Tourist visa holders denied entry to Thailand and left stranded in Malaysia

[F K Thornbury]

if one has obtained a non-O multiple-entry visa due to marriage/family, they are in no way "abusing" anything by leaving and re-entering the country multiple times.

They are following the rules in order to be able to stay with loved ones.

Look at this from the point of view of the immigration officer:

• John received a single-entry NON-O visa and then applied for 1-year extension of stay based on marriage, showing 400k baht in the bank.
• Bob received a multi-entry NON-O from Savannakhet with no funds requirements and does a border run every 90 days

Which one of these is the correct way of permanently staying with the Thai family?

I know 90-day border runs on multi NON-O visas have been tolerated for decades but surely the necessity of border runs is in itself a symptom of not quite complying with the intent of the law.

1. Both are in complaince with Thai law. If you are asking me to speak for Thai Immigration/MFA/the Junta, I obviously cannot.

2. What part of "multi" is being lost on people here?

[Pi Suthep]

I dont really understand why people get angry about that new rules.

The only reason might be, that people abusing re-entry visas for a permanent stay considered this procedure as a privilege.

They should ask themselves, what would happen to their country, if everybody from all neighboring and other nations could stay permanently by simply doing a visa-run every 30 days ?

In Schengen countries and even in Ukraine, where many visa runners come from, the 90 days in 180 days rule is used.

[kingalfred]

Having to go out of the country and returning every 90 days rather than just reporting to immigration when in possession of a 1 year non o is madness and totally unreasonable(if its true)

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[firestar]

Disclaimer: I have no real skin in this game as I'm on a new non-O multi. I'm just curious.

Are you staying on back to back 90 day entries from a Multi visa? In this case it is clearly an abuse of the rules and not how this visa is intended to be used. If the crackdown continues, these visas may well become the next target after NON-EDs

How is a multi entry visa intended to be used? It's called a multiple entry visa so you can enter multiple times, is it not? So what rules are you referring too (please provide link)? Also, how do you know which visas will be next on the crackdown list or is that just complete speculation of your part?

He's speculating but the point he is trying to make is no-one living in Thailand is completely "safe".

Lots of abuse of non-O visas, people running bars/restaurant deriving income from Thailand. Others borrowing money for the security deposit. Something as simple as an increase in the minimal amount required to crackdown on "the scum" (as I've read) would leave many law abiding non-o holders in trouble so maybe it's time to show solidarity rather than thinking "as long as I'm ok it's all good".

[DrTuner]

Having to go out of the country and returning every 90 days rather than just reporting to immigration when in possession of a 1 year non o is madness and totally unreasonable(if its true)

That's the way a multi-entry non o works. You get 90 days every time you enter. The visa is valid for one year, meaning you can time your last entry just before it's expiration and get 1y 3months out of it.

Get an extension at the immigration in Thailand and you can stay without leaving. But that is 1y even. Life ain't fair, much less the visa rules.

[nottocus]

I dont really understand why people get angry about that new rules.

The only reason might be, that people abusing re-entry visas for a permanent stay considered this procedure as a privilege.

They should ask themselves, what would happen to their country, if everybody from all neighboring and other nations could stay permanently by simply doing a visa-run every 30 days ?

In Schengen countries and even in Ukraine, where many visa runners come from, the 90 days in 180 days rule is used.

Yep..agree with this.

Get the right visa and stop whinging like a bunch of little girls.

[max72]

I think no such thing, and you have no proof that every one of these people were legit tourists and not the kind that are exploiting loopholes.

But let's say they were: so they got caught up in some TiT-style bureaucracy. They are still being allowed back into the country - albeit, at some extra expense and inconvenience - but they are being allowed back in.

So, no door was closed. They were simply led from the front door to one on the side of the house. So simmer down big fella. Everyone will be much more vigilant after this episode, and if one is caught-up in this sort of snafu going forward it is another TIT-style cluster<deleted> or they were naive.

But after 12 August the doors will be definitely closed. at the airports too. So what are we supposed to do than ? We got a proper visa , we got an air ticket, we have belongings left in some hotel room and the doors are shut for no reason, only because in the past you have spent long holidays in Thailand breaking NO LAWS WHATSOEVER.

I don't know those guys, but let's suppose some of them were not working in Thailand justing lounging around as hundreds of thousands do to spend the winter away from a subfreezing country, why should they not allowed to go back at least to pick up their belongings ?

That's insane. They should at least give you a 7 day stamp to go and pick up your stuff.

You are laughing at them, but the day it will happen to you, you won't be happy to see other Thaivisa forumists making mockery of your problems.

[SunsetT]

"You are a tourist for 30 days, not more."

they mean business now, i hope it doesn't spread to the northern and eastern borders

"You are a tourist for 30 days, not more."

This sort of negates the fact that tourist visas are issued on a 60 day basis, with 1, 2 , or 3 entries.

Clearly the consulates don't know what the border checkpoints are doing.

I think Its improbable that they have been told to override the validity of a 60 day tourist visa entry, unless there is evidence of back to back tourist visas and entries in the passport. Im hoping that this could be, as I feared might happen, a misinterpretation of the new rules by overzealous border officials, If not its very disturbing.

[RTH10260]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

It's again worth remembering that possession of a visa doesn't guarantee the holder admission to a country, it's the Immigration Officer at the Border that has the final say, this applies to most countries in the World, including the likes of the UK, the Schengen Area and the United States of America.

A cold fact that apparently needs to be repeated ad infinitum since some people seem incapable of understanding it.

As for the Schengen Area, having been scrutinized by consular staff, once the visa is approved it will require some earth quake to entry be denied at the border. Something along the line that you cannot show the proof for stay anymore used when applying for the visa.

[max72]

I dont really understand why people get angry about that new rules.

The only reason might be, that people abusing re-entry visas for a permanent stay considered this procedure as a privilege.

They should ask themselves, what would happen to their country, if everybody from all neighboring and other nations could stay permanently by simply doing a visa-run every 30 days ?

In Schengen countries and even in Ukraine, where many visa runners come from, the 90 days in 180 days rule is used.

So what are double visas for ?

60+60 is 120, so if you want to use a double visa, are you breaking the law ?

So why double visas exist if they allow you to stay 120 days (and possibly 180 with two extentions) instead 90 ?

[cekipa]

Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas, how can you obtain a visa and then be denied entry to the country unless you fly into it?

Classic Thailand

Your question should be addressed also to Thai Consulates in Sungai Kolok: "why do you issue a visa which you know very well I will be refused the entry" ?

[RTH10260]

"Immigration officials then told the individuals that they would need to take a bus to Kuala Lumpur, the capital of Malaysia, and fly in to Thailand instead." Maybe the Immigration Officials at the airport are more lenient or they do not know the new rules

Why drive to KL for a costly airfare when Penang is so near? Scaring people away?

[leiftheswede]

Looks like there will be a lot of job openings in Thailand if this keeps up

Of cource lots of these back to back visa-runners do some kind of illegal work in Thailand but kicking them out does hardly mean that some Thais would get/be able to do their job. It will only mean that they will spend their money in other countrys - Thailands loss. For all those wanting to stay and spend their well earned money in Thailand (and cant get other visa) - well they just have to spend their money in another more welcoming country.

As always - Thailand wants farangs money but preferbly without the farang staying in Thailand.

[max72]

Refusing entry to all people with tourist visas, how can you obtain a visa and then be denied entry to the country unless you fly into it?

Classic Thailand

Your question should be addressed also to Thai Consulates in Sungai Kolok: "why do you issue a visa which you know very well I will be refused the entry" ?

The Visa fee ....farang money without farang .....

[phirho]

Disclaimer: I have no real skin in this game as I'm on a new non-O multi. I'm just curious.

Are you staying on back to back 90 day entries from a Multi visa? In this case it is clearly an abuse of the rules and not how this visa is intended to be used. If the crackdown continues, these visas may well become the next target after NON-EDs

How is a multi entry visa intended to be used? It's called a multiple entry visa so you can enter multiple times, is it not?

Yes you can enter multiple times. No, you are not supposed to stay for the duration of the visa via 90-day border runs. I'd guess the intended use is for those who visit the family multiple times in a year but do not primarily live in Thailand.

Simple analogy: you can enter Thailand multiple times on 30-day visa exempt stamps. It doesn't mean you can stay here indefinitely doing a border run every 30 days.

As of now, both of the above are technically in compliance with the Thai law, but the latter is starting to be cracked down upon. The former is still safe, but who knows for how long.

[larsjohnsson]

While many have posted on this and other topics that the current 'crackdown' will have a major impact on Thai Tourism arrivals/expenditures, the data from 2012 is that average length of stay for ALL arrivals to Thailand is about 10 days with those from Europe staying an average of about 16 days. Those 'tourists' who stay for months or years may have a negligible impact on the overall tourism scene.

(2012 Thai Dept. of Tourism numbers)

Yes and those tourists from Europe staying 16 days. They spend more in those 16 days than the average border runner do in 5 months.

[leiftheswede]

I dont really understand why people get angry about that new rules.

The only reason might be, that people abusing re-entry visas for a permanent stay considered this procedure as a privilege.

They should ask themselves, what would happen to their country, if everybody from all neighboring and other nations could stay permanently by simply doing a visa-run every 30 days ?

In Schengen countries and even in Ukraine, where many visa runners come from, the 90 days in 180 days rule is used.

So what are double visas for ?

60+60 is 120, so if you want to use a double visa, are you breaking the law ?

So why double visas exist if they allow you to stay 120 days (and possibly 180 with two extentions) instead 90 ?

Even if they do visa-runs every 30 day they still spend their money in Thailand - Obviously Thailand have enought money/taxes and dont need this income. If they use the same energi inforcing ALL business in Thailand to pay their taxes, they could probably pave the streets of Bangkok with pure gold.

[DrTuner]

Disclaimer: I have no real skin in this game as I'm on a new non-O multi. I'm just curious.

Are you staying on back to back 90 day entries from a Multi visa? In this case it is clearly an abuse of the rules and not how this visa is intended to be used. If the crackdown continues, these visas may well become the next target after NON-EDs

How is a multi entry visa intended to be used? It's called a multiple entry visa so you can enter multiple times, is it not?

Yes you can enter multiple times. No, you are not supposed to stay for the duration of the visa via 90-day border runs. I'd guess the intended use is for those who visit the family multiple times in a year but do not primarily live in Thailand.

Simple analogy: you can enter Thailand multiple times on 30-day visa exempt stamps. It doesn't mean you can stay here indefinitely doing a border run every 30 days.

As of now, both of the above are technically in compliance with the Thai law, but the latter is starting to be cracked down upon. The former is still safe, but who knows for how long.

A good example of those who visit the family multiple times and are a good example of the purpose of multi-entry visas are people who work outside Thailand, f.ex. the offshore workers.

Edited July 14, 2014 by DrTuner

[max72]

Lets face it, 60 days is more than adequate time for people to take holidays in any particular country and who knows how long these people have been hanging out in Thailand using the back door methods. The Thai authorities have been more than generous in the past and the times for turning a blind eye has to now cease and desist.

If these people are unable to meet the requirements as imposed by the Immigration Departments then they have no entitlements to be here. Either obtain the appropriate visas, go elsewhere or go home, these are the only options available to them as by law always has been and always will, only now the laws are being enforced, so it beats me how these can feel shocked or feel that are are receiving a mis-justice?

Westerners of little wealth, the illegal business owners, illegal workers, possibly those of the criminal elements and hasslers are not wanted in Thailand for the long term, otherwise the Thais would not have created these laws and now that these laws are at last being actively enforced we can expect to see a lot less undesirable foreigners in Thailand for the future, that in my opinion cannot be a bad thing.

Please list some of the laws these guys were breaking.

It can;t come to your mind that some people want to spend few months away from the harsh winter of Europe,Russia or Corea ?

Is too difficult to understand there are many wealthy people under 50 or many people who works only in summer months and than they like to stay in the tropics for the winter months ?

There are MILLIONS of people in this situation, including myself. I have never worked in Thailand, I don't need to work, fortunately I am AGES under 50, I have never broken any law in Thailand or anywhere else.

There are others who surely work on tourist visas, but not all of them.

It's WAY possible to spend several months a year on holidays.

"Millions" is obviously quite ridiculous hyperbole (and frankly casts doubt on your personal claims to wealth which - usually - derives from education).

That said anyone with any sense must surely understand that any Immigration Policy - regardless of the Country - can only be a "broad brush" approach. There will always be a few individuals whose personal circumstances do not qualify them for a Visa; however as already mentioned several times on this Thread there is the option of the Thai Elite Card and the associated Visa if you are really so wealthy .

Patrick

There are MILLIONS of people in this situation. It's not an hyperbole, it's reality. They are not all in Thailand, but spread allover tropical countries.

In Thailand there might be hundreds of thousands.

What I do with a Thai Elite Card if i just want to spend 3-4 months during winter time ?

Moreover, that card is valid today, but can be cancelled tomorrow with no refund.

It happened already with other Elite Cards in the past. Issued and than cancelled.

The inmigration officer said over 30 days you are not considered a tourist anymore.

So are the tourist visas a way to milk visa fees without allowing the hated farang to enter ?

If over 30 days you are not a tourist, they should abolish the tourist visas altogether. Period.

Edited July 14, 2014 by max72

[Phatcharanan]

i stop being suprised here years ago.... ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

But the issuance of a visa in no way guarantees entry to Thailand in any event. That is always the final decision of the immigration officials at point of entry...same as most countries.

I don't think anyone would be refused entry by flying in however.

[paz]

Moreover, that card is valid today, but can be cancelled tomorrow with no refund.

It happened already with other Elite Cards in the past. Issued and than cancelled.

In fairness, that never happened.

[Fairynuff]

I lived my first 10 years in Thailand doing 30 and 60 day visa runs.

Plan ahead and buy a cheap air ticket and you won't have any problems!

The land borders are a no no from now on.

[Fairynuff]

I lived my first 10 years in Thailand doing 30 and 60 day visa runs.

Plan ahead and buy a cheap air ticket and you won't have any problems!

The land borders are a no no from now on.

And when will the airports become a no no?

[leiftheswede]

While many have posted on this and other topics that the current 'crackdown' will have a major impact on Thai Tourism arrivals/expenditures, the data from 2012 is that average length of stay for ALL arrivals to Thailand is about 10 days with those from Europe staying an average of about 16 days. Those 'tourists' who stay for months or years may have a negligible impact on the overall tourism scene.

(2012 Thai Dept. of Tourism numbers)

Yes and those tourists from Europe staying 16 days. They spend more in those 16 days than the average border runner do in 5 months.

And the avarage border runner spend several times more then the avarage Thai national and usualy with money earned in an other country. Thailand will loose a lot of income if they want to have only "high end tourism".

[RTH10260]

"You are a tourist for 30 days, not more."

they mean business now, i hope it doesn't spread to the northern and eastern borders

Then a "60 Day Tourist Visa" is no longer issued? I would imagine that a more efficient way to limit "tourists" to 30 days, is to have all Thai Consulates/Embassies NOT issue any more 60 day tourist visas and let the ones already issued expire naturally!

If they don't do 60day visas anymore, they will lose a great deal of European tourists that have six weeks holidays to spend, many times with double or triple entry. Such used when eg going to Laos by Nongkai and back, as the 14day entry visa may not cover extra weeks in TH and no tourist will want to track down a local immigration office, queue up for hours to get an inland extension stamp.

[DrTuner]

I lived my first 10 years in Thailand doing 30 and 60 day visa runs.

Plan ahead and buy a cheap air ticket and you won't have any problems!

The land borders are a no no from now on.

And when will the airports become a no no?

The date quoted by immigration to start cracking down there as well is 12th of August.

[max72]

Moreover, that card is valid today, but can be cancelled tomorrow with no refund.

It happened already with other Elite Cards in the past. Issued and than cancelled.

In fairness, that never happened.

No ? Do you remember the 2 million elite card issued during Thaksin government and than cancelled ?

[Tycoon]

I come to Thailand every winter for 6 months from the UK for the last 10 years.I had non "O" 2times when it was easier and now use triple tourist visas.I work offshore so i can go away for 6 months and get away from the winter and have plenty of cash to spend in LOS.

I have used extensions a few times to stay extra months also.I will apply for the same visa this time when i come.I have 2 used triple visas in my newish passport with 1 extension.I use the Ranong crossing as it is near the island i stay at.

I understand the reason they are cracking down on 30 day exempt,but on the same hand border runners are not breaking any laws in that respect.If it was illegal it would not be allowed,but it is not illegal.

If i stay 2 months and do a run for the 2nd and 3rd entry and return on the same day that is also not illegal as the visa allows it.If i want to extend it for 30 more days that is also not illegal as they allow it and inform us on their consulate sites that it is ok to do that.

There seems to be no consistency in their administry of the new rules.They should limit the multiple exempt to just one 30 day entry.They should ask for more evidence of funds when issuing the tourist visa in our home countries,or only issue single entry 60 day visas and not allow another until 30-60 days after it has expired.Plenty of people who work in their own country often go away for the winter months to be in a better climate to relax and have fun.Not everyone is in LOS to work illegally or stay illegally.

All i ask is for the rules to be consistent and clear so we can all abide by the rules.

Not so much to ask is it?

100% understand you but effectively your living half you life in Thailand and not a tourist as such.

Easy fixed, get legal

[max72]

While many have posted on this and other topics that the current 'crackdown' will have a major impact on Thai Tourism arrivals/expenditures, the data from 2012 is that average length of stay for ALL arrivals to Thailand is about 10 days with those from Europe staying an average of about 16 days. Those 'tourists' who stay for months or years may have a negligible impact on the overall tourism scene.

(2012 Thai Dept. of Tourism numbers)

Yes and those tourists from Europe staying 16 days. They spend more in those 16 days than the average border runner do in 5 months.

And the avarage border runner spend several times more then the avarage Thai national and usualy with money earned in an other country. Thailand will loose a lot of income if they want to have only "high end tourism".

Not all border runners are bums.

I know guys who are spending 10000 baht a day in partying and never did anything wrong.

[AYJAYDEE]

were they just stopping folks with a history of extensions and/or back to back tourist visas? If so, I dont understand this line: "A reporter from Thaivisa.com was present when the foreigners attempted to cross the border and can confirm that Sungai Kolok Immigration officials were refusing entry on Sunday to all holders of Tourist visas.