Will the crackdown on Tourist Visas render other visa classes unworkable?

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Every single expat I know in Thailand, including myself, has used a Tourist visa as the "patch" while fixing the paperwork for other non immigrant visa classes.

Here are some relevant examples:

1. Waiting for the paperwork to arrive from employer to apply for a non B visa....only available solution...tourist visa run

2. Waiting for the paperwork to be processed to start a business...only available solution...tourist visa run

3. Need to open bank account and wait out the seasoning period for 800K for a retirement visa...only available solution...tourist visa run

4. Need to open bank account and wait out period for seasoning for 400K for a spouse visa...only available solution...tourist visa run

5. Need to select a school and process paperwork for ED visa...only available solution...tourist visa run

6. Want to open bank accounts to invest 10 million to qualiy for investment visa and have application process...only available solution...tourist visa run

It would seem that with the imposition of only a single in/out stamp all of the other Thai visa classes will be rendered entirely unworkable.

Perhaps that is the ACTUAL intention?

[4evermaat]

I'm sure ubonjoe will respond in kind, but the spouse 1 year extension, you can get a 60 day extension with much less requirements. Then after 60 day extension, you have 2 month seasoning which you can then apply for the 1 year extension.

Threads that post some slight change in the visa process get the 50 pages in under 48 hours; mostly overreactions and assumptions. We still need to see how the new rules will be enforced over time. The intent of the [new] rules seems to be to prevent abuse of using an incorrect category of visa and especially the Out-In visa exempt. Statutorily speaking for the longer term visas/extensions, you either need to be married or have family, retired, have a legit business, or participate in approved educational activities (i could be missing a category). I don't think thai immigration are asking too much, except maybe in the paperwork dept sometimes.

[Jingthing]

I totally agree this is a SERIOUS problem. I don't think people are overreacting. I know when I was getting set up in Thailand it was basically NECESSARY to play the tourist visa/30 day stamp thing for quite some time. Then there are transition periods, where you need time to settle matters here, if you're leaving. There are multiple totally innocent scenarios where legit long term people really need transition periods and the tourist visas/30 day stamps have been ESSENTIAL.

[Living in a cartoon]

Nope, not me. Never did any of the things in the OP,

Believe it or not, this is not a serious problem. It is certainly not a SERIOUS problem.

No laws have been changed either. But there is a new sheriff in town,

His name is not Barney Fife.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I totally agree this is a SERIOUS problem. I don't think people are overreacting. I know when I was getting set up in Thailand it was basically NECESSARY to play the tourist visa/30 day stamp thing for quite some time. Then there are transition periods, where you need time to settle matters here, if you're leaving. There are multiple totally innocent scenarios where legit long term people really need transition periods and the tourist visas/30 day stamps have been ESSENTIAL.

I'm with you JT. I am not scaremongering. I do not see how the other visa classes can function when In/outs are limited to one per person AND entry on a valid and legally obtained tourist visa may also be refused.

Everyone uses the tourist visa as a patch. Everyone. Because the current system is so hopelessly innefficient.

And thanks for pointing out that the Tourist visa patch is also used when transitioning OUT of Thailand. I only thought about those coming in. Of course many use the Tourist visa to come back to settle on a property sale. However, that may not now be possible. Heavens knows what is going to happen to those properties and other assets such as cars, motorbikes, share, mutual funds, physical gold...etc.

And leaving the talk of assets to one side...what of the families that are going to be ripped apart?

[MJP]

It's a bother. I was using the 6 month tourist visa to see the kids rather than keep going down the Non-'O' parental route. It was handy.

I only go there to do the shopping, mend the kids' house and pay the school fees!

[slipperylobster]

Certainly an inconvenience, but most people who qualify for the marriage/retirement options will adjust.

It is like somebody just flushed the toilet after years of looking the other way. There will be some floaters that manage to hang on, but for many, it will be a trip down the drain.

I am kicking myself in the behind for always taking the easy way out....a quick run/tourist visa and then a month out of Thailand. I am converting to a non 0 90 day and then a retirement extension. That is the right way for me. I just need to do my second entry (flying in).

Only heard one case of an individual who had many trips to Thailand and got turned back at the Airport. (Most fly out, using the airport as a transit point only). He owned a condo, and perhaps immigration got wind of it. I am staying in an Apartelle for a month.. He flew in asking for a visa exempt....I have a valid double entry and am flying in on the second entry after a few days out.

Hopefully no problem.

[DP25]

Certainly an inconvenience, but most people who qualify for the marriage/retirement options will adjust.

Not like anyone in the future will be allowed to stay long enough to get married or decide to retire here anyway. Which might be the point.

Anyway many of us are not married, or even close to retirement age. I've been on non B plus work permit for years, but at times I've been forced to use a tourist visa. It's terrifying to think I could go get a tourist visa to cover a change in employment while paperwork is being processed, and then be denied entry.

[TaoNow]

I don't think that the "actual intention" of Immigration is to make the other visa classes unworkable.

That would mean, in effect, eliminating long-term, non-Thai residents. There are easier ways to do that if it were their policy.

Instead, as per their public statements, the crack-down is to reduce those working illegally in Thailand.

Unfortunately, some like "Bald Eagle" this morning are getting caught in the drag net. His situation, and those of other oil rig type workers who get frequent R&R but live in remote areas without access to Thai consulates/embassies, fall into a grey area, whose only viable option is the visa-exempt entry.

Clearly they are not the target of the crack-down but have occupations and lifestyles which allow frequent vacations during the year. And they choose to come here.

As one poster noted (on the other thread) it seems like Immo is also trying to discourage those single, non-retired exp-pats who want to use Thailand as a base or secondary residence for limited periods of the year.

That's not explicitly stated in the policy but it could be a de facto effect of enforcement. Stay tuned...

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Certainly an inconvenience, but most people who qualify for the marriage/retirement options will adjust.

Not like anyone in the future will be allowed to stay long enough to get married or decide to retire here anyway. Which might be the point.

Anyway many of us are not married, or even close to retirement age. I've been on non B plus work permit for years, but at times I've been forced to use a tourist visa. It's terrifying to think I could go get a tourist visa to cover a change in employment while paperwork is being processed, and then be denied entry.

Yep.

Another good example is Simon45. He has two hotels and no doubt lots of other assets here in Phuket. But recently he was shifting jobs and visa classes and used a Tourist visa in/out to patch the gap while he waited for his Non B paperwork to be approved/supplied.

The one in/out Tourist visa only is just unworkable, and so are all of the other visa classes if this new rule is left in place.

[borisr]

Can somebody explain how investment visa works? My understanding that buying real estate (e.g. condo) does not qualify... IMHO what is going on right now is not a result of any kind of thought through deliberate policy. This is what is happening when a small group of people gets absolute power and start making arbitrary decisions without any checks and balances. I wonder whether retirees and other long-term residents are safe... And I would definitely not go along the elite card path...

[Water Buffalo]

It could be a serious problem.

[MANICMINER]

There is another thread about teachers in a similar position. Some were refused entry and ended up going home. I think it will depend on how previous entries you have had.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

There is another thread about teachers in a similar position. Some were refused entry and ended up going home. I think it will depend on how previous entries you have had.

Immigration has already issued a directive on that: It is ONE previous in/out.

[borisr]

There is another thread about teachers in a similar position. Some were refused entry and ended up going home. I think it will depend on how previous entries you have had.

Immigration has already issued a directive on that: It is ONE previous in/out.

Can you elaborate? Does it mean that if I have visited Thailand once before, I cannot enter again? I believe the previous policy would not allow staying more than two months out of consecutive six or something like that.

Edited July 17, 2014 by borisr

[ubonjoe]

What do you mean by tourist visa? I suspect you are writing about a visa exempt entry not got getting a tourist visa or even entering on one.

Anybody traveling here in any of the situations mentioned should of gotten at tourist visa before arriving here. A 2 entry tourist visa would give almost 6 months to get things sorted out.

A person wanting an extension based upon retirement does not have to wait the 60 days for the money in the bank. They can apply for a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa entry with money only needing to be in the bank there is no 60 days needed for this. A person 50 or over can also go out for a single entry non-o visa at a nearby embassy or consulate. Some may want to see the money in the bank or an income letter.

A person married to Thai also has the choice of getting a change of visa status at Bangkok immigration. The can get a single entry non-o visa at any nearby embassy or consulate.

For a person seeking a an extension of stay based upon investment can do a change of visa status as soon as the 10 million baht is in the bank.. Then buy their condo, move the money into fixed term accounts bonds and etc. The apply for the one year extension 60 days after doing the change.

If starting a job the wait can easily be covered by a 60 tourist visa entry.

Your complaints are for all intents and purposes are baseless. Proper planning eliminates all of them.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

What do you mean by tourist visa? I suspect you are writing about a visa exempt entry not got getting a tourist visa or even entering on one.

Anybody traveling here in any of the situations mentioned should of gotten at tourist visa before arriving here. A 2 entry tourist visa would give almost 6 months to get things sorted out.

A person wanting an extension based upon retirement does not have to wait the 60 days for the money in the bank. They can apply for a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa entry with money only needing to be in the bank there is no 60 days needed for this. A person 50 or over can also go out for a single entry non-o visa at a nearby embassy or consulate. Some may want to see the money in the bank or an income letter.

A person married to Thai also has the choice of getting a change of visa status at Bangkok immigration. The can get a single entry non-o visa at any nearby embassy or consulate.

For a person seeking a an extension of stay based upon investment can do a change of visa status as soon as the 10 million baht is in the bank.. Then buy their condo, move the money into fixed term accounts bonds and etc. The apply for the one year extension 60 days after doing the change.

If starting a job the wait can easily be covered by a 60 tourist visa entry.

Your complaints are for all intents and purposes are baseless. Proper planning eliminates all of them.

Simon 45 appears to me as someone with impeccable planning. He recently had to rely on an in/out to Penang. And now he has used up his one available in/out what lies ahead for him, if he moves off his current B visa?

[ubonjoe]

There is another thread about teachers in a similar position. Some were refused entry and ended up going home. I think it will depend on how previous entries you have had.

Immigration has already issued a directive on that: It is ONE previous in/out.

Again you are writing about visa exempt entries not tourist visas.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Bottom line is it sounds like folks need to make plans before coming if they intend to stay here a long time. Everyone wants crackdowns and enforcement of laws ... except when it comes to those which bother them.

[ubonjoe]

What do you mean by tourist visa? I suspect you are writing about a visa exempt entry not got getting a tourist visa or even entering on one.

Anybody traveling here in any of the situations mentioned should of gotten at tourist visa before arriving here. A 2 entry tourist visa would give almost 6 months to get things sorted out.

A person wanting an extension based upon retirement does not have to wait the 60 days for the money in the bank. They can apply for a change of visa status to get a 90 day non immigrant visa entry with money only needing to be in the bank there is no 60 days needed for this. A person 50 or over can also go out for a single entry non-o visa at a nearby embassy or consulate. Some may want to see the money in the bank or an income letter.

A person married to Thai also has the choice of getting a change of visa status at Bangkok immigration. The can get a single entry non-o visa at any nearby embassy or consulate.

For a person seeking a an extension of stay based upon investment can do a change of visa status as soon as the 10 million baht is in the bank.. Then buy their condo, move the money into fixed term accounts bonds and etc. The apply for the one year extension 60 days after doing the change.

If starting a job the wait can easily be covered by a 60 tourist visa entry.

Your complaints are for all intents and purposes are baseless. Proper planning eliminates all of them.

Simon 45 appears to me as someone with impeccable planning. He recently had to rely on an in/out to Penang. And now he has used up his one available in/out what lies ahead for him, if he moves off his current B visa?

He is now is on a 90 day non-ed visa entry attending a Chinese language classes. He just asked bout getting an extension recently. I can remember posts from him going back several years.

[ColdSingha]

Unfortunately, some like "Bald Eagle" this morning are getting caught in the drag net. His situation, and those of other oil rig type workers who get frequent R&R but live in remote areas without access to Thai consulates/embassies, fall into a grey area, whose only viable option is the visa-exempt entry.

Clearly they are not the target of the crack-down but have occupations and lifestyles which allow frequent vacations during the year. And they choose to come here.

i feel for them really because on the one hand it appears they are spending frequent holidays here but on the other, they appear to be living here full time and working offshore

right now that's one hell of a grey area to leave in the hands of an immigration official

Edited July 17, 2014 by ColdSingha

[62strat]

I came on a dual entry tourist visa from the US, intending to take the time to get married to my girlfriend and get everything ready for a marriage visa.I was denied the 2nd part of the 'dual' entry at Mesai border getting instead a 15 day stamp (that gave me a in/out stamp) then had too little time to get everything together, so had to go to Loas to get a tourist visa..then back again to get my type 'O'... my advance planning all would have worked fine, except the border immigration control can do as they please and you have no recourse ... it worked out for me although I did end up with an in/out which would now be a problem inder the new strict enforcement. Proper planning assumes you know what rules will be applied to you.Currently some have been penalised for previous in/out visa runs (which were fine and legal) and denied entry after getting a proper tourist visa, something no one here would have predicted.

[Balance]

For many of the issues listed by Bulldozer Dawn, a 90 Business visa can be used. I came into Thailand on a Business visa with the intention of getting a non-O retirement visa. The same could be used for almost anything requiring a waiting period. But, I think that you have to get the visa outside of Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

I came on a dual entry tourist visa from the US, intending to take the time to get married to my girlfriend and get everything ready for a marriage visa.I was denied the 2nd part of the 'dual' entry at Mesai border getting instead a 15 day stamp (that gave me a in/out stamp) then had too little time to get everything together, so had to go to Loas to get a tourist visa..then back again to get my type 'O'... my advance planning all would have worked fine, except the border immigration control can do as they please and you have no recourse ... it worked out for me although I did end up with an in/out which would now be a problem inder the new strict enforcement. Proper planning assumes you know what rules will be applied to you.Currently some have been penalised for previous in/out visa runs (which were fine and legal) and denied entry after getting a proper tourist visa, something no one here would have predicted.

Why were you denied an entry on your tourist visa and given a visa a 15 day visa exempt entry instead.. I suspect your visa had expired.

[Benmart]

I totally agree this is a SERIOUS problem. I don't think people are overreacting. I know when I was getting set up in Thailand it was basically NECESSARY to play the tourist visa/30 day stamp thing for quite some time. Then there are transition periods, where you need time to settle matters here, if you're leaving. There are multiple totally innocent scenarios where legit long term people really need transition periods and the tourist visas/30 day stamps have been ESSENTIAL.

I'm with you JT. I am not scaremongering. I do not see how the other visa classes can function when In/outs are limited to one per person AND entry on a valid and legally obtained tourist visa may also be refused.

Everyone uses the tourist visa as a patch. Everyone. Because the current system is so hopelessly innefficient.

And thanks for pointing out that the Tourist visa patch is also used when transitioning OUT of Thailand. I only thought about those coming in. Of course many use the Tourist visa to come back to settle on a property sale. However, that may not now be possible. Heavens knows what is going to happen to those properties and other assets such as cars, motorbikes, share, mutual funds, physical gold...etc.

And leaving the talk of assets to one side...what of the families that are going to be ripped apart?

Everyone? I haven't.

[glasswort]

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I totally agree this is a SERIOUS problem. I don't think people are overreacting. I know when I was getting set up in Thailand it was basically NECESSARY to play the tourist visa/30 day stamp thing for quite some time. Then there are transition periods, where you need time to settle matters here, if you're leaving. There are multiple totally innocent scenarios where legit long term people really need transition periods and the tourist visas/30 day stamps have been ESSENTIAL.

I'm with you JT. I am not scaremongering. I do not see how the other visa classes can function when In/outs are limited to one per person AND entry on a valid and legally obtained tourist visa may also be refused.

Everyone uses the tourist visa as a patch. Everyone. Because the current system is so hopelessly innefficient.

And thanks for pointing out that the Tourist visa patch is also used when transitioning OUT of Thailand. I only thought about those coming in. Of course many use the Tourist visa to come back to settle on a property sale. However, that may not now be possible. Heavens knows what is going to happen to those properties and other assets such as cars, motorbikes, share, mutual funds, physical gold...etc.

And leaving the talk of assets to one side...what of the families that are going to be ripped apart?

Everyone? I haven't.

Me neither and anyone who goes to the extent of buying property etc. and relying on tourist visas frankly need their heads examining.

[stgrhe]

Nope, not me. Never did any of the things in the OP,

Believe it or not, this is not a serious problem. It is certainly not a SERIOUS problem.

No laws have been changed either. But there is a new sheriff in town,

His name is not Barney Fife.

Nor have I. Most people I know got their Non-Immigrant Visas before establishing themselves in Thailand.

[Pattaya Pat]

I totally agree this is a SERIOUS problem. I don't think people are overreacting. I know when I was getting set up in Thailand it was basically NECESSARY to play the tourist visa/30 day stamp thing for quite some time. Then there are transition periods, where you need time to settle matters here, if you're leaving. There are multiple totally innocent scenarios where legit long term people really need transition periods and the tourist visas/30 day stamps have been ESSENTIAL.

I'm with you JT. I am not scaremongering. I do not see how the other visa classes can function when In/outs are limited to one per person AND entry on a valid and legally obtained tourist visa may also be refused.

Everyone uses the tourist visa as a patch. Everyone. Because the current system is so hopelessly innefficient.

And thanks for pointing out that the Tourist visa patch is also used when transitioning OUT of Thailand. I only thought about those coming in. Of course many use the Tourist visa to come back to settle on a property sale. However, that may not now be possible. Heavens knows what is going to happen to those properties and other assets such as cars, motorbikes, share, mutual funds, physical gold...etc.

And leaving the talk of assets to one side...what of the families that are going to be ripped apart?

Everyone? I haven't.

families are going to be 'ripped apart'?

I think I shoud stay away from here for a bit, it is all getting rather hysterical.

[the happy camper]

Thailand has been kind enough to enable tourists to enjoy their country for reasonable periods of time,

without onerous amounts of paperwork. The US is not nearly as generous.

Perhaps the media could assist by printing the current rules,

as enforced, instead of the dramatic human interest stories.

It would be beneficial to see the rules and regulations for all visa clases, in a concise and accurate form.

[Pattaya Pat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I totally agree this is a SERIOUS problem. I don't think people are overreacting. I know when I was getting set up in Thailand it was basically NECESSARY to play the tourist visa/30 day stamp thing for quite some time. Then there are transition periods, where you need time to settle matters here, if you're leaving. There are multiple totally innocent scenarios where legit long term people really need transition periods and the tourist visas/30 day stamps have been ESSENTIAL.

I'm with you JT. I am not scaremongering. I do not see how the other visa classes can function when In/outs are limited to one per person AND entry on a valid and legally obtained tourist visa may also be refused.

Everyone uses the tourist visa as a patch. Everyone. Because the current system is so hopelessly innefficient.

And thanks for pointing out that the Tourist visa patch is also used when transitioning OUT of Thailand. I only thought about those coming in. Of course many use the Tourist visa to come back to settle on a property sale. However, that may not now be possible. Heavens knows what is going to happen to those properties and other assets such as cars, motorbikes, share, mutual funds, physical gold...etc.

And leaving the talk of assets to one side...what of the families that are going to be ripped apart?

Everyone? I haven't.

Me neither and anyone who goes to the extent of buying property etc. and relying on tourist visas frankly need their heads examining.

Oh I see, so only people living here permanantly or on non immigrant visas should have bought a condo. Have you ever heard the term 'holiday home'? Let me educate you, it's when you have an alternative home in another country outside of your own that you may inhabit 2 or 3 tiimes a year. It's always been fairly popluar for those that can afford it and like that particular type of lifestyle, it goes on all over the world, believe it or not.

Buying a condo in a country where you don't live? OMG, yes, utter madness,they certainly need their heads examining!

Oh, and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Pattaya Pat