Thai Immigration Bureau to blacklist all overstayers of more than 90 days

[Soutpeel]

Wow 150 odd comments already, there must some as*ehole nipping in Thailand tonight

[mrtoad]

Wow 150 odd comments already, there must some as*ehole nipping in Thailand tonight

Timwin is probably looking for a jack golf bus

[MK1]

These new laws are just a reactive measure and are not proactive towards reducing the problem. Unless their offshore Thai consulates have the increased capacity and authority to issue all Tourist-Visas it won’t necessarily eliminate the problem of overstayers because those banned can always return under a new identity.

By vetting all visa applicants offshore to begin with, Thailand can at least pick and choose which quality-tourists or expats meet the criteria by conducting background checks such as checking out the applicant’s criminal record including assessing their financial capacity before being approved a visa to enter the country.

Edited July 7, 2014 by MK1

[larsjohnsson]

There goes a big earner. I got to say Thailand is becoming less and less attractive as Time goes by and if my wife and kids where not Thai I don't think I would visit it again in a rush.

You belive Thailand is becoming less attractive if you can't overstay??

[Beetlejuice]

Generally I do not have much sympathy for people with lengthy overstays.

However, I think an amnesty period would be a good idea. Give people a period, say 30 days, to report to immigration and get themselves sorted out. Those who do not respond deserve all they get.

Have you heard of the saying; Give them an inch and they'll take a mile?

Many farangs have abused the system over the years. Not enough money to apply for a visa extension each year? No problem, just continue on overstay for as long as they like then pay the 20000 baht overstay fine and begin the whole process over again. This has become common practice for many that has finally put the block on any clemency and flexibility towards visa applicants by the Immigration Department.

I have heard of cases where farangs have been on a 10 year overstay here, paid the max 20000 baht fine and all has been forgiven. These people are making a mockery of the system.

Give any leeway at all and there will be those who will abuse it, so the authorities may just as well lay down the ground rules right from the start with no exceptions. Break the rules and these people become history in Thailand. Short, sweet and simple to understand.

The burden for keeping visas up to date is the responsibility of the applicants, and not the duty of the Immigration Departments to investigate and judge each case by it`s merits and have to listen to excuses. Those who are unable to hack it here in Thailand and unable to meet the imposed visa requirements each year, tough titties, as the rules are the rules and should take all this into consideration prior to plonking themselves here.

We have to remember that the Thai authorities are doing us a favour by letting us stay here and the more their hospitality is abused, the more their tolerance levels towards us will decline.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Beetlejuice

[mrtoad]

It's a good job IQ and EQ are not conditions of stay...

[Pralaad]

Lets be honest, who overstays? not counting medical reasons and i am sure medical does not run over a year or even 3 months

So

1. People who have no money to do visa runs

2. People who are too lazy to do visa runs

3. People who can not afford proper visa

4. People who do not qualify for visa.

Not exactly the most desirable or productive people, though on the flip side Thailand should expect shortage of English teachers

5. People who have been legally employed and paying taxes and have changed jobs to improve their opportunities. I've technically overstayed 3 times in 7 years, each time when I changed jobs. I've been fined once ( at land border instead of airport). Tired of employers who promise to work with your new HR to transfer the extension of stay, but end up screwing you by resigning your work permit and not telling you. But there are honest people just trying to do the right thing and ridiculous rules causing technical violations.

WP and visa are 2 very different matters

[mrtoad]

I know that the current regime's fanatical focus on law and order is a great distraction from the real issues facing this country.

I think the regime is trying to copy the Singaporean strict police state model with harsh laws but I doubt it would work in Thailand. Too many people, too many different "tribes".

Actually Tim, you can get I believe 90 days on arrival in Singapore in certain passports, certainly used to.

You seem to be getting very upset about this immigration clampdown, now, 1,2,3 breath in slowly through the nose, hol and then slowly exhale, repeat till you feel calmer and can answer this question.

What visa are you on, that is getting you so uptight?

[Jingthing]

Read it again. If you are apprehended on the street with an overstay of less than a year, you will be banned for 5 years.

I am sure it will not be the case.

This document looks like just a draft or some working notes.

I can't see this kind of ban for being late just a few days or week.

Should have be better to wait for the official rules before commenting on them...

Why wait? Maybe comments here may have an influence.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[farangbanok]

Last year I mislaid my passport, and found it behind a cupboard. By that time I had overstayed - unintentionally for 34 days.

I paid up got 7 days extension and went next day to Vientiane.

Overstay can happen to anyone, whether criminally minded, or as in my case, terminally stupid.

Draconian measures will not mean that the gangsters get caught, it is more likely to be normal people like myself.

[Greg Nixon]

Any overstay should result in a 5 to 10 year ban on re-entering Thailand. This would get rid of all the bad apples as they have a very short attention span.

[DP25]

This will be a great little side earner for some police. They will be able to extort any amount of money they want from anyone they catch, and the best part is they have to keep paying indefinitely. There will be no incentive for a long term overstayer to turn themselves in and get legal. There are going to be some unfortunate people that will end up enslaved, forced to pay money every month for the rest of their lives, or have their entire life destroyed.

[Pattszero]

Last year I mislaid my passport, and found it behind a cupboard. By that time I had overstayed - unintentionally for 34 days.

I paid up got 7 days extension and went next day to Vientiane.

Overstay can happen to anyone, whether criminally minded, or as in my case, terminally stupid.

Draconian measures will not mean that the gangsters get caught, it is more likely to be normal people like myself.

You would still have had 55 days to correct your mistake before facing a ban, and if need be, you would have had to request a new passport/emergency passport.

The policy is fair enough.

[96tehtarp]

I know that the current regime's fanatical focus on law and order is a great distraction from the real issues facing this country.

I think the regime is trying to copy the Singaporean strict police state model with harsh laws but I doubt it would work in Thailand. Too many people, too many different "tribes".

You may well be correct.

Thailand's corruption problems - which include near total lawlessness in the broader sense, have nothing to do with foreigners. This leaked document is a distraction to obfuscate what is really happening behind the scenes and cannot be discussed frankly except in private. It is illegal to elaborate.

It is a common ploy for western governments to float "drafts" or leaks to terrorize those potentially affected. Much like Internal Revenue Agencies leaking to the press news of stricter enforcement and penalties on tax cheats at tax filing time. It happens every year, and dramatically increases compliance without doing anything at all. It is usually all smoke and mirrors.

I'm being very cynical but I wonder how long it will take before the same dodgy agents currently doing extensions now, in cahoots with Thai Immigration for a fee (with no requirements), will find a way to monetize these new rules if they actually are implemented. Thailand doesn't have a monopoly on corrupt immigration officials... all the G7 countries have had them too.

[NoshowJones]

Don't worry about it, there's a lot of Nationalities on Thaivisa.

[Greg Nixon]

Gee Thai immigration police could make a fortune off these rules. Go sik em police.

[ldnguy]

The part of 5 year ban for being apprehended for an overstay of under one year, that could be ONE DAY, is in my opinion unreasonably HARSH. No I have never overstayed for even one day and don't intend to, but I can imagine unfortunate scenarios where that might unintentionally happen to me, to anyone.

If I'm reading this correctly, an under 90 day overstay where you make it to the airport and pay the fine WITHOUT apprehension, you're OK to come back. That's good.

Suppose you're in a traffic accident on the way to the airport and your passport is checked ...

Like I said ... that 5 year ban is scary.

Foreigners who applaud unreasonably harsh rules like this, I can't relate to that at all. It's bizarre actually. It could be YOU who is hit, whether you admit your human fallibility or not ... IT COULD.

On the other hand, I'm sure hard core Thai nationalists might go for even more severe penalties ... but I'm talking about fellow foreigners here. Why would you identify with hard core and possibly xenophobic Thai nationalists unless you're actually one yourself?

I re-read the OP and it clearly states...

The new measures, which will see overstayers of more than 90 days blacklisted, are as follows:

So you won't get blacklisted for overstays under 90 days.

[up-country_sinclair]

Read it again. If you are apprehended on the street with an overstay of less than a year, you will be banned for 5 years.

I am sure it will not be the case.

This document looks like just a draft or some working notes.

I can't see this kind of ban for being late just a few days or week.

Should have be better to wait for the official rules before commenting on them...

Why wait? Maybe comments here may have an influence.

With all due respect to the forum owner and admin, this comment is complete absurd.

It is beyond me how anyone with experience in Thailand could think that the comments on this thread EVER have any influence whatsoever on this issue?

[Soutpeel]

I know that the current regime's fanatical focus on law and order is a great distraction from the real issues facing this country.

I think the regime is trying to copy the Singaporean strict police state model with harsh laws but I doubt it would work in Thailand. Too many people, too many different "tribes".

Actually Tim, you can get I believe 90 days on arrival in Singapore in certain passports, certainly used to.

You seem to be getting very upset about this immigration clampdown, now, 1,2,3 breath in slowly through the nose, hol and then slowly exhale, repeat till you feel calmer and can answer this question.

What visa are you on, that is getting you so uptight?

Think Timwin is frantically trying to book a flight out of Thailand on a low cost airline, so he can get his overstay squared away before the new rules kick in properly

[NancyL]

I know of at least a dozen others with tales similar to what PhilW told in post #123 -- only the men I know are much, much older and in situations where they've lost all contact with anyone in their home countries. There really is no one and no where for them to go if they were to return to their home countries. Plus, they have no way to finance a return trip, let alone an overstay fine. They spend their small pensions every month barely getting by. In many cases, their Thai family is caring for them and they are unable to travel.

How did they get on overstay? Well, in some cases it was as some have speculated. Dementia or a hospital stay and they simply lost track of keeping up with visa maintenance. Some were playing games in trying to stay here long-term with tourist visas because they lacked financial means to qualify for retirement/marriage visas and the rigors of travel got to be too much as they aged. Some because Thai partners cleaned out their 800,000 baht retirement visa account. Some because they became ill and were in-and-out of hospitals (as PhilW described) but Immigration wouldn't grant a medical extension and insisted they should go out of the country and pay the 20,000 baht fine.

That's right. Here in Chiang Mai Immigration they usually tell these guys -- just wait until you leave the country and pay the fine then. Wait until you can get the money together. They haven't tried to compromise or work with them. Some of these guys have been "waiting" for years. Now this happens.

Is IDC prepared to care for elderly men with multiple health problems?

Edited July 7, 2014 by NancyL

[Soutpeel]

Read it again. If you are apprehended on the street with an overstay of less than a year, you will be banned for 5 years.

I am sure it will not be the case.

This document looks like just a draft or some working notes.

I can't see this kind of ban for being late just a few days or week.

Should have be better to wait for the official rules before commenting on them...

Why wait? Maybe comments here may have an influence.

With all due respect to the forum owner and admin, this comment is complete absurd.

It is beyond me how anyone with experience in Thailand could think that the comments on this thread EVER have any influence whatsoever on this issue?

They may very well read some of the posts an decided what they have in place is not enough and impose 10 year and life bans instead

[mrtoad]

I know that the current regime's fanatical focus on law and order is a great distraction from the real issues facing this country.

I think the regime is trying to copy the Singaporean strict police state model with harsh laws but I doubt it would work in Thailand. Too many people, too many different "tribes".

Actually Tim, you can get I believe 90 days on arrival in Singapore in certain passports, certainly used to.

You seem to be getting very upset about this immigration clampdown, now, 1,2,3 breath in slowly through the nose, hol and then slowly exhale, repeat till you feel calmer and can answer this question.

What visa are you on, that is getting you so uptight?

Think Timwin is frantically trying to book a flight out of Thailand on a low cost airline, so he can get his overstay squared away before the new rules kick in properly

The days of Jack Golf tours long gone for timmy

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Has anyone seen any statistics on who overstayers are?

Country of origin and maybe age/sex?

There must be a certain country/s that lubricated the legal system.

My guess is also fallout from MH370

[KhunSteven]

I read that (in the US) a name change in the court costs $200 and a new passport costs $120. Problem solved?

... until they start doing fingerprinting.

Fingerprints can be changed and are less useful as a means of identification as one gets older.

[bristolgeoff]

getting serious I know a few who overstayed for years and just pay the fine go home.new passport back in again do the same thing,that will not happen again now

[garydubbs]

Bugger ... that's going to stuff up a lot of the plans of the overstayers.

I hope there are the usual exemptions such as 'Medical' etc.

Yeah - I think roughly one day into my overstay I'd be making plans to get out of the country, but that's just me. Some of the overstay periods on this document are nothing short of hilarious - 10 years of staying illegally in someone else's country is pure Ronnie Biggs IMO. That's 10 years where you had no legal right to stay in the country much less work, yet somehow managed to feed, clothe and shelter yourself. Let's start putting two and two together and stop making excuses for people. There will always be exceptions but that's for Thai Immigration to decide, not the members of Thaivisa.

wifes/girlfriends can earn income/own businesses too if you are implying all overstayers are working illegally

[epicstuff]

Depressing to see so many people saying "great to see life getting harder for someone other than me"

What people forget is, there are no good immigration bureaucracies in the world. The western ones mostly suck too. Immigrants are some of the most vulnerable people in the world. Thousands of people fall through the cracks, can't get visas, get separated from their loved ones, etc. because of inflexible bureaucracies.

For a long time one of the attractions of Thailand was that it was easy to come and go. I don't promote overstaying, but if they want to clean up corruption and enforce the law, how about starting with corrupt cops, or hi-so Thais who literally get away with murder? Because foreigners are an easy target that have no rights and no political representation.

If you're cheering on these changes that's what you're supporting -- selective law enforcement that goes after the easy targets.

Who knows where this stops, my concern is that it will continue to a point where living legally in Thailand gets too hard, and then that's one less great place in the world where I can live.

Where are they making it harder? They are making the fines for breaking the laws(overstaying)stronger, that's all. So are you upset because you are living here without a visa and overstaying? I followed the rules as with many others that live here have followed the rules.

I assume you don't support immigrants in your country staying in your country illegally? Same here, Thailand is cracking down on people that are living here illegally. It's still easy to come to Thailand, they still have the visa exempt stamp, you can still get a tourist visa along with B & O visa's.

There are many options to get a visa.

Also I guess you have not seen that the Junta is working on cracking down on corruption, they haven't just started with immigrants. They went after the taxi mafia, threw out the proposal for the airport expansion until it is more transparent. They are working on stopping corruption in politics etc.

I'd agree the junta seems to be doing some worthwhile work with corruption, ( the long term results yet to be seen) but just because they are making some positive (and in my opinion) correct decisions in one hand doesn't make every decision correct. From a point of principle I've already made a tonne of comments on this thread regarding the visa . It is an undeniable fact regulations are getting harder for many. mainly those that try to abide by doing things legally. Those that don't are never affected until caught anyway but their reasons could be varied and equally could be innocent despite being deemed illegal and therefore bad. Where does it stop and isnt there a better solution to the given problem. I dont single out Thailand with immigration issues my own country is equally bad. But some of the posts here about acceptance or good riddance to bad rubbish. or its easy for me so it should be easy for you kind of statements on here show a lack of compassion to many and makes me sad why the world is turning this way. Personally I think if they really focused on the anti corruption issues at all levels, there would be little need for more stringent regulation on the visa front. I would love to invest more money into Thailnd but dont feel comfortable doing so seeing all these new enforcements and regulations being applied to foreigners.. the way it is now a small slip up could cost me very dearly indeed.

[Pralaad]

Lets be honest, who overstays? not counting medical reasons and i am sure medical does not run over a year or even 3 months

So

1. People who have no money to do visa runs

2. People who are too lazy to do visa runs

3. People who can not afford proper visa

4. People who do not qualify for visa.

Not exactly the most desirable or productive people, though on the flip side Thailand should expect shortage of English teachers

Ummm - people like me who get 34/35 days of holidays (or more), 3 times a year (or more) ? I used to end up on 2 days overstay almost every trip. Under these new rules, if I was stopped on the way to the airport, I could get a 5 year ban (though one may suspect that if you have a history of short overstays, and plane tickets, etc, they could let it slip. Or not. Could depend entirely on the mood of the person detaining you, your appearance, your attitude, etc.)

Fortunately I've aged sufficiently that while I still get the holidays, I don't have the overstay worries anymore.

2 or 3 day over stay are not an issue,as of yet, though not sure why you think anyone should be allowed to over stay even by 1 day.

[larsjohnsson]

Last year I mislaid my passport, and found it behind a cupboard. By that time I had overstayed - unintentionally for 34 days.

I paid up got 7 days extension and went next day to Vientiane.

Overstay can happen to anyone, whether criminally minded, or as in my case, terminally stupid.

Draconian measures will not mean that the gangsters get caught, it is more likely to be normal people like myself.

Yes you mislaid you passport. But why did yoy stay 34 days longer ?

[p_brownstone]

Read it again. If you are apprehended on the street with an overstay of less than a year, you will be banned for 5 years.

I am sure it will not be the case.

This document looks like just a draft or some working notes.

I can't see this kind of ban for being late just a few days or week.

Should have be better to wait for the official rules before commenting on them...

Why wait? Maybe comments here may have an influence.

With all due respect to the forum owner and admin, this comment is complete absurd.

It is beyond me how anyone with experience in Thailand could think that the comments on this thread EVER have any influence whatsoever on this issue?

Not absurd at all in my opinion.

There's a recent, very long, still continuing Thread about the impending clampdown on Out / In Border Runners and several "contributors" are quite clear in saying - basically - OK, to hell with the rules, if I can't do a "Border Run" I will simply Overstay and pay my Baht 20,000.- (the current limit on the Overstay Fine) when I (note the arrogant "I") eventually decide to leave the Country, and "I" will simply come back the next day without penalty.

Do you really think no-one in Thai Government circles reads this sort of comment and thinks - hmmmmmm ?

Patrick