August 29 - heavy new penalties await visa overstays: Thai Immigration

[Tine]

What happens if you have sent your passport away to get a visa for another country and then you get stopped by the police and they want to fine you? Any leniency or do you still get a hefty fine ?

[gemini81]

Priorities. 'Gee, why are we still a developing country after all these years?'

[Sjptain]

As previously mentioned, when carrying a passport in thailand (or anywhere for that matter) there is a greater risk of losing/getting stolen. After the Malaysia plane that went missing it was noted that two of the passengers were travelling on passports stolen in thailand, and so they went on a tirade about this....now it looks like they have forgotten about this and opening up wider opportunities to have more passports stolen as opposed to solving the issue. TIT they will do as they please and to be honest if we are not happy how they run things we can either 1) accept it, or 2) move on.

 

To Thai Visa - Does this mean the THB2,000 fine mentioned a few days ago has now increased to THB20,000?

[ezzra]

Didn't see any punishments being meted to the corrupt officials, whom, in many cases, has

enabled this shenanigan to go on unabated for decades, what? move to inactive posts?

[gemini81]

 

I believe the passport carrying allows for a photocopy to be carried AS LONG AS it is a certified copy (my guess is getting it stamped on entry at Immigration).  Anyone familiar with what qualifies as certified?

 

important point... can carrying a colored photocopy suffice?  if certified how to do it?  don't want to carry my original around obviously

 

will a Thai driving Licence do???  

 

 

Drivers license, I was told by the officer our company deals with for work permits, isn't acceptable- I guess I'll take her word for it.

She told me this: LAMINATED color image of first page of passport, current visa page, front and back of departure/entry card-one page if they stamped it on the front- so they can see the stamp and the code. If you do that, you've got all your info in color, waterproof too, and can't get your passport lost/stolen from your bag. 

I was told if you don't have any ID on you, you have got 24 hours to show it; however accurate that is- I know if its the police station they are gonna want to see the real one- but you should be given time to show it; like the next day stop back.

Often it seems case by case. Like when you go to the bank! One day, Drivers ID, then next passport-day after that no need, they know you. ...The inconsistencies are what confuse us, are they not?!

[khwaibah]

As previously mentioned, when carrying a passport in thailand (or anywhere for that matter) there is a greater risk of losing/getting stolen. After the Malaysia plane that went missing it was noted that two of the passengers were travelling on passports stolen in thailand, and so they went on a tirade about this....now it looks like they have forgotten about this and opening up wider opportunities to have more passports stolen as opposed to solving the issue. TIT they will do as they please and to be honest if we are not happy how they run things we can either 1) accept it, or 2) move on.

 

To Thai Visa - Does this mean the THB2,000 fine mentioned a few days ago has now increased to THB20,000?

 

 

"He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 and jailed for up to two years."

[moe666]

I feel for the poor Thai officials they get the crap taken out of them for not enforceing the rules and when they do they get the crap taken out of them. I think a few of the posters here are having a change of life, get your T checked and go on hormone therapy it will work wonders

[Issangeorge]

I also don't see Thailands problem either.  Out of that 70,000, how many are a burden to the state?  Do they pay them unemployment benefit? Do they have to house them? Do they have to pay their medical fees?
 
The answer to all of the above is NO.  Some people overstay here because they want to make a life here with their Thai girlfriend or wife.  But because Thailand has so many stupid visa laws and makes it so difficult to stay here long term, some are forced to bend the rules.
 
I would be happy if Thailand was dragged kicking and screaming into the 19th century let alone the 21st!
(oh and for the, record I work here and am on a 2 year BOI visa/work permit)

Thailand has some of the easiest visa laws of any country. Try getting a visa to retire or live in a western country for under $100 and proof of a relative small income.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[phantomfiddler]

The message is very clear ! They see us as purely a bearer of baht, and it is their duty to get as much of it as possible while making us feel as unwelcome as they can. Khun Anand was the only one smart enough to realise the tremendous input we make on this country, and make us feel welcome. It wasn,t so long ago that tourism was THE MAJOR source of incoming revenue, before automobile manufacture took over, but in terms of real money spent we are still probably the biggest baht supplier into the thai economy. 

[zoza]

 

Please, falang. Only money is accepted. YOU are not. 

 

Thailand is not a refugee camp for unemployable scofflaw farangs. 

 

Of course Thailand wants farang who have money to spend and who actually spend it. Are you so childish as to assume they would want foreigners here because their mere presence is an inspiration and joy to Thai nationals?

 

Most countries have ad campaigns trying to attract foreigners as tourists and in some cases as retirees because it puts money into the economy. And every country does whatever it can to boot out foreigners who don't follow the laws and who contribute nothing to the economy.

 

This depressing farang obsession with being loved wears thin pretty quickly. If you were such a beloved, valued member of Farang Land, why did your friends and neighbors ever let you leave?

 

              Isn't being a  farang enough??

 

I spoke with a  lawyer in Bangkok yesterday about a farang who has had his passport kept for nearly a month by

a visa company, because of their actions he is now on overstay he has asked for his passport back but says they just keep telling him lies,the lawyer informed me that the powers that be are not interested in who  done what or

who caused the overstay, and the best course of action was to pay the police to get his passport back, as the police

were not interested if not paid. this bloke is ten years married has supported three thai kids for that period and I'm told has never had a problem in thailand before.

         scofflaw farangs, want to be loved? he probably is already,    

[RPCVguy]

In before the 29 pages of "but my case is different than the hundreds of others asking about the same thing with the same details as me" posts that are sure to follow.

 

Of those 70k over-stayers last year (and 30k so far this year) I wonder how many are for over-stays of less than 2-3 days ? TAT claims 26.7 million tourist arrivals in 2013, so 70,000 over-stayers would represent about .0026% of that total (a quarter of 1% of the total). Doesn't seem quite the massive problem requiring draconian measures as it sounded before.

 

Maybe already commented upon between this early post and now... the system of counting the first day as gone as of the moment of arrival is sure to cause a conflict with many foreigners who would count it as 24 hours after arrival. A 30-day visa is really only valid for 29 days after arrival. (etc., etc.)
Same for 90-day reports and so much else. It is a cultural inconsistency between ways of counting time. My wife has a birthday in December, but she cites that future birth-date as her age as of each January first.

[Zonka]

 

 

 

Sad how the farang fear of losing face seems to take over their lives.

Arent' you Thai?

 

 

 You wasted your 59th post on this comment ? Dude .......

 

Why is it a waste? im asking a question - is he/she Thai

[Zonka]

 

I also don't see Thailands problem either.  Out of that 70,000, how many are a burden to the state?  Do they pay them unemployment benefit? Do they have to house them? Do they have to pay their medical fees?
 
The answer to all of the above is NO.  Some people overstay here because they want to make a life here with their Thai girlfriend or wife.  But because Thailand has so many stupid visa laws and makes it so difficult to stay here long term, some are forced to bend the rules.
 
I would be happy if Thailand was dragged kicking and screaming into the 19th century let alone the 21st!
(oh and for the, record I work here and am on a 2 year BOI visa/work permit)

Thailand has some of the easiest visa laws of any country. Try getting a visa to retire or live in a western country for under $100 and proof of a relative small income.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 6 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

Go to any European country!

[TonyChiangMai]

 

 

im actually looking forward to tomorrows press release as this is getting more stupid by the day...I can feel a huge clarification (U TURN) about to arrive

 

I don't think so, things are about to get worse.
 

 

They are for teachers!

 

If you don't have Ed. after your degree title, it's getting harder and harder to get a teaching cert - and thus, a work permit.

 

You can have a Master's degree... but if it's a MA or MSc you're now doomed. Has to be a B.Ed or M.Ed. to get a teaching licence now!

 

<deleted>.

 

There is a way to get that, but involves money and effort. UniTEFL in Chiang Mai do an online course to convert you and then you can get your real license.

[farangx]

The penalties are absolutely no big deal. Why overstay in the very first place.

[Deacon Bell]

He added that starting from August 29, foreigners who failed to produce their passports would be fined up to Bt20,000 and jailed for up to two years.

 

 

 

 

[godden]

70,000 overstayers in one year. That puts things into perspective somewhat! Good riddance to the beach bum pot head scum bags that give the law abiding visa legal folk a bad name!

at last iv'e met the man who never made a mistake.

[brewsterbudgen]

I think this clarifies yesterday's very unclear message from Hua Hin Immigration and, in regard to producing your passport, is nothing new. The new clarification just says failure to produce a passport, which I read as not having a passport - i.e. the individual is unable to produce a passport because he/she doesn't have one.

I have faith that a decent copy, showing the ID page and visa/extension stamp will be enough for a police check.

[sumrit]

I believe the passport carrying allows for a photocopy to be carried AS LONG AS it is a certified copy (my guess is getting it stamped on entry at Immigration).  Anyone familiar with what qualifies as certified?

 

That was the original understanding, but:

 

HUA HIN:-- Following yesterday’s news regarding the requirement for foreigners in Thailand to carry ID with them at all times, Thaivisa.com and local Immigration offices have been inundated with messages and comments from foreigners concerned about how they may be affected by this news.

 

In order to seek fruther clarification about this, Thaivisa.com has today met with Pol.Col. Thanasak Vongluekiat, Superintendent of Prachuap Khirikhan and Phetchaburi Immigration.

 

Pol.Col. Thanasak confirmed the following:

 

1. By law, all tourists and expats nationwide are required to carry their original passports with them at all times. There is no exception to this. Failure to carry your original passport may result in a 2,000 THB fine. The reason behind this is that Immigration needs to keep track of overstayers and foreign criminals who may be staying illegally in the country.

 

2. The information provided at an Immigration meeting yesterday was unclear. The correct information, which has always been the case, is that no other forms of identification are acceptable. This includes any other form of photo ID, such as a Thai/foreign driving license or a photocopy of your passport.

 

3. Immigration does not provide any kind of ‘stamp’ verification on a photocopy of a passport as announced at the meeting yesterday. Therefore, you are required to keep your original passport with you at all times as per point #1 above.

 

 

It also appears that, in order to stop people from preferring to pay the fine instead of carrying their passport, the fine will now be increased to 20,000 baht. Will those people still be happy to pay the fine instead of carrying their passports now?

 

I've lived here for about ten years now and I don't like the idea of carrying my passport. My Thai driving licence has always been acceptable in the past but, at 20,000 baht a time for not carrying it, I've taken my passport out of the safe and will start carrying it.

 

If everybody were to abide by the visa rules we wouldn't be in this situation now. But instead this and other forums are littered with questions like 'how to stay permanently on a tourist visa', 'what border posts are friendly and will issue continual visa exempts', 'which local consulates will issue visas without asking too many questions', 'how can I get an ED visa in order to stay in Thailand', etc, etc. Every single person asking this type of question is doing so because they don't want to abide by Thailand's visa regulations.

 

It's not just the people staying here illegally that's caused us problems, every single person who has given advise on this forum on how somebody can extend their stay here without applying for the correct type of visa has also contributed to this situation we now find ourselves in.  

[membob]

Not sure why people are getting up in arms about these "new" rules.

Firstly they are just enforcing what has been in place for years.

Secondly this banning rule was announced over a month ago.

Current overstayers have had/got 3 months to sort themselves out.

[Rob8891]

This country is becoming a police state.  Carrying a passport at all times for an EXPAT is ridiculous especially since many of us have real Thai driver's licenses which are just as good as a passport.  It is definitely time to head home.

 

 

"as good as a passport"?????        Since when does a licence carry details of your visa staus, validity of your travel document (ie passport) etc.  It merely has your photo and your (alleged) address in Thailand.

 

Come on, do try to post sense, eh?

 

"It is definitely time to head home".....ah, you did say something sensible.
 

[Artisi]

 

 

Please, falang. Only money is accepted. YOU are not. 

 

Thailand is not a refugee camp for unemployable scofflaw farangs. 

 

Of course Thailand wants farang who have money to spend and who actually spend it. Are you so childish as to assume they would want foreigners here because their mere presence is an inspiration and joy to Thai nationals?

 

Most countries have ad campaigns trying to attract foreigners as tourists and in some cases as retirees because it puts money into the economy. And every country does whatever it can to boot out foreigners who don't follow the laws and who contribute nothing to the economy.

 

This depressing farang obsession with being loved wears thin pretty quickly. If you were such a beloved, valued member of Farang Land, why did your friends and neighbors ever let you leave?

 

              Isn't being a  farang enough??

 

I spoke with a  lawyer in Bangkok yesterday about a farang who has had his passport kept for nearly a month by

a visa company, because of their actions he is now on overstay he has asked for his passport back but says they just keep telling him lies,the lawyer informed me that the powers that be are not interested in who  done what or

who caused the overstay, and the best course of action was to pay the police to get his passport back, as the police

were not interested if not paid. this bloke is ten years married has supported three thai kids for that period and I'm told has never had a problem in thailand before.

         scofflaw farangs, want to be loved? he probably is already,    

 

 

Why would you used a "visa company" - trying to circumvent the system? Seems like well deserved poetic justice.

[slygeeza]

70,000 overstayers in one year. That puts things into perspective somewhat! Good riddance to the beach bum pot head scum bags that give the law abiding visa legal folk a bad name!

 

don't worry, I will be here for a while yet, not all of us beach bums are overstayers so your name shall remain tarnished, get used to it

Edited July 31, 2014 by slygeeza

[Headgame]

Travelled the world and NEVER carried my passport with me when I was out and about on a daily basis. Zero issues.

Completely understand a requirement to produce some form of ID, such as a copy of your passport or digital records on my phone with a requirement to "produce" the original in 24 - 48 hours. Hopefully that will be the policy. 

Otherwise, I will make the adjustment and start carrying my passport with me. A major PITA but personally, I just don't want the potential of any hassles with the BIB or army. 

[Mario2008]

There is no 20,000 baht fine or 2 year in jail regulation. What is quoted is the rule regarding ovrstay, which is punishable with a fine of up to 20,000 baht and/or a jailterm of up to two years.

 

Failure to carry a passport is reason to hold someone to establish his/her identity and determine ones status in the country, according to the immigration Act. That is a right immigration has.and also the reason they do not have to accept a drivers licence or such and can insist on a passport in case of a foreigner.

 

There is a general requiremnt for an ID, but i understand you must be able to produce it within a reasonable time and than no fine will be levied.

 

 

[Horton Jones]

1) The LONG overstay crackdown does make sense. But surely there will be "grace" (for which the Thai's are at times known for) period for those who for some situation miss by a few days?

 

2) 20,000b fine or JAIL for not carrying a passport on you? For non tourists who live here properly, seems rather ridiculous. What is next, a yellow star to wear on one's arm?

 

3) The way I understand it, the HOST (hotel or landlord) is the one responsible for registering the place a foreigner stays. Has this changed? Maybe someday they'll hand you a micro-chip in a card (or, "this won't hurt a bit!", snip it under your skin) and then they can track foreigners wherever they go! (Oops, I've just given a welcomed idea?)

 

4) As one who has lived in northern Thailand for four years, I've basically seen a friendly attitude from the police and military. Hardly ever been stopped at the many police checkpoints, the exception being a few occasions when I had an Asian person with me. They see a Farang? Wave 'em through and "have a nice day".  Basically has seemed like we have some "Puyai" status, nice! 

 

5) Thailand is quite behind the region, which is quite behind other regions, in English language fluency. I have met school kids who can seemingly only repeat, "I am fine, and you?" and I've even met University graduates with whom I can have only a halting conversation with, and then ask, "What was your major at Uni.?"  ENGLISH of course! So... why is this? One huge reason is lack of NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKING TEACHERS.  So, what is this BS about advanced degrees needed? At this point they need any farang passing a background check with lips that can move! Don't they realize anyone with an advanced degree from the West would be making only 20% here of what they could make back home, and also less than surrounding Asean countries? As long as there is a background check, they need to OPEN the gates, not restrict them!

 

6) In spite of the apparently insatiable need for bureaucracy, bureaucrats, office workers, long lines and reams of paperwork, I still hold out that Thailand is a gracious place, the land of Smile (and Happiness, too, woohoo!), and that these issues will settle down to once again make visiting or living in Thailand a great experience for foreigners. With todays fast-travelling news via websites, social media, and word-of-mouth, one could say there is potential for a marked (and monetary) decrease in visitors -- and international respect -- if this tightening goes too far.

[smedly]

looks like a massive prison building scheme is about to be unveiled ...most prob with Chinese money

 

 

failing to produce their passport does not mean if you are stopped somewhere while out shopping or in a bar - it literally means "not producing a passport" to identify yourself, could be after arrest and while waiting at a police station, I don't and won't carry my passport but it is a simple phone call and 10min later I will have it in my hand.

 

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this, here is an example of how this could be applied, if Thailand is asked to arrest a criminal on the run from another country and they refuse to identify themselves normally by showing a passport

 

or

 

Someone on a lengthy overstay decides their best course of action is to hide their identity and refuse to show a passport - someone who refuses to identify themselves can be very difficult to deal with especially if they have something to hide - perhaps the threat of 2 years in a Thai prison may persuade them to reveal all and if they refuse after 2 years in jail it will be followed by another 2 years - the choice is simple

[brewsterbudgen]

There is no 20,000 baht fine or 2 year in jail regulation. What is quoted is the rule regarding ovrstay, which is punishable with a fine of up to 20,000 baht and/or a jailterm of up to two years.
 
Failure to carry a passport is reason to hold someone to establish his/her identity and determine ones status in the country, according to the immigration Act. That is a right immigration has.and also the reason they do not have to accept a drivers licence or such and can insist on a passport in case of a foreigner.
 
There is a general requiremnt for an ID, but i understand you must be able to produce it within a reasonable time and than no fine will be levied.

Thanks. So really a lot of fuss about nothing, unless you're an over-stayer!

[shaurene]

20k baht fine if i dont show my passport or 2 years in jail? do they want tourists to come to thailand? also read something about if you come here and first u stay in bangkok and u write the adress in bkk on the arrival card if u want to go to another city you have to go to an immigration office and fill out a form? ridiculous usually i come to bkk then go to my partners house in ubon then go to phuket or samui or whereever then back to bkk before leaving that means id have to visit an immigration office 3 or 4 times? lol

I am sure it stated to the local police station to report. Not immigration.

[Gunna]

Not all overstay is intentional. Thailand is one of only two places I've ever overstayed a tourist visa. I miscalculated the 30 days and ended up leaving a day late; it was an honest mistake. Sensibly, that wouldn't cause me any more problems than it did when I hit immigration on that overstay. My other overstay was in Bahrain (they issued a 1-day visa rather than a 3-day visa by mistake) and that was dealt with perfectly; "You have a British passport so we don't care. Have a safe trip."

 

If you've overstayed a visa by 90 days or more; you're taking the piss. There's nothing else to be said. No country in the world looks the other way on that. Try it in China and enjoy a healthy amount of jail time to go with that overstay. And so on... Anyone complaining about this crackdown is delusional; enforcement of holding a valid visa is normal for any country. It's not like the Thai authorities haven't been warning people it was going to happen. They gave people a chance to sort their shit out and get a visa before this all kicked off...

You don't have to calculate 30 days as the arrival immigration stamp tells you the exact date you are admitted to.

I would have thought that as it is straight forward to get a visa extension, over staying by more than a few days is taking the piss.

 

Mostly Immigration is just enforcing the existing laws that it hasn't enforced before, and their main targets are those who work illegal and the really long term overstayers.

 

People doing a visa run every 15 days and working illegally is taking the piss and those are the ones they want to be rid of and ban from returning along with those too lazy or stupid to get a retirement visa or other long stay visa or buying tourist 60 day extendable tourist visas before they arrive.