Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[StoneSoup]

I am in the December 2011 cohort of recently submitted applications.

I just wanted to compare and contrast my experience with Camerata's original post, in a couple of areas.

Like Camerata, I turned my application in during late December. I did not go myself - my processing agent submitted the packet for me. It was reviewed for completeness - she told them that I was missing the report of criminal background check from my home country - in my case, the USA - but that i had requested that document. They accepted my application with this deficiency, simply noting that i should bring that document in, once it arrived.

About five weeks later, I was called in for my first interview. Basically, the information in my entire packet had been reduced down to one two-sided piece of paper - which was part affidavit of fact concerning my personal details, and partly declarations by me - concerning the facts being true, and my understanding of the process steps. The official asked me most of the questions in checklist fashion - in Thai. A few entries on the draft were wrong - at the end, she went away and corrected the errors - and brought back the corrected document. I then had to sign the affidavit at the bottom of the back side. I was then sent to another part of the office to be fingerprinted - two complete sets.

Then - nothing further happened until last week, when an invitation letter was sent to my office, directing me to appear for an interview at 9:30 am on 14 March. So - that is what I did. I went alone this time, bringing my passport, work permit, and the invitation letter. . I picked up a queue number, and waited. When they called my number, I went to designated booth - they took my invitation letter, checked it off against a big ledger book, and then asked me to return to my seat in the waiting room. After about ten minutes, an assistant in civilian clothes motioned for me to follow her. She handed me a pink square of paper with the number "15" on it.

I followed her, and ended up in a small room with two officials at desks, and two sofas to seat the applicants - plus one chair in front of each official's desk. There were seven applicants in the room - very tight fit. One in each chair, dealing with the officials, and five seated on the sofas. They call your number in sequence, and you go sit in front of the woman Sergeant Major, who has a big ledger book. She asks you many questions about your age, nationality, home address, employer, etc. - all in Thai. She also takes your passport and compares it to the ledger book. She then has you sign your name in the ledger book, alongside the pre-printed answers to all the questions, which you just answered. What figured out was - this entire step is simply to weed out "proxies" that have been sent to represent applicants. Evidently, some applicants have sent "ringers" in, in place of themselves, to "ace" the interview.

You next move to the other desk, where the officer (I think a Colonel) takes a photo of you, and then prints the photo onto a stack of about ten sheets. The sheets are interview score sheets - with rows and columns in a matrix , with headings at the top and left. I noted from the conversation between the two officers that i was the #10 American applicant for this year.

They then take away your pink number slip, and replace it with a blue number slip - same number. You are then led down a hallway to a waiting room - which is full of applicants. As I said, I was number 15 - and there were about ten people in the room when I got there. While i waited, about another seven applicants came in - and the same number were called out ahead of me. We spoke among ourselves a bit - of the 15 applicants with whom I crossed paths, one was an American lady, one was a German man, another two were from Singapore - and the rest were split about 50/50 between Taiwanese and Indians.

They called out one applicant about every seven or eight minutes. When it is your turn, you go out - hand your number slip to an attendant, and they place you in a chair right outside the interview room. The applicant who preceded you then exits a door down the hallway - and the attendant motions for you to enter the near doorway.

You go in, and there is a long set of tables placed end-to-end together, with a white tablecloth over them all - this is along the far wall. Then there is a single table facing the long table - this also has white tablecloth - and a chair behind it. This is where you will sit. The space between your table and the long table is about four or five meters. At the far left end, there was video camera set up - they videotape the interviews.

Seated at the big table were seven officials. Three were in tan uniforms - the other four were in civilian coat and tie. Two (in uniform) were women. Only the two women, and two of the men ever spoke to me. The other three just sat and observed and smiled.

They have the interview scoring sheets with your photo on top, from the earlier step. They go through a series of questions in Thai - and they are making scoring notes all the time. My guess is that there are ten scoring categories, and they award up to ten points per category.

The question included simple personal details - what's you name, where do you live, where do you work, what is your job position. Then they asked about my family (I applied on the basis of business, but I have a Thai wife and two sons). As I am a business owner, they asked me to explain about the activities of my business. They then asked me about where I'd traveled in Thailand - and then asked me if I liked Thai food. I said yes - and they then asked me to name Thai menu items that I enjoyed. So - I named about four dishes - and one woman then asked me if I liked fish. I said yes - and a man then asked me to name a few types of Thai fish. I could only think of tub-tim and pomfret - so I named these. They were still waiting for more - so I then said that I eat the fish, I don't talk to them, so I don't learn their names. They all laughed, and dropped the subject. They next asked me about my charitable contributions - and I have none. No points there - but they maybe gave me a point or two for saying that i gave money to my wife and to my employees, and encourage them to "tamm boon" - and I think Thais know better than me anyway, where to put charitable money to good use. They next asked me about what i did on my free time - I told them i work mostly, but i do play pool (9-ball) on a league team - they found this acceptable - and that I used to breed Siamese Fighting Fish (since they seemed to like fish!). They seemed to like this answer.

Then - it was all over. They motioned for me to depart via the far door. The whole interview lasted maybe seven or eight minutes. They were very friendly and polite - I think they are used to people being very nervous and frightened. They smiled and laughed a lot. I had to ask them to repeat some questions that I did not understand well - and they immediately asked in a different way, using easier words. So - they adjust the interview to your Thai language ability - making adjustments at the edges. And - if you are answering, and you stumble for a word - they will suggest a word, within context - to help you along. But - I think it is certain that you must speak at least a reasonable level of Thai to get through this interview step.

One note: Although i do not normally "wai" Thai officials, I did wai at my entrance, and at my departure - before sitting down, and after standing up. I am convinced that this is a scoring point - and there is no reason to give away easy points.

You walk out of the interview room, and you are finished.

SS

Edited March 15, 2012 by StoneSoup

[Mario2008]

Thanks for your report, it will be most useful to others in your position.

Good luck with your application.

[GarryP]

A very good report, but it all sounds so intimidating. I am not going to bother with PR, but perhaps the citizenship interviews will be quite similar as I understand that there is some overlap in requirements.

[pablomeng]

I was the first queue on 14th March interview. After reading in this forum that applicants from 2006 batch are still waiting, I'm wondering when we will get it tomorrow I will call the officer and see if they give me some insights ....

[tombkk]

I am in the December 2011 cohort of recently submitted applications.

{snip}

You walk out of the interview room, and you are finished.

SS

Thanks for your report. It's a bit different from my 2007 experience (I applied in 2006), so the update is refreshing. Good luck!

[tombkk]

I believe a document I received today in Thai by registerd letter from immigration which I have to sign indicates that my residency application from 2006 is now on full steam ahead. Any one else received similar.

I am from 2007 batch and have not received any such letter so far....Will it affect my status in anyway if if don't get such letter? I want the PR.

If someone knows the phone number of the department please pass on so I can call them.

Sorry, no idea what the number is, but I would certainly follow it up. It you can get up to CW in person, you could fill it in and return it at the same time. However, there is a section on the bottom for details of wife/gf/lawyer etc. who translated it for you, so you would need to go with them, I'd guess.

You should do it pretty quickly also, as mine was dated nearly 2 weeks ago, and you only get 30 days to reply.

Good luck.

Called them up today and going there next week as they are too busy this week and would't attend this week if anyone goes there. Will go there and sight the document and have peace of mind. Suggest the once who didn't get letter to go there within end march and reconfirm to them that you need PR. Seems this is not a must but can be handy for people who really need PR and CW will have one less excuse to delay it any further.

OK, I got nervous due to the info in this thread and couldn't wait, as I will leave for Europe tomorrow. I went to Chaeng Wat this morning, armed with my passport and my application number. My queue number was called before I could even find the comics in the Nation...

"Sawasdee krup", I says in fluent Thai, "my friends received letters and I didn't". "Did you by any chance change your address", she asks. "Well, yes I did but I reported it here..."

"No problem", she pulled up my letter from the computer, printed it out. I read it (bring someone if you don't read Thai), and on the reverse side I confirmed that I am still interested in the PR. The farang next to me (they processed both of us at the same time) asked in fluent Thai how much longer he has to wait as he applied in 2006 (like me), and they said, a couple of more months.

OK, once I had signed the document, I asked for a photocopy, with was provided.

Everything free of charge, in and out in 10 minutes.

I encourage everybody who has not received the letter to go to Chaeng Wat. Mine was dated 23 February and asked me to return it within 30 days after receipt, but what if I had never received it?

Oh, when I arrived home in the evening, the originally posted letter had finally arrived. But I am still happy I went to Immi myself this morning.

[tamvine]

I went there as well. Two important things: 1. Even if you don't sign the letter due to some reason they will still process the application. 2. Only 2006/7/8 are being processed this year. Other years still have to wait.

[tamvine]

Though Camerata's had explained what happens once you get a PR letter from Immegration. However it is not 6 years since those procedures were posted. Does someone has any update on it? Are there nay change?

Edited March 22, 2012 by lopburi3
fix font

[skyaslimit]

nobody have recieved a PR acceptance letter since 2006 so I assume there will be no change, but you never know

[NewlyMintedThai]

nobody have recieved a PR acceptance letter since 2006 so I assume there will be no change, but you never know

Not "nobody", but few.

[scorecard]

Thanks for your report, it will be most useful to others in your position.

Good luck with your application.

Wow. I got PR more than 17 years ago. I don't wish to gloat, not at all, but back then the interview was obviously a much easier process. And the fees were much less

The documents required to be submitted is probably the same then as now, and I'm aware that a very large percentage of applicants were 'knocked out' at the initial inspection of the documents, plus more 'knocked out' at the interview stage.

The interview process was just one visit, and one friendly interview, with a captain (porkong) mostly in Thai, and about 15 minutes total.

After the interview he asked me to wait outside, but within just two or three minutes he called me back and said 'approved' and shook my hand.

He then said in English, 'you will get an approval letter within about 14 days, but if it doesn't arrive soon after the 14 days please call me and I'll persoanlly follow up quickly', and he gave me his card. It did arrive about 10 days later.

In the year I got approval the total successful applicants from my home country was 5 people.

Good luck.

Edited March 31, 2012 by scorecard

[SAMCHAROEN]

Thanks for your report, it will be most useful to others in your position.

Good luck with your application.

Wow. I got PR more than 17 years ago. I don't wish to gloat, not at all, but back then the interview was obviously a much easier process. And the fees were much less

The documents required to be submitted is probably the same then as now, and I'm aware that a very large percentage of applicants were 'knocked out' at the initial inspection of the documents, plus more 'knocked out' at the interview stage.

The interview process was just one visit, and one friendly interview, with a captain (porkong) mostly in Thai, and about 15 minutes total.

After the interview he asked me to wait outside, but within just two or three minutes he called me back and said 'approved' and shook my hand.

He then said in English, 'you will get an approval letter within about 14 days, but if it doesn't arrive soon after the 14 days please call me and I'll persoanlly follow up quickly', and he gave me his card. It did arrive about 10 days later.

In the year I got approval the total successful applicants from my home country was 5 people.

Good luck.

Amazing!!! Wow...things were much simpler back then.

[NewlyMintedThai]

That's why if you can do it now, you should. I'm glad I got mine in 2002, before they jacked the price.

[cooked]

maybe this has been discussed on this thread, but There are 7 pages and counting: According to Thai visa, "In addition to the permanent residence book, an alien registration book will be issued, which is the equivalent of the ID card held by Thais."

Very important: does this mean that you are then able to receive medical treatment at are Thais upon presentation of their ID cards? (Gold card is being phased out)? Not having to pay medical insurance privately would surely be a very big advantage.

Anybody know about this?

[cooked]

wow, 51 pages!

[skyaslimit]

maybe this has been discussed on this thread, but There are 7 pages and counting: According to Thai visa, "In addition to the permanent residence book, an alien registration book will be issued, which is the equivalent of the ID card held by Thais."

Very important: does this mean that you are then able to receive medical treatment at are Thais upon presentation of their ID cards? (Gold card is being phased out)? Not having to pay medical insurance privately would surely be a very big advantage.

Anybody know about this?

dont you see they call it ALIEN book which means you are still an alien .

[Mario2008]

I presume you work, if you pay into the social security fund you can have freemedical treatment under their scheme.

[cooked]

maybe this has been discussed on this thread, but There are 7 pages and counting: According to Thai visa, "In addition to the permanent residence book, an alien registration book will be issued, which is the equivalent of the ID card held by Thais."

Very important: does this mean that you are then able to receive medical treatment at are Thais upon presentation of their ID cards? (Gold card is being phased out)? Not having to pay medical insurance privately would surely be a very big advantage.

Anybody know about this?

dont you see they call it ALIEN book which means you are still an alien .

Ok, you are right, so the phrase 'equivalent of the ID card held by Thais' is another example of inexact or misleading translations.

[scorecard]

maybe this has been discussed on this thread, but There are 7 pages and counting: According to Thai visa, "In addition to the permanent residence book, an alien registration book will be issued, which is the equivalent of the ID card held by Thais."

Very important: does this mean that you are then able to receive medical treatment at are Thais upon presentation of their ID cards? (Gold card is being phased out)? Not having to pay medical insurance privately would surely be a very big advantage.

Anybody know about this?

dont you see they call it ALIEN book which means you are still an alien .

Ok, you are right, so the phrase 'equivalent of the ID card held by Thais' is another example of inexact or misleading translations.

I have PR, for 17 odd years.

You get two books:

1. A small dark blue covered book nearly same size as a passport (but it's not a passport, although it is stamped with visa entry and exit stamps and your original passport is also stamped in and out at the same time) and it says on the cover in English 'Cerificate of Residence' meaning permanent resident. There is no 3 monthly reporting or similar when you have the PR book. It's issued by the Thai Immigration office and when it's full of stamps immigration issue you a second book but this time it has a white cover. The only time you need to do anything with this book is:

1. When it's full, get it reissued, as above.
   
2. Take it to immigration to get a exit and re-entry permit stamp inserted, if you wish to depart /return to Thailand.
   
3. Show it at the airport on departure or arrival for stamping along with your home country passport.
   

It can be revoked on two scenarios:

1. Get a criminal record in Thailand or anywhere and it's cancelled
   
2. If your outside of Thailand for 364 days in one block period you have no problem. 365 days or more, in one block period, and it's automatically cancelled and there is no process of appeal
   

2. You also get a red covered book which is your Police Registration Book issued at a local (bigger) police station. This is so that the local police have some record of farang in their area who have permanent residence.status You must go back and refresh your recorded address 12 months later, but the police, at their discretion can tell you, 'all OK, now come back in 3 or 5 years time to refresh the address' The notation they put in the book clealry indicates when you must next refresh the recorded address.

Folks you have PR do NOT get a Thai ID card.

Folks you have PR are also expected to record their name in the normal dark blue covered Tabien Baan (household registration) book for the address where you actually live. You do this at your local amphur office. When this is done, because you show the PR book you do get issued with a Thai ID number but it does NOt mean that you have citizenship and it does not lead, automatically to a Thai passport, which is another very separate process and you cannot use this to ask for a Thai ID card. The Thai ID number inserted in the Tabien Baan has some further words which indicate to the government staff that you have PR status.

Edited April 12, 2012 by scorecard

[scorecard]

I presume you work, if you pay into the social security fund you can have freemedical treatment under their scheme.

Hi Mario, as always thanks for the valuable details. I'm hoping you can answer my question about free medical benefits from the Thai system:

- I'm 67 years old

- Have had work permits and Social Security cards for over 30 years

- I retired then restarted work as a consultant just 12 months ago, but when new employer attempted to get me a social security membership that office said 'cannot - over the age limit of 65'

- Company staff asked the Social Security office if it was true that PR holders regarldess of woring status were entitled to a card indicating they are (because of PR and nothing more) entitled to free medical benefits? SS office said 'don't know and no idea where to contact on this question'. I never did get an answer.

Any suggestions where to contact, please.

Edited April 13, 2012 by scorecard

[samran]

Scorecard, believe you needed to start making the 432 baht/month voluntary contributions right after you left the employ of your old job to keep the SS coverage up. Post 65 my understanding is no one can join (or in your case rejoin).

[GabbaGabbaHey]

On March 8th, Siamfan was saying: "So, was there on monday, all very friendly, busy posting more letters to applicants. They said, all PR will be processed now within the next 3 months.[...]"

April 23rd: let's cross fingers because we are exactly half-time, given the assumption.

[camerata]

After you leave a company, Social Security will cover you free for 6 months, within which you need to start paying your own contributions at 432 baht/month or be dropped. According to the Social Security FAQ, you can't join after the age of 60:

http://www.sso.go.th/wpr/eng/faq_Whois%20theinsured.html

You can claim all your previous contributions back with interest, though. Silom Branch has one person who speaks decent English and is very helpful.

[camerata]

Ok, you are right, so the phrase 'equivalent of the ID card held by Thais' is another example of inexact or misleading translations.

I think what they mean is that the Alien's Book is equivalent to a Thai ID card for the purpose of identification, but it doesn't work that way in real life. A Thai driver's licence is more useful.

[camerata]

I'm coming up to the first renewal of my Alien's Book. Can someone give my an idea of the process and what documents I need to take? Do I have to read or write anything in Thai, as was required when I first registered? Also, my passport has been renewed. What's the process in getting the new ID number in my Alien's Book?

[MikeyIdea]

I believe a document I received today in Thai by registerd letter from immigration which I have to sign indicates that my residency application from 2006 is now on full steam ahead. Any one else received similar.

I am from 2007 batch and have not received any such letter so far....Will it affect my status in anyway if if don't get such letter? I want the PR.

If someone knows the phone number of the department please pass on so I can call them.

Same happened to me and a nice man called Ta^ang called me and requested me to come over. Phone number is : 02-141-9899 if you want to call and check

But I would rather go there as;

1) We have all waited a looong time and if something goes wrong with my PR because I didn't carefully confirm what I knew was a possible issue, then I'd cry for a month...

2) You'd have to go there anyway to sign...

This nice guy called on Tuesday this week and I couldn't come until Monday (30-April) because of committments, no problem he said. Must bring passport, only thing needed

Edited April 27, 2012 by MikeyIdea

[JoePai]

I'm coming up to the first renewal of my Alien's Book. Can someone give my an idea of the process and what documents I need to take? Do I have to read or write anything in Thai, as was required when I first registered? Also, my passport has been renewed. What's the process in getting the new ID number in my Alien's Book?

I need to renew my stamps - and also have a new passport. I asked at my usual police station and was told I had to go back to BKK to have the updates with the new passport entered

[MikeyIdea]

I believe a document I received today in Thai by registerd letter from immigration which I have to sign indicates that my residency application from 2006 is now on full steam ahead. Any one else received similar.

I am from 2007 batch and have not received any such letter so far....Will it affect my status in anyway if if don't get such letter? I want the PR.

If someone knows the phone number of the department please pass on so I can call them.

Same happened to me and a nice man called Ta^ang called me and requested me to come over. Phone number is : 02-141-9899 if you want to call and check

But I would rather go there as;

1) We have all waited a looong time and if something goes wrong with my PR because I didn't carefully confirm what I knew was a possible issue, then I'd cry for a month...

2) You'd have to go there anyway to sign...

This nice guy called on Tuesday this week and I couldn't come until Monday (30-April) because of committments, no problem he said. Must bring passport, only thing needed

TM called me yesterday SUNDAY afternoon at 5PM and wanted to be sure that I'd come in directly the morning on Monday (today) as they were ready to send over the papers to the Ministry of Foreign affairs. 2009 is leaving immigration now the officer said. She did not want to comment anything about when the Ministry would process though

[MikeyIdea]

TM called me yesterday SUNDAY afternoon at 5PM and wanted to be sure that I'd come in directly the morning on Monday (today) as they were ready to send over the papers to the Ministry of Foreign affairs. 2009 is leaving immigration now the officer said. She did not want to comment anything about when the Ministry would process though

My stupid, Ministry of Interior of course, not Foreign affairs...

[tombkk]

TM called me yesterday SUNDAY afternoon at 5PM and wanted to be sure that I'd come in directly the morning on Monday (today) as they were ready to send over the papers to the Ministry of Foreign affairs. 2009 is leaving immigration now the officer said. She did not want to comment anything about when the Ministry would process though

My stupid, Ministry of Interior of course, not Foreign affairs...

Did you go in, and what happened?