Now, may the fight be clean and fair

[BillyBobThai]

When found guilty, this would suit Ms Yingluck to a T.

[Bluespunk]

A great chance for GP to achieve his place in history.

If she is found innocent he can hold out the olive branch of a senior unelected position.

If found guilty with his absolute power he can give her a pardon and a senior unelected position.

If found guilty put her in jail.. why an olive branch... if they never put big fish in jail nothing will ever change.

The implications of problems if she is found guilty is something GP will not want. He will be bending over backwards to ensure a mutually acceptable result for the short term and the future when the military is no longer in power.

Sod that. The guilty should go to gaol where they belong.

[FangFerang]

We can hem and haw all we want. If she is found guilty, she becomes a martyr, if found not guilty, she becomes a lightning rod for cries of injustice, Coming back was politically devastating to her opponents. They are now the dogs that chased the schoolbus and caught its bumper.

Good luck with that one,

[robblok]

We can hem and haw all we want. If she is found guilty, she becomes a martyr, if found not guilty, she becomes a lightning rod for cries of injustice, Coming back was politically devastating to her opponents. They are now the dogs that chased the schoolbus and caught its bumper.

Good luck with that one,

It depends how damning the evidence is if she is guilty. And if guilty put her in jail (if the evidence is strong). They should starting putting big fish in jail too else it will never happen.

[tbthailand]

so she is being tried for negligence, ...

where did all the rice go?

I read that the junta checked nearly 300 warehouses in the northeast - which is one region where you would expect rice corruption if it is linked to the PTP, right.

around 300 warehouses, around 4000 bag of rice missing... from 23 million bags. Rounds off at about 0.018% missing. That's negligible, not negligence ...

[surangw]

how far in advance is she booking her flight for her next "vacation" ?

[nosstit]

If ever the case reaches the Supreme Court, the conviction must be unaniminous by the judges. A split decision of 4-5, retro active laws and insufficient grounds for defence were the type of doubts that generated from Taksin case.

What doubts?

Guilty is guilty regardless of the split or not.

A boxing bout---a fighter wins on a split decision is not thrown out. HE WINS.

Yes, and if you lose a split decision in court you should go to gaol.

A good long sentence if she is guilty so that finally appropriate justice can begin to be meted out to the corrupt politicians in Thailand.

If she accumulates a 30 year prison sentence with multiple convictions, it will go a long way in bringing about change to stop the circle of corruption.

Edited August 16, 2014 by nosstit

[nosstit]

A great chance for GP to achieve his place in history.

If she is found innocent he can hold out the olive branch of a senior unelected position.

If found guilty with his absolute power he can give her a pardon and a senior unelected position.

If found guilty put her in jail.. why an olive branch... if they never put big fish in jail nothing will ever change.

Precisely.

Let her prison sentence serve as the beginning of the end for the most egregious political corruption.

Let her punishment serve as the benchmark to all those that may consider following her corrupt and negligent ways.

[nosstit]

A great chance for GP to achieve his place in history.

If she is found innocent he can hold out the olive branch of a senior unelected position.

If found guilty with his absolute power he can give her a pardon and a senior unelected position.

"If found guilty with his absolute power he can give her a pardon and a senior unelected position."

Nonsense. That authority is not his, it belongs to the Monarch.

Agreed.

Poster seems to be trying to push the limit.

[nosstit]

We can hem and haw all we want. If she is found guilty, she becomes a martyr, if found not guilty, she becomes a lightning rod for cries of injustice, Coming back was politically devastating to her opponents. They are now the dogs that chased the schoolbus and caught its bumper.

Good luck with that one,

It depends how damning the evidence is if she is guilty. And if guilty put her in jail (if the evidence is strong). They should starting putting big fish in jail too else it will never happen.

There's 4,000 pages of evidence against her.

"a martyr"

what a joke

[seajae]

so she is being tried for negligence, ...

where did all the rice go?

I read that the junta checked nearly 300 warehouses in the northeast - which is one region where you would expect rice corruption if it is linked to the PTP, right.

around 300 warehouses, around 4000 bag of rice missing... from 23 million bags. Rounds off at about 0.018% missing. That's negligible, not negligence ...

your investigative skills are very lacking, why is that, maybe because it favours your ptp/red brothers. Now try reading exactly how much rice is missing in the whole country after the ptp/yl said there was none unnacounted for, quite a bit more than 4,000 but we already know what to expect from the appologists.

[tingtongteesood]

If ever the case reaches the Supreme Court, the conviction must be unaniminous by the judges. A split decision of 4-5, retro active laws and insufficient grounds for defence were the type of doubts that generated from Taksin case.

What doubts?

Guilty is guilty regardless of the split or not.

Crazy Eric is just spouting his usual defend the red side in any way possibly bull%$&^$ propaganda, same as he has been well brainwashed to always do

[Eric Loh]

If ever the case reaches the Supreme Court, the conviction must be unaniminous by the judges. A split decision of 4-5, retro active laws and insufficient grounds for defence were the type of doubts that generated from Taksin case.

What doubts?

Guilty is guilty regardless of the split or not.

Crazy Eric is just spouting his usual defend the red side in any way possibly bull%$&^$ propaganda, same as he has been well brainwashed to always do

Come on Tingee Tongee, ain't you doing the same on the other side? Dingdong.

[tbthailand]

so she is being tried for negligence, ...

where did all the rice go?

I read that the junta checked nearly 300 warehouses in the northeast - which is one region where you would expect rice corruption if it is linked to the PTP, right.

around 300 warehouses, around 4000 bag of rice missing... from 23 million bags. Rounds off at about 0.018% missing. That's negligible, not negligence ...

your investigative skills are very lacking, why is that, maybe because it favours your ptp/red brothers. Now try reading exactly how much rice is missing in the whole country after the ptp/yl said there was none unnacounted for, quite a bit more than 4,000 but we already know what to expect from the appologists.

facts are facts, in the northeast, 0.018% was missing.

it's a crisis

[northernjohn]

This trial will go on for a very long time......she has the resources to drag it on for ever, and no doubt, a pretty good legal team.

Would a guilty verdict see her with prison time......probaly, but more than likely suspended. A fine would be irrelevant.

Well she has the resources but judging by the performance of her legal team with the corruption committee I think she will need a new legal team.

It would be nice to see her found guilty and have the book thrown at her. It would send a message to future corruption minded people. But as you say probably be a suspended sentence if she is found guilty.

On the other hand if she is found innocent and we know that their is no doubt of corruption in the scam it will really make her look like an airhead. After all not only was she Prime Minister but she chaired the committee in charge of it.

On another note in the article about Thaksin I had to laugh when I read

like the one that forces Thaksin to live in exile.

He is free to come home any time he wants in fact the government would gladly send a plane for him.

[northernjohn]

We can hem and haw all we want. If she is found guilty, she becomes a martyr, if found not guilty, she becomes a lightning rod for cries of injustice, Coming back was politically devastating to her opponents. They are now the dogs that chased the schoolbus and caught its bumper.

Good luck with that one,

It depends how damning the evidence is if she is guilty. And if guilty put her in jail (if the evidence is strong). They should starting putting big fish in jail too else it will never happen.

They could start right away with Jatuporn and Chalerm.

[tbthailand]

so she is being tried for negligence, ...

where did all the rice go?

I read that the junta checked nearly 300 warehouses in the northeast - which is one region where you would expect rice corruption if it is linked to the PTP, right.

around 300 warehouses, around 4000 bag of rice missing... from 23 million bags. Rounds off at about 0.018% missing. That's negligible, not negligence ...

your investigative skills are very lacking, why is that, maybe because it favours your ptp/red brothers. Now try reading exactly how much rice is missing in the whole country after the ptp/yl said there was none unnacounted for, quite a bit more than 4,000 but we already know what to expect from the appologists.

the numbers above from the northeast are the Junta numbers. Call them apologists if you want!

I recall similar non-crisis numbers from the northern provinces, too - again, Junta numbers - fresh, ink hasn't dried....

Now, if I were to break from the "official" Junta numbers and just start claiming that all the missing rice was in Surat Thani, then your apologist remark might get some traction...

[longway]

We can hem and haw all we want. If she is found guilty, she becomes a martyr, if found not guilty, she becomes a lightning rod for cries of injustice, Coming back was politically devastating to her opponents. They are now the dogs that chased the schoolbus and caught its bumper.

Good luck with that one,

I'm glad she is back as it shows the strength of her character, she may not be too bright but at least she is willing to stand her ground.

However I don't think her martyrdom is as clear cut as you paint it to be. Her brother is just as much on trial, if not more so, she may be the figurehead, but everyone is aware it was her brother who was the architect and principal driver of the scam.

As the evidence mounts of incompetence, they may be able to hide clear evidence of corruption, but the cack-handed handling of the scam is pretty evident and the monumnetal losses accompanying will emerge, it will put a huge amount of pressure on her brother (and sister), who are the real targets for the junta.

Will they be cowards and hide behind her and let her take the fall, or will they own up to their roles?

If she is found guilty and the Thaksin clan don't stand beside her it will smear them badly in the eyes of the public. Well thats my opinion anyway, its a real hot potato for more than the junta.

[longway]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

so she is being tried for negligence, ...

where did all the rice go?

I read that the junta checked nearly 300 warehouses in the northeast - which is one region where you would expect rice corruption if it is linked to the PTP, right.

around 300 warehouses, around 4000 bag of rice missing... from 23 million bags. Rounds off at about 0.018% missing. That's negligible, not negligence ...

The scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy, of which the farmers got 12,000, this equates to about 25,000 baht per tonne of milled rice. Of which close to 20% is rotten, and they can sell the rest for an average of 10,000 baht per tonne. You are talking about losses of over 600 billion baht.

If thats not negligence I dont know what is.

The benefit to poor farmers was minscule, the benefit of sweetheart deals to rich farmers, rice miller, transport and storage companies, selling the rice to preferred buyers at steep discounts, not making accounts publice and lying about various deal and lying about the extent of the losses and all kind sof related scams is monumental.

If this is not corruption I dont know what is.

Its a scam, wake up.

[tbthailand]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

so she is being tried for negligence, ...

where did all the rice go?

I read that the junta checked nearly 300 warehouses in the northeast - which is one region where you would expect rice corruption if it is linked to the PTP, right.

around 300 warehouses, around 4000 bag of rice missing... from 23 million bags. Rounds off at about 0.018% missing. That's negligible, not negligence ...

The scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy, of which the farmers got 12,000, this equates to about 25,000 baht per tonne of milled rice. Of which close to 20% is rotten, and they can sell the rest for an average of 10,000 baht per tonne. You are talking about losses of over 600 billion baht.

If thats not negligence I dont know what is.

The benefit to poor farmers was minscule, the benefit of sweetheart deals to rich farmers, rice miller, transport and storage companies, selling the rice to preferred buyers at steep discounts, not making accounts publice and lying about various deal and lying about the extent of the losses and all kind sof related scams is monumental.

If this is not corruption I dont know what is.

Its a scam, wake up.

how the system works and who it benefits is one thing, corruption and negligence are another - in the same report from the numbers above the junta identified 0.08% had been damaged by flooding.

That is just for the northeast, just 300 warehouses, and it is just for 23 million sacks of rice. But the junta did the checking themselves and that is a lot of rice to comb through.... And that is a really small amount of missing & damaged rice. I personally would have never believed it was such a small percentage.

So add it up, that is not 1 percent, that is less than 0.01% damaged or missing in Isaan...

Haven't seen the numbers for Surat Thani yet, ....

[kimamey]

A great chance for GP to achieve his place in history.

If she is found innocent he can hold out the olive branch of a senior unelected position.

If found guilty with his absolute power he can give her a pardon and a senior unelected position.

If she is found innocent, with his absolute power he can convict her.

If he did it would ruin all credibility. Just because he can doesn't mean he will and I can't see him doing that.

It would also leave him open to action against him later. I know people will say he will give himself an amnesty but that can always be overturned if serious wrongdoing were involved which o think it would be if he interfered.

As I say I can't see it being in his interest to overrule the court unless they themselves do something wrong.

[Seastallion]

A great chance for GP to achieve his place in history.

If she is found innocent he can hold out the olive branch of a senior unelected position.

If found guilty with his absolute power he can give her a pardon and a senior unelected position.

Yes, and I suspect they've already negotiated this, hence her trip away (for show) and her return (for face).

I'm not so sure about a pardon AND a senior position though, more likely a deferred sentence and good behaviour bond, leaving her alone to enjoy her life with her assets intact.

[Eric Loh]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

so she is being tried for negligence, ...

where did all the rice go?

I read that the junta checked nearly 300 warehouses in the northeast - which is one region where you would expect rice corruption if it is linked to the PTP, right.

around 300 warehouses, around 4000 bag of rice missing... from 23 million bags. Rounds off at about 0.018% missing. That's negligible, not negligence ...

The scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy, of which the farmers got 12,000, this equates to about 25,000 baht per tonne of milled rice. Of which close to 20% is rotten, and they can sell the rest for an average of 10,000 baht per tonne. You are talking about losses of over 600 billion baht.

If thats not negligence I dont know what is.

The benefit to poor farmers was minscule, the benefit of sweetheart deals to rich farmers, rice miller, transport and storage companies, selling the rice to preferred buyers at steep discounts, not making accounts publice and lying about various deal and lying about the extent of the losses and all kind sof related scams is monumental.

If this is not corruption I dont know what is.

Its a scam, wake up.

You got to made up your mind if this a scam or negligence. Scam is fraudulent intent for personal gain. Very much different from negligence. Scam is criminal. Negligence is dereliction of duty and not criminal. From what been reported, corruption is local and low level and I have yet to see any report of criminality linking to the government.

Anyway, taking your explanation of scam involving subsidized pricing, would you then consider the fuel subsidies to be also a scam? It cost tax payer 100 B a year.

[longway]

^ by trying to defend this scam you are insulting your own intelligence. I have no issue with subsidy for rice farmers, but i have issue with the way the so called subsidy has been implemented, the permutations of various scams that can be concocted with this style of 'subsidy' are endless, then on top of that you have the incompetence and negligence and you have something legendary even by thai standards.

Its hard to believe but i would not be surprised if yingluck knows little about this project, even though she was the nominal head.

[seajae]

so she is being tried for negligence, ...

where did all the rice go?

I read that the junta checked nearly 300 warehouses in the northeast - which is one region where you would expect rice corruption if it is linked to the PTP, right.

around 300 warehouses, around 4000 bag of rice missing... from 23 million bags. Rounds off at about 0.018% missing. That's negligible, not negligence ...

your investigative skills are very lacking, why is that, maybe because it favours your ptp/red brothers. Now try reading exactly how much rice is missing in the whole country after the ptp/yl said there was none unnacounted for, quite a bit more than 4,000 but we already know what to expect from the appologists.

the numbers above from the northeast are the Junta numbers. Call them apologists if you want!

I recall similar non-crisis numbers from the northern provinces, too - again, Junta numbers - fresh, ink hasn't dried....

Now, if I were to break from the "official" Junta numbers and just start claiming that all the missing rice was in Surat Thani, then your apologist remark might get some traction...

so you think the north east is not part of the greater Thailand, yl was pm of Thailand, not just the NE, her and her ministers claimed that there was no rice missing and there were no rorts involved. Whether your english skills or understanding are very low to not be able to accept this fact is your problem but when you talk about Thailand it is the whole country not just the red aligned bits. You really are showing us all just how pathetic red supporters are when they cannot fathom this fact. She was the head honcho for the rice scheme for all of Thailand, she had the responsibility for it to be open and honest which she never did, she never even sat in on any of the discussions/meetings, too busy shopping. Maybe you simply do not understand that when someone has the responsibility for something like this involving the whole country they are the ones that have their in the sling when it fails which it did. You are stuck with the red mantra of the north east is Thailand when it simply isnt the truth, I really feel sorry for people like you that are unable to understand the whole truth, all you are capable of is just what the reds tell you, truly pathetic. 300 out of how many thousand wharehouses, mate you are just too ****ing much

Edited August 17, 2014 by seajae

[Eric Loh]

^ by trying to defend this scam you are insulting your own intelligence. I have no issue with subsidy for rice farmers, but i have issue with the way the so called subsidy has been implemented, the permutations of various scams that can be concocted with this style of 'subsidy' are endless, then on top of that you have the incompetence and negligence and you have something legendary even by thai standards.

Its hard to believe but i would not be surprised if yingluck knows little about this project, even though she was the nominal head.

Will a CEO of a large corporation know that the janitor is stealing toilet roll? Still we have to put the blame on the CEO for not implementing a better system to prevent corruption or call that poor management. She can't run away from the fact that the scheme was poorly thought out and poorly implemented. I have to add that even the Ahbisit government Strong Thailand scheme have its fair share of poor management criticism and corruption.

[Christie Paul]

The trial will drag on as the economy staggers.

Legal minutia will be juxtaposed and blurred with broader issues. If the Thaksin's play their cards right, they can become heroes. At least that's what they are banking on. I'm sure they have a well oiled PR machine at the ready.

Politically out of their depth, the junta will respond with some more crack downs and appear ever more hapless, as they enforce order and happiness in an economy sliding towards ruin.

Thaksin loves the military junta - they are a gift for his political ambitions.

[ginjag]

The trial will drag on as the economy staggers.

Legal minutia will be juxtaposed and blurred with broader issues. If the Thaksin's play their cards right, they can become heroes. At least that's what they are banking on. I'm sure they have a well oiled PR machine at the ready.

Politically out of their depth, the junta will respond with some more crack downs and appear ever more hapless, as they enforce order and happiness in an economy sliding towards ruin.

Thaksin loves the military junta - they are a gift for his political ambitions.

Thaksin loves anything in his bored life, as long as he can boost his ego and gain the publicity he thrives on. He is a complete control freak.

[longway]

^ by trying to defend this scam you are insulting your own intelligence. I have no issue with subsidy for rice farmers, but i have issue with the way the so called subsidy has been implemented, the permutations of various scams that can be concocted with this style of 'subsidy' are endless, then on top of that you have the incompetence and negligence and you have something legendary even by thai standards.

Its hard to believe but i would not be surprised if yingluck knows little about this project, even though she was the nominal head.

Will a CEO of a large corporation know that the janitor is stealing toilet roll? Still we have to put the blame on the CEO for not implementing a better system to prevent corruption or call that poor management. She can't run away from the fact that the scheme was poorly thought out and poorly implemented. I have to add that even the Ahbisit government Strong Thailand scheme have its fair share of poor management criticism and corruption.

The structure of the scam was to make corruption as easy as possible, benefits to farmers were a secondary consideration. The scam wasted 15,000 baht per tonne and brought in increased benefits to farmers of a few thousand baht per tonne, the design of the scam was to ensure as much as possible could be skimmed.

There was no reason to continue with the pledging once it was realised that the hoarding the rice could not change the world market price.

Just stop with the defense, acknowledge it was a scam right from the start.

[billd766]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

so she is being tried for negligence, ...

where did all the rice go?

I read that the junta checked nearly 300 warehouses in the northeast - which is one region where you would expect rice corruption if it is linked to the PTP, right.

around 300 warehouses, around 4000 bag of rice missing... from 23 million bags. Rounds off at about 0.018% missing. That's negligible, not negligence ...

The scam paid 15,000 per tonne for paddy, of which the farmers got 12,000, this equates to about 25,000 baht per tonne of milled rice. Of which close to 20% is rotten, and they can sell the rest for an average of 10,000 baht per tonne. You are talking about losses of over 600 billion baht.

If thats not negligence I dont know what is.

The benefit to poor farmers was minscule, the benefit of sweetheart deals to rich farmers, rice miller, transport and storage companies, selling the rice to preferred buyers at steep discounts, not making accounts publice and lying about various deal and lying about the extent of the losses and all kind sof related scams is monumental.

If this is not corruption I dont know what is.

Its a scam, wake up.

how the system works and who it benefits is one thing, corruption and negligence are another - in the same report from the numbers above the junta identified 0.08% had been damaged by flooding.

That is just for the northeast, just 300 warehouses, and it is just for 23 million sacks of rice. But the junta did the checking themselves and that is a lot of rice to comb through.... And that is a really small amount of missing & damaged rice. I personally would have never believed it was such a small percentage.

So add it up, that is not 1 percent, that is less than 0.01% damaged or missing in Isaan...

Haven't seen the numbers for Surat Thani yet, ....

The PTP government also said that they had checked ALL the rice stocks and that nothing was missing or damaged and they a whole week to do it in.

The military took over a month and DID find missing stocks and rotten rice.

Who would I believe? Well it wouldn't be the PTP government, that's for sure.