Tourist visa holders denied entry to Thailand and left stranded in Malaysia

[chrisinth]

Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

[fullcave]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

I just wish the USA enforced their immigration laws like the Thais do.

The difference is, The USA needs migrant workers, much like thailand needs burmese. Thailand does not need budget farang pretending to be here as tourists and in most cases working illegally.

Most cases these people are working in Thailand illegally? How do you know this?

Not trying to defend illegal workers but seems to me this could easily be varified by checking for work permits. Would certinly be better than the possibility of harassing legitimate, cach spending, long term tourists who have no intention or desire to open a bisiness or work in Thailand. Likewise, there are many that work off shore for a month to six weeks at a time and then spend thier money $$ between jobs in Thailand between.

[shadow1961]

Are we Tourists?

Arrived in Thailand July 11, 2012. Met a Laos woman in Sept 2012 and got engaged in Vientiane in early 2013. I have a application for permanent resident in process for my common law spouse with Canada immigration in Singapore. We received interview letter from CIC in Feb 2014, wait time not more than 24 months. My wife is now 5 months pregnant. We cannot live together in Laos as we are not married. We have been in Thailand on Tourist visas and a few border runs as well since 2012 waiting for immigration Canada decision. I have steady income from Canada that I can show. We are not working in Thailand.

Are we considered as tourists in Thailand? Do we need to pack or bags and wait it out in the Phillipines? Do we deliver the baby in Thailand or the Phillipines? Now we are in Vientiane applying for 2x 60 day visas this would allow us to have our child in Thailand. We are afraid we may be refused on second 60 day entry.

I think with all the uncertainty with Thai immigration that we should pack up and leave! No more stress thinking about Thai immigration.

Where are all the experts? Where do we stand? Waiting for your comments on this.

[transam]

Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

I do know folk who teach private for years using tourist visas. They are out there.

[ParadiseLost]

...

How about u are rich and young and not married?

What kind of visa please?

How to know if your "richness" comes from any, or all of the following: drug trade, organized crime, extortion, burglary, fraud, human trafficking...

Having money is not a judge of worthiness, unfortunately for you.

Perhaps Thailand is going back to more Buddhist principles, which is what attracted many here in the first place.

[JDGRUEN]

@JDGRUEN, if you go back and read the newspaper article from May, the two high-ranking officers from Immigration both readily admit that they allowed back-to-back exemptions and Tourist Visas when they shouldnt have done so - classic TiT - but isnt that why this is termed a 'crackdown' instead of 'new rules and regulations' ? They are simply enforcing their own rules - granted, I dont have a link to those rules but I didnt have a link when they enforced the '90 days in any 6-month period' rules either. I also reject the suggestion that this has been sprung on people without warning, at least for those with even a passing interest in this forum.

I'm not here to 'apologize' for Thai Immigration or anyone else involved in this particular episode but this board should be about finding ways to work with the system as it stands, not the way it was a month ago or the way we'd like it to be. I've had issues with Australian Immigration at Brisbane airport going back to the early noughties but nothing I've ever said to them has made one iota of difference - those guys just have a thing for single men returning from Asia and I have to accept that they catch enough drug mules over time to vindicate their profiling. In this case, we have zero figures to confirm that the first stages of the Thai crackdown are succeeding in the stated aim of ridding the country of illegal workers but for now our focus should be on establishing the best way to deal with reality, not pointing out the many flaws in the system. End of sermon

I appreciate your constructive comments but not sure why you directed them to me. Never the less when an Authority such as the Thai Immigration system ... Border Police, etc. began not enforcing certain aspects of immigration law such as allowing back to back tourist visa and back to back border runs - turn arounds, tec. ... they created De Facto law... and for years it has been that way. What my posts have been about is that some here on TVF sanctimoniously apply a broad bush stereotype to those who have stayed in Thailand - long stay only using what was allowed by Thai immigration without deception. And not all of them by far were working illegally, working on line, running a business, etc. Some,if not many, were here enjoying the fruits of their labor of past years and just happen to be under age 50. Labeling past tourist visa users - who used such for a long stay - as people who abused the system is just plain wrong. And - those who do are certainly not contributing to "establishing the best way to deal with reality" They're rewriting recent history of the Thai Immigration system.

"Sprung on people without warning" ... there are lots of people who come to Thailand on Tourist Visas and have never heard of TVF or endless discussions on visas. Why should they have to? ... They may have only planned to be here 90 to 120 days. There are plenty of young people who have the financial means to do that. They used a system that seem normal to them - no reason to become an immigration / visa expert. Such as my friends Michael and his wife ... my neighbors... who are now stuck in Malaysia for doing nothing but using the facilities of the De - Facto Thai Law relative to visas and border runs. They have been denied entry for having too many extensions. They are using thousands and thousands of Baht to try to recover from this situation. They had to sign an 'Alien' document and were directed to go to Penang and get a new tourist visa. But we find out reading TVF that some newly issued Tourist Visas out of Penang are not being honored... recent horror story on TVF... I don't know the status of Mike and his g/f - a young German couple... but they may be on their way to Kuala Lumpur to try to fly to Bkk -- that is IF they were granted the Visa at Penang ... or they may be heading back to the border by van or bus not knowing that they may be turned away again or maybe not... And - they did absolutely nothing wrong ... they are newbies and didn't know about the adage "TiT"... Rather - they just spent tens of thousands of Baht on Thailand helping the tourism revenues... Now they are spending money in Malaysia to get back here to recover their belongings... and get on the airplane on July 29 (booked in June) and go to Indonesia or the Philippines (can't remember)... Terrible people they are .... / not

Edited July 14, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[AloisAmrein]

It is time to spend the money in other countries, not in Thailand. TAT will be very happy about this new policy of the Immigration.

[BillR]

Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

You live in a cave? There are so many people LIVING here on tourists visa's receiving income from Thailand. You never been to a restaurant/bar opened by a farang for his GF or wife? Nothing illegal about that, but they are on TOURIST visa and not really tourists are they? You never met a farang selling or renting property on the side? You never know an English Teacher? You want a link? PLEASE.

[BillR]

It is time to spend the money in other countries, not in Thailand. TAT will be very happy about this new policy of the Immigration.

Don't let door = ass

[RogueLeader]

No farang in their right mind would marry a girl within 30 days (or less) of knowing them just to get a non-imm visa.

Fortunately for Thailand, there are a lot of farang in anything other than their right mind.

[draftvader]

Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

I do know folk who teach private for years using tourist visas. They are out there.

Utterly agreed. I have had 2nd hand experience of many people who are working for some of the cheaper mall language centers, teaching at schools through agencies and more. Plenty in this category with whole agencies specialising to them including arranging the border runs. Summer camps are staffed by this category too. My wife (6 years teaching at International Kindergarten) spoke to one of them once and they explained that they weren't interested in a qualified teacher.

Think on this. How do these English language centers cater to B150 per lesson students and make a profit?

[alocacoc]

Are we Tourists?

Arrived in Thailand July 11, 2012. Met a Laos woman in Sept 2012 and got engaged in Vientiane in early 2013. I have a application for permanent resident in process for my common law spouse with Canada immigration in Singapore. We received interview letter from CIC in Feb 2014, wait time not more than 24 months. My wife is now 5 months pregnant. We cannot live together in Laos as we are not married. We have been in Thailand on Tourist visas and a few border runs as well since 2012 waiting for immigration Canada decision. I have steady income from Canada that I can show. We are not working in Thailand.

Are we considered as tourists in Thailand? Do we need to pack or bags and wait it out in the Phillipines? Do we deliver the baby in Thailand or the Phillipines? Now we are in Vientiane applying for 2x 60 day visas this would allow us to have our child in Thailand. We are afraid we may be refused on second 60 day entry.

I think with all the uncertainty with Thai immigration that we should pack up and leave! No more stress thinking about Thai immigration.

Where are all the experts? Where do we stand? Waiting for your comments on this.

Serious? This topic is full of experts. And also of moral apostle, bigots and hypocrite.

[BillR]

@JDGRUEN, if you go back and read the newspaper article from May, the two high-ranking officers from Immigration both readily admit that they allowed back-to-back exemptions and Tourist Visas when they shouldnt have done so - classic TiT - but isnt that why this is termed a 'crackdown' instead of 'new rules and regulations' ? They are simply enforcing their own rules - granted, I dont have a link to those rules but I didnt have a link when they enforced the '90 days in any 6-month period' rules either. I also reject the suggestion that this has been sprung on people without warning, at least for those with even a passing interest in this forum.

I'm not here to 'apologize' for Thai Immigration or anyone else involved in this particular episode but this board should be about finding ways to work with the system as it stands, not the way it was a month ago or the way we'd like it to be. I've had issues with Australian Immigration at Brisbane airport going back to the early noughties but nothing I've ever said to them has made one iota of difference - those guys just have a thing for single men returning from Asia and I have to accept that they catch enough drug mules over time to vindicate their profiling. In this case, we have zero figures to confirm that the first stages of the Thai crackdown are succeeding in the stated aim of ridding the country of illegal workers but for now our focus should be on establishing the best way to deal with reality, not pointing out the many flaws in the system. End of sermon

Rather - they just spent tens of thousands of Baht on Thailand helping the tourism revenues... Now they are spending money in Malaysia to get back here to recover their belongings... and get on the airplane on July 29 (booked in June) and go to Indonesia or the Philippines (can't remember)... Terrible people they are .... / not

Get Real, nobody does visa runs by border bus unless they are poor. The money won't be missed

[Tatsujin]

Are we Tourists?

Arrived in Thailand July 11, 2012. Met a Laos woman in Sept 2012 and got engaged in Vientiane in early 2013. I have a application for permanent resident in process for my common law spouse with Canada immigration in Singapore. We received interview letter from CIC in Feb 2014, wait time not more than 24 months. My wife is now 5 months pregnant. We cannot live together in Laos as we are not married. We have been in Thailand on Tourist visas and a few border runs as well since 2012 waiting for immigration Canada decision. I have steady income from Canada that I can show. We are not working in Thailand.

Are we considered as tourists in Thailand? Do we need to pack or bags and wait it out in the Phillipines? Do we deliver the baby in Thailand or the Phillipines? Now we are in Vientiane applying for 2x 60 day visas this would allow us to have our child in Thailand. We are afraid we may be refused on second 60 day entry.

I think with all the uncertainty with Thai immigration that we should pack up and leave! No more stress thinking about Thai immigration.

Where are all the experts? Where do we stand? Waiting for your comments on this.

You are not Thai, your wife/gf is from Laos, she's pregnant, you've lived here on and off since 2012 using tourist visa's, you are pursuing residency in Canada through Singapore. you're currently in Vientienne . . . no, you're not a "tourist" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not sure why you would expect to be able to live indefinitely in ANY country (other than your own home countries) whilst you pursue applications to reside in yet another country.

[dutchisaan]

By reading this threat, 18 pages, it's cleR that a lot of people will find themself on the wrong side of the immigration officer.

It's simple, the easy times are over, get the right visa and ply by the rules.

Oh, by the way I love the remarks from some members that they will start cracking down on riterment and marrige extentions, look like these are the people that will be posting on this form from outside Thailand very soon.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MrWorldwide]

All he fools pointing fingers with a smug, more-legal-than-thou attitude should be very worried indeed. 800,000 baht isn't a lot of money these days. There are rumblings that it's going to be increased substantially. There are also rumours suggesting that the Thai Embassy in London is only issuing retirement visas to over 65s.

Please link me to said rumblings and rumours,

The London embassy has already changed the rules very recently

If you are under 65 you will not be granted a Multiple Entry type O visa unless you are married to a Thai or have Thai children

If you are over 50 you need to apply for a Type OA Retirement visa providing you can comply with the requirements - Police report - Medical Report and have the required finances

There is absolutely no substance to the rumour that financial requirements are going to change as you stated - gossip and hearsay

What bothers me about this thread is the fact that so many people believe that getting a Visa will guarantee entry into Thailand at a border crossing - This is not the case - never has been - and never will be, and this doesn't only apply to Thailand

So stop asking these stupid repeated questions like you have some primordial permission from office staff at a consulate or embassy because you obtained a tourist visa - it is you that is defining yourself as a tourist on your application - immigration at a border crossing may not agree

1. Absolutely fine with me - I have an extension of stay granted by the Immigration office in Jomtien - not overly concerned about what they've elected to do in London. Retrospectively raising the age where one can apply to stay in the Kingdom would simply mean that I would need to move to Cambodia prior to 30 Sept 2014 - in either case, I wont be left standing at a border crossing or a Consulate wondering what to do about my possessions here in Thailand.

2. I believe you are being a little harsh on those who have worked on the assumption that getting the visa was the equivalent of being given permission to stay in Thailand and - prior to about one month ago - I would have been in that camp. As JDGRUEN pointed out to me, not everyone spends their day poring over visa threads in this forum.

[Suradit69]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

Yes and related to this is the confusion many posters continue to make between Immigrations and Embassies/consulates as well as the continued misunderstanding amongst so many Thai Visa posters as to the basis upon which they are staying in the country.

The visa issued by consulates and embassies is similar to a letter of introduction that you hand over to Immigrations at a port of entry. Permission to enter the country (or not), the length of your stay and the conditions under which you are permitted to stay is totally up to Immigrations as is any extension of stay in the country.

The purpose of a visa exempt entry is to allow someone to visit Thailand briefly. A tourist visa may permit a longer stay, but it is still intended for a comparatively short visit. An education visa is for those who seriously want to learn at a school, college or university.

So many people have bragged about staying here for years misusing these various modes of entry into the country. When anyone poses a question about staying in Thailand for long periods if the writer doesn't qualify for a long stay extension the advice is always about how to circumvent the spirit, if not the letter, of the regulations and rules. Anyone claiming he thought it was totally OK to do border runs or serial visa runs is either kidding himself or he's been drinking the Thai Visa Kool-Aid too long.

People in the government, in Immigrations, in the police, read these forums and other farang-centric websites. Do you really think you can go on forever conversing "in private" about how you never do 90 days reports or how you're on 6 year overstay or about which embassy or consulates hands out tourist visas with no questions asked?

The problem is not the Thai government or Immigrations. If you still cling to that mantra you're in denial. And of course in so many cases if someone mentioned this before, another poster would immediately chime in with "get off your high horse," or "you're being pedantic."

Edited July 14, 2014 by Suradit69

[shadow1961]

Are we Tourists?

Arrived in Thailand July 11, 2012. Met a Laos woman in Sept 2012 and got engaged in Vientiane in early 2013. I have a application for permanent resident in process for my common law spouse with Canada immigration in Singapore. We received interview letter from CIC in Feb 2014, wait time not more than 24 months. My wife is now 5 months pregnant. We cannot live together in Laos as we are not married. We have been in Thailand on Tourist visas and a few border runs as well since 2012 waiting for immigration Canada decision. I have steady income from Canada that I can show. We are not working in Thailand.

Are we considered as tourists in Thailand? Do we need to pack or bags and wait it out in the Phillipines? Do we deliver the baby in Thailand or the Phillipines? Now we are in Vientiane applying for 2x 60 day visas this would allow us to have our child in Thailand. We are afraid we may be refused on second 60 day entry.

I think with all the uncertainty with Thai immigration that we should pack up and leave! No more stress thinking about Thai immigration.

Where are all the experts? Where do we stand? Waiting for your comments on this.

You are not Thai, your wife/gf is from Laos, she's pregnant, you've lived here on and off since 2012 using tourist visa's, you are pursuing residency in Canada through Singapore. you're currently in Vientienne . . . no, you're not a "tourist" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not sure why you would expect to be able to live indefinitely in ANY country (other than your own home countries) whilst you pursue applications to reside in yet another country.

We don't expect to stay here indefinitely. I hope someday you may be in our situation. Karma!

[OnMyWay2]

As the news of this spreads, more and more people will likely put of trips here as the confusion reigns.

^I seriously doubt this.

What it will do however is stop these people that have exploited a system that was not strictly enforced as it should have been. I support it 100%. I am glad those multi visa runners were displaced. I doubt they will be let back in from the airport

Either you are a tourist occasionally or you live here with a retirement, Marriage or Work visa.

I expect more borders to follow suit soon.

How about u are rich and young and not married?

What kind of visa please?

Investment visa. You need to invest 10 million baht in property or government bonds.

[smedly]

Are we Tourists?

Arrived in Thailand July 11, 2012. Met a Laos woman in Sept 2012 and got engaged in Vientiane in early 2013. I have a application for permanent resident in process for my common law spouse with Canada immigration in Singapore. We received interview letter from CIC in Feb 2014, wait time not more than 24 months. My wife is now 5 months pregnant. We cannot live together in Laos as we are not married. We have been in Thailand on Tourist visas and a few border runs as well since 2012 waiting for immigration Canada decision. I have steady income from Canada that I can show. We are not working in Thailand.

Are we considered as tourists in Thailand? Do we need to pack or bags and wait it out in the Phillipines? Do we deliver the baby in Thailand or the Phillipines? Now we are in Vientiane applying for 2x 60 day visas this would allow us to have our child in Thailand. We are afraid we may be refused on second 60 day entry.

I think with all the uncertainty with Thai immigration that we should pack up and leave! No more stress thinking about Thai immigration.

Where are all the experts? Where do we stand? Waiting for your comments on this.

Serious? This topic is full of experts. And also of moral apostle, bigots and hypocrite.

This thread is full of people asking serious questions and getting serious answers complicated by the odd idiot that chimes in and thinks he's a smartass and contributes nothing

This is a serious topic and people need to know where they stand which is why they come here and ask, the truth can sometimes be a bitter pill but none the less "the truth"

Over my years of living here most of those I have known on overstay or border runners have either been working illegally or criminals or both and many have been caught (usually selling drugs) some have been over 50 but most under 50

Not saying everyone falls into this profile just ones that have caught my attention

Do people really believe that the constant exit and entry of thousands of people every hour of every single day at land borders could continue - it is just wrong and everyone knows it and it has been increasing the last 3 years at an alarming rate - it has become abuse on an enormous scale - something was going to be done as it couldn't continue like that

[JDGRUEN]

@JDGRUEN, if you go back and read the newspaper article from May, the two high-ranking officers from Immigration both readily admit that they allowed back-to-back exemptions and Tourist Visas when they shouldnt have done so - classic TiT - but isnt that why this is termed a 'crackdown' instead of 'new rules and regulations' ? They are simply enforcing their own rules - granted, I dont have a link to those rules but I didnt have a link when they enforced the '90 days in any 6-month period' rules either. I also reject the suggestion that this has been sprung on people without warning, at least for those with even a passing interest in this forum.

I'm not here to 'apologize' for Thai Immigration or anyone else involved in this particular episode but this board should be about finding ways to work with the system as it stands, not the way it was a month ago or the way we'd like it to be. I've had issues with Australian Immigration at Brisbane airport going back to the early noughties but nothing I've ever said to them has made one iota of difference - those guys just have a thing for single men returning from Asia and I have to accept that they catch enough drug mules over time to vindicate their profiling. In this case, we have zero figures to confirm that the first stages of the Thai crackdown are succeeding in the stated aim of ridding the country of illegal workers but for now our focus should be on establishing the best way to deal with reality, not pointing out the many flaws in the system. End of sermon

Rather - they just spent tens of thousands of Baht on Thailand helping the tourism revenues... Now they are spending money in Malaysia to get back here to recover their belongings... and get on the airplane on July 29 (booked in June) and go to Indonesia or the Philippines (can't remember)... Terrible people they are .... / not

Get Real, nobody does visa runs by border bus unless they are poor. The money won't be missed

Thanks for your studied opinion on this ... it will go down in TVF history as one of the most constructive.

[MobileContent]

If your a tourist (financially stable and not working in the country) why should it matter how many tourist visas you have? If you have the funds to support yourself and wish to visit a country without being over 50, married to a local, or teaching English then why should it matter?

All these Thai Visa clowns are so quick to judge everyone else when they married a bar girl or borrowed money to put in an account for a retirement visa (ooops - how does it feel to be judged based on a small minority of people?)

First the Cambodians were kicked out - and people blamed the Cambodians for overreacting to rumours

Then the Myanmar refugees were kicked out - and people turned a blind eye to that

Now legit Visa holders are being denied - and they are being blamed for being "multiple tourist visa holders"

Its coming for you next. Let's see how your lovely loyal Thai wife deals with the mutual Thai bank account/ business/ property when your marriage visa renewal is denied. One thing is for sure, the next group in line to be targeted will be too busy pointing fingers at your faults to see it coming for them.

Post of the thread.

All he fools pointing fingers with a smug, more-legal-than-thou attitude should be very worried indeed. 800,000 baht isn't a lot of money these days. There are rumblings that it's going to be increased substantially. There are also rumours suggesting that the Thai Embassy in London is only issuing retirement visas to over 65s.

We, as an EX-PAT community have brought some of this on ourselves by not policing our own. If you know someone who is violating the VISA requirements - TURN THEM IN!!!!!!!!!!!

It's those folks who abuse the system and ruin it for the rest of the legitimate ex-pats!

God people like you make my blood boil.

What an idiotic pitchfork-wielding, yokel post. We're not supposed to police ourselves.

Of course it's not cricket for anyone to live here for years on end doing visa exempt entries - no one's denying that - but those people were not doing anything ILLEGAL.

It was a loophole that successive governments allowed to persist. Now they're clamping down - fair enough. How could the expat community police themselves when what is now frowned on was completely ignored for years by the country's own law enforcement?

Since your "knowledge" of the abuses is so accurate, why don't YOU turn someone in and we'll sit here eagerly awaiting to read the next thread you start in which you describe how some perfectly legit expat walked up to you and banged your lights out for poking your big nose into his business

You have a very valid point and JeffreyWitty seems to be by all counts totally out of touch.

7 months ago he didn't even know what a None Immigrant O visa was.

His official quote:

Sorry to ask these questions - but with the USA Government being broke - a lotta folks here are losing their jobs and being given only a weeks notice at most. I wanna have one of these VISAs in my pocket, ready to go if I ever get cut without warning.

In May he posted on the lawyer forum if he is allowed to participate in a convention as a professional illustrator/artist and if he needs a work permit if he start selling books/sketches here in Thailand.

Now two month later he calls himself a legitimate expat and Wants to Turn them in, also it looks like his first None-Imm O visa has not even expired.

I have been now over 24 years in Thailand but this post from JeffreyWitty needed my response.

He currently list his FB profile as:

Freelance Illustrator and Graphic Designer based in South Korea

When I developed Animations, Illustrator graphics here in Thailand I needed to have a WP and even then I didn't do the billings and the money for what it was sold was part of my salary. I am still paying between 35000 - 45000 Baht every month.

My advise for JeffreyWitty would be to keep a very low profile when posting those Turn them all in, specially if if you live in Thailand and use your real name as you too might be involved in freelance work yourself and you could be an easy target to someone that doesn't like your postings.

[stevenl]

Are we Tourists?

Arrived in Thailand July 11, 2012. Met a Laos woman in Sept 2012 and got engaged in Vientiane in early 2013. I have a application for permanent resident in process for my common law spouse with Canada immigration in Singapore. We received interview letter from CIC in Feb 2014, wait time not more than 24 months. My wife is now 5 months pregnant. We cannot live together in Laos as we are not married. We have been in Thailand on Tourist visas and a few border runs as well since 2012 waiting for immigration Canada decision. I have steady income from Canada that I can show. We are not working in Thailand.

Are we considered as tourists in Thailand? Do we need to pack or bags and wait it out in the Phillipines? Do we deliver the baby in Thailand or the Phillipines? Now we are in Vientiane applying for 2x 60 day visas this would allow us to have our child in Thailand. We are afraid we may be refused on second 60 day entry.

I think with all the uncertainty with Thai immigration that we should pack up and leave! No more stress thinking about Thai immigration.

Where are all the experts? Where do we stand? Waiting for your comments on this.

You are not Thai, your wife/gf is from Laos, she's pregnant, you've lived here on and off since 2012 using tourist visa's, you are pursuing residency in Canada through Singapore. you're currently in Vientienne . . . no, you're not a "tourist" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm not sure why you would expect to be able to live indefinitely in ANY country (other than your own home countries) whilst you pursue applications to reside in yet another country.

We don't expect to stay here indefinitely. I hope someday you may be in our situation. Karma!

Why make this personal? He is only giving you the information you were asking for. You're not a tourist.

[joecoolfrog]

As somebody who does not live ( perhaps 2 trips of 45-60 days yearly ) in Thailand, I am unlikely to be affected by these new regulations. I would however caution those who seem to think that visa crack downs can only be good news for both them and Thailand as a whole.

This may well be the case but dont dismiss the possibility that it could also be pure and simple xenophobia . It would hardly be the first time that a Junta or Nationalist government has played such a hand and it doesn't usually end well for any foreign residents.

My girlfriend lives close to Bangkok and supported the coup so surprised me when she said. '' Not everything the army does will be good , dont forget many Thai people dont like Farang , maybe the army dont like Farang ''

[DrTuner]

The TM7 form for extending Non O visas is titled:

Application For Extension Of Temporary Stay In The Kingdom.

The axe could fall anywhere.

This is correct. The next "level up" is the permanent residence permit (PR) or Thai nationality if married to a Thai. Both use a points system which you must pass and the largest hurdles seem to be the ability to speak Thai and having a job. Not trivial.

From the amount of comments I see that quite a few who are either married or have a "common law marriage" have been using TR visas/exemptions. They will now need to move to non-immigrant visas and some will not qualify, giving further options requiring cash (TE,investor) and without the cash, game over.

If after that Thai government is not satisfied with the bar being set high enough, they will continue to crack down further upon the road. It'll likely be the eradication of multiple entry non-imm visas in favor of extensions of permits to stay made within Thailand at the immigration offices. Which I reckon is their intended result.

[JLCrab]

While many have posted on this and other topics that the current 'crackdown' will have a major impact on Thai Tourism arrivals/expenditures, the data from 2012 is that average length of stay for ALL arrivals to Thailand is about 10 days with those from Europe staying an average of about 16 days. Those 'tourists' who stay for months or years may have a negligible impact on the overall tourism scene.

(2012 Thai Dept. of Tourism numbers)

[hawker9000]

This was inevitable. The immigration rules are an absolute shambles. Some rules apply in one place but not in another. It's the ultimate crapshoot

I've got a couple of friends who are on double/triple entry tourist visas in brand new passports who are thinking of less than legal means of re-entering because they're not prepared to take the risk that the border they use won't be staffed by morons.

They reckon there are quite a few services whereby, in return for ฿5,000, their passport can be stamped out, walked through the border by a "friendly" immigration officer, walked back in again and stamped with the appropriate date within 24 hours.

I heard that services had gone the way of the dodo and have, of course, advised these guys not to send their passports anywhere

Not really a great idea, IMO. Those stamps they'll get, which identify the IO granting the permission to stay (as well as date/time, etc.), constitute a lasting paper trail consisting of a de facto bogus entry stamp. At some point down the road, maybe somebody rats out somebody, or the matter somehow ends up on SOMEbody's agenda; now they're carrying around a passport with a stamp in it that links them to the scheme. It might just as well be on their forehead the next time they pass through immigration. Depending on what data they keep on file in their database (I really don't know), that could become a permanent gotcha' which follows them even after they get a new passport. If it DID ever come to light and was pursued, I expect the LEAST that could happen is revocation of the stamp, which then lands the owner in an overstay(ed) status. Probably blacklisting as well.

Wasn't there some action taken against some visa agencies in Pattaya or somewhere a few years back for doing something like this? 'Seem to remember something about some foreigners who'd used them (some I guess even in good faith, not knowing any better) having their visas revoked (or cancelled; whatever the right term is).

Mostly speculation I suppose. (Then again, those are pretty much the waters this whole immigration crackdown business has us awash in these days.) 'Sounds like risky business. No thanks.

[grantbkk]

Hopefully one of the mods will be able to offer some advice on my situation or maybe someone else in the same situation as me, im not looking to debate the rules as i agree with them being implemented, I am just looking for advice.

I work offshore 4weeks on 4weeks off and about 18 months ago i went to immigration to extend for 7 days on my exempt entry stamp. At this time i told the IO what i do and how i come in and out monthly and asked is there a better visa i could be using, his reply was just keep doing what you are doing it is fine.

So now it doesnt look like this is fine. I stay in a rented villa in a resort complex and am not married and not over 50 so i treat each trip back to thailand as basically a holiday, going to the beach, gym, restaurants and bars so i could pass as a "tourist" in my opinion.

I have applied for and been approved for the 5 year elite card however when i spoke to immigration in krabi they didnt even know about an elite visa. There is plenty of people on here saying it is a solution however the visa issued is a "special tourist" visa so there is a possibilty you could be denied entry even after buying it. I know this is highly unlikely but it is possible as other people are being turned away with legitimate visas.

What would you suggest is the best option for someone in my situation. Im just about ready to send off the form to pay for the elite visa but i am wondering if there is any other alternatives. I would not hesitate to take the elite visa if it was paid yearly however i am concerned that if the rules change again or my circumstances change in the 5 years.

It looks like 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off would not expose you to immigration problems if you are one of those people who are elligible for the 30 visa exemption on arrival. This costs you absolutely nothing.

There is no Elite Visa. There is a partnership with the government and Thai Elite that includes a five year visa. It matters not if if your local immigration office has heard of it or not, they will eventually. When you receive your visa from Thai Elite it will have an expiration date of five years from the beginning date stamped in your passport. You are good to go even if the Thai Elite program dies it will have no effect on your visa. Other Elite services would be gone but not the five year visa.

Grant,

I would like to think i am not going to have problems with immigration but i suspect i will as my passport is full of visa exempt stamps. They are a month apart but there is alot of them with very few stamps in between as i dont get stamped into Malaysia.

The elite card does not give you a 5 year visa, it only gives you a 1 year visa which is renewable 5 times, hence the reason i would prefer to pay only yearly.

Any other options anyone knows of. Im not trying to find loopholes, i would like a genuine solution to stay correctly.

I know a guy on his 3rd 5 year Elite program visa. Each one is for 5 years from the issue date. You only need to get the extension of stay if you do not leave Thailand for 12 months. Every time you arrive in the country the clock begins on that 12 months. No problem for you. In a recent thread there was a picture of a new 5 year visa expiring in 2019.

Sent from my LG-V500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The 5 year visa is only issued if you buy the 2million baht (+VAT+20,00 per year) elite card. The 500k elite card you are given a 1 year visa, renewable 5 times. Will still work for me.

This is the info i recieved from Thailand Elite as i have already applied and been approved and will go to Bangkok after this month at work to pay and recieve the visa in my passport if there is no other solution.

Hi Scotty. I went to the latest Elite thread and found the picture of the new "PE" visa. It is good for 5 years. I am not an expert but from what I read here and on the Elite website you do not need to re-up each year as long as you leave within 12 months. The stamp you get upon you return is good for another 12 months. Also, I feel you are still a tourist if you are doing 4 weeks out and back for 4 weeks no matter how many stamps in your passport. Good luck.

Sent from my LG-V500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[EBlair48]

"You are a tourist for 30 days, not more."

they mean business now, i hope it doesn't spread to the northern and eastern borders

Then a "60 Day Tourist Visa" is no longer issued? I would imagine that a more efficient way to limit "tourists" to 30 days, is to have all Thai Consulates/Embassies NOT issue any more 60 day tourist visas and let the ones already issued expire naturally!

I am betting a genuine tourist, with a first time multi entry 60 day will be allowed to travel into Thailand as many times as s/he wishes from neighboring countries during that period.

And business workers can always get transit visas.

Now I wish they would close the education visa loopholes, I know of at least 5 that work illegally.

[anon676545345]

It is time to spend the money in other countries, not in Thailand. TAT will be very happy about this new policy of the Immigration.

Don't let door = ass

That's a cynical reply, granted there won't be an impact on the Thai economy due to the people who are forced out or choose to leave because of the tightening visa laws. But there will be an impact on expat owned businesses. There will be a few less regular customers frequenting expat owned bars and restaurants during low season, and I'm sure an influx of financially stable expats will have a positive effect to the same sort of businesses in neighboring countries.