No need to worry says Bangkok Immigration Commander

[Pattaya46]

// that I have said THIS INFORMATION IS COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE COMMISSIONER. The head of immigration.

What's next from you? //

Hi Scott.

Could I just make the suggestion that, when you will have another such meeting with high ranked people from Immigration, you suggest them that any new rule, or any change of rule, should be publish on their official site, as they did for the overstay here : http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/popup_anounce.html ?

Main part of recent problems and panic come from the fact we don't know if these "news" are just rumours or real rules. The fact that some officer in a small border said "some news" should not be presented as a "new official national rule" as it's has been the case on ThaiVisa.

We can't trust what is said on ThaiVisa, so we need a site we can trust: What could be better than immigration.go.th ?

PS: Thank for you participation here Scott

Edited July 31, 2014 by Pattaya46

[Time Traveller]

The problem is not the you must carry this document/don't carry this document rules. The problem is that the rules and regulations change ALL THE TIME.

How is any law abiding person meant to stay compliant with the immigration law? Do they want us to check with immigration every day before we leave the house just to see if there were any overnight changes in the rules?

In the last 2 weeks we've had almost daily announcements on:

overstays, tourist visa, visa waivers, education visas, 90 day reporting, house master reporting, carrying passports/ID

In any other place that has the audacity to call itself a country, they announce changes in advance. Usually several months and advertise widely. In Thailand, new regulations are spread by rumors from some comment made by an obscure immigration or police official in some province.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This is the second time in just a few months that online scaremongering has proved to be unfounded; the earlier being the old "THB 800k each" that proved equally false while peddled as fact re retirement extensions involving foreign spouse dependants. Can I suggest that a little due diligence be applied from on high before going for the hat trick?

There have been a series of ultimately false/wrong "news" reports posted here on supposed Immigration policy changes over the years. And those have often been on sensitive topics that have caused a lot of concern and fear and worry on the part of readers here.

In those cases, if memory serves, usually it's been a ThaiVisa report, as opposed to something picked up from the traditional news sources. And, the TV reports that ultimately proved false typically have contained no direct quotes or even often any paraphrase from any named Immigration official.

Such was certainly the case, once again, the other day with the carry your passports news report, at least as regards the carry your passport parts of it supposedly to become a nationwide policy -- which now with today's thread it clearly is NOT.

It's certainly not beyond Thai Immigration to issue vague or unclear policies and statements, including with the potential of meanings getting lost in translation from Thai to English. But in these various false news report cases that have occurred over time, I suspect something else is afoot.

The latest example from Tuesday (just repeating to be clear -- a report that as of today was officially denied by Thai Immigration, at least as regards the nationwide enforcement part):

HUA HIN: -- [thaivisa.com] Hua Hin Immigration is from today enforcing the existing rule that foreigners are required to carry a valid photo ID at all times.

At a meeting with Hua Hin Immigration and municipality, Thaivisa.com was informed of the news about the immediate enforcement regarding the requirements for foreigners - both tourists and expats - to carry valid photo ID at all times. Thaivisa has learned that Immigration is likely to enforce this nationwide.

Perhaps someone in HH Immigration did actually say they thought the passports policy was going to be enforced nationwide, although no one in the article is quoted saying so. But even if someone at HH Immigration did say such a thing, that's a long way off from confirming that the national or Bangkok Immigration authorities are saying the same thing.

[denby45]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

THE END!!!

Franky do you ever do any work. I thought you were 28/28 and currently offshore. You seem to spend a lot of time here. Are there any jobs going so I can join you. LOL

[denby45]

I always have and always will carry a copy of my passport with me when I am in Thailand. It's not to show the authorities, it's so I can remember who I am when I get too elephant's trunk.

[peergin]

To Deputy Commander and Police Colonel Voravat Amornvivat:

Thank you, Sir!

P.S. Do ALL of the law enforcement agencies throughout the country know?

[AYJAYDEE]

Well, this makes the most sense. If you are in a situation where you need to present ID, you can go back to your house, apt or hotel and produce it. Fair enough.

I think it was just the wording of the other announcements that made it sound so draconian. Obviously, if there is an issue, you have to present your documents just like you would anywhere else, as it should be.

Like I said, they would prefer someone brings the passport to wherever you're located. This is what I was told. Obviously it isn't always possible but personally, if I don't have my passport, it will be somewhere the wife can go get it and easily find it.

and if she's not home? you wait in jail?

[ScottMallon]

Well, this makes the most sense. If you are in a situation where you need to present ID, you can go back to your house, apt or hotel and produce it. Fair enough.

I think it was just the wording of the other announcements that made it sound so draconian. Obviously, if there is an issue, you have to present your documents just like you would anywhere else, as it should be.

Like I said, they would prefer someone brings the passport to wherever you're located. This is what I was told. Obviously it isn't always possible but personally, if I don't have my passport, it will be somewhere the wife can go get it and easily find it.

and if she's not home? you wait in jail?

I call one of my kids, I call my wife's cousin who lives with us, or I call the neighbor. If that doesn't work, I'll ask the police to take me home to get my passport. If that doesn't work, I'll sit in jail. Since I have a passport, and I know it will eventually be brought to me, sitting in the pokey for a few hours is not really a big deal.

[ScottMallon]

// that I have said THIS INFORMATION IS COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE COMMISSIONER. The head of immigration.

What's next from you? //

Hi Scott.

Could I just make the suggestion that, when you will have another such meeting with high ranked people from Immigration, you suggest them that any new rule, or any change of rule, should be publish on their official site, as they did for the overstay here : http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/popup_anounce.html ?

Main part of recent problems and panic come from the fact we don't know if these "news" are just rumours or real rules. The fact that some officer in a small border said "some news" should not be presented as a "new official national rule" as it's has been the case on ThaiVisa.

We can't trust what is said on ThaiVisa, so we need a site we can trust: What could be better than immigration.go.th ?

PS: Thank for you participation here Scott

I will see what they say about their posting announcements on the Bangkok site.

If there is anything else anyone wants me to ask, if enough of the same questions are sent to me, I'll ask. Otherwise, no guarantees.

As far as the "news" being rumors or real, I can only control what I write and say and if it relates to immigration. I just write/verbalize what they tell me. Immigration contacted me. I did not contact them. I would much rather be fishing or doing a photo project instead of dealing with immigration issues but I felt an obligation to get this information out for the good of the expat community. With regards to ThaiVisa, what I know in my conversations with George is that he is adamant about confirming information as opposed to accepting secondhand info. Which is as it should be.

I have already said that immigration is attempting to standardize the way their policies are applied around the country. I'm sure it will take time to do this. The top brass has said this is something they're working on, and that's what I've said several times. I personally believe them but that's neither here nor there. For the time being, I would sit back, listen carefully to what is being said, and do what is required. If you're unsure or uncomfortable, do what puts you in the safest place to avoid trouble. For example, carry your passport at all times.

All that Thai Visa and I can do is present the information given to us. If the laws are changed every other day, that's what gets reported. If I am presented with fact, then it's stated as fact. If I'm giving an opinion, I have no problem stating this either.

I'm not here for douche bags to take their frustration out on. I live a mellow, carefree life, and I don't have a care in the world other than making sure my kids are healthy, wealthy and wise. Just because some here don't have their act together or perhaps are in an unusual predicament doesn't mean it's my responsibility to wipe their fannies—I will, however, show them the bum gun.

If you have serious problems with these immigration issues, maybe you do not qualify to stay here. Maybe you have to figure out another way to stay here. Maybe you need to go home for a short time to regroup. Some people may not want to do this but have no choice as they're out of options. That's life.

[ScottMallon]

Deputy Commander Voravat also said that for expats living here, a Thai driving license or photocopy of your passport can be used as a form of identification.

However, if Immigration Police suspect an individual to be overstaying in Thailand or being involved in illegal activity, then the individual would be required to produce their original passport promptly.

Illegal activity can be a wide range. Normally when they ask you for your passport they will suspect you of illegal activity. So yes you should have your passport on you all the time as stated in the original report.

“Making all foreigners in Thailand carry their original passports with them would be very difficult.”

“It’s about being reasonable and using common sense”

“But if we think a foreigner is involved in illegal activity then we will of course need to see their original passport, this is normal”, said Deputy Commander Voravat.

We all know what the understanding of common sense is in Thailand, isn't it ? So I actually see not a difference with the original report, only they try to sweeten it a little to the outside world.

Illegal activity - in 20 years here, I have been asked to produce my passport once and this is after I bashed some drunken Danish twit for picking a fight with me. Of course, immigration wanted to see my passport after the incident, I didn't have it, and my wife brought it to them. Maybe I was lucky but considering I had to post 30K baht for bail, I would have considered myself luckier had I been asked for my passport prior to getting in trouble.

So since this is Thailand, and according to your absolutely stellar logic, common sense is some theory completely foreign to Thais, WHAT IS THE ANSWER then? Should Thai immigration just plod along, never trying to change things for the better because it might involve common sense?

Talk about resistance to change. None of these rules have affected me one bit. Nor have they affected any of my friends. Just what is the problem? If it makes you feel better, carry your passport at all times. Is it that difficult for you? Or should the rules be bent to suit your needs?

[bangon04]

“It’s about being reasonable and using common sense”

has the HuaHin office spokesperson been informed?

Edited July 31, 2014 by bangon04

[DrTuner]

The patent answer to the ID problem would be issuing temporary IDs for foreigners. Which government body does the Thai ones ?

The hardware would be the same as for the driving licenses. Sit for a photo-op and wait until the printer spews the card out, hand in $$$. Not rocket science.

Edited July 31, 2014 by DrTuner

[MJCM]

The patent answer to the ID problem would be issuing temporary IDs for foreigners. Which government body does the Thai ones ?

The hardware would be the same as for the driving licenses. Sit for a photo-op and wait until the printer spews the card out, hand in $$$. Not rocket science.

+1, I think that also will be MOI (and NO I dont mean the Bad word (which could be written that way) or the French one)

Edit 1: and it could may be done will getting your new extension of stay ?

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

Edited July 31, 2014 by MJCM

[ScottMallon]

The patent answer to the ID problem would be issuing temporary IDs for foreigners. Which government body does the Thai ones ?

The hardware would be the same as for the driving licenses. Sit for a photo-op and wait until the printer spews the card out, hand in $$$. Not rocket science.

Foreigners already have an ID card - it's called their passports. Why would the Thai government make temporary cards for our convenience when they can do nothing and accomplish the same thing?

[DrTuner]

Edit 1: and it could may be done will getting your new extension of stay ?

The obvious place for granting temporary IDs would be the Immigration Office. It's usual to run to the next counter for a re-entry permit after getting an extension, the ID booth would be next stop. If you don't want an ID, just carry the passport then. It does seem very logical, the passport would be linked to the ID, effectively becoming the coveted "certified copy". And a nice little earner for the Immigration, too. Seems like a Win-Win situation.

[MJCM]

Removed

Edited July 31, 2014 by MJCM

[DrTuner]

Foreigners already have an ID card - it's called their passports. Why would the Thai government make temporary cards for our convenience when they can do nothing and accomplish the same thing?

$$$. The card would cost a bit.

[AYJAYDEE]

The patent answer to the ID problem would be issuing temporary IDs for foreigners. Which government body does the Thai ones ?

The hardware would be the same as for the driving licenses. Sit for a photo-op and wait until the printer spews the card out, hand in $$$. Not rocket science.

what is the difference between carrying a passport copy and a temporary id?

[MJCM]

Sorry misread my bad !

Edited July 31, 2014 by MJCM

[peergin]

// that I have said THIS INFORMATION IS COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE COMMISSIONER. The head of immigration.

What's next from you? //

Hi Scott.

Could I just make the suggestion that, when you will have another such meeting with high ranked people from Immigration, you suggest them that any new rule, or any change of rule, should be publish on their official site, as they did for the overstay here : http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/popup_anounce.html ?

Main part of recent problems and panic come from the fact we don't know if these "news" are just rumours or real rules. The fact that some officer in a small border said "some news" should not be presented as a "new official national rule" as it's has been the case on ThaiVisa.

We can't trust what is said on ThaiVisa, so we need a site we can trust: What could be better than immigration.go.th ?

PS: Thank for you participation here Scott

I will see what they say about their posting announcements on the Bangkok site.

If there is anything else anyone wants me to ask, if enough of the same questions are sent to me, I'll ask. Otherwise, no guarantees.

As far as the "news" being rumors or real, I can only control what I write and say and if it relates to immigration. I just write/verbalize what they tell me. Immigration contacted me. I did not contact them. I would much rather be fishing or doing a photo project instead of dealing with immigration issues but I felt an obligation to get this information out for the good of the expat community. With regards to ThaiVisa, what I know in my conversations with George is that he is adamant about confirming information as opposed to accepting secondhand info. Which is as it should be.

I have already said that immigration is attempting to standardize the way their policies are applied around the country. I'm sure it will take time to do this. The top brass has said this is something they're working on, and that's what I've said several times. I personally believe them but that's neither here nor there. For the time being, I would sit back, listen carefully to what is being said, and do what is required. If you're unsure or uncomfortable, do what puts you in the safest place to avoid trouble. For example, carry your passport at all times.

All that Thai Visa and I can do is present the information given to us. If the laws are changed every other day, that's what gets reported. If I am presented with fact, then it's stated as fact. If I'm giving an opinion, I have no problem stating this either.

I'm not here for douche bags to take their frustration out on. I live a mellow, carefree life, and I don't have a care in the world other than making sure my kids are healthy, wealthy and wise. Just because some here don't have their act together or perhaps are in an unusual predicament doesn't mean it's my responsibility to wipe their fannies—I will, however, show them the bum gun.

If you have serious problems with these immigration issues, maybe you do not qualify to stay here. Maybe you have to figure out another way to stay here. Maybe you need to go home for a short time to regroup. Some people may not want to do this but have no choice as they're out of options. That's life.

I have saved Police Colonel Voravat Amornvivat's explanation and will keep a copy in my car. I think everybody should do that. However, would it be possible to get a Thai version? That would facilitate matters greatly if people are stopped by police. At least for the moment, because I read that it will take time before all of the law enforcement agencies and officers can be informed.

[DrTuner]

The patent answer to the ID problem would be issuing temporary IDs for foreigners. Which government body does the Thai ones ?

The hardware would be the same as for the driving licenses. Sit for a photo-op and wait until the printer spews the card out, hand in $$$. Not rocket science.

what is the difference between carrying a passport copy and a temporary id?

Size & lamination & certification. The temporary id would be a plastic card, weatherproof and an official document. Easy to carry with you and easy to replace if somebody nicks it (and useless to the thieves). Outside the form factor, they would be practically identical. The period of validity for the ID card would end at the same time as the period of permission to stay when the card was applied for. Meaning it would show your immigration status right there on top of the card for everybody to see.

[ScottMallon]

Foreigners already have an ID card - it's called their passports. Why would the Thai government make temporary cards for our convenience when they can do nothing and accomplish the same thing?

$$$. The card would cost a bit.

You may be right, I don't know. But trying to think like a Thai, if that's possible, I tend to think that foreigners already have ID cards in their passports and passport copies. Another card means more work and an initial approval of funds. Prior to getting the funds approved, there would need to be some sort of report done showing how the card would be profitable and worthwhile. It's a long-term project, if anything, and the more of a pain it is to get it approved and implemented, the less chance I see in it happening. I think it could happen BUT it is far easier to just let the foreigners carry their passports,

Money might motivate the government to do a card, but I think it would work best if it were for expats as opposed to tourists. Maybe only those with non-immigrant O, O-A, and B visas could be eligible. Tourists come and go and it might be for more of a hassle than just dealing with expats.

For the record, I mail my 90-day report in. The only time I go to immigration is when I absolutely have to go.

Edited July 31, 2014 by ScottMallon

[joecoolfrog]

Thanks for the clarification , I have no issues in presenting my passport on request. My issue was the idea of physicaly having to carry it at all times , those defending that position are seriously anal.

[AYJAYDEE]

Edit 1: and it could may be done will getting your new extension of stay ?

The obvious place for granting temporary IDs would be the Immigration Office. It's usual to run to the next counter for a re-entry permit after getting an extension, the ID booth would be next stop. If you don't want an ID, just carry the passport then. It does seem very logical, the passport would be linked to the ID, effectively becoming the coveted "certified copy". And a nice little earner for the Immigration, too. Seems like a Win-Win situation.

25 million tourists a year. all going to a local immigration office for a temporary ID??

[DrTuner]

Foreigners already have an ID card - it's called their passports. Why would the Thai government make temporary cards for our convenience when they can do nothing and accomplish the same thing?

$$$. The card would cost a bit.

You may be right, I don't know. But trying to think like a Thai, if that's possible, I tend to think that foreigners already have ID cards in their passports and passport copies. Another card means more work and an initial approval of funds. Prior to getting the funds approved, there would need to be some sort of report done showing how the card would be profitable and worthwhile. It's a long-term project, if anything, and the more of a pain it is to get it approved and implemented, the less chance I see in it happening. I think it could happen BUT it is far easier to just let the foreigners carry their passports,

Money might motivate the government to do a card, but I think it would work best if it were for expats as opposed to tourists. Maybe only those with non-immigrant O, O-A, and B visas could be eligible. Tourists come and go and it might be for more of a hassle than just dealing with expats.

For the record, I mail my 90-day report in. The only time I go to immigration is when I absolutely have to go.

If the Immigration is thinking long-term, a card like this could be easily included in modernizing the IT infrastructure they have.

I agree about tourists, they wouldn't likely bother, but then they could continue using their passports. Unless it was a service offered right after the immigration checks at points of entry into Thailand. Or even integrated into the IT automatically, like at swampy "I have your picture and data already, you want to buy an ID ?". Press of a button and receipt to you, which you would use to pick up your ID and pay up at a booth after the immigration checkup. The method is familiar to those who have been to tourist traps here, I've got a few plates with my mug printed on them.

Ok I know. Too futuristic But if they are indeed reading TVF, that's my 0.02. You might mention it briefly in your chats with the immigration, if you like.

[DrTuner]

Edit 1: and it could may be done will getting your new extension of stay ?

The obvious place for granting temporary IDs would be the Immigration Office. It's usual to run to the next counter for a re-entry permit after getting an extension, the ID booth would be next stop. If you don't want an ID, just carry the passport then. It does seem very logical, the passport would be linked to the ID, effectively becoming the coveted "certified copy". And a nice little earner for the Immigration, too. Seems like a Win-Win situation.

25 million tourists a year. all going to a local immigration office for a temporary ID??

Those who want one, or continue to carry passport. Or when optimized like in my post above.

25M * ... let's say 500b is .. 12.5B baht

Edited July 31, 2014 by DrTuner

[ScottMallon]

// that I have said THIS INFORMATION IS COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE COMMISSIONER. The head of immigration.

What's next from you? //

Hi Scott.

Could I just make the suggestion that, when you will have another such meeting with high ranked people from Immigration, you suggest them that any new rule, or any change of rule, should be publish on their official site, as they did for the overstay here : http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/popup_anounce.html ?

Main part of recent problems and panic come from the fact we don't know if these "news" are just rumours or real rules. The fact that some officer in a small border said "some news" should not be presented as a "new official national rule" as it's has been the case on ThaiVisa.

We can't trust what is said on ThaiVisa, so we need a site we can trust: What could be better than immigration.go.th ?

PS: Thank for you participation here Scott

I will see what they say about their posting announcements on the Bangkok site.

If there is anything else anyone wants me to ask, if enough of the same questions are sent to me, I'll ask. Otherwise, no guarantees.

As far as the "news" being rumors or real, I can only control what I write and say and if it relates to immigration. I just write/verbalize what they tell me. Immigration contacted me. I did not contact them. I would much rather be fishing or doing a photo project instead of dealing with immigration issues but I felt an obligation to get this information out for the good of the expat community. With regards to ThaiVisa, what I know in my conversations with George is that he is adamant about confirming information as opposed to accepting secondhand info. Which is as it should be.

I have already said that immigration is attempting to standardize the way their policies are applied around the country. I'm sure it will take time to do this. The top brass has said this is something they're working on, and that's what I've said several times. I personally believe them but that's neither here nor there. For the time being, I would sit back, listen carefully to what is being said, and do what is required. If you're unsure or uncomfortable, do what puts you in the safest place to avoid trouble. For example, carry your passport at all times.

All that Thai Visa and I can do is present the information given to us. If the laws are changed every other day, that's what gets reported. If I am presented with fact, then it's stated as fact. If I'm giving an opinion, I have no problem stating this either.

I'm not here for douche bags to take their frustration out on. I live a mellow, carefree life, and I don't have a care in the world other than making sure my kids are healthy, wealthy and wise. Just because some here don't have their act together or perhaps are in an unusual predicament doesn't mean it's my responsibility to wipe their fannies—I will, however, show them the bum gun.

If you have serious problems with these immigration issues, maybe you do not qualify to stay here. Maybe you have to figure out another way to stay here. Maybe you need to go home for a short time to regroup. Some people may not want to do this but have no choice as they're out of options. That's life.

I have saved Police Colonel Voravat Amornvivat's explanation and will keep a copy in my car. I think everybody should do that. However, would it be possible to get a Thai version? That would facilitate matters greatly if people are stopped by police. At least for the moment, because I read that it will take time before all of the law enforcement agencies and officers can be informed.

Here's my suggestion—don't try to tell the police how to interpret the law or throw a news article in their face.

[AYJAYDEE]

Edit 1: and it could may be done will getting your new extension of stay ?

The obvious place for granting temporary IDs would be the Immigration Office. It's usual to run to the next counter for a re-entry permit after getting an extension, the ID booth would be next stop. If you don't want an ID, just carry the passport then. It does seem very logical, the passport would be linked to the ID, effectively becoming the coveted "certified copy". And a nice little earner for the Immigration, too. Seems like a Win-Win situation.

25 million tourists a year. all going to a local immigration office for a temporary ID??

Those who want one, or continue to carry passport. Or when optimized like in my post above.

25M * ... let's say 500b is .. 12.5B baht

well, seems to me that the copy of the passport is a far better solution for the 10 day beach holidayer and wiil save the government plenty of hassles and overcrowded immigration offices

[MJCM]

Edit 1: and it could may be done will getting your new extension of stay ?

The obvious place for granting temporary IDs would be the Immigration Office. It's usual to run to the next counter for a re-entry permit after getting an extension, the ID booth would be next stop. If you don't want an ID, just carry the passport then. It does seem very logical, the passport would be linked to the ID, effectively becoming the coveted "certified copy". And a nice little earner for the Immigration, too. Seems like a Win-Win situation.

25 million tourists a year. all going to a local immigration office for a temporary ID??

Those who want one, or continue to carry passport. Or when optimized like in my post above.

25M * ... let's say 500b is .. 12.5B baht

well, seems to me that the copy of the passport is a far better solution for the 10 day beach holidayer and wiil save the government plenty of hassles and overcrowded immigration offices

Agreed, but that temp id card idea, could be a good solution for us long stayers (on extensions of stay) as we already need to goto immigration at least once a year for renewal.

Sent from my iPad so Please excuse any typos

[DrTuner]

well, seems to me that the copy of the passport is a far better solution for the 10 day beach holidayer and wiil save the government plenty of hassles and overcrowded immigration offices

Sure, if it flies. The OP is about the copies working for now, but if they again decide to crack down on photoshopped copies, etc, then a card would be desirable. For expats it would replace carrying the drivers license. From the enforcement perspective a card would be better, even if they too can be copied at KSR.

A bar code linking to immigration's database would make it better, a busload of foreigners could be checked easily with a scanner. Come to think of it, so could the passport copies. Hmm. Another argument just for the sake of it, for other official business other than immigration such a card would clearly state the immigration status of the holder. Small bit of convenience.

Edited July 31, 2014 by DrTuner