MH17: Malaysia Airlines Plane Shot Down Near Ukraine Border

[Chicog]

I don't see anyone blaming MH for this tragedy, but it is incredibly bad luck considering what they've gone through recently.

My guess is the Russians are already hard at work sanitising the crime scene, and possibly doing what they can to implicate the Ukrainians.

No doubt American satellites are recording it all.

[kingalfred]

Putin has stated that the country over which any such incident occurs is responsible for the incident itself.

Really? That makes Scotland responsible for Lockerbie!

Ukraine+rebels+former foreign russian commanders+ backed by the Oligarch President. Time to back opposition groups in Russia to oust Putin . He can join his buddy the mass murderer Assad in Syria.

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Edited July 18, 2014 by kingalfred

[kingalfred]

The big question is how tough the USA and EU are going to get with Putins Russia. Weasel France and Germany didnt want any REAL tough sanctions after Crimea. This is a much bigger event.

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Edited July 18, 2014 by kingalfred

[dexterm]

Very clearly stupidity. Pink line (attached) is the shortest route possible between Amsterdam and Kuala Lumpur. Shot down just south of it ....... Who flies over a crisis zone with low level army grunts armed with air to ground missiles ? must save fuel, must save fuel, must save fuel. .....

Absolutely preventable. MAS management obviously has a "tidak apa" attitude ( she'll be right )

RIP

Screenshot 2014-07-17 23.29.05.png

>>Who flies over a crisis zone with low level army grunts armed with air to ground missiles ?

..most major European airlines...Lufthansa, BA, KLM, Finnair...until today that is.

[Choonpon]

Cold blood murder! RIP Souls of MH17

[Tao Diver]

This is what happens when you give fanatical idiots access to sophisticated modern weaponry. Trained military personnel would have first ensured that the target was a Russian military plane and as such a legitimate target. Why was no warning given or an attempt to communicate with the target before firing ? A very sad day indeed.

I would imagine at that hight it would all be over very quickly. Lets hope so

[khwaibah]

"Australia PM: Ukraine crash less like accident than crime"

Not a crime ? Whats he been smoking..??

Should be asked what you're smoking if that is what your read in the title.

It is but the again this is what ones expect from any and all politicians. Double talk.

[rebeli]

What the hell was it doing flying over the Ukraine

Malaysia air is in big trouble flying over a no g zone.

I believe the flight path was approved, and was not forbidden.

That is being changed.

There was an urgent advisory that went out from the Brits to avoid the area but only an advisory that most took notice of. Alas flying the most direct route saves money on fuel so it was obviously ignored.

Sky news also interestingly named Thai airways as also using that flight path, which I think will now change.

Flying over saves fuel

tg923 is currently flying over Afganistan at 35000 ft. as is EVA61. SIA334 has just overflown Iran QF2 is overflying Iraq. Should all conflict zones be avoided?

YES

Conflict zones where one of the parties has surface to air missiles should be avoided.

[slipperylobster]

I am flying with MAS in a few weeks time.

Avoid the same flight path mentioned here, at all costs.

Good luck.

[Asiantravel]

Putin has stated that the country over which any such incident occurs is responsible for the incident itself.

Really? That makes Scotland responsible for Lockerbie!

Ukraine+rebels+former foreign russian commanders+ backed by the Oligarch President. Time to back opposition groups in Russia to oust Putin . He can join his buddy the mass murderer Assad in Syria.

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Unlike say the N.T.S.B, I'd be willing to bet the Russians release the full audio, and transcripts of all the data, the West better be worried about that.

[Chicog]

MH17 CRASH

Difficult to identify aircraft in hostile airspace

Akil Yunus

The Star

It is difficult for militant groups to determine if an aircraft flying over hostile airspace is of a civilian or military nature.

Ahmad Salman Abdul Rahim, one of the Malaysian jihadists fighting in Syria, said civilians were at great risk as militant groups did not possess the radar equipment and technology to ascertain if an air target was ’friend or foe’.

At 33,000 feet? If you are shooting down aircraft at that height it is almost guaranteed to be commercial traffic.

Mind you jihadists are by nature complete idiots.

[chubby]

fog of war, even if it was russian in east ukraine, which seems likely, or untrained "rebels", at least the horrors of war, are less hidden. the news cycle will turn over, and sadly like the kidnapped girls, it's on to the next news cycle.

if the US/EU do find out it was Regular Russian Army, it may be surpressed, I don't think a black box is going to show anything important, like who has SA-18s and was manning them at the time, they rocket came from the rebels or russia, and rebels don't have SA-18s, so maybe russia should get them back in USSR soil ... for now.

[Chicog]

Putin has stated that the country over which any such incident occurs is responsible for the incident itself.

Really? That makes Scotland responsible for Lockerbie!

Ukraine+rebels+former foreign russian commanders+ backed by the Oligarch President. Time to back opposition groups in Russia to oust Putin . He can join his buddy the mass murderer Assad in Syria.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Unlike say the N.T.S.B, I'd be willing to bet the Russians release the full audio, and transcripts of all the data, the West better be worried about that.

Why?

[Mosha]

Some airlines who claim to have been avoiding the area for months, are not being entirely honest.

http://www.cityam.com/sites/default/files/styles/node_article_blog_main_image_scale_w400/public/main/blogposts/FlightradarMH17.jpg?itok=4tDA0ZPj

Edited July 18, 2014 by Mosha

[Chicog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZJnD1wgofYM

[bkkjames]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZJnD1wgofYM

well if true ---- pretty compelling stuff.

[GentlemanJim]

I don't see anyone blaming MH for this tragedy, but it is incredibly bad luck considering what they've gone through recently.

My guess is the Russians are already hard at work sanitising the crime scene, and possibly doing what they can to implicate the Ukrainians.

No doubt American satellites are recording it all.

Well to be fair, if we are talking about the thread, skippybangkok is trying to blame MH and I just don't understand it.

Can everyone be really clear on one point, this was NOTHING to do with MH or negligence on their part. I just do not know how the MH staff are holding themselves together at the moment. Two International incidents both under extremely suspicious circumstances in a matter of months of each other. I truly hope the board can come up with a way of motivating the staff to continue.

This is a complete tragedy as all aircraft accidents are, but again let's make it clear, this was not an accident. I have no idea yet of the exact circumstances but the aircraft was in airspace it was permitted to be in and many other aircraft had already been in. The aircraft would have been squawking the correct codes with it's transponder to display it was a civilian airliner and exactly who it was. After MH 370, i really do not want to hear that the aircrafts transponder was mysteriously switched off. It will be very interesting to hear further information from the 'foreign air traffic controllers' who were removed from their desks just before the incident. If I were them I would be out of Ukraine already!

Putin is a gangster, but I am sure of one thing, he is not stupid. I really hope that the Russians will reveal all the data from the FDR. Prior to the explosion the FDR could tell us if any military aircraft intercepted/escorted it, it would also tell us if any critical systems were tampered with on the minutes leading up to the explosion. Of all the airlines in the world I find it staggering that this incident involved MH. I tend to agree with the Oz PM, this is not an accident it is a crime and I pray for all the victims, their families and the MH staff that the truth comes out very quickly.

[skippybangkok]

Don't see alot of well know airlines passing this area. Only one i see i SIA ( Singapore Airlines ) which has a death wish.

As i said, you would not catch me down town BKK during the protests with hand grenades being loped. if you go there, its because there is not choice, and you have to take the risk.

Seems all the planes to the east were avoiding Ukraine airspace.... take a look

Again - flight planning and the captain Malaysian has alot to answer for.

Why take the risk

Edited July 18, 2014 by skippybangkok

[bkkjames]

I don't see anyone blaming MH for this tragedy, but it is incredibly bad luck considering what they've gone through recently.

My guess is the Russians are already hard at work sanitising the crime scene, and possibly doing what they can to implicate the Ukrainians.

No doubt American satellites are recording it all.

Well to be fair, if we are talking about the thread, skippybangkok is trying to blame MH and I just don't understand it.

Can everyone be really clear on one point, this was NOTHING to do with MH or negligence on their part. I just do not know how the MH staff are holding themselves together at the moment. Two International incidents both under extremely suspicious circumstances in a matter of months of each other. I truly hope the board can come up with a way of motivating the staff to continue.

This is a complete tragedy as all aircraft accidents are, but again let's make it clear, this was not an accident. I have no idea yet of the exact circumstances but the aircraft was in airspace it was permitted to be in and many other aircraft had already been in. The aircraft would have been squawking the correct codes with it's transponder to display it was a civilian airliner and exactly who it was. After MH 370, i really do not want to hear that the aircrafts transponder was mysteriously switched off. It will be very interesting to hear further information from the 'foreign air traffic controllers' who were removed from their desks just before the incident. If I were them I would be out of Ukraine already!

Putin is a gangster, but I am sure of one thing, he is not stupid. I really hope that the Russians will reveal all the data from the FDR. Prior to the explosion the FDR could tell us if any military aircraft intercepted/escorted it, it would also tell us if any critical systems were tampered with on the minutes leading up to the explosion. Of all the airlines in the world I find it staggering that this incident involved MH. I tend to agree with the Oz PM, this is not an accident it is a crime and I pray for all the victims, their families and the MH staff that the truth comes out very quickly.

its pretty clear from what has been reported this flight was not anywhere near it's previous 10 conterparts of the same call sign were - it was 160 kms off course

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-plane-crash-flight-3877002

Edited July 18, 2014 by bkkjames

[Mosha]

Don't see alot of well know airlines passing this area. Only one i see i SIA ( Singapore Airlines ) which has a death wish.

As i said, you would not catch me down town BKK during the protests with hand grenades being loped. if you go there, its because there is not choice, and you have to take the risk.

Seems all the planes to the east were avoiding Ukraine airspace.... take a look

Again - flight planning and the captain Malaysian has alot to answer for.

Why take the risk

BswajgMCAAAsJYw.png-large.png

I just saw a Turkish Airlines on Flightradar24 over Ukraine. Finnair admitted they still did up to yesterday.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Mosha

[craigt3365]

The next member who posts an unsubstantiated rumor or conspiracy post will receive a posting holiday. Show some respect. The pictures on TV of people at the airports showing up to find out about their relatives is heart breaking.

There have been enough warnings given in this thread by various mods. No more will be given before action is taken.

[Triglav]

Ukrainian military has publically denied that separatists have working S300 or Buk systems (the only things capable of downing aircraft at that altitude) right after the crash.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ru&sl=uk&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pravda.com.ua%2Fnews%2F2014%2F07%2F18%2F7032278%2F (NB: google mistranslates article title by skipping "not" from the original)

Watch out for Timoshenko & Avakov capitalizing on this event to topple Poroshenko.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Triglav

[dutchisaan]

This was just posted by the BBC on tthere Twitter account.

Nationalities of flight MH17.

173 from The Netherlands.

43 from Maliasia.

27 from Australia.

12 from Indonesia.

9 from the Uk.

4 from Germany.

4 from Belgium.

3 from the philiphinnes.

1 from Canada.

1 from New Zealand.

20 are still unknown, officially. The French government told the international media that there where 4 French citizen on this flight. This interview was given a few hours after the incident and so far I couldn't find a link anywhere that says this is thrue.

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[Payboy]

The big question is how tough the USA and EU are going to get with Putins Russia. Weasel France and Germany didnt want any REAL tough sanctions after Crimea. This is a much bigger event.

Dunno about the US and EU, but Ban Ki Moon is gonna give a strong speech.

[Chicog]

I won't post it, but there is a heartbreaking video on Liveleak showing the aftermath.

Just a bunch of people going on their holidays, visiting their families, going to work.

And no-one will really be made to pay.

Best case scenario is that they force the government ultimately responsible to make reparations.

And there will be some meaningless "apology" that tries to pin the blame on someone else.

[dutchisaan]

There is a condolence register for flight MH17

http://www.condoleance.nl/14875/slachtoffers-vlucht-kl4103-mh017-naar-kuala-lumpur.html

The site is in Dutch, but you can use google translate if you need.

It will be nice if members from this form will sign it.

Thank you in advance.

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[Pattszero]

MH17 CRASH

Difficult to identify aircraft in hostile airspace

Akil Yunus

The Star

It is difficult for militant groups to determine if an aircraft flying over hostile airspace is of a civilian or military nature.

Ahmad Salman Abdul Rahim, one of the Malaysian jihadists fighting in Syria, said civilians were at great risk as militant groups did not possess the radar equipment and technology to ascertain if an air target was ’friend or foe’.

At 33,000 feet? If you are shooting down aircraft at that height it is almost guaranteed to be commercial traffic.

Mind you jihadists are by nature complete idiots.

I've flown in several military aircraft at 33,000 feet - hey, I've even flown chartered commercial jets full of fellow uniformed soldiers at - get this - 33,000 feet. A full regimental movement.

Anyway - the best that can possibly be made of this would be if someone put their hands up and said - "our mistake."

I sincerely hope it was a genuine mistake.

The thought of anyone targeting a civilian jet is beyond appalling.

[forumuser10]

This is just so sad, and so soon after. MH370. I very much doubt MAS will survive this disaster. Thoughts go out to the relatives who have lost their loved ones.

Maybe I'm a weirdo but I would seek out a flight with this company now as an act of solidarity.

MH370 is a mystery of our times.

If this aircraft was shot down, we should offer all support to Malaysian Airlines.

To be honest there is nothing wrong with MAS, but Asians in particular are very superstitious. Might be wrong, but a lot of people will think they are jinxed.

All in all though another tragedy.

"Asians" are superstitios, talk about painting broad strokes, what a bunch of crap

[metisdead]

A nonsense post has been removed.

[breaker]

I have seen video, that was made by local people in Donetsk. Ordinary local people has seen plane crash and they was very happy to see this crash (in this video man speaks in Russian language "Oh, everybody rejoice"), because they was wrongly thought that rebels shot airplane of Ukrainian airforce, they not understood that this was passenger airplane (It seems that local people support Donetsk rebels in war with Ukraine). Currently, account of the uploader of that video was terminated on YouTube, but there is other copies of that video.

Origingal video: https://www.you tube.com/watch?v=kHYiHGhWJXk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hByflqd5rgI

Also, I has read twitter account of Donetsk rebels. In the post from 29 june 2014 they announced that they seized selfpropelled anti-aircraft missiles "Buk" and currently SAM regiment "ПВО А1402" is under their control. Currently, they was deleted this post, but there is remained cache in google: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:NF6E5FCKFNEJ:https://twitter.com/dnrpress/status/483248037629018112

Also, I has read VK account of Donetsk rebels (http://vk.com/strelkov_info). Yesterday, 17.07.2014, 17:50 (Moscow time) they proclaimed that they shot down Ukrainian airplane (but this was plane of Malaysian Airlines). They said that it is prohibited to fly in their sky. Original post was removed (http://vk.com/wall-57424472_7256), but there is remained cache in google (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256&oq=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58.5056j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8).

So, I'm pretty sure, it's a work of Donetsk rebels. Because they confirmed that they have weapon for shot down planes and they confirmed that they shot down plane. But later, they removed all theirs confirmation, because they realized that they shot down not Ukrainian airplane.

Edited July 18, 2014 by breaker