Thai Nominee Shareholding Crackdown in Pattaya announced by DSI

[Jasun]

is this the beginning of the end of farangs 'owning' land though nominee companies?

Land, townhouses, condominiums... even today there's many listed as 'company' ownership. But I'm guessing the priority will be on companies attached to businesses, as working illegally seems to be the crackdown of the moment.

[MK1]

Not unusual, just like a 7 year reoccurring itch, consistent with the last crackdown/blitz in 2006-2007 after that coup. If you survived that probe; then you should survive this one. If you’ve not seen your lawyer or accountant in some time, it might be an idea to do so. Never fear Gen/PM Prayuth is here.

Edited August 22, 2014 by MK1

[surfinglife]

Let see western governments do the same to Thai nationals with investments abroad, make these rules reciprocal.

There is a slight difference between legal investments and illegal "business activities".....

[CLUBBER]

The writing is on the wall boys , might be time to get outta Dodge ! Malaysia , Cambodia and Vietnam looking better and better every day ! Yes this crackdown is whats needed to fix the ills of the kingdom

[surfinglife]

My wife is a Thai national; I am a USA national. We live in each country roughly six months per year. But the difference in the way we are treated by each other's native country is night and day. My wife travels in and out of the USA on her Thai passport never needing a Visa. She can work, own property, own businesses, go to school, whatever. She is protected against overt discrimination and welcomed as a tax-paying, contributing part of society. But no matter how long we are married, nor how long we are in Thailand, I can never do any of those things. We are both college educated experienced professionals; but she is welcomed and wanted in my country, and I never will be in hers. Xenophobic or not, it's just plain dumb.

You are one of the lucky ones. My American friend has been married to a Thai for 15 years and she has never been granted a visa to visit US, even to attend his father's funeral.

[shaurene]

Let see western governments do the same to Thai nationals with investments abroad, make these rules reciprocal.

I agree, tit for tat.

[ttthailand]

We see it happening everywhere in Thailand, laws are being enforced. In the past it was only lip service but this time it sounds serious. And with the man who is pushing all of this now in the driving seat (PM) It is going to be a ruff ride for those who are not on the up and up.

If you are breaking or twisting a law in some way perhaps it is time to get your house in order.

I see fire sales coming in the housing market.

Edited August 22, 2014 by ttthailand

[TonyChiangMai]

Is this really going to go as far as confiscating property bought using this method, if so it has huge implications for many

what part of

Foreign business operators

is it you don't understand?

First at all. I don't think they are going to confiscating property . But many do this to keep control of land and property

Create a thai company with shareholders by the foreigner and split it out to share holdes from 3 to 7 thai persons payed a sum of money to accept a signature

The company is just a empty foreign business, with no income and expenses

Company buy the land

Company buy/build a house, buy cars and so on

Keep the assert in the company, and the foreign has full control. Many do this down here to protect there investment.

So as you say it's a company by a Foreign business operators

First if it is not a real company operating and generating revenue and taxes, then it's purpose should be questioned.

If they are not ready to share the money then they should go back home.

Control can be retained with preference shares.

[moto77]

I guess that there aren't many Americans doing this.

However, hypothetically speaking, couldn't someone also use a US citizen and achieve the same result?

[moe666]

Be a foreigner and marry a Thai then do the paperwork in your foreign country and the Thai will be free to work any job with no work permit and can become a citizen quite easily and own as much land as they want, however, the foreigner married to the Thai, living and supporting the family in Thailand, cannot work without extraordinary paperwork and financial investment, has a very slim chance of becoming a citizen and cannot own land.

What is the point, unless one is a rock we all know the rules about living in Thailand

[crazykopite]

Here we go again just like a bad itch evry 5 years or so it comes back and after a month dies a death. The Thai government do not employ a big enough workforce to search out all these so called illegal companies it would take years , how do the likes of Tesco, Macro, 7/11, Topps, Home Pro get away with it as they are all foreign owned companies maybe they should start looking at the big boys rather than the little guy with less than a rai with a little house on it. Leicester City Football Club is owned by a Thai maybe the British government should have the same attitude as the Thai government and forbid ownership

[moto77]

My wife is a Thai national; I am a USA national. We live in each country roughly six months per year. But the difference in the way we are treated by each other's native country is night and day. My wife travels in and out of the USA on her Thai passport never needing a Visa. She can work, own property, own businesses, go to school, whatever. She is protected against overt discrimination and welcomed as a tax-paying, contributing part of society. But no matter how long we are married, nor how long we are in Thailand, I can never do any of those things. We are both college educated experienced professionals; but she is welcomed and wanted in my country, and I never will be in hers. Xenophobic or not, it's just plain dumb.

You are one of the lucky ones. My American friend has been married to a Thai for 15 years and she has never been granted a visa to visit US, even to attend his father's funeral.

Depends on the person. My Thai GF (not wife) got a 10 year business and tourist visa with 180 day entries.

[Lupatria]

'til the last farrang turns off the light...

[moe666]

My wife is a Thai national; I am a USA national. We live in each country roughly six months per year. But the difference in the way we are treated by each other's native country is night and day. My wife travels in and out of the USA on her Thai passport never needing a Visa. She can work, own property, own businesses, go to school, whatever. She is protected against overt discrimination and welcomed as a tax-paying, contributing part of society. But no matter how long we are married, nor how long we are in Thailand, I can never do any of those things. We are both college educated experienced professionals; but she is welcomed and wanted in my country, and I never will be in hers. Xenophobic or not, it's just plain dumb.

Cannot believe this, Travels in and out of the USA on Thai Passport never needing a visa, very special lady here. Please explain how this happens, if you have an explanation

[GAZZPA]

Is this really going to go as far as confiscating property bought using this method, if so it has huge implications for many

I believe it will. It's the main reason I kept my money safe and just rent a property here. Xenophobia is alive and well, this announcement just confirms it. In addition to business ownership there is nothing more that Thais dislike then foreigners owning land.

At the end of the day the activity of business ownership and land ownership has been abused for years. How many companies are there out there set up by solicitors with fictitious Thai employees to fill the quota and also companies set up with minimal (if any) trading purely so the house can be put in a company name? I suspect a lot of them, but it is a loophole and if people decided to do this it was always a risk.

I hope it blows over and everything works out or it could be a very real problem for many foreign people living here. This will not help anybody, including the Thai economy as investors will run scared. Not because they are doing anything illegal necessarily but simply because you just don't know what will be decided next. I can also imagine it will have an effect on property pricing as people look to sell and pull out their cash.

All pretty horrible really.

[moto77]

My wife is a Thai national; I am a USA national. We live in each country roughly six months per year. But the difference in the way we are treated by each other's native country is night and day. My wife travels in and out of the USA on her Thai passport never needing a Visa. She can work, own property, own businesses, go to school, whatever. She is protected against overt discrimination and welcomed as a tax-paying, contributing part of society. But no matter how long we are married, nor how long we are in Thailand, I can never do any of those things. We are both college educated experienced professionals; but she is welcomed and wanted in my country, and I never will be in hers. Xenophobic or not, it's just plain dumb.

Cannot believe this, Travels in and out of the USA on Thai Passport never needing a visa, very special lady here. Please explain how this happens, if you have an explanation

I'm sure the answer is that she has a US green card...

[khunpa]

When it comes to foreigners the thing Thai people forget, is that foreigners who own houses, companies etc. often have other options. Now they want to crack down on foreigners who have done investments here. Good! Then I hope they really do it! Because what they lack is the ability to think long-term and see the effects of their enforcements.

The only thing they will gain is loss of investment and people will just find other countries to do their business in. At some point, this will hurt the economy so much here and they will finally wake up to reality. When that happens, we will see another attitude to foreigners. I look forward to that. So PLEASE, PLEASE - enforce the law and get rid of those damn foreigners contributing to the economy here!

[leesgems]

My wife is a Thai national; I am a USA national. We live in each country roughly six months per year. But the difference in the way we are treated by each other's native country is night and day. My wife travels in and out of the USA on her Thai passport never needing a Visa. She can work, own property, own businesses, go to school, whatever. She is protected against overt discrimination and welcomed as a tax-paying, contributing part of society. But no matter how long we are married, nor how long we are in Thailand, I can never do any of those things. We are both college educated experienced professionals; but she is welcomed and wanted in my country, and I never will be in hers. Xenophobic or not, it's just plain dumb.

Ditto, same here. Not reciprocal, not fair.

[moe666]

I guess it takes a really good story for everyone to crawl out from under their rock. We all know the rules when we move to Thailand why are a few acting like it is something new to them. Visa crack down, business crack down OOOOO whats next to get everyone in an uproar. You know the rules if you cannot take the heat get out

[Rorri]

Gsxrnz, on 22 Aug 2014 - 07:29, said:

How dare these nasty foreigners dare to contribute to the Thai economy!!!

This really goes to show, what many suspected, and some denied, that Thailand only wants your money, but wished you were not here.

[ironbark]

Like the small time vendors on the beachfront, the anti-corruption crackdown is focusing on the small guy, while the big fish are being left untouched.

Are the real colours of the NCPO at last being revealed.

[Rorri]

carstenp, on 22 Aug 2014 - 08:24, said:

I feel sorry for the foreigner using Thai Nominee Shareholding to keep control of the land, and house for millions of bt to protect there investment, but they know it was illegal in the beginning

In the end, is all about money and keep them safe in Thailand

Please, show me where, in Thai law, that it was/is illegal. As far as I can determine ALL conditions were met. If they wanted to make it "illegal" Thailand had ample opportunities to close any legal loop holes. As far as I'm concerned it appears Thailand now believes it has everything it needs, from foreign investment, and now wants it all to itself.

[leesgems]

My wife is a Thai national; I am a USA national. We live in each country roughly six months per year. But the difference in the way we are treated by each other's native country is night and day. My wife travels in and out of the USA on her Thai passport never needing a Visa. She can work, own property, own businesses, go to school, whatever. She is protected against overt discrimination and welcomed as a tax-paying, contributing part of society. But no matter how long we are married, nor how long we are in Thailand, I can never do any of those things. We are both college educated experienced professionals; but she is welcomed and wanted in my country, and I never will be in hers. Xenophobic or not, it's just plain dumb.

Cannot believe this, Travels in and out of the USA on Thai Passport never needing a visa, very special lady here. Please explain how this happens, if you have an explanation

She probably holds a permanent resident card.

[Thakkar]

<snip>

BTW every guy's wife or GF on this forum is college educated with multiple doctorates.

Not mine. Mrs T was a pro kick boxer and part time Donna Summers impersonator who also worked Tuesdays and Thursdays at The Samaritans suicide helpline. She was fired from the last for mistaking her duties to include going over to kick the life out of callers while singing "Hot Love."

T

[ironbark]

I guess it takes a really good story for everyone to crawl out from under their rock. We all know the rules when we move to Thailand why are a few acting like it is something new to them. Visa crack down, business crack down OOOOO whats next to get everyone in an uproar. You know the rules if you cannot take the heat get out.

People are required to follow the letter of the law.

If the law allows foreigners to use a nominee Thai director to own the company then people who use this mechanism are only obeying the law.

As Australia's then richest man Kerry Packer, who paid no income tax, said to a Senate committe of enquiry on taxation, "if you pay more tax than the law requires then you have rocks in your head".

Edited August 22, 2014 by ironbark

[moto77]

carstenp, on 22 Aug 2014 - 08:24, said:

I feel sorry for the foreigner using Thai Nominee Shareholding to keep control of the land, and house for millions of bt to protect there investment, but they know it was illegal in the beginning

In the end, is all about money and keep them safe in Thailand

Please, show me where, in Thai law, that it was/is illegal. As far as I can determine ALL conditions were met. If they wanted to make it "illegal" Thailand had ample opportunities to close any legal loop holes. As far as I'm concerned it appears Thailand now believes it has everything it needs, from foreign investment, and now wants it all to itself.

Foreign Business Act of 1999 (Thailand)

The Foreign Business Act was a law enacted by the Chuan Leekpai-controlled National Legislative Assembly of Thailand in 1999 that limited foreign ownership of certain Thai industries. Its predecessor was the Alien Business Act of 1972, enacted by a military junta. Industries which must be majority-owned by Thais included the newspaper business, radio stations, television stations, rice farming, animal husbandry, fishing, land trading, mining, wholesaling and retailing, restaurants, and all service businesses. The law criminalized nominees, any Thai who held shares on behalf of a foreigner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Business_Act_of_1999_(Thailand)

Edited August 22, 2014 by moto77

[leesgems]

Be a foreigner and marry a Thai then do the paperwork in your foreign country and the Thai will be free to work any job with no work permit and can become a citizen quite easily and own as much land as they want, however, the foreigner married to the Thai, living and supporting the family in Thailand, cannot work without extraordinary paperwork and financial investment, has a very slim chance of becoming a citizen and cannot own land.

What is the point, unless one is a rock we all know the rules about living in Thailand

Sorry, I do not get your meaning.

[Rorri]

smedly, on 22 Aug 2014 - 09:11, said:

LennyW, on 22 Aug 2014 - 08:58, said:

Be a few ringpieces twitching now!!

well the current administration has been coming down hard on the locals for land encroachment etc so it follows that if foreigners have been bending the rules then it's not a huge surprise that they will also be dealt with

I have mixed feelings about how Thailand protects their property and land ownership and business practices - but considering the meltdown of western banks through less than stellar management and dare I say it corruption and the aftermath of required bailouts in the trillions perhaps it's just as well

Oh, but let's not forget the Asian financial crisis 1997, which was started by ....wait for it....THAILAND. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Asian_financial_crisis, so let's keep this local and not go off track. You seem to have missed this story is about Thailand.

[alanrchase]

My wife is a Thai national; I am a USA national. We live in each country roughly six months per year. But the difference in the way we are treated by each other's native country is night and day. My wife travels in and out of the USA on her Thai passport never needing a Visa. She can work, own property, own businesses, go to school, whatever. She is protected against overt discrimination and welcomed as a tax-paying, contributing part of society. But no matter how long we are married, nor how long we are in Thailand, I can never do any of those things. We are both college educated experienced professionals; but she is welcomed and wanted in my country, and I never will be in hers. Xenophobic or not, it's just plain dumb.

Ditto, same here. Not reciprocal, not fair.

Nor fair? Since when did all countries have to have the same rules and regulations. Caught for drugs in some countries, death penalty, in others slap on wrist or possibly legal. Not fair.

[loppylugs1]

carstenp, on 22 Aug 2014 - 08:24, said:

I feel sorry for the foreigner using Thai Nominee Shareholding to keep control of the land, and house for millions of bt to protect there investment, but they know it was illegal in the beginning

In the end, is all about money and keep them safe in Thailand

Please, show me where, in Thai law, that it was/is illegal. As far as I can determine ALL conditions were met. If they wanted to make it "illegal" Thailand had ample opportunities to close any legal loop holes. As far as I'm concerned it appears Thailand now believes it has everything it needs, from foreign investment, and now wants it all to itself.

Thailand took a blind eye to this,new govt will not. Never was legal for farang to own land,never mind the house that stood on it. Even the company that owned the land/house was Thai owned,so farang owned nothing

Loopholes were created to shovel more money into the scheme of things,now farang going to get fingers burnt