Farmers' debts soared over past 15 years: Thai study

[seajae]

people go into debt by not being able to repay what they borrow. If they borrowed to use the money to improve their land so they can earn more thats a different matter as long as they didnt go out buying new machinery etc when they can rent/pay others to do the work and save. If they borrowed to have a better lifestyle then they are solely responsible for their actions and dont deserve sympathy. Growing up in the 50's my dad died and there were 5 of us(under 14) plus mum, we went hungry a lot and wore hand me downs, second hand clothes and those donated by church groups, we struggled but mum didnt take out loans we couldnt repay. We grew a lot of what we ate and never went out to movies etc, never went on school excursions, we missed out on a lot, there was no govt help back then either, everything we got we worked for and relied on no one else. People need to take responsibility for what they do, if they want to throw a party for what ever reason then they need to be able to afford it, if they take out a 600,000 baht loan then they need to repay it, if they dont they have to expect to lose everything or they shouldnt have done it in the first place plus they should understand what the conditions are for repayments and the lack there of, obviously this woman never bothered to find out, instead she just took the money then never tried repaying it , to top it off she started bitching when they wanted the money back many years later. Thais seem to lack the responsibility to repay what they borrow in several cases, they seem to think if they dont worry about it then it will just go away. time for them to wake up. A lot of these broke farmers seem to be able to afford to buy their p*ss when they want it though.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

It come to show you a. what ever you give to a poor man they will stay poor,

b. rice schemes, rebates, freebees, debt moratorium, and hand outs never

better the life of no one unless they know how to mange their money and life

and live within the means that governments/god has giving them....

A farmer with 10-rai was not "poor".

Furthermore, you know absolutely no specifics to this persons circumstance, you simply create a history to suit your argument.

You're wrong there, 10 rai is almost not worth farming.

Not to mention the family home most likely stands on it.

I have a family home and 5 rai of paddy, doubt the total worth is over 400kbht.

No work in the area, can't produce any profitable crop with that little land.

[ajarnsiam]

Gents (and the occasional lady). According to the World Bank poverty in Thailand has been lowered from c 40% to c 9 % in the last 15 yrs. Please take TN with a pinch of salt.

[robblok]

@robby nz

You have great in-depth knowledge I like that so I got a few questions.

If milling is so profitable and screwing the farmers over all the time why don't they band together and own their own mill. Call it a cooperation it is done in many countries why not here. They could then control their own quality of rice and sell it locally. I seen a short program about organic rice and they had their own mill and own brand and it was good for the farmers. This was in Thailand.... so what is keeping them from stuff like this.

They obviously can organize themselves look at the red shirt protests and such.. why not something like this.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

@robby nz

You have great in-depth knowledge I like that so I got a few questions.

If milling is so profitable and screwing the farmers over all the time why don't they band together and own their own mill. Call it a cooperation it is done in many countries why not here. They could then control their own quality of rice and sell it locally. I seen a short program about organic rice and they had their own mill and own brand and it was good for the farmers. This was in Thailand.... so what is keeping them from stuff like this.

They obviously can organize themselves look at the red shirt protests and such.. why not something like this.

I can answer that one, having faced it myself.

The local mill owner makes you an offer you can't refuse (else your house hut burns down).

Farming in Thailand isn't done in a "free trade'" environment.

[wabothai]

Where i live land is not owned (by most farmers) but taken from the jungles over the years. Let's talk about corn farmers....

Financial awareness/management is non-existant and the banks, i wonder whether they care.

Education, education... etc.

[billd766]

How much did the floods loose Thailand?

What has been the infastucture % spending in the country areas compared to Bangkok?

What has been the spending on the military over that period of time; how many skirmishes have they been in apart from the coups?

Anyone going after the $1 m+ the boys over at Thai Tobacco recieved?

What social propgrams have been developed over that period and there effectiveness?

Spending on education, health and in what areas greater %?

Spending on rural farm projects?

The Nation appears to have a 'democratic' agenda which comes out as a biasis. Why do they want to keep comming up with what the 'farmers got'?

There are a lot of other things that need reminding of.

I just get this feeling that a smoke screen is being set up by this type of reporting?

Why am I getting this sort of feeling about your post which has nothing at all to do with the OP other than trying to divert and obfuscate it.

If you feel so strongly about what you posted then open a NEW topic about that.

THIS topic is about farmers debts soaring over the last 15 years.

[northernjohn]

Interesting that over the past 15 years the Shin lead governments have also pumped 1.5 trillion baht into populist rice schemes. Half of that was the yingluck government over the past 3 years. It is not only a staggering amount of money, it also highlights that the schemes were never designed to help the poor. For starters the 2.59 million of the poorest farmers didn't even qualify for the latest rice scheme.

This is why reform is needed. 1.5 trillion would have gone along way in solving the rice farmers problems had it been funneled into responsible long term programs that include educating farmers on sustainable farming techniques which is what the DRT are currently doing.

The only people that won't be happy under the new DRT initiatives will be the miller and warehouse owners.

A new day is dawning and the rice farmers will finally be able to stand on their own 2 feet. Using them as a political tool while abusing them is over.

It's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better though.

No matter what the Junta does, their hands are completely tied thanks to the last Thaksin led governemnt and their 15 million remaining tonnes of rice stock and an expected 20 million more tonnes to be reaped from September onwards.

That will be 34 million tonnes in the country of which 10 million will be domestically consumed leaving 24 million for export.

They will only probably be able to export about 8 tonnes next year, any more than that and the global price starts to fall again and will increase the problem. Then you have the WTO stepping in.

The ONLY way to bring back the industry and the good rice prices is to either destroy all the rice held in stock (which we can't afford to do) or force the rice farmers to grow something else for probably three years to get the export stocks back to zero.

The reason they like to grow rice is that it is one of the most non labour intensive crops to grow. But they are going to have to bite the bullet for a while.

Get out of growing rice guys.... the industry is fluked and you can thank Thaksin and Yingluck for that

The Junta needs to see where the 600 billion in 'supposed' costs have gone.. bank transfers and government cheques all lead somewhere and see how much was actually justified and recall the rest which probably amounts to a lot of graft and corruption... Got to get that money back.

But in the end.... help is limited on this one and a lesson has been learned that you get what you vote for.... Sadly, if Thaksin came back with a new party next year, promising amazing wealth for all the poor, they will vote him back in anyway.... so is there any point in helping them?

I mean, they sold out their industry for a couple of years of good money, much more than they deserved and that got them mainly into the debts they are in, because they were too stupid to understand that it couldn't last.

 
"The ONLY way to bring back the industry and the good rice prices is to 
either destroy all the rice held in stock (which we can't afford to do) or force 
the rice farmers to grow something else for probably three years to get the 
export stocks back to zero."

In the long run it would probably be cheaper to destroy it or give it away for animal feed if any animal will eat it. That would help the farmers who raise the animals.

Or just burn it. Think of the money they would be saving in storage alone. Of course there would be some strong crying by some of the former PTP government people who knew before hand storage was going to be a problem and invested heavily in it.

[northernjohn]

Can't knock or disagree with your post, but you're ommiting the crux, as to WHY they're in debt.

You have finger pointed towards everyone bar their own actions? I don't disagree with you, but debts getting out of control is partly the responsibility of their own actions.

When I had debt, I didn't blame it on anyone else, I had to revise my lifes plans, I had to stop being frivolous with cash, tighten up the purse strings, I took the debt on to make my family's life a bit better, but it cost me more in the long run, I didn't blame the cost of living, I didn't blame the banks for lending me the money, I took a reality check and realised that living beyond my means was the cause.

I have a little bit of sympathy with the farmers, but they're having to produce more to make more to ease their debts, they have just been paid double what their crop is valued at in todays market prices, and they're no longer going to get the massive handouts, why should the rice farmers who opted to join the scheme continue to expect to receive the same funds as before?

It's all too easy to point fingers to apportion blame on someone, without having a good look in the mirror

I love these pictures by the way, very errr appropriate one would say, highlighting a case of poverty, but what about all the thousands of the Kubotos that were fairly new that were seen descending into Bangkok, I seen with my own eyes over a dozen trailers full of new tracotors in one day heading "north" from Bangkok towards Udon Thani way, so someone is buying them

I don't pretend to have an in depth knowledge, but that doesn't mean I'm unable to post my own opinions sir

Yes I wondered about all those tractors descending on Bangkok only to turn around and go home.

My thoughts on it was some one with a lot of money was behind it. It would be nice to drop by the home of each one of those tractor drivers and see if they have the tractor they drove to and from Bangkok.

Of course the big rice growers are going to have money and be able to afford to buy new ones. They even have enough to buy the land that the poor farmer can no longer afford to make a living on.

[Robby nz]

Can't knock or disagree with your post, but you're ommiting the crux, as to WHY they're in debt.

You have finger pointed towards everyone bar their own actions? I don't disagree with you, but debts getting out of control is partly the responsibility of their own actions.

When I had debt, I didn't blame it on anyone else, I had to revise my lifes plans, I had to stop being frivolous with cash, tighten up the purse strings, I took the debt on to make my family's life a bit better, but it cost me more in the long run, I didn't blame the cost of living, I didn't blame the banks for lending me the money, I took a reality check and realised that living beyond my means was the cause.

I have a little bit of sympathy with the farmers, but they're having to produce more to make more to ease their debts, they have just been paid double what their crop is valued at in todays market prices, and they're no longer going to get the massive handouts, why should the rice farmers who opted to join the scheme continue to expect to receive the same funds as before?

It's all too easy to point fingers to apportion blame on someone, without having a good look in the mirror

I love these pictures by the way, very errr appropriate one would say, highlighting a case of poverty, but what about all the thousands of the Kubotos that were fairly new that were seen descending into Bangkok, I seen with my own eyes over a dozen trailers full of new tracotors in one day heading "north" from Bangkok towards Udon Thani way, so someone is buying them

I don't pretend to have an in depth knowledge, but that doesn't mean I'm unable to post my own opinions sir

Most of the new Kubotos around here, like these working with rotary hoes :

Are few and far between and are owned by the contractors who can get reasonable use out of them by working for multiple farmers.

These contractors are on a fixed rate and get paid promptly so don't have the same cash flow problems as the farmers.

On my travels I see contractors usually have better houses than the farmers and I suspect they are also land owners who rent out their land to the farmers.

Still most of the paddy preparation is done with these :

Again belonging to a contractor.

My stamping ground is the central plain so I cant really comment on farther north but I would suspect it would be much the same although I have noted on trips in to other parts that there is more diversification which uses different methods of working the ground that therefor needs different machinery.

As for the Farmers aborted trip to BKK, from what I remember there were not that many flash new tractors only those in the first few ranks those behind were is standard Etans, trucks and pickups.

Often wondered myself when I see the showrooms with rows and row of new tractors just how many they do sell, same goes for the many diggers and other gear sales outfits on the way into BKK for their stock never seems to change.

[DK2223]

IMO the rice farmer do not need to borrow any money to do the farming..1 rai of cost for farming is around 4000-5000 baht and it can sell for around 6000-8000 baht. What I really think is the government need to start educating the local how to manage their finances rather then help them by all the subsidiary support to them. Most of the farmer I see is that they borrow money from bank or loan shark is not for farming but to buy thing that they desire. Etc: Borrow 100,000 baht, 20,000 baht when to farming and 80,000 baht when to purchase a car and after they harvest and sell of the farming product and they start to complaints the product cannot cover the loan the borrow but they never think that they just invest 20% of the loan and not the full amount of the loan they borrow. How are they going to be able to pay even with any government subsidy.

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