Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[faranginbkk]

I guess there are only two choices. One is to get yourself put on a friend's tabien baan and the other is to buy a condo.

Thanks. So there is no problem using a friend's TB?

Can I or he face any difficulties?

[camerata]

I guess there are only two choices. One is to get yourself put on a friend's tabien baan and the other is to buy a condo.

Thanks. So there is no problem using a friend's TB?

Can I or he face any difficulties?

In general it's not a problem because Thais do it all the time - being on the family tabien baan upcountry but living in rented accommodation in Bangkok, for example. As far as I recall, Immigration didn't ask me about it, but when I registered at the district office the boss asked if I really lived there. If you say "no" I'm not sure what happens. If you lie, it may mean your two Thai witnesses would have to lie too. I'd say better ask Immigration right at the beginning of the process. If it's a friend's tabien baan, make sure that friend is one of your witnesses at the district office and tell them once you have PR you intend to buy a condo (since you won't need to import the funds from overseas).

From the friend's point of view, if you ever commit a crime and the police are looking for you, your tabien baan address is the first place they will come. So it's not a small favour.

In the long run you really need your own place (or a wife's place). If I had to move now (where I've been for a decade and have a friendly landlady) I'd be in the same position.

[Kan Win]

Please read my post

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Camerata-s-G...t&p=1007519

Caution

No 3

Yours truly,

Kan Win

[camerata]

I think Caution No. 4 is another reason a non-relative won't be keen to put a stranger on their tabien baan.

[sunsamourai]

Hi all,

Just re-reading the guide, and noticed the address indicated is that of the old place. Would it be possible for a moderator to edit the original message with the new address pls ?

Tnx

Sunsamourai

Preparation and documents

First, go to Immigration (Room 301 at the Suan Phlu Office in Bangkok*), tell them which category you are applying in (Investment, Work/Business, Humanitarian, Expert) and request the appropriate documents. They'll give you a sheet "Detailed Information Needed for Residence Permit Applications," TM.9 Application for Permanent Residence, a Personal Information sheet, a sheet titled "Documents required when applying for a residence permit in the category of [whatever you requested]," a sample medical certificate and a sample form for submitting Thai-language maps of your home and workplace.

[camerata]

The new address is already there in the Updates section, but I'll make it a bit more obvious.

[KamnanT]

I guess there are only two choices. One is to get yourself put on a friend's tabien baan and the other is to buy a condo.

Thanks. So there is no problem using a friend's TB?

Can I or he face any difficulties?

I had the same problem - landlord flatly refused to have me on the tabien baan for the apartment I rented from her. I'm guessing she wasn't declaring all (any?) of the income from her rental activities and the last thing she wanted was unnecessary interaction with government offices. A work colleague agreed to put me on his tabien baan, which was a pretty nice gesture considering he had to come to the amphur office with me and be "less than honest" when asked by the official there if I really lived at that address with my wife and two kids! Six months after receiving my PR, I closed on my own condo and we were transferred across to the new tabien baan.

In practice, a significant percentage of the population of Thailand is not living at their registered address (everyone living in rented accommodation, for example), so I would have thought there is little downside to "jao baan" (head of household) who permits you to use their tabien baan. The only potentially awkward part is the registration process at the amphur.

[satopower]

Hi,

I'm applying this year and am working on getting my documents ready for this December. I have read that PR permits haven't been issued since 2006, but that work permits are supposedly easier to get with PR status (my friend who has PR status attests to this as well).

My question is, if you are waiting for approval, is it still easier to attain a work permit? In other words, is the immigration stamp that says you are a candidate (and are still waiting) still allow you to get a work permit easier?

Also, what happens if you are eventually denied? How would that affect the work permit you got during the waiting period?

I've searched these forums, but couldn't find anything. Any insight would be appreciated.

[camerata]

I'm applying this year and am working on getting my documents ready for this December. I have read that PR permits haven't been issued since 2006, but that work permits are supposedly easier to get with PR status (my friend who has PR status attests to this as well).

Frankly, I've never seen any hard evidence or specific examples of this. My HR department agreed it was true but couldn't give me any details about how it would be easier. My guess is it might help you in a case where you would otherwise be turned down because "a Thai can do the job."

If anyone has any personal experience of PR facilitating a work permit, please post it here.

My question is, if you are waiting for approval, is it still easier to attain a work permit? In other words, is the immigration stamp that says you are a candidate (and are still waiting) still allow you to get a work permit easier?

My guess is it would not.

Also, what happens if you are eventually denied? How would that affect the work permit you got during the waiting period?

Probably not at all. I doubt you'll get any definite answer to this, and it would depend on the exact circumstances of your WP application. I don't think the Dept of Labour would consider "under consideration" as being the same as having PR. Good luck with it, anyway. At the rate the authorities are moving these days, applicants will be dying of old age before getting their PR.

[chivo]

seems like a lot of work, and a good bit of money...

my question is, giving it some fresh thought, is it really worth it?

if i am married and have money in the bank (currently properly employed) won't it nbe easier and cheaper enough to just live on non-imm O visas?

with permanent res you still need to go in every year and get travel visas etc...

[stbkk]

It certainly is a bit of money, and also quite a bit of work, although only once. The yearly 'renewal' is apparently quite quick and painless.

A huge amount of waiting for something to happen as well (at least for the last few years applicants).

For me the major plus point is a degree of certainty, especially if you happen to be unlucky enough to lose your job.

I've mentioned in a previous post that PR does seem to actually be 'permanent', and while they may change the application process a bit, once you have it nothing seems to change afterwards.

You only have to read some of the other threads here regarding the other visas to realise what a benefit that can be.

[Dork]

I'm applying this year and am working on getting my documents ready for this December. I have read that PR permits haven't been issued since 2006, but that work permits are supposedly easier to get with PR status (my friend who has PR status attests to this as well).

Frankly, I've never seen any hard evidence or specific examples of this. My HR department agreed it was true but couldn't give me any details about how it would be easier. My guess is it might help you in a case where you would otherwise be turned down because "a Thai can do the job."

If anyone has any personal experience of PR facilitating a work permit, please post it here.

My question is, if you are waiting for approval, is it still easier to attain a work permit? In other words, is the immigration stamp that says you are a candidate (and are still waiting) still allow you to get a work permit easier?

My guess is it would not.

Also, what happens if you are eventually denied? How would that affect the work permit you got during the waiting period?

Probably not at all. I doubt you'll get any definite answer to this, and it would depend on the exact circumstances of your WP application. I don't think the Dept of Labour would consider "under consideration" as being the same as having PR. Good luck with it, anyway. At the rate the authorities are moving these days, applicants will be dying of old age before getting their PR.

Same goes for me. I have heard it often and my lawyer mentioned it but I've never heard a clear explanation of why or how. I wonder if it means easier to get a work permit because you only have to deal with the Labour Dept and not immigration where in the case of a B extension, immigration can demand company accounts, photo's of the office etc etc.

[satopower]

<<Same goes for me. I have heard it often and my lawyer mentioned it but I've never heard a clear explanation of why or how. I wonder if it means easier to get a work permit because you only have to deal with the Labour Dept and not immigration where in the case of a B extension, immigration can demand company accounts, photo's of the office etc etc.>>

That is what my friend tells me. He says that it is easier because you only have to deal with the Labor Dept and not Immigration. Apparently, Immigration has the onerous rules about 4 Thai employees, etc. My question is whether really the Immigration Dept is out of the picture even if you only have the "application pending" status.

[THAIJAMES]

My question is whether really the Immigration Dept is out of the picture even if you only have the "application pending" status.

They are definitely out of the picture. Since almost everyone would already have a work permit when applying for PR, it is just a matter of getting the work permit renewed. Immigration has no say about your business or any work requirements while you are under consideration.

So you are basically getting all the benefits of PR (which is to keep immigration off your back) but without paying any fees! So not so bad as everyone makes it out to be.

[MikeyIdea]

From what I have heard, X Thai employees per work permit in a company is depending on the visa the foreigner has. If it is a B visa, then the rule applies, if it is e.g. type O, then it does not.

Can someone confirm if this is correct or not

[jayboy]

seems like a lot of work, and a good bit of money...

my question is, giving it some fresh thought, is it really worth it?

if i am married and have money in the bank (currently properly employed) won't it nbe easier and cheaper enough to just live on non-imm O visas?

with permanent res you still need to go in every year and get travel visas etc...

A lot of work: Can be time consuming especially if you do it yourself as some of my friends have successfully done.Your HR department and/or lawyer can ease matters considerably.

Is it worth it?:Very subjective issue.I would say it is just about, particularly if you value security, and plan to stay on in Thailand after retirement or between jobs.

Travel visa:What we are talking about is obtaining the departure endorsement in the Residence Book and multiple re-entry visa.It's a complete formality.Typically the PR holder makes a 5 minute appearence in the morning and his secretary/lawyer picks up the docs in the afternoon.Could be a bore if you do it yourself I suppose but it's a complete formality done in double quick time.

[satopower]

My question is whether really the Immigration Dept is out of the picture even if you only have the "application pending" status.

They are definitely out of the picture. Since almost everyone would already have a work permit when applying for PR, it is just a matter of getting the work permit renewed. Immigration has no say about your business or any work requirements while you are under consideration.

So you are basically getting all the benefits of PR (which is to keep immigration off your back) but without paying any fees! So not so bad as everyone makes it out to be.

That is great news! Yes, I already have a WP, but I was planning on adding another company to it (my own company). This would give me more security if and when I leave my current company (especially since the PR approval wait time is 3 years and counting.)

I would assume that as long as my PR application is pending, it would be no problem to renew the WP (for my own company). But if I eventually get denied, renewal of the WP would be problematic at that point.

[aaoaahq]

Ok everybody, a non-update.

I went to Chaengwattana yesterday to get my latest 6 month extension.

Found my way around the new place fairly easily, and to section D where these are processed.

Spoke to one of the old regulars from Suan Plu, and when I posed the usual 'when?' question (she must be as sick of hearing it as we are of asking it), she looked at me and simply said with resignation, 'I don't know'.

There you go.

One other comment. There was only this one lady handling all the extensions and applications etc. when I was there (approx 10:30). No idea is this is usual at the new office. But in true 'Thai style' I was allowed (instructed) to interrupt the poor chap who was in the middle of making his application. If he reads this, sorry about that!

The silence is deafening! Does anyone have any updates on PR applications for 2006, 2007 and now 2008? I had understood that they were going clear the applications for 2006/2007 by the end of the year, but that now seems wishful thinking.

Any updates would be very much appreciated.

[THAIJAMES]

Ok everybody, a non-update.

I went to Chaengwattana yesterday to get my latest 6 month extension.

Found my way around the new place fairly easily, and to section D where these are processed.

Spoke to one of the old regulars from Suan Plu, and when I posed the usual 'when?' question (she must be as sick of hearing it as we are of asking it), she looked at me and simply said with resignation, 'I don't know'.

There you go.

One other comment. There was only this one lady handling all the extensions and applications etc. when I was there (approx 10:30). No idea is this is usual at the new office. But in true 'Thai style' I was allowed (instructed) to interrupt the poor chap who was in the middle of making his application. If he reads this, sorry about that!

The silence is deafening! Does anyone have any updates on PR applications for 2006, 2007 and now 2008? I had understood that they were going clear the applications for 2006/2007 by the end of the year, but that now seems wishful thinking.

Any updates would be very much appreciated.

The calm before the storm?

[MikeyIdea]

"The calm before the storm?" - Don't think so. I have been out talking to the TM officers a couple of times the last 6 weeks and they still think that the old PRs in the queue will come, as will the new ones. They of course have no idea when but they will come one day. No storm or revolution in Thailand, they will just slowly start to come one day

[Dork]

"The calm before the storm?" - Don't think so. I have been out talking to the TM officers a couple of times the last 6 weeks and they still think that the old PRs in the queue will come, as will the new ones. They of course have no idea when but they will come one day. No storm or revolution in Thailand, they will just slowly start to come one day

Well I hope so but I'm not holding my breath. By coincidence my wife recently met the deputy interior minister and asked him directly why such a long delay. The answer was (without going into too many details) that it is a political issue and there will probably be no resolution until there is a change of interior minister.

[SAMCHAROEN]

"The calm before the storm?" - Don't think so. I have been out talking to the TM officers a couple of times the last 6 weeks and they still think that the old PRs in the queue will come, as will the new ones. They of course have no idea when but they will come one day. No storm or revolution in Thailand, they will just slowly start to come one day

Well I hope so but I'm not holding my breath. By coincidence my wife recently met the deputy interior minister and asked him directly why such a long delay. The answer was (without going into too many details) that it is a political issue and there will probably be no resolution until there is a change of interior minister.

So as long as this int. minister is in office nobody can get their PR ? What does he have to gain or lose ?

[Dork]

"The calm before the storm?" - Don't think so. I have been out talking to the TM officers a couple of times the last 6 weeks and they still think that the old PRs in the queue will come, as will the new ones. They of course have no idea when but they will come one day. No storm or revolution in Thailand, they will just slowly start to come one day

Well I hope so but I'm not holding my breath. By coincidence my wife recently met the deputy interior minister and asked him directly why such a long delay. The answer was (without going into too many details) that it is a political issue and there will probably be no resolution until there is a change of interior minister.

So as long as this int. minister is in office nobody can get their PR ? What does he have to gain or lose ?

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I took it to mean that the PR applications are just one of many things "on hold". Nothing particularly against PR.

[SAMCHAROEN]

Anyone seen the light at the end of the tunnel ?

Edited December 17, 2009 by SAMCHAROEN

[MikeyIdea]

Anyone knows if 2009 application window has opened yet?

I was going to call and can't find the new phone number, anyone has it?

[Mario2008]

Anyone knows if 2009 application window has opened yet?

I was going to call and can't find the new phone number, anyone has it?

Normally it is announced on the immigration police website. But it hasn't been announced there yet.

[stbkk]

Anyone knows if 2009 application window has opened yet?

I was going to call and can't find the new phone number, anyone has it?

Normally it is announced on the immigration police website. But it hasn't been announced there yet.

Unless you are having to make a long distance trip to deliver your application, I'd get down there now.

You don't have anything to lose, and even if they are not officially accepting the applications yet, they may well accept yours as you are there. They are a very friendly set of people.

[camerata]

Anyone knows if 2009 application window has opened yet?

I was going to call and can't find the new phone number, anyone has it?

It's generally middle of December. I'd get down there soon, if you can't get in touch with them. Don't rely on them announcing anything on the web.

[MikeyIdea]

Thanks, I've decided to go the tomorrow

[Arkady]

My question is whether really the Immigration Dept is out of the picture even if you only have the "application pending" status.

They are definitely out of the picture. Since almost everyone would already have a work permit when applying for PR, it is just a matter of getting the work permit renewed. Immigration has no say about your business or any work requirements while you are under consideration.

So you are basically getting all the benefits of PR (which is to keep immigration off your back) but without paying any fees! So not so bad as everyone makes it out to be.

That is great news! Yes, I already have a WP, but I was planning on adding another company to it (my own company). This would give me more security if and when I leave my current company (especially since the PR approval wait time is 3 years and counting.)

I would assume that as long as my PR application is pending, it would be no problem to renew the WP (for my own company). But if I eventually get denied, renewal of the WP would be problematic at that point.

While your PR application is pending, you have a stamp in your passport that indicates that but your status is the same as any other non-immigrant visa holder. You still need to get extensions from Immigration and applying for a WP is no easier than for any other non-imm visa holder.