Missionaries in CM - I hear ya knockin'...

[arunsakda]

Recently I had a knock on my door on a Saturday at 8AM.
I rushed up bleary eye in a towel and hung over, sure it must have been a FIRE or some dire emergency. God damn Jehovah's !

Seriously?

[Mapguy]

When I was in my early 30's 'Wicca' was receiving a lot of attention. My live-in girlfriend was the High Priestess of the local Wiccan coven, a very benign assembly of 'white' witches. Her group, almost entirely women in their mid to late 20's, would go down to the lake shore at midnight on Wiccan holidays (Mid-Summer's Eve, Solstice, Equinox, etc., ) take off their clothes and dance naked in the moonlight while chanting prayers to heal 'Mother Earth.' I don't know if it did any good, but it was fun to watch...

One day some Jehovah's Witnesses, two women in their 50's, came to the door wanting to tell me about their God. I wasn't doing anything important at the time and they seemed like nice people, and I figured I could tell them about my Gods too. All of them. (Truth be told, they really didn't want to hear about them...) We were sitting in the living room and they were really getting into their speeches (I was interested and they figured they had a live one,) when my girlfriend walked into the room, smiled at them nicely, but didn't say a word. She was wearing some sort of cloak thing, but nothing out of the ordinary. She proceeded to take out a piece of chalk and draw a large pentagram on the wooden floor, still not saying a word. Then she took five white candles and placed them at the points of the pentagram and one red candle in the middle, and lit them all... still just smiling nicely and not saying anything as we continued our chat, though the witnesses were giving each other odd looks. Then my girlfriend took off her cloak, and being bare ass naked underneath it, began dancing in and around the candles, chanting. (Still smiling nicely.) The Jehovah's Witnesses, with eyes like saucers, immediately got up and walked out the door. Although we saw them on the street going door to door every week, then never once came back to our door in the four years I lived in that house. Too bad, too, as I wanted to get their take on a new religion I was planning.

 

If this story is true --- and it is really too funny to be true --- then your girlfriend of those days had a very cynical ( if not cruel) social sense. Yes, I suppose the missionaries never rang your bell again.  On the other hand, I am not sure that I would have liked your old girlfriend.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Mapguy

[heybruce]

What if the hokey cokey really is what it's all about ...

 

Which brand of hokey cokey?  I'm holding out for the one that provides credible evidence it's the right one.
 

[mizztraveller]

What if the hokey cokey really is what it's all about ...

 
Which brand of hokey cokey?  I'm holding out for the one that provides credible evidence it's the right one.
 

Right or left. As long as you shake it all about!

[Pattszero]

 

 

What if the hokey cokey really is what it's all about ...

 
Which brand of hokey cokey?  I'm holding out for the one that provides credible evidence it's the right one.
 

Right or left. As long as you shake it all about!

 

 

Just for a second there I thought your avatar was doing it. 

 

I'm a bit disappointed now. 

[BillyBobThai]

I liked the part where you mentioned their most successful method of proselyltizing was what they called "Flirty Fishing" by the young female members of the sect.  This entailed the use of sexual attraction and intercourse to gain converts.

 

I would let them convert me at least once a week.

 

 

They would take off their clothes and dance naked in the moonlight while chanting prayers to heal 'Mother Earth.' I don't know if it did any good, but it was fun to watch...

 

Now that's the kind of religion I'm looking for.

Edited August 11, 2014 by BillyBobThai

[crusader79]

I liked the part where you mentioned their most successful method of proselyltizing was what they called "Flirty Fishing" by the young female members of the sect.  This entailed the use of sexual attraction and intercourse to gain converts.

 

I would let them convert me at least once a week.

 

I crossed paths with the Children of God in Hong Kong 30 years ago, when I was in my 20s.

 

A friend and I met two attractive HK Chinese girls, on the street, from what I remember, invited them for a drink and dinner, then took them home to our respective flats. They did not mention religion and the Children of God were unknown at that time, at least in HK. We were all just kids in our 20s, it seemed like normal fun.

 

She assured me she was on the pill, and we had sex (this was pre-AIDS). But at the moment of truth, if you get my drift, she yelled out, "Thank you, Jesus!" I said, erm, what? She then told me about the Children of God, and to my horror, explained that it would be up to Jesus whether we had created a new life.

 

I humored her through a highly stressful month and thank the gods she did not get pregnant. But the scandal broke soon afterwards, and I learned how close I'd come to disaster. The aim was/is not only to "create" new cult members, but to pull the fathers in through a sense of guilt and responsibility as well.

 

Of course from that point on I returned to the straight and narrow and never had unprotected sex with strange women again (cough).

 

 

 

[FolkGuitar]

 

If this story is true --- and it is really too funny to be true --- then your girlfriend of those days had a very cynical ( if not cruel) social sense. Yes, I suppose the missionaries never rang your bell again.  On the other hand, I am not sure that I would have liked your old girlfriend.

 

 

I assure you, quite true. She didn't like missionaries at all, didn't like what they stand for, didn't like their proselytizing, and thought of a rather clever way to insure that they never returned.  As many here have stated, she didn't want to be bothered again and again. As it turned out, her method was very effective. I was as surprised by it as were the Witnesses, but I probably enjoyed it more.  Her Wicca days were confined to her mid-twenties, spanning just a few years, as so often happens with minor religions and cults, and she went on to get her Ph.d in Classical Studies. An interesting woman. We are still in contact these 30 years later.

 

As I said before, I enjoy talking with 'some' of the missionaries, and have no problem with them knocking on the door. Some I'll chat with, others I just say 'thanks, but no thanks.'

 

But... (and this is NOT true)

Last week a couple of mice knocked on my door. They were both wearing white shirts, dark trousers, and had black plastic name tags on the pockets.

I opened the door and said 'hello,' to which they gave a big smile and one said "Hi! I'd like to tell you about my Cheeses!  

 

[wwest5829]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."
 
Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

 By me for one and I think you will find by a large proportion of the people here.
They should keep their cultural genocide in their own country.

I lived in the countryside in Kentucky and was only visited one time. I suggested that as a student of history I was always interested in discussing things, such as the background of various worldwide beliefs. When I started asking some questions, I think they figured I was a lost cause and departed.

[harrry]

I got caught in Australia once when I opened the door and two nuns were there.  Told them I was not interested as I was a Budhist and the older one said that is great, she lived for 25 years in Bangkok and learnt meditiation at various places here.they came back a couple of times and were always a pleasant 10 minutes but nott a word about the Catholic religion.

[ezzra]

My question is bigger than their, I wonder what kind of visa they are using to be able to work

at paddling religion? is it a special visa? can any one get one? do you need a WP for that?

[fredge45]

And then there are the Mormons... 

[hml367]

My question is bigger than their, I wonder what kind of visa they are using to be able to work

at paddling religion? is it a special visa? can any one get one? do you need a WP for that?

 

If your question is serious and not looking for something to argue about, and this is getting off the connection to Chiang Mai:

 

In the case of a missionary:

Criteria for Consideration

The alien:
(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).
(2) Must have been confirmed and requested by the Department of Religious Affairs or the Office
of National Buddhism.
(3) Must have been confirmed and requested by the particular religious organization

Documents to be submitted

1. Application form
2. Copy of applicant’s passport
3. Confirmation letter from the Department of Religious Affairs or the National Office of
Buddhism
4. Letter of confirmation and request for a temporary stay issued by the religious organization

Remarks

 

 

If you research Western missionaries in Thailand, you could find that they have a special consideration from long ago and they did, arguably, help the geographical area which is now known as Thailand.

 

I thank CMHomeboy78 for pointing me to a good book about this.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2014 by hml367

[NancyL]

We had a greenhouse/nursery business in the U.S. that we operated out of a 10-acre farmstead where we lived. One day when we weren't open to retail trade, a car pulled in while I was toward the back of the property working in one of the greenhouses. Hubby was upfront, near the house and closer to the car. I saw him go over to the driver's side. The whole time our dog, a 40 pound terrier mix was running around the car, yapping and jumping up, trying to see in the windows of the car. Normally, we'd pull her off and quiet her down when she did this (she was looking to see if there was another dog in the car, she hated other dogs) but I was surprised to see that Hubby didn't stop her and let her continue her jumping, yapping, and probably scratching the car's paint the entire time he talked to the car's driver.

It was a surprising move on his part. Often strangers drove into the farmstead. The area was thinly populated and he would have shown more courtesy to someone who ventured in to, say, ask directions if lost. Later, I asked Hubby what was going on and he explained that the people in the car were Jehovah Witnesses and they wanted to get out and talk with him. He let the dog continue to jump around. They then tried to make nice and ask the name of the dog and then what bred. Hubby said "she's a working dog". "Oh what does she do?" Answer: "She kills pests." He offered to show them the groundhog she'd just done in that he hadn't bothered to go collect out of the barn yet. They decided to leave.

Not as shocking as dancing naked in front of them, but it does go to show that they can be discouraged. (well, come to think about it the dog was dancing around wearing nothing but her collar) Edited August 12, 2014 by NancyL

[CMHomeboy78]

 

I liked the part where you mentioned their most successful method of proselyltizing was what they called "Flirty Fishing" by the young female members of the sect.  This entailed the use of sexual attraction and intercourse to gain converts.

 

I would let them convert me at least once a week.

 

I crossed paths with the Children of God in Hong Kong 30 years ago, when I was in my 20s.

 

A friend and I met two attractive HK Chinese girls, on the street, from what I remember, invited them for a drink and dinner, then took them home to our respective flats. They did not mention religion and the Children of God were unknown at that time, at least in HK. We were all just kids in our 20s, it seemed like normal fun.

 

She assured me she was on the pill, and we had sex (this was pre-AIDS). But at the moment of truth, if you get my drift, she yelled out, "Thank you, Jesus!" I said, erm, what? She then told me about the Children of God, and to my horror, explained that it would be up to Jesus whether we had created a new life.

 

I humored her through a highly stressful month and thank the gods she did not get pregnant. But the scandal broke soon afterwards, and I learned how close I'd come to disaster. The aim was/is not only to "create" new cult members, but to pull the fathers in through a sense of guilt and responsibility as well.

 

Of course from that point on I returned to the straight and narrow and never had unprotected sex with strange women again (cough).

 

 

 

 

Thanks for relating that very interesting experience with the Children of God in HK - yes, I know they've changed their name and reorganized several times, but as the old Thai proverb has it:  "A snake that sheds its skin is still a snake."

Your story is exactly the type that I was hoping to elicit from members who had lived in Chiang Mai in the 1980s when the COG were active here.  My own experience of them is quite limited.  Around the time they appeared in Chiang Mai, my young wife had recently given birth to our first daughter and was expecting our second.  So I wasn't really interested in what they had on offer.  Although a few years earlier I probably would have been.

Thanks again for your response.

 

[hml367]

We had a greenhouse/nursery business in the U.S. that we operated out of a 10-acre farmstead where we lived. One day when we weren't open to retail trade, a car pulled in while I was toward the back of the property working in one of the greenhouses. Hubby was upfront, near the house and closer to the car. I saw him go over to the driver's side. The whole time our dog, a 40 pound terrier mix was running around the car, yapping and jumping up, trying to see in the windows of the car. Normally, we'd pull her off and quiet her down when she did this (she was looking to see if there was another dog in the car, she hated other dogs) but I was surprised to see that Hubby didn't stop her and let her continue her jumping, yapping, and probably scratching the car's paint the entire time he talked to the car's driver.

It was a surprising move on his part. Often strangers drove into the farmstead. The area was thinly populated and he would have shown more courtesy to someone who ventured in to, say, ask directions if lost. Later, I asked Hubby what was going on and he explained that the people in the car were Jehovah Witnesses and they wanted to get out and talk with him. He let the dog continue to jump around. They then tried to make nice and ask the name of the dog and then what bred. Hubby said "she's a working dog". "Oh what does she do?" Answer: "She kills pests." He offered to show them the groundhog she'd just done in that he hadn't bothered to go collect out of the barn yet. They decided to leave.

Not as shocking as dancing naked in front of them, but it does go to show that they can be discouraged. (well, come to think about it the dog was dancing around wearing nothing but her collar)

 

Are there any missionaires in the Chiang Mai Expats Club?  serious question.
 

[mikehock]

Has anyone ever conducted any meaningful research into the missionary position?
 
 

An attempt at humor. ....and so original. ..not.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and replies removed.  

[NancyL]

We had a greenhouse/nursery business in the U.S. that we operated out of a 10-acre farmstead where we lived. One day when we weren't open to retail trade, a car pulled in while I was toward the back of the property working in one of the greenhouses. Hubby was upfront, near the house and closer to the car. I saw him go over to the driver's side. The whole time our dog, a 40 pound terrier mix was running around the car, yapping and jumping up, trying to see in the windows of the car. Normally, we'd pull her off and quiet her down when she did this (she was looking to see if there was another dog in the car, she hated other dogs) but I was surprised to see that Hubby didn't stop her and let her continue her jumping, yapping, and probably scratching the car's paint the entire time he talked to the car's driver.

It was a surprising move on his part. Often strangers drove into the farmstead. The area was thinly populated and he would have shown more courtesy to someone who ventured in to, say, ask directions if lost. Later, I asked Hubby what was going on and he explained that the people in the car were Jehovah Witnesses and they wanted to get out and talk with him. He let the dog continue to jump around. They then tried to make nice and ask the name of the dog and then what bred. Hubby said "she's a working dog". "Oh what does she do?" Answer: "She kills pests." He offered to show them the groundhog she'd just done in that he hadn't bothered to go collect out of the barn yet. They decided to leave.

Not as shocking as dancing naked in front of them, but it does go to show that they can be discouraged. (well, come to think about it the dog was dancing around wearing nothing but her collar)

 
Are there any missionaires in the Chiang Mai Expats Club?  serious question.

Someone's occupation or visa status isn't listed on the CEC application form. There is a fellow who wears a clerical collar who sometimes comes to Coffee Mornings and chats with people. I've chatted with him and he seems nice enough. I've never seen anyone move away from his table or otherwise avoid him.

I should note that at the time we ran the greenhouse/nursery business, Hubby and I were active members of a church congregation. But, we didn't think it appropriate to disturb people in their homes or on the street, going up to complete strangers to talk about our religious beliefs. Still don't think it appropriate. We think we demonstrate our beliefs by our example, not by our words.

[nithisa78]

Why are they annoying? If you don't want to see them. You ask them to leave and they comply. I allow them to say what they like and we all part friends.

[PlastikbinLina]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

And they've done a lot of damage to cultures that are vulnerable to confusion of ideas. I lived in Papua New Guinea for 6 years (Jan 1980-October 1985) where there are orthodox and evangelist Christians, often doing wonderful things yes, but at the same time bringing Christian ideology  to primitive people who have little or no Western education or understanding of the white mans ways. What these religions bring is the creation of religious boundaries, boundaries where dislike for christian groups other than their own creates conflict and confusion of ideas. For example, there were more than 50 Christian groups in PNG spread throughout PNG. It became a serious problem for the PNG government and the last I heard was restrictions for certain groups entering the country was put in place.

 

I recall years ago listening to a Jehovah's witness preacher from some suburb in Sydney publicly speaking to  a crowd of locals in Boroko Port Moresby. I was deeply embarrassed to hear the nonsense he preached about the evils of polygamy, infidelity, and how they would be punished by Almighty God if they didn't change their ways. The orthodox religions on the other hand did bring medical, technical, primary education and social ideas to improve life for the locals. I am an atheist but see the good that religious groups like Catholics, Lutheran, and the Seventh Day adventurists do by providing, hospitals, schools, etc. but they don't try to change a 40,000 year old culture to a Western one in 50 years.

 

Let people of other cultures live their own life and enrich their own culture by passing down the stories, ideas to their children without outside interference by twisted, ignorant religious despots.

[techboy]

Over the years I have seen the Jehovas destroy some wonderful persons' lives- housemates, friends wives. Literally. They move in on particularly sensitive and vulnerable prey. In several instances the person is pulling themselves out of long and deep depression, zero motivation and finally smiling and planning. Then the Jehovas pay them a visit with lots of "...you don't need... blah, blah, blah...only God! In the case of housemates I could tell when those trash had been around just by the miserable, listless way the person was acting. I relate stories like this to other people and it is a very common scenario. "Yep, the Jehovas have been around. Keep an eye on Betty, she slashed her wrists last time."

Jehovas would do well to steer clear of me an anyone that I care about.

[Leung Falang]

Jehove Witlesses are an especially annoying cult in that they often come with a sweet ol' granny or a darling teenage girl so that you are forced to be polite.  But they don't give up, they will return...again and again,  it got to the point (years ago and far away) that I had to go their "kingdumb hall"  and forced them to take a map with my house location on it and understand they must not enter my property.  

 

  I think the J.W. org is big enough that they get special treatment and visas from Thai Imm. as missionaries.

I understand that work permits for missionaries are the responsibility of the head immigration office and are limited in supply.  

 

My wife and I do share our Christian testimony when in Thailand with our neighbors but do not go into other areas.  We hear the JW are in and about in Thailand and we do believe they are a cult (not mainstream Christian)-when you ask if you can share your faith with them at their home, they usually don't come back.

 

Thailand has freedom of religion, all of them, although some government officials that belong to the majority religion often work against Christians.

[Genericnic]

 

Fortunately, compared to many places to live plagued by door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesmen,  there are actually few people who knock on your gate in Chiang Mai.  Some, as related by OP, have knocked on my door, and sending them away politely is no bother.

But at least a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman is offering something useful.

 

David

[harrry]

 

 

Fortunately, compared to many places to live plagued by door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesmen,  there are actually few people who knock on your gate in Chiang Mai.  Some, as related by OP, have knocked on my door, and sending them away politely is no bother.

But at least a door-to-door vacuum cleaner salesman is offering something useful.

 

David

 

And they will clean half the lounge room floor.

[Oww]

I mostly like the missionaries here. They are usually pleasant and happy and, if we talk about religion, they don't push it very hard. Maybe I have just been lucky or maybe they can just tell that there is no hope of convincing me. 

 

I post again. And to the "un-lucky ones.." 

 

Google:

Sterilization and Blood theft of Akha women by missionaries in Thailand.

[Ulysses G.]

Even if it is true. It does not represent the vast majority of missionaries.

Ted Bundy kidnapped and murdered women, but that does not mean that all men are serial killers. 

Edited August 12, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[cbluck58]

"I'm just wondering if we are about to see another spike in missionary house-calls and other forms of unwanted high-profile activity."

 

Unwanted by whom?  Christian missionaries have done a lot of good all over the world.  Maybe you should give it a try before judging.

 

Which has been completely outweighed by the devastating levels of damage they have down throughout history , introducing diseases that have wiped out civilisations being just one example.

[arjunadawn]

They come by my house 1 time a month. Very nice and decent people. Mostly Australians or Canadians.  
Doesn't hurt to talk with them for 10 minutes.
They just come for a talk and don't care if you are a christian , Buddhist or Muslim and will not try to convert you to their religion.
Enough misery on the world already , so whats wrong with a friendly talk ?

Hrmm. Sounds more like Mormons. JW are more like gnats when on property. I've no use for anyone that hasn't witnessed through their own self reflection. Why do those who trumpet the mandates of dead people in old texts somehow get a pass to do provocative things? I don't want people coming to my home suggesting how to grow my lawn, raise my kids, move my bowels, and live my life. Why do we think it's okay to insinuate arrogance behind a smile, a door knocking, or little pamphlet? I think they should not be permitted on property by law after once having been told to scat! The suggestion that by my firm resolve that I don't want them on my property I foster "misery on the world" is unfair. Our roads to god are finally individual. When you arrive with a halo I'll listen! My entertaining religious drones most definitely serves to feed the beast that further allows "misery on the world."

[kennypowers]

People always try and excuse the recruitment strategies of such biblical groups by citing the good they do in the world. But they only ever help others because they believe they are saving themselves. 

 

If the bible said neglect everyone instead, they'd do that. 

 

Every day is a desperate struggle to save themselves from the gates of hell. To do this they must recruit others and carry out acts of kindness.

 

I'll never forget my step-mother's funeral, where her born again Christian brother gave a speech. He said words to the effect of, "Let's hope she accepted Jesus into her heart before she died, otherwise sadly she'll have gone to hell".

 

It seemed like he was more upset about his not being able to convert her and save himself.

 

I ask you, if a mentally ill man obtains an audience for his rhetoric, does he suddenly become sane?