I don't have a degree but I believe I can teach...

[twodreamers]

Hi, I wanted to share my situation and hear people's opinions on it.

I have recently become inspired to become an English teacher. I believe I have a lot to offer and am preparing to start a CELTA (With a YL extension). My problem is I don't have a degree. I need to know how much of a problem this is going to be. I love Thailand and would love to teach there. I am also considering studying for my CELTA there. What obstacles am I likely to face?

I believe I am proficient enough to positively contribute to the learning experience. I know I will work hard and be a good teacher - I have experience in a British Primary school and I also taught English to some 5 year-olds in a school near Krabi. I fell in love with being a teacher that day. My family business has been accommodating foreign language students, so in a way i've been giving informal English lessons my whole life. I have enjoyed each and every time I've had the opportunity to teach someone language and it just feels like a natural calling for me. I also pick up new languages quickly and having already learnt some Thai will seriously consider an ED Visa and Thai language course. I am also considering beginning an Open University degree. How would these two options affect my situation?

I would like to start in Thailand but would like to be able to teach in other countries too. How realistic are my dreams? Should I just give up now or does anyone think they are possible?

[Loaded]

You need a degree to obtain a work permit. There can be exceptions if you work at a non-formal school.

[Scott]

Without a degree you will have limited options and right now the visa situation does not bode well for those trying to stay in the country without proper credentials.

Best of luck, however. You may get lucky.

[WonnabeBiker]

Well, I have a friend who's doing it now for the 2nd year. He turned 21 last Fall... And wasn't a day at the university.

AFAIK, a CELTA is not a requirement nor a substitute for a university degree. Why bother?!? See if you can find work and how you like it. Don't start by spending big bucks.

A lot of folks are working as teachers who lack English skills and have terrible accents. Just saying. As a NES, you may have something to offer to the schools. Good luck!

[jacky54]

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

Edited July 4, 2014 by jacky54

[brucetefl]

If you shipped off all the "unqualified" teachers in Thailand here is what you would have left:

Approximately 1% of the native speakers would remain. Almost none of the NES have anything other than a degree (in ANY subject, and thats not really being a qualified teacher, a TEFL is far more useful).

Most of the Filipinas

Most of the Thais, unfortunately only 1% of them can actually communicate in English.

Don't let the naysayers get you down.

If you are an enthusiastic and dedicated teacher you will succeed. By the way, if we got rid of all the teachers who were not enthusiastic and dedicated we wouldn't have many left either.

You will have problems with your Visa. There are a lot of solutions to this, some legal, most illegal. But there are literally tens of thousands of teachers teaching English illegally today.

Because I run a bachelors degree program in TESOL, I am obviously very biased, so you need to consider that when you listen to the following suggestion:

one option is to enroll in a degree program. Ours, for instance, only requires you to attend during school holidays but still enables you to obtain a degree in three or four years. You obtain a degree in TESOL, so obviously for an English teacher it's very useful. And at only 3,000 baht per month its one of the few programs that teachers in thailand can actually afford.

We can provide education visa documentation, but many of our students are getting waivers and actually obtaining business visas and work permits. It's not happening in every situation but it's happening in many.

Google us at thongsook international BA TESOL.

Edited July 4, 2014 by brucetefl

[twodreamers]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I know this topic has been done once or twice before, I think we all just need positive affirmation of our own individual circumstance.

Well, I have a friend who's doing it now for the 2nd year. He turned 21 last Fall... And wasn't a day at the university.

AFAIK, a CELTA is not a requirement nor a substitute for a university degree. Why bother?!? See if you can find work and how you like it. Don't start by spending big bucks.

A lot of folks are working as teachers who lack English skills and have terrible accents. Just saying. As a NES, you may have something to offer to the schools. Good luck!

Whilst I have experience with foreign language speakers, and in a classroom environment, and my English is at a level proficient enough level to pass on knowledge and good habits, I have no formal training and would like to take some before being unleashed on the school system.

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

You are correct of course and this is why I want to be trained to a level sufficient to make me a good teacher. As we see on these boards what constitutes adequate training is up for debate. A potentially good teacher should not be excluded just because they don't have a degree just as one would hope a potentially bad teacher is not employed solely because they have a degree (often in a non-related subject) but no formal training.

I am willing to work hard to become a good teacher, whatever that takes.

Google us at thongsook international BA TESOL.

Thanks Bruce, after some research last night I was going to add some questions about your college to this thread. It seems like a very viable option for me.

Can you confirm in my situation I would be able to teach while at the same time studying towards your BA TESOL? Would you recommend I take some formal training first or would the early stages of the course equip me for getting my foot in the classroom door?

Many thanks in advance for your response.

Edited July 4, 2014 by twodreamers

[DavidMavec]

This is Thailand, where there's a will there's a way. Just do it.

[Sunny14]

Teaching is not as easy as it seems. It is good to get some training to give you an understanding and some knowledge before you walk into a classroom and face a classroom full of children. If you going to teach in Thailand then it is better to do a TEFL course here as you then receive training with Thai students in mind. You can google englishtefl.com . They are in Phuket and there is a lot of information on the website.

[ezzra]

I don't have wings but I believe I can fly....

[RaysFan]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

[Baerboxer]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Almost as ridiculous as trying to argue someone can simply be a teacher of English just because they happen to be a NES.

Teaching is a profession.

[wjhall]

In my experience very few of the English teachers here, at least in my area, have a degree and they are teaching legally with Work Permit etc. I think schools are so desperate for native English speakers that they will take almost anyone.

[RaysFan]

Yea, for the most part... The whole English teaching system in Thailand is garbage.... The way they approach the whole thing is just dumb. I guess thats why they are last, or near last in English proficiency in Asia, and probably always will be.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I'll take a wild guess here, you don't have a degree!

Am I right?

[wwest5829]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Having a degree means they are more knowledgeable about many things. To say a person without a degree is equal to a person with a degree means that degrees are worthless. I beg to differ. So, beginning with a broader knowledge base makes them better prepared in that regard, first of all. Yes, I have known trained teachers who stink but I will have to confess I have not been exposed to a full-time educator without a degree. Some gifted speakers on various subjects but not classroom teachers.

[dutchchiangmai]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I know this topic has been done once or twice before, I think we all just need positive affirmation of our own individual circumstance.

Well, I have a friend who's doing it now for the 2nd year. He turned 21 last Fall... And wasn't a day at the university.

AFAIK, a CELTA is not a requirement nor a substitute for a university degree. Why bother?!? See if you can find work and how you like it. Don't start by spending big bucks.

A lot of folks are working as teachers who lack English skills and have terrible accents. Just saying. As a NES, you may have something to offer to the schools. Good luck!

Whilst I have experience with foreign language speakers, and in a classroom environment, and my English is at a level proficient enough level to pass on knowledge and good habits, I have no formal training and would like to take some before being unleashed on the school system.

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

You are correct of course and this is why I want to be trained to a level sufficient to make me a good teacher. As we see on these boards what constitutes adequate training is up for debate. A potentially good teacher should not be excluded just because they don't have a degree just as one would hope a potentially bad teacher is not employed solely because they have a degree (often in a non-related subject) but no formal training.

I am willing to work hard to become a good teacher, whatever that takes.

Google us at thongsook international BA TESOL.

Thanks Bruce, after some research last night I was going to add some questions about your college to this thread. It seems like a very viable option for me.

Can you confirm in my situation I would be able to teach while at the same time studying towards your BA TESOL? Would you recommend I take some formal training first or would the early stages of the course equip me for getting my foot in the classroom door?

Many thanks in advance for your response.

Even if you're studying towards a BA TESOL, you would not be able to work legally as a teacher. You would be working on an ED Visa. There a some agencies in Bangkok who will hire you, but you would be working without proper visa and therefore put yourself at risk. Also, if you would work for an agency without a suitable visa, BA and/or a work permit, they will deduct or withhold more money than usually from your monthly salary. One of the reasons we're having this crackdown on visa runs, is because 2 many people are working without the proper papers. With a BA you would be able to get yourself a non B visa and 2 waivers(temporary teaching license)and a work permit, and with these you would be able to teach for 4 years. After that, at this moment, you would need a degree in education or pass the 4 tests form the TCT.

Edited July 4, 2014 by dutchchiangmai

[thailampang2012]

It is a Government Program hiring English teachers for Government schools without experience or certifications. Pay for full time week is just about 10000THB/month, but you will get work permit, experience, and letter of recommendation for future application in better jobs. To get it you just have to show up at Elementary Government Schools and speak with the Director. Many Government schools have difficulty in find native certified English teachers, and will test you in class for a paid position. If you pass the test you may get a job paying equals to teachers with certifications, and you will get the work permit. That is the case in some Chiang Rai, Phayao and Lampang schools I know. Good luck and have fun with the kids!...not get so serious! and learn Thai with them...They love to "play" with "farangs" and probably you will love them too.....but not get too involved with them or with the teachers. Avoid gossips. OK? Good luck.

[RaysFan]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I'll take a wild guess here, you don't have a degree!

Am I right?

No. You are not right. I do have a degree, and I am not an English teacher.... Just my thoughts after living in Thailand for a while and seeing how things work here.

[RaysFan]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Having a degree means they are more knowledgeable about many things. To say a person without a degree is equal to a person with a degree means that degrees are worthless. I beg to differ. So, beginning with a broader knowledge base makes them better prepared in that regard, first of all. Yes, I have known trained teachers who stink but I will have to confess I have not been exposed to a full-time educator without a degree. Some gifted speakers on various subjects but not classroom teachers.

Your argument here is completely off topic. This isnt about being knowledgeable about many things... This is about teaching extremely basic English to Thai kids.

[transam]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Having a degree means they are more knowledgeable about many things. To say a person without a degree is equal to a person with a degree means that degrees are worthless. I beg to differ. So, beginning with a broader knowledge base makes them better prepared in that regard, first of all. Yes, I have known trained teachers who stink but I will have to confess I have not been exposed to a full-time educator without a degree. Some gifted speakers on various subjects but not classroom teachers.

In the UK you can get a degree for "Surf Boarding".

Can he teach English to your "standard".........?

[epicstuff]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Almost as ridiculous as trying to argue someone can simply be a teacher of English just because they happen to be a NES.

Teaching is a profession.

From my observations and experience people either have a natural aptitude for teaching or they don't; and yes being a NES is head and shoulders better at teaching conversational English than some other heavily accented nationality. with degrees and qualifications coming out their ass. it is common sense. I've met some incredibly arrogant french who think they are good because of their experience and status at the school, but how was the poor kids were ever going to learn English from them was anybodies guess. Ok maybe a different story if you talk about University level but youngsters need a fun enthusiastic interesting person with clear language ability and able to maintain some informal discipline, which in Thai government schools is the hardest part on the whole. and that isnt gained by a qualification

[Suradit69]

Well your written English seems far better than many who consider themselves qualified to teach and who then make the mistake of attempting to post here, totally destroying that illusion.

I have enjoyed each and every time I've had the opportunity to teach someone language and it just feels like a natural calling for me.

I suppose enjoying what you are doing is important, but in your entire opening post there was almost no mention of your students, past or future. Any time I ever interviewed prospective teachers in the past I always expected them to discuss what they were bringing to the table that would benefit their students and/or how they would motivated students and/or how they managed the learning experiences to best serve the interest of their students.

Reading through some of the posts in this forum, I would say that students seem to figure pretty low in the concerns & priorities of those who teach or administer here. It seems the main focus in this forum is on having some good times in exotic Thailand, coping with teacher chores that reduce the time available for having good times here in exotic Thailand, getting hired with minimal qualifications and, of course, occasionally spouting nonsense/excuses about how backward Thai schools are because they don't employ "best practices," with no view to making these alleged best practices relevant to the students one deals with in a real Thai classroom. Teacher-centered and school-centered approaches seem aimed at minimizing the effort required on the part of teachers/administrators, while student-centered thoughts only arise when it comes to explaining why the first two approaches failed.

So I guess if you have a pulse someone will hire you to fill a vacancy ... but probably still leave a void.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Suradit69

[dao16]

There are a lot of people without degrees working here with proper visas and work permits. It all depends on how they are classified and where they are teaching. You might try vocational schools or certain low level universities. Teachers are classified differently in some places like that (something like 'visiting lecturer'). Also, I know some people who are classified as English trainers or something like that, but their jobs look pretty much exactly like teaching.

Of course, it will always be more precarious without a degree since things could change later. Anyway, just wanted to let you know I have definitely seen it. Do your research first and make sure you have enough money upfront in case you don't crack the code fast enough.

[epicstuff]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Almost as ridiculous as trying to argue someone can simply be a teacher of English just because they happen to be a NES.

Teaching is a profession.

From my observations and experience people either have a natural aptitude for teaching or they don't; and yes being a NES is head and shoulders better at teaching conversational English than some other heavily accented nationality. with degrees and qualifications coming out their ass. it is common sense. I've met some incredibly arrogant french who think they are good because of their experience and status at the school, but how was the poor kids were ever going to learn English from them was anybodies guess. Ok maybe a different story if you talk about University level but youngsters need a fun enthusiastic interesting person with clear language ability and able to maintain some informal discipline, which in Thai government schools is the hardest part on the whole. and that isnt gained by a qualification

actually i want to add that many of the schools here dont want highly skilled teachers that can go there own way, they prefer teachers to stick to some crap Americanized book and teach parrot fashion.. repetition, repetition and bore the students into learning English. any good and highly qualified teacher normally soon becomes frustrated with the limitations placed on them in a Thai School.

[RaysFan]

Well your written English seems far better than many who consider themselves qualified to teach and who then make the mistake of attempting to post here, totally destroying that illusion.

I have enjoyed each and every time I've had the opportunity to teach someone language and it just feels like a natural calling for me.

I suppose enjoying what you are doing is important, but in your entire opening post there was almost no mention of your students, past or future. Any time I ever interviewed prospective teachers in the past I always expected them to discuss what they were bringing to the table that would benefit their students and/or how they would motivated students and/or how they managed the learning experiences to best serve the interest of their students.

Reading through some of the posts in this forum, I would say that students seem to figure pretty low in the concerns & priorities of those who teach or administer here. It seems the main focus in this forum is on having some good times in exotic Thailand, coping with teacher chores that reduce the time available for having good times here in exotic Thailand, getting hired with minimal qualifications and, of course, occasionally spouting nonsense/excuses about how backward Thai schools are because they don't employ "best practices," with no view to making these alleged best practices relevant to the students one deals with in a real Thai classroom.

So I guess if you have a pulse someone will hire you to fill a vacancy but still leave a void.

You are absolutely right.... Foreigners dont come to Thailand to teach English.... Teaching English is just a means.... Its what they do to allow them to live here. These people didnt wake up one day with a passion to teach people English. Their passion is being in Thailand. Teaching English just allows them to stay here.

[tingtongteesood]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Having a degree means they are more knowledgeable about many things. To say a person without a degree is equal to a person with a degree means that degrees are worthless. I beg to differ. So, beginning with a broader knowledge base makes them better prepared in that regard, first of all. Yes, I have known trained teachers who stink but I will have to confess I have not been exposed to a full-time educator without a degree. Some gifted speakers on various subjects but not classroom teachers.

Degrees are worthless unless they are directly related to your job. To say you are more knowledgeable because you have a degree is a very broad blanket statement which is patently erroneous. If you studied marketing, you know more about marketing than I do, granted. But that doesn't mean you know anything more about anything else than I do - teaching English included. Education depends greatly upon the person. Yesterday I read Around The World In 80 Days - why ? Because I wanted to. I know more about that book than someone who hasn't read it. I don't care what your degree is in, if you haven't read this book, I know more about it than you do. There should be a test and / or a short course that all prospective teachers can take in order to qualify for a work permit dependent upon their passing the test. Of course those with educational degrees should be given priority - there is no denying this.

Edited July 4, 2014 by tingtongteesood

[NomadJoe]

Without a degree you will have limited options and right now the visa situation does not bode well for those trying to stay in the country without proper credentials.

Best of luck, however. You may get lucky.

I think the visa situation may be the impetus for his new inspiration. lol

[wabothai]

Never mind the papers. Thailand is in urgent need of good english teachers.

If you think you can teach, go for it.

[Bernadette Jane Roos]

I agree with you 100%...................it sickens me to think how many of the "Teachers" are in Thailand that do the TEFL courses, etc go to Thailand and then after 6 months..............actually less....................stop teaching to party.....drink.......and when all the money is gone.....they go home.

I have heard many of these stories and what's even worse is that they are giving the "serious" teachers a bad name.

I would give anything to go teach in Thailand.......I love the country, customs, people..... I will be going to Phuket again in September for a 3 week holiday. On a previous trip, a little girl was doing her english homework in her moms shop.......I ended up spending the next hour or two helping her. So rewarding!!!!.....and they were so appreciative.

So, I dont have a degree in Teaching, I unfortunately wont be going to Thailand to Teach, but am very grateful to the REAL teachers that are doing great work.

To those who have "used" the TEFL courses...etc to get into Thailand................rather leave!!! You are doing more harm than good!!!!!!

If you shipped off all the "unqualified" teachers in Thailand here is what you would have left:

Approximately 1% of the native speakers would remain. Almost none of the NES have anything other than a degree (in ANY subject, and thats not really being a qualified teacher, a TEFL is far more useful).

Most of the Filipinas

Most of the Thais, unfortunately only 1% of them can actually communicate in English.

Don't let the naysayers get you down.

If you are an enthusiastic and dedicated teacher you will succeed. By the way, if we got rid of all the teachers who were not enthusiastic and dedicated we wouldn't have many left either.

You will have problems with your Visa. There are a lot of solutions to this, some legal, most illegal. But there are literally tens of thousands of teachers teaching English illegally today.

Because I run a bachelors degree program in TESOL, I am obviously very biased, so you need to consider that when you listen to the following suggestion:

one option is to enroll in a degree program. Ours, for instance, only requires you to attend during school holidays but still enables you to obtain a degree in three or four years. You obtain a degree in TESOL, so obviously for an English teacher it's very useful. And at only 3,000 baht per month its one of the few programs that teachers in thailand can actually afford.

We can provide education visa documentation, but many of our students are getting waivers and actually obtaining business visas and work permits. It's not happening in every situation but it's happening in many.

Google us at thongsook international BA TESOL.