A&E fund / co-op for ex pats

[mccw]

Hello

I've been thinking about this since the government health scheme debacle involving expats.

I recognise that health and lack of insurance is a major issue for retirees especially but also perhapse younger ex- pat worker too. Any one could have an accident or illness.

So I thinking- the unaffordable part for the insurers is probably the ongoing conditions. But how about an A&E only cover. Would this interest people?

To make it viable I think it must be for serious case only- over a value of 20 or 25k bht I guess. A limit people could afford on thier own and high enough to filter it out as an option for trivial cold flu, hangover type things.

How can numbers be worked out exactly? Any consultants who know how to do these equations like a health company would?

Personally I think an A&E level of cover would be better than nothing.

[mccw]

Brain storming.

All ideas , views welcome.

Cheers

[masuk]

Good idea. impossible to get cover out of Australia, and over 70+

[JoePai]

Accident cover is cheap enough to buy by yourself

[sappersrest]

Bangkok Bank do an accident insurance around 2-4k a year depending on cover. Over 60s accepted, you get a card to keep with you to show the hospital. Go into any branch they will be delighted to sell you cover.

[Sparkles]

Bangkok Bank do an accident insurance around 2-4k a year depending on cover. Over 60s accepted, you get a card to keep with you to show the hospital. Go into any branch they will be delighted to sell you cover.

When you say over 60's accepted what is the cap .......70 ?

.

[Thighlander]

I think they were doing a co-op thing in Pattaya. Sounds to me like it would be in violation of many different laws involving company registration, insurance regulations, work permits, and might be in a gray area on securities.

I just got another policy for 62 days (July and August), 250 USD deductible and 1,000,000 USD coverage....cost 197.78.

"We are pleased to confirm short term medical coverage under the Atlas Series, Insured by Syndicate 4141 at Lloyd's, London and administered by HCC Medical Insurance Services"..............................Atlas Travel satisfies Schengen Visa health insurance requirements.

Effective Date: 07/01/2014

Home Country: United States

Destination Country(ies): Thailand

I have a card with a toll free number, (that I have tried from here), and a code to enter, and policy number I can use 24/7/365. They do direct payment to RAM and quite a few in BKK.

Now if I were willing to raise my deductible to 1000 USD; it would be 76.80 usd for the 30 day month of September. But, reducing coverage from 1 million to 500,000 only saves you 1.50 usd.....and it would be 75.30 per month.....I'm 50 yo, and that has already been factored in.

[masuk]

I think they were doing a co-op thing in Pattaya. Sounds to me like it would be in violation of many different laws involving company registration, insurance regulations, work permits, and might be in a gray area on securities.

I just got another policy for 62 days (July and August), 250 USD deductible and 1,000,000 USD coverage....cost 197.78.

"We are pleased to confirm short term medical coverage under the Atlas Series, Insured by Syndicate 4141 at Lloyd's, London and administered by HCC Medical Insurance Services"..............................Atlas Travel satisfies Schengen Visa health insurance requirements.

Effective Date: 07/01/2014

Home Country: United States

Destination Country(ies): Thailand

I have a card with a toll free number, (that I have tried from here), and a code to enter, and policy number I can use 24/7/365. They do direct payment to RAM and quite a few in BKK.

Now if I were willing to raise my deductible to 1000 USD; it would be 76.80 usd for the 30 day month of September. But, reducing coverage from 1 million to 500,000 only saves you 1.50 usd.....and it would be 75.30 per month.....I'm 50 yo, and that has already been factored in.

I had to quote a travel insurance policy number to get a visa for China. Took some finding but eventually located a company who will cover travel to age 85.

AirAsia drop their loyal passengers at age 75 and won't offer any cover.

[Thighlander]

I think they were doing a co-op thing in Pattaya. Sounds to me like it would be in violation of many different laws involving company registration, insurance regulations, work permits, and might be in a gray area on securities.

I just got another policy for 62 days (July and August), 250 USD deductible and 1,000,000 USD coverage....cost 197.78.

"We are pleased to confirm short term medical coverage under the Atlas Series, Insured by Syndicate 4141 at Lloyd's, London and administered by HCC Medical Insurance Services"..............................Atlas Travel satisfies Schengen Visa health insurance requirements.

Effective Date: 07/01/2014

Home Country: United States

Destination Country(ies): Thailand

I have a card with a toll free number, (that I have tried from here), and a code to enter, and policy number I can use 24/7/365. They do direct payment to RAM and quite a few in BKK.

Now if I were willing to raise my deductible to 1000 USD; it would be 76.80 usd for the 30 day month of September. But, reducing coverage from 1 million to 500,000 only saves you 1.50 usd.....and it would be 75.30 per month.....I'm 50 yo, and that has already been factored in.

I had to quote a travel insurance policy number to get a visa for China. Took some finding but eventually located a company who will cover travel to age 85.

AirAsia drop their loyal passengers at age 75 and won't offer any cover.

With this policy, you can just access your account online, and print a pdf letter for visa. I didn't need it, but wanted to see what it looked like, and it does provide a lot of relevant information about the policy, that a hospital might want to see.......anything for a few less "just a moments" in Thailand.

If I were 75, with a 1000 Dollar deductible.....30 day premium is 139 for 50K coverage, or 169 for 100K coverage.....should be enough to get you back to the US for Medicare.

[sappersrest]

Bangkok Bank do an accident insurance around 2-4k a year depending on cover. Over 60s accepted, you get a card to keep with you to show the hospital. Go into any branch they will be delighted to sell you cover.

When you say over 60's accepted what is the cap .......70 ?

.

Up to 100 years old (senior plan)

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/PA1st.aspx

[masuk]

The question remains: does anyone offer medical insurance for over 75s (not accident insurance), not USA.

Translation pls. But how about an A&E only cover.

[mccw]

Travel insurance isn't normally available for people away for 3 months, sometime 6. But my thoughts were for permanent residents rather than tourists.

Not checked the links yet,

Thanks for feedback

[beau thai]

I agree with your thoughts MCCW and have searched for cover with a very high deductible (say US$20k -or more) without success.

I am happy to self insure to a reasonably high level but would like (non--accident cover) for stuff like heart transplants, really costly cancer treatments and other critical illnesses, but that doesnt seem an attractive area to insurers.

Odd really, because the high deductible takes them out of semi-fictitious claims (whiplash etc) and admin costs, associated with smaller stuff.

Maybe there is just not enough demand to give them the numbers to generate a decent aggregate pool to cover claims- and profit!

[Thighlander]

Travel insurance isn't normally available for people away for 3 months, sometime 6. But my thoughts were for permanent residents rather than tourists.

Not checked the links yet,

Thanks for feedback

A common myth on TV. HCC policies (and IMG) are good for up to a year at a time. You can string them together. There is also a fallacy in the concept of "Health Insurance." Sure, it is renewable; but wait until you see the increases in your premium, even when you don't make a claim...and if you do make a claim, you could be faced with prohibitively expensive premiums....like 1000 usd per month! Not what I would call peace of mind. Some of the missionaries use these policies for years.... it doesn't matter how long you have been here, or how long you will stay. Citizenship is important, and not being able to seek treatment in the US are both critical factors. 300,000 THB coverage from BKK Bank? good for a broken leg or a not so serious motorcycle accident (which may be excluded for those over 50)...but it's really not very much coverage. I make regular contact with my agent in Indiana; there is no hiding the fact that I am here indefinitely. I'm on my third policy since January.

[mccw]

Travel insurance isn't normally available for people away for 3 months, sometime 6. But my thoughts were for permanent residents rather than tourists.

Not checked the links yet,

Thanks for feedback

A common myth on TV. HCC policies (and IMG) are good for up to a year at a time. You can string them together. There is also a fallacy in the concept of "Health Insurance." Sure, it is renewable; but wait until you see the increases in your premium, even when you don't make a claim...and if you do make a claim, you could be faced with prohibitively expensive premiums....like 1000 usd per month! Not what I would call peace of mind. Some of the missionaries use these policies for years.... it doesn't matter how long you have been here, or how long you will stay. Citizenship is important, and not being able to seek treatment in the US are both critical factors. 300,000 THB coverage from BKK Bank? good for a broken leg or a not so serious motorcycle accident (which may be excluded for those over 50)...but it's really not very much coverage. I make regular contact with my agent in Indiana; there is no hiding the fact that I am here indefinitely. I'm on my third policy since January.

U might be in for a surprise if u need to make a claim.

I was on travel insurance with PPP UK , o a yearly renewable policy; all fine I was assured by the sales agent eager to make the commission I'm sure. But when I came to make a claim buried in the small print was a clause say it saying each trip with in the year must not be more than 3 months. Ie returning to UK to start another trip.

All the other insurance companies I asked did not cover over 6 months consecutive trip. This is UK asking though.

The other option was to take a foreign residents health insurance specific to country ie Thailand. But then the premiums were much higher than a tourist travel policy.

If you do have such a policy be great if you could share the company and all details for other to benefit.

[Sydneycraig]

LVE liverpool victoria cover 6 + months... from the uk ... Also cover motorbike accidents upto 150cc

[Thighlander]

If the trip has to be less than 3 months; seems odd that you select the number of days of coverage from 5-364 days, and pay accordingly. These policies are extendable up to a year, but not renewable....but I already went into the myths associated with renewability. But, you could do a year at at time, indefinitely. Those, who have chosen to not keep an address or citizenship in their home countries could face enrollment difficulties. I did mine 3 months, 2 months, and another two months. Raised my deductible from 0 to 100 then to 250 USD to cut cost....Allianz charges double for something very similar. My letter of confirmation of coverage is signed by Mark Carney, Plan Administrator for Lloyd's, Walsingham House, 35 Seething Lane, London......My company and agent are in America. I would have recourse in the USA.

You are painting all insurance companies with the same brush, due to your failure to buy the correct type of policy, and actually read the policy details. If I had so called "free" coverage in the US; I would likely be looking for coverage to get evacuated back home...which would be significantly less.

[northernjohn]

Bangkok Bank do an accident insurance around 2-4k a year depending on cover. Over 60s accepted, you get a card to keep with you to show the hospital. Go into any branch they will be delighted to sell you cover.

I got mine at Commercial Bank of Siam. It comes in a 5 year package and is unavailable over 70. I got mine at 70 so I am good with that for 5 years.

[mccw]

Since we are sharing.

I got my family policy. 2 adult in 30s and two kids under 10.

Pay yearly; after twenty consecutive years and then get free cover for the rest of your life.

AIA Thailand.

In patient; A&E; full package.

[masuk]

Bangkok Bank do an accident insurance around 2-4k a year depending on cover. Over 60s accepted, you get a card to keep with you to show the hospital. Go into any branch they will be delighted to sell you cover.

I got mine at Commercial Bank of Siam. It comes in a 5 year package and is unavailable over 70. I got mine at 70 so I am good with that for 5 years.

Obviously, once we hit pensionable age (70 promised in Australia before too long) we're meant to sit back in our wheel chairs, watch TV, never go anywhere.

Governments in many countries are worried we're all hanging on too long.

The Thai government must be doing ok out of all us old f....s, bringing in a monthly pension, spending it all here in Thailand on rent, food, travel, local tourism. It shouldn't be too much to ask that some sort of basic healthcare is available to us.

Compare our monthly income with say the average Thai wages worker, on 35 baht per hour. We're obviously spending a lot more, and thus much more GST, rent tax, fuel tax. Yet we're uninsurable.

Someone want to do some research? how many farang retirees are there in Thailand.? Average pension paid into Thai banks?

[mccw]

Well- it is as one gets older that the bills statistically get bigger for medical obviously. Western governments going broke with the demographic shift and health promises. NHS in UK for example sucks up more money than all the other spending sectors, yet it is still on the edge of collapse we are constantly told.

I wouldn't want to see Thailand repeat the same mistakes and go bankrupt trying to take care of a bunch of foreigners even if they do feed the economy a bit.

But a basic care cover like for heart attack; accident and emergency would be good for those here above insurable age of course. It's a very real problem. Hence my post. I am talking about residents. Long term.

Rather than wait for the government and moan about how unfair it all is (not so much this thread in particular but the last ones and generally); any ideas how to organise a grass roots solution?

Some one mentioned a co-op in Pataya- any more detail on this? Maybe you some one could set up a branch link for chiang mai?

Or maybe someone could start something similar.

I thinking run it based on a local hospital level (ie not RAM etc) and have a high ish excess to avoid abuse/ spurious claims. Just a last resort worse case scenario.

Things like on going meds I do not think would be affordable at all.

But better something than nothing.

Or is there something like this slready? For the over 70s or 75s?

Both my parents live here too btw and are over the age limits of what I can find.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Travel insurance isn't normally available for people away for 3 months, sometime 6. But my thoughts were for permanent residents rather than tourists.

Not checked the links yet,

Thanks for feedback

A common myth on TV. HCC policies (and IMG) are good for up to a year at a time. You can string them together. There is also a fallacy in the concept of "Health Insurance." Sure, it is renewable; but wait until you see the increases in your premium, even when you don't make a claim...and if you do make a claim, you could be faced with prohibitively expensive premiums....like 1000 usd per month! Not what I would call peace of mind. Some of the missionaries use these policies for years.... it doesn't matter how long you have been here, or how long you will stay. Citizenship is important, and not being able to seek treatment in the US are both critical factors. 300,000 THB coverage from BKK Bank? good for a broken leg or a not so serious motorcycle accident (which may be excluded for those over 50)...but it's really not very much coverage. I make regular contact with my agent in Indiana; there is no hiding the fact that I am here indefinitely. I'm on my third policy since January.

U might be in for a surprise if u need to make a claim.

I was on travel insurance with PPP UK , o a yearly renewable policy; all fine I was assured by the sales agent eager to make the commission I'm sure. But when I came to make a claim buried in the small print was a clause say it saying each trip with in the year must not be more than 3 months. Ie returning to UK to start another trip.

All the other insurance companies I asked did not cover over 6 months consecutive trip. This is UK asking though.

The other option was to take a foreign residents health insurance specific to country ie Thailand. But then the premiums were much higher than a tourist travel policy.

If you do have such a policy be great if you could share the company and all details for other to benefit.

Insurance very rarely seems clear and what should be simple an understandable gets fuzzy quickly. I only know about travel insurance from a UK perspective but I have experience of a few points which people come unstuck.

To get a travel insurance you normally have to be resident of the UK or EU. So if you have been in Thailand for a few years you won't be able to take out a travel insurance for the final few months before you pop back to UK for the summer or if you do take one out its worthless when you make some big money health claim.

Thailanders policy says home country USA but have you been in Thailand for a number of years? Are you now considered a resident of Thailand and not a US resident? I am sure you have checked its all good but in the UK the insurers may turn a big claim down for being non resident.

You can get travel insurance for 12 months plus in the UK for a single continuous trip. This is what someone on a round the world ticket may take out or someone coming over to Thailand on 6 month or 1 year Asia trip may take. The thing with a single trip policy is it will end when the time is up or whenever you return home. So if after 6 weeks you fly home for a funeral or something, then fly back to resume your long stay trip in Asia the insurance has ended. You have no cover. You may spend the next 6 months thinking your insured

But actually your not. That always seems to be a scam to me but its legal.

Failure to declare any material fact, pre existing medical condition like having the flu in the last 12 months ( who declares that or a bad cold) and the insurer can turn your claim down and cancel the whole policy. It's all legal from the insurers side. They have option of doing that especially if its a huge medical claim. The shitty companies will do it for sure if they can.

Some people but not many, ignore the 12 month policy costing gbp 1000 because they have found a 12 month annual multi trip policy, worldwide cover including the USA for gbp 100! What the few don't realize is each trip can't be longer than 30 days total ( 21 , 45 days whatever) before you return home. You can do as many trips as you like in the 12 months. If any single trip is over that duration you have no cover at all and some people go for years renewing these annual multi trip policies until they make a claim and they find out they have nothing.

You do some business for a few days whilst away, no longer a pure holiday. You didn't declare it, Shitty insurance company declines the claim.

Your on a nice 6 month trip to Thailand for the winter. You have a 6 month policy fully covered no worries.

Your bag gets tampered with on a bus to korat. Luckily they only rob your best jeans , a nice belt , blah blah...nothing major but you will be making a claim when you get back home. You get a police report because you know they will want that stuff and you have receipts for your clothes. 4 months later your home you make a claim and they pay nothing! You didn't report the loss to the insurer within 2 weeks of it happening as it states on page 37 of the policy book. You didn't phone them up from korat when it happened to log the claim!!

That seems like a scam to me but its legal. It goes on and on.....

[jpinx]

Bangkok Bank do an accident insurance around 2-4k a year depending on cover. Over 60s accepted, you get a card to keep with you to show the hospital. Go into any branch they will be delighted to sell you cover.

When you say over 60's accepted what is the cap .......70 ?

.

Up to 100 years old (senior plan)

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/PA1st.aspx

Looks interesting as a fill-in policy. What're the catches in the small print? Any restrictions on how pay-outs are made? Do they accept non-customers?

P.S. Looks like the same insurance company that Bangkok Bank use has an A&E policy

http://www.bangkokinsurance.com/insurance/ph-insurance-seller.php

but details are sparse until you make an application.

Anyone got experience of their reality ?

Edited July 9, 2014 by jpinx

[dave2]

re

Bangkok Bank do an accident insurance around 2-4k a year depending on cover. Over 60s accepted, you get a card to keep with you to show the hospital

hes right

but .... and it was a very important but for me !

after two years of paying it and thinking i was covered for a motorbike crash @ 63 yo

a well known lady member in here pointed out to me one day that it didnt include cover for that in the small print

and she was right !

so ive not re newed it again

dave2

[kiwitezza]

I have accident insurance with Bangkok Bank. Each year the cost is around 3,500 baht. 100,000 baht maximum claim per accident. 1,000,000 baht if death by accident.

2 years ago a 10 year old girl decided to do a U turn in front of me. I ended up with 2 cracked bones in my arm. Went to Bangkok International Hospital and my insurance paid all costs and back up treatments too.

[jpinx]

re

Bangkok Bank do an accident insurance around 2-4k a year depending on cover. Over 60s accepted, you get a card to keep with you to show the hospital

hes right

but .... and it was a very important but for me !

after two years of paying it and thinking i was covered for a motorbike crash @ 63 yo

a well known lady member in here pointed out to me one day that it didnt include cover for that in the small print

and she was right !

so ive not re newed it again

dave2

Hence my question above. The website clearly states that age 50 to 100 has coverage

" - Accident while driving

or traveling on a

motorcycle "

... but the small print must have some exclusion. I'd be very interested to hear what was pointed out to you and in what small print.

[Thighlander]

from bkk bank's website.......http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/PA1st.aspx

I went to school for 17 years, and I would say that it clearly states you will get zero for motorcycle xzdan.

The other plan goes up to 65......http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/PA1st.aspx

on this one, for 2480; you get 30,000 coverage for motorcycle accident, but zero for physical therapy.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Thighlander

[Konini]

Very important points raised above in regard to most travel policies limitations on length of each trip and motorcycle coverage.

We (aged 50 and 51) have an annual travel policy which allows for trips up to 365 days, air evacuation home, and is renewable without us having to go back to base. We used to have a straight backpacker type medical-only policy, worldwide except USA which was fine when we were going back to Aus every 12 months to renew it (had to be in the country at the time of application), but this year we didn't go back so switched to a policy with World Nomads - I emailed them questions and got specific answers about coverage for motorcycle (most policies from EU DO NOT cover any kind of motorcycle accident, certainly none I've ever seen from UK) and about being overseas when taking out the policy, as this was very clear in our previous one. A bit more expensive ($1,250 rather than $950 a year for both of us) but we've now got coverage for some dental/baggage/flight cancellations etc, which we really don't need but it's the only policy they do.

We only care about the accidents and emergencies for the time being; we're both in good general health and are not worried at this stage about anything other than emergencies. We had to make enquiries once thinking that we would have to make a claim and on another occasion we did make a claim and had no problems whatsoever either time.

I'd urge everybody to take a bit of time to read the small print of your policies and find out what you are covered for, and if unable to make sense out of it send a very detailed and specific email to your insurer and keep on at them until you have an answer which you will be able to rely on later as proof that you believe you are covered.

[NancyL]

Thighlander -- have you filed a claim and had it paid with this travel insurance policy? As has been pointed out by several people, you may be deluding yourself into thinking you have coverage.

About the Bangkok Bank Personal Accident Senior 1st policy -- it does indeed cover up to age 100 and is very affordable (maximum premium is 5080 baht/year) However, the maximum payout is 60,000 baht if broken bones are involved. Repair of a hip fracture is about 120,00 - 150,000 baht, even at Suan Dok hospital. It does include nice features like 1000 baht/day for up to one month of rehab therapy (that would just about cover a month of in-patient rehab at McKean Rehabilitation Center)and 600,000 baht life insurance if you die in an accident. Plus, you don't have to be a Bangkok Bank customer to buy the policy.

I have heard first-hand accounts from about a dozen people who have filed claims. They have come to hospital (even fancy private ones like CM Ram) after an accident, showed their Bangkok Bank insurance card and never had to pay a bill. The card is well-accepted all around town. They've not had problems renewing the policy even if they've made claims.

To me the big problems with this policy are the low maximum pay-out and the fact it doesn't cover an accident while driving or traveling on a motorcycle. That little exclusion isn't obvious if you look at the chart on their website http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PERSONALBANKING/BUILDYOURWEALTH/BANCASSURANCE/NONLIFEINSURANCE/Pages/PA1st.aspx and the staff at the local Bangkok Bank branches are often mis-informed because accidents while on motorcycles are covered for people under age 50. These shortcomings -- both in their English language promotional materials and their staff training -- have been brought to their attention at the highest levels.

Even with these shortcomings, I personally have this policy. I also have a comprehensive medical policy from an international company, but with a high deductible. In the event of an accident, I'll use the Bangkok Bank policy to pay the deductible that the medical insurance policy won't cover. And in the case of my typical accident (a fall on the sidewalk because I wasn't watching where I was walking or a nasty cut with a kitchen knife), Bangkok Bank's policy will cover the entire cost of the boo-boo.

Edited July 10, 2014 by NancyL

[jpinx]

from bkk bank's website.......http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/PA1st.aspx

I went to school for 17 years, and I would say that it clearly states you will get zero for motorcycle xzdan.

The other plan goes up to 65......http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/PA1st.aspx

on this one, for 2480; you get 30,000 coverage for motorcycle accident, but zero for physical therapy.

Motorbike accidents are not excluded if you are hit by one while walking down the road -- which is the scenario I am looking at (amongst others). If you actually ride a motorbike here I think you'd probably need insurance specific for that. As an occasional user of motorbike taxis - I know that's not covered .....

Note the way the webpage displays -- very ambiguous....

Edited July 10, 2014 by jpinx