Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[grtaylor]

I was down at Immigration last Friday morning getting another six month extension, and asked what was happening about the December 2006 applicants. If I understood the lady's reply correctly, she said there was supposed to have been a meeting on September 2nd to finalise everything, but it got cancelled . . . . . .

She did however say "not long now".

G

[Centrum]

It's very quiet in here compared to the previous 2 years. Is anyone actually applying for PR in 2008?

I am hoping to, but I think time will be against me. If not, I'll have a head start for next year.

I have the requirements info and my copy says the applicant for spouse based residency should have been married for 2 years prior to application.

Does this still stand if I have a baby? (well the wife actually had the baby. I just stood by and mumbled supportive nonsense)

Also, any idea on how long the police check from Australia takes?

[KamnanT]

Also, any idea on how long the police check from Australia takes?

The Australian Federal Police handle Police Checks and their website (http://www.afp.gov.au/business/national_police_checks) says they take 15 working days to process. Note that the AFP offers two types of criminal record search: one based solely on name and date of birth and one based on name, date of birth and a fingerprint search. For the purposes of an application for Permanent Residence in Thailand, only a fingerprint-based search is acceptable. An officer in the PR section at Suan Phlu will take a set of your fingerprints for you if you ask. You then have to send the fingerprint card, an application form and money to the AFP in the ACT.

I do remember thinking at the time that it was a bit pointless to give the fingerprint card to the applicant, who, if they had something to hide, could easily substitute a different set for the search.

[dottie]

Hi, thanks for all the useful advice on this thread so far. I have some questions of my own about the process for applying for Permanent Residence and would be grateful for any advice.

I've been working for a big multinational company in Thailand for nearly 4 years (unbroken Non-Immigrant B visa extensions). I believe I meet the criteria for PR except for the salary requirements (local contract!). Last year I earned on average (before tax and including annual bonus) 71,500 baht a month. This year, I earned 81,000 baht a month. That would mean I fall below the threshold of 80,000 baht a month over the past 2 years.

Now, would it be possible to make up the shortfall in tax payments that would have been due if I had earned 80,000 baht a month for the past 2 years?

I also own 2 condos worth about 6 million baht in total (bought in 2005 and 2006/7) and speak quite good Thai. Would that count for anything .... or should I just wait and apply next year?

What's the status about last year's applications?

What's the deadline for this year?

Finally, if anyone has any lawyer they could recommend, I'd be most grateful to hear about them whether I apply this year or next (PM me is OK).

Thanks in advance for any sensible advice.

[Billion]

Hi all,

It will be a long waiting for the Permanent Residence and I’ve just applied for Permanent Residence 2008 based on being married to Thai woman.

I’m not a tax payer in Thailand, just showing the 400k for five years with 3 month deposit before the application.

I provided all the possible docs they wanted and a large bank account of millions of Baht in Thai bank.

They finally took my application and my friend (lawyer) said: we have to wait 2 or 3 year for the final result of the Permanent Residence.

When I applied the six years extension of stay based on being married to Thai woman in October 2008 they had a couple of new rules for this year.

1. You have to go to your local Immigration office within your area.

2. You must have 2 copies of EVERYTHING, 2 copies of TM7 and 2 copies of passport, passbook, marriage docs etc.

3. You are enforced to do the 90 days report from August 1, 2008.

Good Luck.

[Siamfan]

Camerata,

can you please tell me the name or number of the legal firm you hired for the process? Or can you recommend another? Please, urgent!!!

[Centrum]

Following up on my trials and tribulations.

I contacted the Aussie embassy, who gave me little info about the police check other than 'We don't handle that here'.

My next stop was room 301, where I was told to go to the Aussie Embassy, as the Immigration lady inquired where I was from, to organise my fingerprints check.

Also, if you wish to comply via a Thai child you need a DNA report linking Mother, Father and child.

All documents from outside Thailand need to be certified at your embassy and then translated and finally certified in Thailand. This is for docs such as diplomas, police check etc.

To finish, the information I was given by Sunbelt appears to be out of date, compared to the sheet from Immigration but I would hazard a guess and say they prolly know what they're doing.

Have fun if you're applying. It found my 'too-hard basket' this time round.

[Centrum]

BTW the lady at 301 mumbled something about applications being in by the first week of December.

Originally I was told the last working day of Dec.

Best give Immigration a call and sort that one out.

[camerata]

Camerata,

can you please tell me the name or number of the legal firm you hired for the process? Or can you recommend another? Please, urgent!!!

I wouldn't particularly recommend the company I used and the guy I dealt with has left. Try Sunbelt Asia. They are (or were) a sponsor of this forum.

[camerata]

Now, would it be possible to make up the shortfall in tax payments that would have been due if I had earned 80,000 baht a month for the past 2 years?

I also own 2 condos worth about 6 million baht in total (bought in 2005 and 2006/7) and speak quite good Thai. Would that count for anything .... or should I just wait and apply next year?

For something like this, I'd go down to Immigration and ask them. No one else can tell you for sure.

What's the status about last year's applications?

What's the deadline for this year?

Normally the deadline is the last working day of the year. Normally, applications take about 16 months to be approved, but it depends on the political situation. A new government means a new Interior Minister with a new workload to get through.

Finally, if anyone has any lawyer they could recommend, I'd be most grateful to hear about them whether I apply this year or next (PM me is OK).

Try Sunbelt Asia.

[grtaylor]

Normally, applications take about 16 months to be approved, but it depends on the political situation. A new government means a new Interior Minister with a new workload to get through.

Tell me about it - come December it will actually be two years for the 2006 applicants, and not a word . . . . . .

[Goinghomesoon]

Following up on my trials and tribulations.

I contacted the Aussie embassy, who gave me little info about the police check other than 'We don't handle that here'.

Right, they don't. Check post #393 above for the website to obtain the application. Then send them off to Australian Federal Police in Canberra who will conduct the check.

[younghusband]

Hi all,

It will be a long waiting for the Permanent Residence and I’ve just applied for Permanent Residence 2008 based on being married to Thai woman.

I’m not a tax payer in Thailand, just showing the 400k for five years with 3 month deposit before the application.

I provided all the possible docs they wanted and a large bank account of millions of Baht in Thai bank.

They finally took my application and my friend (lawyer) said: we have to wait 2 or 3 year for the final result of the Permanent Residence.

Good Luck.

Others more knowledgeable than myself (eg Camerata) may wish to comment but as far as I know it's not possible to obtain PR without a tax record and for that matter without work permit/appropriate visa.

[Maizefarmer]

That is correct: but tax paid is only part of the overall points scoring process, so do not draw a link between amount earned and chances of getting your PR - there are many exceptions e.g. religous workers (Catholic priests - I know 2 ex-pat Catholic priests who earn very very little), and charity workers. None-the-less, they have a tax record, the point is the authorities do not use the amount earned (hence, tax paid) as a stand alone "go - no go" criteria for processing a PR application.

[Billion]

Hi all,

It will be a long waiting for the Permanent Residence and I’ve just applied for Permanent Residence 2008 based on being married to Thai woman.

I’m not a tax payer in Thailand, just showing the 400k for five years with 3 month deposit before the application.

I provided all the possible docs they wanted and a large bank account of millions of Baht in Thai bank.

They finally took my application and my friend (lawyer) said: we have to wait 2 or 3 year for the final result of the Permanent Residence.

Good Luck.

Others more knowledgeable than myself (eg Camerata) may wish to comment but as far as I know it's not possible to obtain PR without a tax record and for that matter without work permit/appropriate visa.

younghusband

It might be possible because my friend (lawyer) knows the people in the PPP ruling party.

Has a brother in the government, wouldn’t you do the same if you had the same deal!

If the PPP ruling party will be gone then we don’t know for sure he said. (Lawyer)

[younghusband]

Hi all,

It will be a long waiting for the Permanent Residence and I’ve just applied for Permanent Residence 2008 based on being married to Thai woman.

I’m not a tax payer in Thailand, just showing the 400k for five years with 3 month deposit before the application.

I provided all the possible docs they wanted and a large bank account of millions of Baht in Thai bank.

They finally took my application and my friend (lawyer) said: we have to wait 2 or 3 year for the final result of the Permanent Residence.

Good Luck.

Others more knowledgeable than myself (eg Camerata) may wish to comment but as far as I know it's not possible to obtain PR without a tax record and for that matter without work permit/appropriate visa.

younghusband

It might be possible because my friend (lawyer) knows the people in the PPP ruling party.

Has a brother in the government, wouldn’t you do the same if you had the same deal!

If the PPP ruling party will be gone then we don’t know for sure he said. (Lawyer)

No I wouldn't do the same because it's in clear breach of established rules.I don't expect you will take my advice but all the alarm bells should be ringing.

Maizefarmer, point taken but I was really just clarifying that wok permit/correct visa/tax record is necessary.

[Maestro]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

--

Maestro

[Centrum]

Following up on my trials and tribulations.

I contacted the Aussie embassy, who gave me little info about the police check other than 'We don't handle that here'.

Right, they don't. Check post #393 above for the website to obtain the application. Then send them off to Australian Federal Police in Canberra who will conduct the check.

The Australian Embassy is required to certify the police check as authentic, as told to me by the good woman in 301.

Who also suggested I contact the Australian Embassy when I inquired about a fingerprint check.

The AFP do not answer emails to their address either, BTW.

It's not that I think a permanent Residency to another country should be an easy thing to get. but bureaucratic ping-pong ain't my game.

I hope this information can help the next poor guy going through the motions anyway.

Remember, give yourselves plenty of time before the application needs to be submitted.

[Haddo]

I heard today some rather disheartening news for those of us who applied for PR in 2006.

I hope someone can prove me wrong, but apparently nothing has been done with our applications for the last 2 years - they have sat in a cupboard gathering dust!

This came from my father-in-law who checked with someone in the department that he knows personally.

He says that the head of the section has now been replaced.

[grtaylor]

I heard today some rather disheartening news for those of us who applied for PR in 2006.

I hope someone can prove me wrong, but apparently nothing has been done with our applications for the last 2 years - they have sat in a cupboard gathering dust!

This came from my father-in-law who checked with someone in the department that he knows personally.

He says that the head of the section has now been replaced.

I have asked the father of one of my students, a Police Lt. General, who works at the Interior Ministry, if one of his staff can find out what is going on. No news yet, but I'll report back if I hear anything.

[Billion]

Hi all,

It will be a long waiting for the Permanent Residence and I’ve just applied for Permanent Residence 2008 based on being married to Thai woman.

I’m not a tax payer in Thailand, just showing the 400k for five years with 3 month deposit before the application.

I provided all the possible docs they wanted and a large bank account of millions of Baht in Thai bank.

They finally took my application and my friend (lawyer) said: we have to wait 2 or 3 year for the final result of the Permanent Residence.

Good Luck.

Others more knowledgeable than myself (eg Camerata) may wish to comment but as far as I know it's not possible to obtain PR without a tax record and for that matter without work permit/appropriate visa.

younghusband

It might be possible because my friend (lawyer) knows the people in the PPP ruling party.

Has a brother in the government, wouldn’t you do the same if you had the same deal!

If the PPP ruling party will be gone then we don’t know for sure he said. (Lawyer)

PPP Dissolved.

Now I can kiss goodbye to my RP, please forgive me for being a stupid farang.

My friend (lawyer) not to be punished, he’s just helping a friend.

[Goinghomesoon]

Following up on my trials and tribulations.

I contacted the Aussie embassy, who gave me little info about the police check other than 'We don't handle that here'.

Right, they don't. Check post #393 above for the website to obtain the application. Then send them off to Australian Federal Police in Canberra who will conduct the check.

The Australian Embassy is required to certify the police check as authentic, as told to me by the good woman in 301.

Who also suggested I contact the Australian Embassy when I inquired about a fingerprint check.

The AFP do not answer emails to their address either, BTW.

It's not that I think a permanent Residency to another country should be an easy thing to get. but bureaucratic ping-pong ain't my game.

I hope this information can help the next poor guy going through the motions anyway.

Remember, give yourselves plenty of time before the application needs to be submitted.

Right, so you get the police check from the AFP in Australia (not Thailand). Then, after you receive your original police check certificate you go to the Australian Embassy with the certificate and your passport to have a Certified Copy made for a small fee. The certification is done by the Consular area, not the AFP office.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Goinghomesoon

[eggomaniac]

The details of the process differ from year to year, from province to province, and according to the applicant's situation and reason for applying. This is a guide, not the bible.

* Reference letters from senior Thais supporting your good character and application. Obviously, the more senior or well-known, the better.

Can you imagine if someone started in 2005 with a reference letter from Thaksin? Yes, things can change.

[grtaylor]

Here's the notification of this year's (2008) dates and information for PR applicants:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/2noti...6_quota_eng.pdf

Hopefully, a new government will mean that those of us who applied in December 2006 might hear something soon . . . . . . .

[Time Traveller]

I recently was advised that it might be better for me to apply for pr instead of yearly renewals and that this forum might have some advice. Actually, I have read the requirments in both Thai and English for each category as well as general requirments and I'm not really clear on one issue. So I wanted to know if it is a requirement that all applicants have work permit or not and would appreciate replies from people that have received the resident permit.

My situation is I came to thailand many years (13) ago as an investor, then I sold out of the business and continued to stay here as an employee on work permit. Just recently I resigned to stay at home and help my wife to take care of our new baby (both are Thai citizens). I have been here on continous yearly extensions for over 4yrs and meet all the requirements such as tax paid, minimum income levels - actually it's several times the minimum - which is derived from registered investments in thailand. So, I just wanted to know is work permit compulsory or only for applicants that are working? A pity I missed the december 30 deadline for applying, as I was still in emplorment then.

Thanks everyone for advice.

[grtaylor]

I recently was advised that it might be better for me to apply for pr instead of yearly renewals and that this forum might have some advice. Actually, I have read the requirments in both Thai and English for each category as well as general requirments and I'm not really clear on one issue. So I wanted to know if it is a requirement that all applicants have work permit or not and would appreciate replies from people that have received the resident permit.

My situation is I came to thailand many years (13) ago as an investor, then I sold out of the business and continued to stay here as an employee on work permit. Just recently I resigned to stay at home and help my wife to take care of our new baby (both are Thai citizens). I have been here on continous yearly extensions for over 4yrs and meet all the requirements such as tax paid, minimum income levels - actually it's several times the minimum - which is derived from registered investments in thailand. So, I just wanted to know is work permit compulsory or only for applicants that are working? A pity I missed the december 30 deadline for applying, as I was still in emplorment then.

Thanks everyone for advice.

As far as I know, you need to be:

• working, with a work permit, and have been with the same company for one year at least
  
• have worked continuously for a period of three years before you apply
  
• have proof of tax paid during those three years.
  

On that basis, if you got a job with work permit now, you could apply in three years time . . . . . .

However, as others have said in this thread, the rules are always changing, and there are "exceptions". Why not go and talk to them in Rm 301 at immigration. I found them to be very helpful and friendly.

By the way, I applied in December 2006 and am still waiting for the results to be announced . . . . . .

[Mario2008]

I think it is beter to say you need to show you pay taxes, working is not necesarry.

[Time Traveller]

Ok, tax records is no problem - i have those. Think I'll follow grtaylor's advice and visit room 301 and ask. I guess it's no hurry since applications are not open yet, and judging by the wait time for 2006 applicants, I don't think those people are in hurry either !

[grtaylor]

Ok, tax records is no problem - i have those. Think I'll follow grtaylor's advice and visit room 301 and ask. I guess it's no hurry since applications are not open yet, and judging by the wait time for 2006 applicants, I don't think those people are in hurry either !

I don't think the current hold-up is anything to do with the Immigration Department. The lady in Rm.301 told me that, as soon as they have interviewed the applicants and verified their paperwork, they send the completed applications to the Ministry of the Interior. From that point on, its out of their hands. I think that they're stuck at the Ministry, and if I had to think of a reason, I would suggest that the political turmoil of the last two years is it. How many ministers have there been in the last two years?

G

[KamnanT]

At the first stage of the process, the Permanent Residence section of the Immigration Bureau (a.k.a Room 301) collects and verifies the information required to support each application, including conducting interviews with each applicant and testing them on their spoken Thai language abilities. This is normally completed by the end of March following the December application period (three months).

Each application is then considered by the Immigration Commission, whose members are drawn from a number of government ministries. Your application must be unanimously approved by all ministry representatives. This is the part that takes over a year - your file is circulated around to all of the ministries, being reviewed and approved at each stop. Of course, it has to sit in a lot of in-trays on its epic journey.

13-15 months after submission, you should get a letter telling you that the Immigration Commission has granted "acceptance in principal" to your application or rejected it. If it's accepted, your file goes on to the final step: sign-off by the Interior Minister. This should take a month or two, but given the number of different Interior Ministers we've had in the last 3 years, it would appear none of them have gotten around to signing the stack of PR applications on the desk. Alas, as a result even the December 2006 applicants are still waiting.