture project was pure wastefulness, well that was the claim the other day, wasn't it?

Now the army approves the same project more or less, so the rightful government's projects get approved after all and quicker than as expected as well.

Soon the army will be asking for guidance from the Shinawatra clan as how to run the country prosperously, after all the country did well economically under Thaksin even if some of you hate to admit it.

aaah but the difference sonny is that yingys 2trillion baht loan didnt have to say where the money was spent..no checks and balances..but i guess you forgot that little chestnut eh

So you're saying a military dictatorship is better at spending money than an elected government where opposition members of parliament have a chance to look at and debate the bills out in the open? Oh dear me some of the readers on this forum have really lost it....

Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open. All in the interests of being able to act quickly (and unaccountably) you understand.

That's one reason why no one trusts them - money vanishes at they won't reveal any details.

So no a government that behaves like that - with some unusual increases in wealth for some of its members is not better at spending money, however they came to power.

[fab4]

Good points. Prayuth did promised a balance budget in 2017. It will be an off budget loan. That way, the government can negotiate for a better loan term. Will the Dem petition the Constitution Court to kill the loan and rule it unconstitutional? What a bunch of losers.

THe NCPO stated to keep the goal of a balanced budget by 2017.

The 3 trillion now discussed will be for 2015 - 2022. For 2014/2015 some parts of the 2.2 trillion Yingluck scheme was moved back into the National Budget. Lack of further details make it onll possible to 'assume' or 'suggest' what may or may not be.

Of course to some making anti-Democrat party suggestions is always fun whether is has a relation with the topic or not.

And to some people making anti-PTP suggestions is always fun whether it has a relation to the topic or not

"That's totally unfair. The Yingluck administration even allowed criminal fugitives to skype in into cabinet meetings"

[fab4]

Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open. All in the interests of being able to act quickly (and unaccountably) you understand.

That's one reason why no one trusts them - money vanishes at they won't reveal any details.

So no a government that behaves like that - with some unusual increases in wealth for some of its members is not better at spending money, however they came to power.

"Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open"

Well not quite......................

Transparency and Traceabiliity of the Infrastructure Project

In answering the many concerns that have been raised about transparency and traceability of the finances of the infrastructure projects, the 2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill

includes measures to ensure the examination of projects i.e. approval by the Cabinet must be received at different stages of the projects. Additionally, the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB), the Budget Bureau, and the Finance Ministry will examine the appropriateness of the projects, and will upload the standard reference prices for public viewing on the website www.gprocurement.so.th.

Furthermore, the obligations per the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548 will also be enforced to ensure financial discipline, as follows:

1. Prior to taking out loans: issuing debt instruments must be accompanied by announcement of prices, maturity periods, and how the instruments are issued;

2. After taking out loans: public announcement of the source, terms and conditions, currency, amount, exchange rate used to convert the currency to Thai baht, interest rates, commission rates, costs, period, paying back the principal, the purpose for which the loans were taken, the conditions and requirements, including other any other information deemed necessary to be disclosed. Public annoucement of this information will be published in the Royal Gazette for the public within 60 days after the loan was made;

3. Within 120 days: the government must report the progress and the results by 120 days after the end of the fiscal year. The evaluation that shows how the project is consistent with the infrastructure project plan and must also be presented to the Parliament and the Senate, as well as allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area (2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill draft, Article 19).

http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf

[rubl]

Good points. Prayuth did promised a balance budget in 2017. It will be an off budget loan. That way, the government can negotiate for a better loan term. Will the Dem petition the Constitution Court to kill the loan and rule it unconstitutional? What a bunch of losers.

THe NCPO stated to keep the goal of a balanced budget by 2017.

The 3 trillion now discussed will be for 2015 - 2022. For 2014/2015 some parts of the 2.2 trillion Yingluck scheme was moved back into the National Budget. Lack of further details make it onll possible to 'assume' or 'suggest' what may or may not be.

Of course to some making anti-Democrat party suggestions is always fun whether is has a relation with the topic or not.

And to some people making anti-PTP suggestions is always fun whether it has a relation to the topic or not

"That's totally unfair. The Yingluck administration even allowed criminal fugitives to skype in into cabinet meetings"

Just being helpful as someone was nasty about the Yingluck administration with

"When was the last time the Shin government televised they budgeting meeting for all people to see?"

[rubl]

Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open. All in the interests of being able to act quickly (and unaccountably) you understand.

That's one reason why no one trusts them - money vanishes at they won't reveal any details.

So no a government that behaves like that - with some unusual increases in wealth for some of its members is not better at spending money, however they came to power.

"Unfortunately PTP's way was to try and remove the chance to look at and debate how money was spent in the open"

Well not quite......................

Transparency and Traceabiliity of the Infrastructure Project

In answering the many concerns that have been raised about transparency and traceability of the finances of the infrastructure projects, the 2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill

includes measures to ensure the examination of projects i.e. approval by the Cabinet must be received at different stages of the projects. Additionally, the National Economic and Social Development Board (NESDB), the Budget Bureau, and the Finance Ministry will examine the appropriateness of the projects, and will upload the standard reference prices for public viewing on the website www.gprocurement.so.th.

Furthermore, the obligations per the Public Debt Management Act, B.E. 2548 will also be enforced to ensure financial discipline, as follows:

1. Prior to taking out loans: issuing debt instruments must be accompanied by announcement of prices, maturity periods, and how the instruments are issued;

2. After taking out loans: public announcement of the source, terms and conditions, currency, amount, exchange rate used to convert the currency to Thai baht, interest rates, commission rates, costs, period, paying back the principal, the purpose for which the loans were taken, the conditions and requirements, including other any other information deemed necessary to be disclosed. Public annoucement of this information will be published in the Royal Gazette for the public within 60 days after the loan was made;

3. Within 120 days: the government must report the progress and the results by 120 days after the end of the fiscal year. The evaluation that shows how the project is consistent with the infrastructure project plan and must also be presented to the Parliament and the Senate, as well as allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area (2.2 trillion baht borrowing bill draft, Article 19).

http://www.thaiembassy.fr/wp-content/uploads/Borrowing-Bill.pdf

Your absolutely right there, my dear fabs. Especially the "allow for the legislation to examine and review the Government's performance in this area" was inspiring and confidence building.

Unfortunately the handling of the Blanket Amnesty Bill doesn't really inspire to have much faith in how the Yingluck Administration would 'implement' such article.

[Morch]

Does seem kind of amazing that they could re-check all aspects of said projects, fix all that needed fixing, scrap the silly

parts and consolidate a revised project list for the future within such a short time frame. Thought these sort of things take

weeks, if not months, in other countries. but hey...TIT.

So yes, the PTP plans were well dodgy, guess not many argue the point. But since there aren't that many details available,

what makes posters think that the current ones are carry a larger measure of transparency, that budgets do not (or will not)

involves the traditional bribes and cuts, or that the projects were indeed re-checked in a thorough professional manner?

Might have missed something, but not that clear that funds will actually come from existing budget. If the idea is to loan the

money, hopefully some mechanism will introduced to supervise the process.

[HUAHIN62]

Now waiting for more information on how those 3 trillion Baht will be budgetted. I would assume a larger part of it spread over the 2015 - 2022 yearly National Budgets.

Rube, Excluding high speed Hi So BKK Chiang Mai service----YES Good. All that money to be got to be paid back over 50 years has been halted.

Out of national budgets and "private" no 50 year debt that the Shins had planned. They would have been well in the trough and then sod Thailand, who would have had this interest to pay back...it would have totally ruined the Kingdom.

The Thai government budget is +- B 2,8 tn per year. If they want to finance this through the budget it would be +- B 430 bn additional per year over the next 7 years. As the budget for next year was already approved by the junta and this 2015 budget is inline with the last budget, it is clear that they are going to finance these projects off budget (through bonds and loans), the same as what PTP proposed. Due to the limitations to my freedom of speech I will stop here, but anyone with more than one brain cell can see whats going on.

Maybe it's a good job we have people like you posting, it's kept us on our feet over the 3 years of PTP, happy for you now to support a non functioning regime.

It was the PTP that was devoid of brain cells or we would not be in this predicament. BUT your thinking this way is Habit rather than normal function.

Hypocrisy have always been a problem with some colour orientated people. My point was that the same projects, funded the same way with the same lack of transparency that was shotdown by many of the yellow tinted poster on TV are now seen as the best thing since the light bulb. By the way if you look at my posts over the years you will notice that I atleast tried to be balanced in my views.

[ginjag]

The Thai government budget is +- B 2,8 tn per year. If they want to finance this through the budget it would be +- B 430 bn additional per year over the next 7 years. As the budget for next year was already approved by the junta and this 2015 budget is inline with the last budget, it is clear that they are going to finance these projects off budget (through bonds and loans), the same as what PTP proposed. Due to the limitations to my freedom of speech I will stop here, but anyone with more than one brain cell can see whats going on.

Maybe it's a good job we have people like you posting, it's kept us on our feet over the 3 years of PTP, happy for you now to support a non functioning regime.

It was the PTP that was devoid of brain cells or we would not be in this predicament. BUT your thinking this way is Habit rather than normal function.

Hypocrisy have always been a problem with some colour orientated people. My point was that the same projects, funded the same way with the same lack of transparency that was shotdown by many of the yellow tinted poster on TV are now seen as the best thing since the light bulb. By the way if you look at my posts over the years you will notice that I atleast tried to be balanced in my views.

Hey, not very balanced if anyone that criticized PTP in your view had to be "Yellow"

When we see the whole package and where the money comes from and accounts to be kept, it will be totally different than PTP JUST borrow attitude.

Even the Dems said do not just borrow get finance from other means. But no they wanted Thailand to be plagued for 50 years of financial problems.

I was never colour orientated, only a critic of the Shin regime. Who said this would have lack of transparency--

Didn't it register to you that this was a project for PTP and the trough ???

Did you have trust in the borrowing ???

To me this is infrastructure that is needed and has been on the cards well before PTP came about.

[Emptyset]

Yingluck administration using 2 trillion and putting country in debt for next 50 years = BAD.

NCPO approving 3 trillion = Good.

I'm confused.

2 problems it was expected that PTPs trillions -large amounts would have gone into the bottomless pit --the second was they just wanted to borrow over 50 years whether Thailand could afford it they didn't care.

This money will go much further-(without the high speed trains) and could well mean better construction/materials used, accounts kept and contracts/guarantees.

The money would be funded from national / private funds over the ( 7 years) ??? No other ways to borrow we could not afford.

Whichever way you look at it, they'd still have to repay the debt, and longterm repayments seem preferable to me. Due to inflation, you often end up paying far less. And most debt simply doesn't get repaid anyway. So this scare story about 50 years of debt is just that, a scare story. The issue is whether Thailand really needs the high speed train and whether the money could be better spent elsewhere. I like the idea in theory, but would tend to agree with others that the money would better be spent elsewhere. Polls have shown a majority in the UK are against the high speed train but various governments have ensured we're still getting it, like it or not.

I actually think it's one of those things people will appreciate when they've got it. But until then...

[smutcakes]

The Thai government budget is +- B 2,8 tn per year. If they want to finance this through the budget it would be +- B 430 bn additional per year over the next 7 years. As the budget for next year was already approved by the junta and this 2015 budget is inline with the last budget, it is clear that they are going to finance these projects off budget (through bonds and loans), the same as what PTP proposed. Due to the limitations to my freedom of speech I will stop here, but anyone with more than one brain cell can see whats going on.

Maybe it's a good job we have people like you posting, it's kept us on our feet over the 3 years of PTP, happy for you now to support a non functioning regime.

It was the PTP that was devoid of brain cells or we would not be in this predicament. BUT your thinking this way is Habit rather than normal function.

Hypocrisy have always been a problem with some colour orientated people. My point was that the same projects, funded the same way with the same lack of transparency that was shotdown by many of the yellow tinted poster on TV are now seen as the best thing since the light bulb. By the way if you look at my posts over the years you will notice that I atleast tried to be balanced in my views.

Hey, not very balanced if anyone that criticized PTP in your view had to be "Yellow"

When we see the whole package and where the money comes from and accounts to be kept, it will be totally different than PTP JUST borrow attitude.

Even the Dems said do not just borrow get finance from other means. But no they wanted Thailand to be plagued for 50 years of financial problems.

I was never colour orientated, only a critic of the Shin regime. Who said this would have lack of transparency--

Didn't it register to you that this was a project for PTP and the trough ???

Did you have trust in the borrowing ???

To me this is infrastructure that is needed and has been on the cards well before PTP came about.

If you dont have the money, how do you not borrow? Surely even issuing Govt bonds is borrowing as it has to be paid back with interest.

Please tell us how they will get the money? Perhaps they will cut their own budget to help fund it?

You seem to know it will all be done properly, so why dont you enlighten the readership how you know so? After all the military has a fantastic track record of fiscal transparency and prudence.

[HUAHIN62]

I think I read that the NCPO was trying to get more people to pay tax, especially those richer ones. The spending in National Budget is increasing from 2.52 to 2.6 trillion, not that much especially with useless items moved out, worthwhile items moved in. The Economy seems back on track to grow 2 - 4% this year.

So let's wait and see.

I agree the only concern is that the budget deficit is increasing with +- 2% (2013/14 to 2014/15). If they finance it off budget over 20 years the interest payments at 3% would be B 90 bn per annum and for each 1% increase in the interest rate the payment will jump with B 30 bn per annum.

A starting point for savings could be to decrease the number of Generals to be inline with modern armies (Thailand 1400 + and US +-140). They could fire/early retire all the officials in inactive posts. They could sell their share in companies like PTT, with this move they could pay for most of the infrastructure projects cash. They could stop the energy related subsidies and save +- B 200 bn per year and stop the rice scheme and save +- B 170 bn per year. They could sell Thai railways and lease the infrastructure to a private entity at the same amount the repayments are for the railway upgrades.

Brave leaders become heroes and weak ones foot notes in history books, its all about choices in the end.

[Emptyset]

The Thai government budget is +- B 2,8 tn per year. If they want to finance this through the budget it would be +- B 430 bn additional per year over the next 7 years. As the budget for next year was already approved by the junta and this 2015 budget is inline with the last budget, it is clear that they are going to finance these projects off budget (through bonds and loans), the same as what PTP proposed. Due to the limitations to my freedom of speech I will stop here, but anyone with more than one brain cell can see whats going on.

Maybe it's a good job we have people like you posting, it's kept us on our feet over the 3 years of PTP, happy for you now to support a non functioning regime.

It was the PTP that was devoid of brain cells or we would not be in this predicament. BUT your thinking this way is Habit rather than normal function.

Hypocrisy have always been a problem with some colour orientated people. My point was that the same projects, funded the same way with the same lack of transparency that was shotdown by many of the yellow tinted poster on TV are now seen as the best thing since the light bulb. By the way if you look at my posts over the years you will notice that I atleast tried to be balanced in my views.

Hey, not very balanced if anyone that criticized PTP in your view had to be "Yellow"

When we see the whole package and where the money comes from and accounts to be kept, it will be totally different than PTP JUST borrow attitude.

Even the Dems said do not just borrow get finance from other means. But no they wanted Thailand to be plagued for 50 years of financial problems.

I was never colour orientated, only a critic of the Shin regime. Who said this would have lack of transparency--

Didn't it register to you that this was a project for PTP and the trough ???

Did you have trust in the borrowing ???

To me this is infrastructure that is needed and has been on the cards well before PTP came about.

"50 years of financial problems" lol... there you go again. Even if they could get private finance for some of it, the state will still have to pay most. And if we're still talking about the high speed train, it's unlikely private financiers would want to be involved. They wouldn't get involved in the UK for a project they need would cost more than it was supposed to and be subject to constant delays and revisions, so presumably they're even less likely to want to be involved in the Thai HST (although I guess there might be other benefits to being involved in the Thai project).

The private sector doesn't do things out of the goodness of their heart. They want to make profits. All sorts of problems with PFI schemes in the UK. Private contractors pulling out all the time or going bust, state having to pick up the bill. Constant corner cutting. I think governments like PFI because it's actually a good way to finance things "off budget", keeping the costs off the balance sheet, initially at least. Which is exactly what PT were going to do. But in the UK, many of the projects which were supposed to save money by using private finance actually ended up costly the state more (sometimes double) what they would have cost if they were entirely public financed. Personally I think major infrastracture priojects should stay in state hands and that's that, then you know exactly who to hold accountable.

[Dogmatix]

Yingluck administration using 2 trillion and putting country in debt for next 50 years = BAD.

NCPO approving 3 trillion = Good.

I'm confused.

The country does need the infrastructure but not the hi-speed train at this point. All the B2.2trn projects apart from the hi-speed train and the double track were in the ministries' long-term plans already. The NCPO has obviously taken what was there already and put it forward minus the hi-speed but plus some other long-term projects. The difference will be that all the projects will be approved over time and in phases in the annual budget acts. That means the number is not set in concrete and future governments can amend or cancel plans for projects that are not ready to start now. I would guess that what will get firm approval from the NCPO for disbursal in 2014-15 will actually be first phases of a small number of projects amounting to no more than B300 billion.

The hi-speed train was B700 bn of the B2.2 trn and was a grand scheme of Thaksin's to please the Chinese and make a huge amount of money from a project that would not generate sufficient economic benefit compared to its cost and would be hugely loss making to the already bankrupt SRT. The Thai Chamber of Commerce says that an average of 30% of all development projects disappears in corruption. Let me think. that would have been a cool US$6 billion for Thaksin & Co. He must spend every waking hour worrying about where his next billion (USD) is going to come from. I hope he can fit it all in his coffin when he goes.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Robby nz]

You anti everything clowns still haven't got it have you.

This is an approval "IN PRINCIPAL"

Now all the relevant agencies must go back and work on then present the detailed plans and budgets.

Plans which the transport ministry have no doubt been working on for quite some time.

The railways certainly have as it was reported that the environmental and health surveys have already been completed for one part of the double tracking and they have only been waiting for the finance to start work.