ohyesiam Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @ohyesiam, can you please give us more information regarding the information session - who organised it and how long ago ? Yours is the first post I've seen that represents anything even remotely definitive on this topic - the rest of us have been left to ponder random speculation and conjecture. Greatly appreciate any info you can give us on this. The session was at the Meridian Chiang Mai I believe, about as much as 2 years ago now, arranged by whom I'm not sure but CM Immigration was represented at a high level - I believe in the capacity of Manager or Director - and in the Q&A afterwards he answered several direct questions. One was as I mentioned; working through a website located (hosted) outside of Thailand and doing all business outside of Thailand over the internet would not require a work permit. The representative was going to clarify some questions and report back to someone involved in organizing the session, but I do not know if this topic/reponse was part of that clarification. I have not seen any threads noting any changes similar to this question so I am only ASSUMING no news is good news. I offer this info simply so that anyone considering a working situation like that can pursue further advice from immigration or their advisor and know that it is a clear topic that has already been defined by immigration. I think anyone who feels this applies to them should feel comfortable asking immigration directly. I hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taotoo Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I'm not sure that is working illegally. I attended and immigration information session and they stated that working online is not illegal and does not require a work permit as long as all of the business takes place outside of thailand - ie buying and selling goods/services inside the USA via a website. Did I misunderstand? btw before I get trounced on with assumptions, it wasn't my question and does not apply to me.I think it comes down to interpretation and wouldn't count on it being considered legal if the question were ever to become pertinent - e.g. if you'd been found to be working 180+ days per year in Thailand. Also - somebody correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe you would be liable for tax on any resultant income brought into the Kingdom within 12 months of the time it was earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 @ohyesiam, can you please give us more information regarding the information session - who organised it and how long ago ? Yours is the first post I've seen that represents anything even remotely definitive on this topic - the rest of us have been left to ponder random speculation and conjecture. Greatly appreciate any info you can give us on this. The session was at the Meridian Chiang Mai I believe, about as much as 2 years ago now, arranged by whom I'm not sure but CM Immigration was represented at a high level - I believe in the capacity of Manager or Director - and in the Q&A afterwards he answered several direct questions. One was as I mentioned; working through a website located (hosted) outside of Thailand and doing all business outside of Thailand over the internet would not require a work permit. The representative was going to clarify some questions and report back to someone involved in organizing the session, but I do not know if this topic/reponse was part of that clarification. I have not seen any threads noting any changes similar to this question so I am only ASSUMING no news is good news. I offer this info simply so that anyone considering a working situation like that can pursue further advice from immigration or their advisor and know that it is a clear topic that has already been defined by immigration. I think anyone who feels this applies to them should feel comfortable asking immigration directly. I hope this helps. Problem is, its not immigration who decides, its the department of labour, immigration can say what they want, but its not them who have the jurisdiction on this question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWorldwide Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 @ohyesiam, can you please give us more information regarding the information session - who organised it and how long ago ? Yours is the first post I've seen that represents anything even remotely definitive on this topic - the rest of us have been left to ponder random speculation and conjecture. Greatly appreciate any info you can give us on this. The session was at the Meridian Chiang Mai I believe, about as much as 2 years ago now, arranged by whom I'm not sure but CM Immigration was represented at a high level - I believe in the capacity of Manager or Director - and in the Q&A afterwards he answered several direct questions. One was as I mentioned; working through a website located (hosted) outside of Thailand and doing all business outside of Thailand over the internet would not require a work permit. The representative was going to clarify some questions and report back to someone involved in organizing the session, but I do not know if this topic/reponse was part of that clarification. I have not seen any threads noting any changes similar to this question so I am only ASSUMING no news is good news. I offer this info simply so that anyone considering a working situation like that can pursue further advice from immigration or their advisor and know that it is a clear topic that has already been defined by immigration. I think anyone who feels this applies to them should feel comfortable asking immigration directly. I hope this helps. Problem is, its not immigration who decides, its the department of labour, immigration can say what they want, but its not them who have the jurisdiction on this question Agreed, but it remains the first time I've seen any reference to a specific answer to a very direct question re working online from anyone in Thai officialdom - it would be fantastic if the MoL had a ruling on this but I expect that it would in Thai and I cant read Thai. For example, I found a couple of versions of the Labor Protection Act on the Ministry of Labor website and this is one of them: http://115.31.136.62/sites/default/files/8_1.pdf Cant say that the website itself fills me with confidence that these guys have their finger on the pulse esp when chunks of their English version of the site appear to be little more than Google translate's attempts to parse the original Thai script: http://www.mol.go.th/en/employer/Duty_employers Sure, its the Thai Ministry of Labor but if their intent is to give non-Thai speakers some idea of what they're about, it's pedestrian at best, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohyesiam Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 @ohyesiam, can you please give us more information regarding the information session - who organised it and how long ago ? Yours is the first post I've seen that represents anything even remotely definitive on this topic - the rest of us have been left to ponder random speculation and conjecture. Greatly appreciate any info you can give us on this. The session was at the Meridian Chiang Mai I believe, about as much as 2 years ago now, arranged by whom I'm not sure but CM Immigration was represented at a high level - I believe in the capacity of Manager or Director - and in the Q&A afterwards he answered several direct questions. One was as I mentioned; working through a website located (hosted) outside of Thailand and doing all business outside of Thailand over the internet would not require a work permit. The representative was going to clarify some questions and report back to someone involved in organizing the session, but I do not know if this topic/reponse was part of that clarification. I have not seen any threads noting any changes similar to this question so I am only ASSUMING no news is good news. I offer this info simply so that anyone considering a working situation like that can pursue further advice from immigration or their advisor and know that it is a clear topic that has already been defined by immigration. I think anyone who feels this applies to them should feel comfortable asking immigration directly. I hope this helps. Problem is, its not immigration who decides, its the department of labour, immigration can say what they want, but its not them who have the jurisdiction on this question Agreed, but it remains the first time I've seen any reference to a specific answer to a very direct question re working online from anyone in Thai officialdom - it would be fantastic if the MoL had a ruling on this but I expect that it would in Thai and I cant read Thai. For example, I found a couple of versions of the Labor Protection Act on the Ministry of Labor website and this is one of them: http://115.31.136.62/sites/default/files/8_1.pdf Cant say that the website itself fills me with confidence that these guys have their finger on the pulse esp when chunks of their English version of the site appear to be little more than Google translate's attempts to parse the original Thai script: http://www.mol.go.th/en/employer/Duty_employers Sure, its the Thai Ministry of Labor but if their intent is to give non-Thai speakers some idea of what they're about, it's pedestrian at best, Don't know where all my typing just went but anyway... sorry I don't have much more info, and I don't come online much, but as I recall there were several agencies represented and the intention of the meeting was to inform foreigners of legalities around employment. I imagine that if [a foreigner] felt they were out of options or is just keen to research, they could go to the Meridian and get them to scan their booking history for the event. The details are there somewhere - I know this risks derailing the discussion onto a tit tangent, but if it's important enough to someone, maybe this bit of info helps. That's probably where I would go, after I'd tried a direct answer/visit with the Employment Ministry if such a possibility exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inbangkok Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) OP, lets take a moment and look at our respective motivations. Like you, I've spent considerable time in this country on Tourist visas (and the 30-day exemption stamp) but mine has been spread over years with no single 'visit' of more than 3 months in duration. Go back to Australia, work for 'x' months and come back to Thailand, often via Penang. OK - fast forward to 2014 and I'm finally free of the shackles of a desk and deadlines. I head back to Thailand via Penang with a TV, get the 30-day extension and I'm sitting pretty with almost a month left. Like the others here, I've read most of what has been posted here, and I've seen the writing on the wall - tomorrow I will transfer the last 10k AUD I need into a Thai bank to make it clear to Immigration that: a. I want to stay here longterm b. I have the finances necessary to do so c. I'm prepared to keep some of those finances in a Thai bank for at least 90 days to achieve my first goal d. I know there are hoops to be jumped through but hopefully those hoops are the same for every non-resident foreigner living in Thailand One might argue that many retirees dont do anything particularly different to the tourists who come to Thailand each month, and the same observation may well apply to some on the Ed visa, but for now the focus is squarely on the Tourist Visa as a backdoor for those who are working illegally in Thailand. In light of that, I see nothing wrong with the way you were treated by the Thai official - he has been told to crack down on anyone who appears to be living longterm in Thailand without the appropriate visa and he's doing his job. I can see why you've reacted strongly to some of the responses in this thread but I can also see why Thai Immigration has decided to get tough - time to decide if you are serious about staying here longterm or you'd prefer to explore other options. Im all for it crackdown on people not having visas, thing is I've had visas, this is the first time, that's the point. Yes crackdown but you don't treat anyone in that manner. Main point you should note, he said i cant go back today, another day was fine. also never asked for proof of anything. Many people earn sums of money and stay in Thailand long term, 6 months isn't long term on one trip. One can easily work in their home country and continue to get funds transferred over. Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app I am lost now. So were you trying to re-enter on your 3rd entry? Or was your third entry already used and you were trying to re-enter on a visa exempt stamp? If you were trying to re-enter on a visa exempt stamp, it does not matter if it was your first time. Nowhere in the new regulations is there anything that talks about giving people a pass their "first" time. They have made it very clear they are not stamping people in on Visa runs anymore.....again, first time or not. Edited August 14, 2014 by inbangkok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddyjenkins Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I've missed no news I've followed it rigorously, and the immigration official is wrong, he stated I used 3 visa runs already which in fact I've used none. The fact I've posted this is because his manner and attitude in believing in lying and im actually working. That's the point here. Also, why would denying a entry for one day and still being allowed in the following day? also never asked for any papers or proof. Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Sorry, I don't believe you're a tourist either. Tourists go on holiday for a few weeks, return to their home countries and work a while to earn money for their next holiday. Then they have another holiday, don't know what you are, but you ain't a tourist. It's nonsense to say the OP can't be a tourist just because you imagine tourists to only stay a few weeks before going home to work again. Many people are far more financially successful than you and have had high paying jobs or successful businesses, and can afford to travel for longer than you, without working anywhere. We have more than enough narrow mindedness in this forum and it really doesn't help. What does help is to obtain the plain facts of the OP ' situation, not throw around baseless accusations and judgements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mataleo Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 A lot of foregin immigration officers here innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enuff said Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 . The wealthy play many games and twist many laws (and words) to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. Who doesn't know that? "Oh lah dee dah we have so much money we don't reside anywhere like the rest of you peons. We want our cake and to eat it too as we tell our home country "We live in Thailand" while telling Thailand "We are tourists" As a result, most countries rule that if you stay more than six months somewhere, you reside there. Not in a tourist way but in a residence way. And if you are residing in Thailand, you are not entitled to a TOURIST visa. The more carping and crying these pretend tourists do, the more they are forcing Thai Immigration to clamp down on their behaviour. 'nuff said ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertty Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 talking to a guy in the pub tonight he has lived in Thailand for 22 years works for an american company online and pays taxes in America. told me he has been asked by immigration many times about his situation and they tell him, no problem. he is divorced but has a 20 year old kid with his bride of 1 week when he first came to Thailand. he has the family visa thingy... what a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddyjenkins Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 . The wealthy play many games and twist many laws (and words) to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. Who doesn't know that? "Oh lah dee dah we have so much money we don't reside anywhere like the rest of you peons. We want our cake and to eat it too as we tell our home country "We live in Thailand" while telling Thailand "We are tourists" As a result, most countries rule that if you stay more than six months somewhere, you reside there. Not in a tourist way but in a residence way. And if you are residing in Thailand, you are not entitled to a TOURIST visa. The more carping and crying these pretend tourists do, the more they are forcing Thai Immigration to clamp down on their behaviour. 'nuff said ~ And what medication are you on this evening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpade Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Nah, read carefully, he admitted working online in Thailand, paid in his home country, and having the money transferred over. That's illegal in Thailand, unless you get a work permit, which they won't give you. Seems like you are reading into things to me. He never said anything about working online. He said work at home before you come to Thailand and then have the money you've made wired over to you in Thailand. I asked how he has supported himself for 6 months in Thailand and never got an answer Considering how dirt cheap Thailand is supporting yourself for 6 months isn't difficult. When I was younger I would work for a few months in the UK then quit and go travel for 4-6 months. Proper traveling, moving around every few days, staying in hotels, out every night, excursions and trips etc. If I put down base in somewhere like BKK, rent an apartment, limit the travel and activities I could easily have stayed for longer. Call it a "strategy" or whatever you want to call it, but it does wonders. I also speak/read Thai and try to make some friendly joke with them about the high number of tourists or some other trivial matter, something to emphasize with them, so I think that helps. The last thing I would want to do when dealing with immigration and playing the tourist card is speak or read Thai. Playing dumb tourist is a much better option. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Dredged up old and outdated topic with people replying to months old posts. Topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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