Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[Mister Fixit]

feel free to document how many are left to die on the hospital steps

Feel free to document how many farang are a burden to the thai state in public hospitals.

Again, quite so. I think you are on a hiding to nothing, replying to this one, jspill.

[RandomSand]

RE OP;

So... Teachers without any WP can come and go but genuine tourists will possibly get refused entry coming off a flight or crossing a land border.

Amazing Thailand.

[AYJAYDEE]

tell that to the thai hospitals that end up treating indigent farangs

'Hospitals in Thailand will often not operate without insurance or cash upfront.' - http://www.bangkoktimesonline.com/will-planning/

Quite so. Any foreigner can be treated at any Thai hospital - as long as they can pay.

There's no 30 baht or free treatment for foreigners here, or didn't the OP know that?

public hospitals are required to treat all patients

[Bigfarang1948]

What has it been now; about a month since the clamp down on Visa Runners went into effect? I just had this little niggling doubt the clamp down would last because of the problem it would create with a shortage of English teachers, most of all. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe the relaxation of the border runner rules( I should not use that term), lack of rules, is for a completely different reason. Amazing Thailand

S... me Sherlock fancy, by screwing down hard on teachers doing boarder runs you run short of English teachers. Up side the ones here might now be in greater demand and Demand = more money Happy happy oh happy days.

[chrisinth]

Anyway, back to the topic, Flexibility with 'visa runners'.

There has been a lot of interpretation (and a lot of nonsense) into the statements made by General Prayuth 17 pages and 420+ replies ago. This is a good thing and I would like to add my take, with reference to:

"The runners can register with the bureau, which will find a sustainable resolution to the problem....."

My personal thoughts on this would be a register for people in the process of, or having difficulty with obtaining the correct paperwork whether it be non-B visas or work permits through which they have had to make more border trips than would be deemed normal. I could also see this being accompanied with a letter from the business or school applying for said paperwork explaining the circumstances.

I do not hold the view that border runs will revert to the way they were, would be pointless and a loss of face for the Thai authorities who have taken the steps to get this far. So for all those hopeful of that scenario, I don't think thats going to happen.

However, with his further statement:

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides"

I think this could lead to an amendment to Thai Law BE2522 where guides are still a job prohibited to foreigners (see attached).

Prohibited types of work in Thailand_Guide.PDF

As said earlier, this is only my take on what I see, and of course could be entirely wrong. But something to think about.........

Edited August 24, 2014 by chrisinth

[jamesnunn8]

That was just the headline I needed to see before getting on my flight.

I just spent 2 nights in Malaysia and just come back through Don Mueang immigration no problem on VE.

I have 2 visa runs to cambodia in my passport and many more VE stamps just from this year.

I am an offshore worker but my job keeps getting delayed, hence I keep having to leave the country.

[EBlair48]

From Phuket Local news

http://www.thephuketnews.com/coup-leader-calls-for-immigration-to-relax-%E2%80%98out-in%E2%80%99-visa-clampdown-48007.php

Snippet:

According to the English subtitles of his speech, the general said he was concerned that the clampdown – whereby people doing out-in visas are required to prove they are genuine tourists, or be barred from entry – was affecting schools and the tourist industry.

“This is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides,” he said.

The statement will shock many in the bureaucracy, on several levels. First, it is illegal to work while in Thailand on a tourist visa. Second, people working illegally pay no tax. And third, foreigners may not be guides in Thailand; that is a profession reserved for Thais only.

The crackdown was launched by the then-national commander of Thai Immigration, Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon, who told The Phuket News on May 13, just nine days before the coup, that multiple out-in visa runs would no longer be tolerated. He has since been sidelined....

More at link

[ChiTownHustla]

I thought about teaching English on Thailand but I realize these people are regarded as trash like prostitutes or drug dealers, bar flies and beach bums who are the real visa runners.I have a degree in English and a native speaker. Why don't they bring in Ordinary visa for any purpose lime Cambodia?

After just a quick look at your spelling, punctuation, and grammar, it seems you've done everyone a favor by not teaching English.

[brianp0803]

Maybe good for schools to give ratings to teachers and good teachers can keep getting work permits. But this could be open to corruption.

I teach high school math with a degree in math.

Will on online Pgcei from England make me a better teacher? If I believed it would make me a better teacher I would sign up tomorrow.

[brianp0803]

Experienced teachers that love teaching in Thailand are told they are not allowed to teach after 2 exemption without an education degree in order to improve the quality of foreign teachers.

These experienced teachers without an education degree will be replaced with inexperienced teachers with any degree because they can get work permits.

This should improve the quality of foreign teachers in Thailand.

[GoonDizzy]

You only need to look at the amount of teaching jobs available at the moment. This is the middle of the school year, remember. Can't see teachers doing visa runs anymore if they can't get a work permit due to the school not wanting to pay. The gent above makes a good point. A pal of mine has a degree in maths too. He's been teaching just maths for about seven years. And he's bloody good at it. Now, he's had to enrol on a PGCEi as he's been told (by pals not his school) he won't get a licence next year as he needs a post grad or degree in education. Will it make him a better maths teacher? I'm not so sure. He controls his class well and his students like him and listen to him. They get good results too. Some can't afford the PGCEi/M.Ed and will have to leave.

Is it a good idea to have them replaced with degreed folk (not in Education) with no experience? They can get 4 years (temp licence) with a third class degree in Basket Weaving.

Again, the waiver scheme hasn't been thought out well. Many teachers weren't aware it existed until the last year. If you don't look on here and your school don't tell you, how are you supposed to know that you've only got a year/six months left as your degree isn't in Education? There should be a note stapled into the work permit from the powers that be explaining the temp licence for non Ed degrees and how to get a full one. The culture/test route is difficult to get on and I hear the test is not passed by many. So, the Ed degree is the real route (or a master's in Ed/PGCE+ any degree).

[mrtoad]

PGCE by distance learning? Didnt know they did that

[GoonDizzy]

Maybe good for schools to give ratings to teachers and good teachers can keep getting work permits. But this could be open to corruption.

I teach high school math with a degree in math.

Will on online Pgcei from England make me a better teacher? If I believed it would make me a better teacher I would sign up tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure Thailand doesn't accept online degrees. There is a PGCEi via distance learning in which they send over assessors to watch you teach. That one will get you a licence. I think it's with Nottingham. Or it could be Sheffield! Check it out. It's not cheap. It won't give you QTS for the UK, but it is recognised by most nations for teaching in a foreign country. I've been told that Thailand does accept it, but not the online versions.

Another option would be Webster International in Bangkok. It's a Master's in Ed done over 18 months. It's about 150,000 baht. I hear you can pay monthly, although you'll need to confirm it. That will also get you a licence for as long as you wish.

Or, you could just do visa runs if you have no permit soon! Only joking...

[GuyL]

Please, ignore this post: this is just a test for JesseFrank.

Getting a work permit is not difficult nor expensive. The reason schools don't get work permits is one of two reasons, either they don't qualify or they don't want to pay the taxes on the teachers salary. Schools give excuses it's expensive and difficult. More or less the teachers are working under the table and no taxes are being paid. The cost for a work permit is a little less than 3000B.

True that the fees for work permit are 3,000 B, and true that some places are concerned with dodging taxes, but the costs and difficulties associated with this ridiculous system are huge indeed. I'm not making it up: I have just received my own work permit and the total cost was close to 40,000 B, and that figure does not take into account all the time, hassle and stress involved!

I am currently using SRWare Iron and this is just a test for JesseFrank. Please, ignore this post. Thanks!

[RPCVguy]

Experienced teachers that love teaching in Thailand are told they are not allowed to teach after 2 exemption without an education degree in order to improve the quality of foreign teachers.

These experienced teachers without an education degree will be replaced with inexperienced teachers with any degree because they can get work permits.

This should improve the quality of foreign teachers in Thailand.

Your info sounds like the worst of the situations facing my friend, formerly a teacher at the local secondary school. He's the one who -

"has a degree - a Bachelor of Arts in English, his minor is German (so he has studied linguistics.) He has taken courses in Thai while here and can read and write in Thai after only a year (something my eyes and hand-eye co-ordination as a retiree have failed to accomplish) He speaks Thai in the precise manner of a student rather than with the fluidity of a person who uses it constantly, but his studies have given him a better vocabulary and control of tone in conveying complex concepts than I manage after 7 years of picking it up around the village.

What many here are missing is the opportunity to keep the young adventurous types who have the youth allowing them to acquire the skills I just mentioned. Neural patterns of listening to tones (as in Thai) are very different than listening to the endings on words (needed for European languages) and those who have studied in England, the USA or Australia to be teachers are unlikely to be the same set of people wandering the planet and looking for staying awhile to explore a culture.

Once the requirements mount for native speakers - beyond the basic one of a bachelor's degree - then these young, culturally attuned wanders are basically told to wander elsewhere.

NOTE: In my [earlier] post I described his expression of confusion. It is that the rules are stated differently in different places, and the uncertainty of what will be the governing rules as his case draws near is a sufficient uncertainty that he's thinking of just looking elsewhere.

Westerners like to have some plans - maybe not multiple years at a time, but a year or so out is where at least this one friend is desiring a bit better certainty, even if it means he becomes certain to move elsewhere. " http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/754033-immigration-bureau-told-to-be-flexible-with-visa-runners/page-17#entry8289751

Then I read the next few posts following yours ... and see that remedies are neither clearly defined, nor certain as to being a solution.

Currently my youngest step-daughter is in college - getting the English communication skills not available during multiple years of government education. She's in the lucky few to have someone foot the bill of that education.

I also know that since the granddaughter entered that same secondary school, there have been agency supplied native speakers and the entire English program has improved. No, not always because the native language teacher was that great - but because the Thai teachers finally had someone with whom to converse regularly. (This IS a problem unresolved if the native English speakers on staff are not sociable or if they are prone to using slang. The school changed agencies so as to get rid of one such "teacher") To their credit, the Thai teachers probably each knew the rules of syntax, but were inadequate at speaking in English. It is nearly impossible to be good at a language in a town or village lacking in native speakers with whom to interact. It was literally easier for me to speak with some in my broken Thai than for them to converse in English - and over the past three semesters that situation has improved.

So, can the rules for obtaining a work permit or renewing a work permit include the option for observing and verifying which deserve to have continued waivers? Do that proactively shortly after issuing the 2nd waiver and subsequent waivers so as to not force the better youngsters to leave... especially from the less cosmopolitan regions of the nation. Rural Thai students need English teachers who can speak fluently, and rural Thai teachers deserve some help in having native English speakers with whom to sharpen and maintain what skills they once learned.

[starcatcher]

It´s not just about teachers, I guess. I started Internet business about 20 years ago - with the goal to be able to relocate independent. About 10 years ago I did so.

I pay officially and absolutely legal 10 percent tax on this. I have a minimum income of $ 5,000 per month. Additionally I not have any need to work, if I not want - my income is stable. Even just the border runs cost me some money before, but still acceptable. I also opened a company, but it was not possible to make it legal, as they not had any definitions and rules about Internet businesses. So I should make "something" in Bangkok just for having the work permit, but also not really legal. So I picked up my wp, moved to the next counter and gave it back one minute later. I wanted to stay really legal and not just half.

I stayed about 5 years in Thailand. I spent for sure nearly about 1 million Dollar, never worked black or w/o wp. And I know more people, doing Internet business with even more income. Thailand should loose them all. I moved on already. Somewhere else I wrote it: I don´t need Thailand – Thailand also not need our money? Then those rules are just fine.

I tried to make everything legal. But I did not agree to pay so much money and just were able to make it “half legal”. When I see the income of a teacher, it is even just a joke. Just the costs of the border runs are pretty high for them. But here it comes to the next point: do the English teachers need Thailand or needs Thailand English teachers?

And as so many people always try to compare with western countries (just look, how difficult to get a visa etc.): countries like Germany pay a lot money to bring qualified employees to the country. In Thailand you should pay them to bring your knowledge. I also wanted to teach some people about the business, I do. But I´m also not willing to pay, that I´m allowed to do.

And now? “relaxed” border runs? That´s great to make plans for your life – as long as you don´t plan more far then to tomorrow. Make meaningful laws and not stretch laws, as you just need – or simplys accept, that people won´t stay and help you.

[brianp0803]

I am not sure the PGCEI from Nottingham has much if any observation but you're correct it is not accepted for teaching in England.

One observation would not be that valuable. A semester of observation and suggestions would be great.

[RandomSand]

Getting a work permit is not difficult nor expensive. The reason schools don't get work permits is one of two reasons, either they don't qualify or they don't want to pay the taxes on the teachers salary. Schools give excuses it's expensive and difficult. More or less the teachers are working under the table and no taxes are being paid. The cost for a work permit is a little less than 3000B.

True that the fees for work permit are 3,000 B, and true that some places are concerned with dodging taxes, but the costs and difficulties associated with this ridiculous system are huge indeed. I'm not making it up: I have just received my own work permit and the total cost was close to 40,000 B, and that figure does not take into account all the time, hassle and stress involved!

edit: Error in posting. Excuse me.

Posting using the SRWare Iron Web Browser

Edited August 24, 2014 by RandomSand

[GoonDizzy]

I am not sure the PGCEI from Nottingham has much if any observation but you're correct it is not accepted for teaching in England.

One observation would not be that valuable. A semester of observation and suggestions would be great.

I think it may actually be Keele University. Not sure how many observations you get.

[mataleo]

MINISTER-IN-WAITING, GEN PRAYUTH CHAN-OCHA LAST NIGHT (AUGUST 22) CALLED FOR THE IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN ON “OUT-IN” TOURIST VISAS TO BE ROLLED BACK.

http://friendsinthailand.com/2014/08/23/minister-in-waiting-gen-prayuth-chan-ocha-last-night-august-22-called-for-the-immigration-crackdown-on-out-in-tourist-visas-to-be-rolled-back/

"The statement will shock many in the bureaucracy, on several levels. First, it is illegal to work while in Thailand on a tourist visa. Second, people working illegally pay no tax. And third, foreigners may not be guides in Thailand; that is a profession reserved for Thais only."

http://www.thephuketnews.com/coup-leader-calls-for-immigration-to-relax-%E2%80%98out-in%E2%80%99-visa-clampdown-48007.php

TIT

Edited August 24, 2014 by mataleo

[harrry]

Being a native English speaker, who majored in English, minored in German and who is in his 2nd work permit - that's the experience of a friend who taught at our local secondary school for a year before taking a slot at a bigger school in a city. He visited again and news of his visit brought a buzz of excitement among the teachers. He was liked by staff an students alike, and is missed. He was one who did prepare for classes... and made it interesting.

Observing teachers and certifying their effectiveness sounds to me like one interim step to keep him and others - longer..

The thing is, he's not sure he'll be allowed another work permit. As he's seeing the rules, he's only allowed two work permits before he either takes teacher courses or needs to cease teaching. (Currently, his only teacher's course is TEFL.)

The confusion as to what is required or not - that alone may force him to plan to leave the country. How many others are also caught in this?

A degree would be nice. Just like we need in Farang world. Unqualified teachers should not teach.

Insult to the profession. Go practice law. Why not. This is Thailand

He has a degree - a Bachelor of Arts in English, his minor is German (so he has studied linguistics.) He has taken courses in Thai while here and can read and write in Thai after only a year (something my eyes and hand-eye co-ordination as a retiree have failed to accomplish) He speaks Thai in the precise manner of a student rather than with the fluidity of a person who uses it constantly, but his studies have given him a better vocabulary and control of tone in conveying complex concepts than I manage after 7 years of picking it up around the village.

What many here are missing is the opportunity to keep the young adventurous types who have the youth allowing them to acquire the skills I just mentioned. Neural patterns of listening to tones (as in Thai) are very different than listening to the endings on words (needed for European languages) and those who have studied in England, the USA or Australia to be teachers are unlikely to be the same set of people wandering the planet and looking for staying awhile to explore a culture.

Once the requirements mount for native speakers - beyond the basic one of a bachelor's degree - then these young, culturally attuned wanders are basically told to wander elsewhere.

NOTE: In my post I described his expression of confusion. It is that the rules are stated differently in different places, and the uncertainty of what will be the governing rules as his case draws near is a sufficient uncertainty that he's thinking of just looking elsewhere.

Westerners like to have some plans - maybe not multiple years at a time, but a year or so out is where at least this one friend is desiring a bit better certainty, even if it means he becomes certain to move elsewhere.

Good Post

People in here are too quick of the mark ready to judge, condemn, until or even proved innocent with a follow up reply. Nobody, in this den of constant abuse is immune to attack, whether with good intent or not. There are some excellent scholars and fellow academics alike who give their penny's worth on TV. However, its all in vein and a complete and utter waste of time or pent-up energy unless of course your part of the hang em' LYNCH MOB .. that patrols these topics ..

,

Well thats my view my friend.. ......

You say the unqualified may not practice law. Pray tell when the quallification for lawyers was introduced in England? I understand it is only recently a degree was required.

Edited August 24, 2014 by harrry

[Gutterboy]

and when you have done this go and do a comparative cost of doing the same thing for someone going to work in the US or UK as a non citizen/PR

Yeah that would be fine if the topic was US and UK working permits.... but it's not.

I agree, but the poster is making a statement about something is expensive and complicated, but to make a statement like this, one needs to compare the complexity and cost with it with something comparable, agreed ?

a 3 series BMW is expensive in comparison with the cost of a Ford focus, but is cheap in comparision with the cost of an Aston Martin.

Can't see the need for a comparison. Somebody earlier said that schools should just get work permits for all their teachers and I pointed out that it's not that easy or cheap otherwise a lot of them probably would have already!

But if you really want to do a comparison, is the USA desperately in need of Thai language teachers? And does Thailand have to worry about people sponging off the system? There is nothing to sponge!

[AYJAYDEE]

and when you have done this go and do a comparative cost of doing the same thing for someone going to work in the US or UK as a non citizen/PR

Yeah that would be fine if the topic was US and UK working permits.... but it's not.

I agree, but the poster is making a statement about something is expensive and complicated, but to make a statement like this, one needs to compare the complexity and cost with it with something comparable, agreed ?

a 3 series BMW is expensive in comparison with the cost of a Ford focus, but is cheap in comparision with the cost of an Aston Martin.

Can't see the need for a comparison. Somebody earlier said that schools should just get work permits for all their teachers and I pointed out that it's not that easy or cheap otherwise a lot of them probably would have already!

But if you really want to do a comparison, is the USA desperately in need of Thai language teachers? And does Thailand have to worry about people sponging off the system? There is nothing to sponge!

health care

[ericthai]

Getting a work permit is not difficult nor expensive. The reason schools don't get work permits is one of two reasons, either they don't qualify or they don't want to pay the taxes on the teachers salary. Schools give excuses it's expensive and difficult. More or less the teachers are working under the table and no taxes are being paid. The cost for a work permit is a little less than 3000B.

True that the fees for work permit are 3,000 B, and true that some places are concerned with dodging taxes, but the costs and difficulties associated with this ridiculous system are huge indeed. I'm not making it up: I have just received my own work permit and the total cost was close to 40,000 B, and that figure does not take into account all the time, hassle and stress involved!

Why did it cost you 40,000B? Did you pay someone to get it for you? Your company is suppose to pay the fees for it. Dont know why it cost you 40K my staff have been taking care of mine for years and the cost is 2700B. To get the WP you need to have you B visa which you need to show you paid your taxes.

For the last few days I have been putting together a breakdown of the real costs of getting a work permit, and I will post them on this forum as soon as the lengthy, complicated process is finished. But here's a sneak preview: yes the FEE for a work permit is 2,700 (actually 3,000 at the office where I am applying), but there's so many more costs associated, the biggest of which is one you already mentioned: the B visa. A return flight to Singapore, hotels, expenses etc, plus the visa fees is close to 20k already. (Singapore is the only one of the neighbouring embassies that will process the visa without a WP3 form - ie Laos is not an option)

Then there's the fact that I live in a different province from where the company is based, so have to travel a long way to go to the WP office (twice). Another 10k.

Plus the fact that the company I work for has never done this before, that meant a lot of messing around trying to arrange the absurdly thick stack of documents required (this is hard enough for a farang - Thais should know better than to ask their fellow countrymen to be this organised!) No direct costs of this but a lot of time needed which upped the living and travel expenses.

Medical exam and drug test another 2k.

WP has 2 additional locations where I am authorised to work - another 2k in fees.

3 pages of stamps in my passport - the cost of renewing a UK passport is so astronomical that I value each page at 1,000 THB. So another 3k there.

That's already 40k and doesn't take into account the huge amount of time (working days lost), stress and hassle. And the process is still not over!

So please don't tell me the work permit is not difficult and not expensive! Sure a renewal is a lot easier but first time application is what we are really considering here isn't it?

Sorry you cant include all the costs as each case is different. First off you can go to Laos, I have gone to laos many times to get B visa when mine expired

sometime my work permit was expired too so I had no work permit. All they want are the taxes paid, corp doc and a few others. Your school never doing this before is not an excuse. All they need to do is call and ask what is needed. First time my staff went through this they made a few phone calls and pulled everything together in less than one day. 2K for medical exam and drug test, you got ripped off. should be 500B. 10K to go to labor office your are crazy where did you go? I live in Surin I can drive to BKK and back for about 2000B -2500B in gas. If I take ca bus it's less than 1000B dont know how you get 10K what do you do stay in 5 star hotels and take a taxi everywhere? Anyway all your costs and hassles are due to that you dont how to do things in Thailand. My last trip to Laos to get a new B visa cost me about 4000B plus the cost for the visa. Once you are here for some time you will learn how to do things and costs will come way down. I dont understand how you school has never done this before, guess they are one of the schools that have not been following the rules.

Edited August 24, 2014 by ericthai

[ScotBkk]

ericthai

Sorry you cant include all the costs as each case is different. First off you can go to Laos, I have gone to laos many times to get B visa when mine expired

sometime my work permit was expired too so I had no work permit. All they want are the taxes paid, corp doc and a few others. Your school never doing this before is not an excuse. All they need to do is call and ask what is needed. First time my staff went through this they made a few phone calls and pulled everything together in less than one day. 2K for medical exam and drug test, you got ripped off. should be 500B. 10K to go to labor office your are crazy where did you go? I live in Surin I can drive to BKK and back for about 2000B -2500B in gas. If I take ca bus it's less than 1000B dont know how you get 10K what do you do stay in 5 star hotels and take a taxi everywhere? Anyway all your costs and hassles are due to that you dont how to do things in Thailand. My last trip to Laos to get a new B visa cost me about 4000B plus the cost for the visa. Once you are here for some time you will learn how to do things and costs will come way down. I dont understand how you school has never done this before, guess they are one of the schools that have not been following the rules.

Eric, pissed myselflaughing at your retorts because it was all common sense and pretty crazy how he went about getting his required documentation. Good on you anyway for putting him right and I'm sure it helped others with your info......

[ukrules]

It´s not just about teachers, I guess. I started Internet business about 20 years ago - with the goal to be able to relocate independent. About 10 years ago I did so.

I pay officially and absolutely legal 10 percent tax on this. I have a minimum income of $ 5,000 per month. Additionally I not have any need to work, if I not want - my income is stable. Even just the border runs cost me some money before, but still acceptable. I also opened a company, but it was not possible to make it legal, as they not had any definitions and rules about Internet businesses. So I should make "something" in Bangkok just for having the work permit, but also not really legal. So I picked up my wp, moved to the next counter and gave it back one minute later. I wanted to stay really legal and not just half.

I stayed about 5 years in Thailand. I spent for sure nearly about 1 million Dollar, never worked black or w/o wp. And I know more people, doing Internet business with even more income. Thailand should loose them all. I moved on already. Somewhere else I wrote it: I don´t need Thailand – Thailand also not need our money? Then those rules are just fine.

I tried to make everything legal. But I did not agree to pay so much money and just were able to make it “half legal”. When I see the income of a teacher, it is even just a joke. Just the costs of the border runs are pretty high for them. But here it comes to the next point: do the English teachers need Thailand or needs Thailand English teachers?

And as so many people always try to compare with western countries (just look, how difficult to get a visa etc.): countries like Germany pay a lot money to bring qualified employees to the country. In Thailand you should pay them to bring your knowledge. I also wanted to teach some people about the business, I do. But I´m also not willing to pay, that I´m allowed to do.

And now? “relaxed” border runs? That´s great to make plans for your life – as long as you don´t plan more far then to tomorrow. Make meaningful laws and not stretch laws, as you just need – or simplys accept, that people won´t stay and help you.

Well you sure spent a lot bigger than you were earning.

You spent $1 Million in 5 years yet It would take you 16 years to earn a million at $5k a month ?

[balo]

It´s not just about teachers, I guess. I started Internet business about 20 years ago - with the goal to be able to relocate independent. About 10 years ago I did so.

I pay officially and absolutely legal 10 percent tax on this. I have a minimum income of $ 5,000 per month. Additionally I not have any need to work, if I not want - my income is stable. Even just the border runs cost me some money before, but still acceptable. I also opened a company, but it was not possible to make it legal, as they not had any definitions and rules about Internet businesses. So I should make "something" in Bangkok just for having the work permit, but also not really legal. So I picked up my wp, moved to the next counter and gave it back one minute later. I wanted to stay really legal and not just half.

I stayed about 5 years in Thailand. I spent for sure nearly about 1 million Dollar, never worked black or w/o wp. And I know more people, doing Internet business with even more income. Thailand should loose them all. I moved on already. Somewhere else I wrote it: I don´t need Thailand – Thailand also not need our money? Then those rules are just fine.

I tried to make everything legal. But I did not agree to pay so much money and just were able to make it “half legal”. When I see the income of a teacher, it is even just a joke. Just the costs of the border runs are pretty high for them. But here it comes to the next point: do the English teachers need Thailand or needs Thailand English teachers?

And as so many people always try to compare with western countries (just look, how difficult to get a visa etc.): countries like Germany pay a lot money to bring qualified employees to the country. In Thailand you should pay them to bring your knowledge. I also wanted to teach some people about the business, I do. But I´m also not willing to pay, that I´m allowed to do.

And now? “relaxed” border runs? That´s great to make plans for your life – as long as you don´t plan more far then to tomorrow. Make meaningful laws and not stretch laws, as you just need – or simplys accept, that people won´t stay and help you.

Well you sure spent a lot bigger than you were earning.

You spent $1 Million in 5 years yet It would take you 16 years to earn a million at $5k a month ?

I think he meant 1 million baht .

[Rumpole]

You say the unqualified may not practice law. Pray tell when the quallification for lawyers was introduced in England? I understand it is only recently a degree was required.

Your understanding is incorrect. The solicitors' branch of the English legal profession became graduate-only (not necessarily in law) around 1975 and barristers a couple of years before that. Even before a degree was required for entry, the academic requirements to qualify as either a solicitor or barrister were rigorous, consisting of a series of courses and professional examinations (which in the case of solicitors was one of the most difficult examinations in the UK; many law graduates failed it, some of them repeatedly) and practical in-service training.

Your suggestion that the unqualified are, or have recently been, permitted to practise law in the UK is laughable.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Rumpole

[TheSpade]

This whole issue shouldn't really be about border runners (surely visa runners isn't the correct term as they don't have a visa or is it because they are 'running' away from getting one?) as there are multiple reasons why someone would chose just to do a border run every 30 days rather than fly in and out and do back to back tourist visas.

The issue should be with illegal workers and yet here we are finding out that illegal workers are going to get special treatment and solutions are going to be found to accommodate them.

Yet people who aren't working illegally, not stealing jobs from locals, not breaking the law are going to face scrutiny.

There's little logic there.

The most vitriol I have found on these various topics comes from those who ask why the Thai officialdom does not accommodate those who want to work online as sole practitioners and add nothing to the Thai IT infrastructure online capabilities by virtue especially of providing jobs for Thai citizens within that industry and then -- when you try to answer that question -- heap a bunch of abuse on you as to why YOU don't want them here.

You still banging on about this?

Many online workers are one man and his laptop and don't need staff in Thailand or elsewhere.

They might occasionally hire a freelancer online for a one off job but they certainly don't need nor want 4 Thai employees an office and all the other headaches that go with it. Not to mention the money you're expected to invest.

It would be stupid for someone to jump through all those loopholes just to get a visa when they don't need nor want any of the crap that comes with it.

Especially when they are digital nomads and don't plan to live in Thailand for the rest of their lives PLUS enjoy the freedom they currently have that lets them go elsewhere at a moments notice.

Why don't the guys on retirement visas go about providing jobs for locals?

What makes them so special that they can go to Thailand and live there without issue just because they can show a bank statement with some cash?

Wouldn't it be fair if they investment money into the country and provided jobs for locals?

No doesn't make any sense does it?

Just like it doesn't make any sense for someone with an online business who's location independent and a one man band to be providing jobs for the locals just because they happen to spend a bit of time in the country every now and then.

If Thailand want's people to invest in it's IT and online economy then it should make it easy to do so or provide an incentive for people to come here and do it.

Just like Chile did with Start Up Chile when they decided to turn Santiago into the biggest start up community in the world.

• Aim is to attract early stage start up companies to bootstrap their businesses in Chile with a focus on online start ups.
• Provides them with $40,000 USD seed-free capital.
• Gives them a 1 year, hassle free, visa.
• Access to social and capital networks.

Read about it here: http://www.startupchile.org/about/

Talk about a country that get's it.

Expecting someone who is barely even welcome in the country or at best unrecognized to be investing and providing jobs is plain stupid.

[arisaje]

@ nicolas18 What makes you think Thailand needs cash of western teachers?

What the hell can western teachers on their salary contribute to Thailand? other than genuine Businessmen and genuine Tourists who are in Thailand legally.......then the rest of the people who come and stay are usually pretty poor and the ones Thailand can do without.

Thailand in actual fact is a pretty wealthy country in reality, just because it isn't spent correctly is another matter.

European countries are not developing......but most of them are broke and up to the necks in debt......but they have nice roads and clean streets.

My post was not specifically about teachers, but about visa runners.

To address your other point, I stand corrected. Thailand is indeed a wealthy country, where the minimum wage is 50K/month, with top-notch infrastructure and a generous social security scheme to take care of the needy. To think I was living in the Dubai of the East and I didn't even realize it.

You obviously don't know a lot about 'global economies' if you think Dubai is a rich country and you think Dubai is anywhere near as wealthy as Thailand?

In the global monetary standings of all 193 countries.....did you know Thailand is in the top 30. Whereas Dubai on its own (outside of the UAE) comes just inside the top 60.

Dubai is built totally on internal debt and foreign investment. If you compared it in global economic terms, Dubai is about the same level as Angola or Bangladesh.......but a lot poorer than Vietnam, Romania, Algeria and even Ireland etc.

Dubai has some glitzy hotels and offices (paid for by, foreigners) it has no sustainable business but is trying so desperately hard to have something to hold onto. It has now and will for sometime to come, relying solely on tourism and offering tax free living to keep boosting its population.

If they had the recent political issues in Dubai like Thailand had.....and all the expats left....Dubai would be flat broke in less than 6 months and needing another $25billion loan to pays its police force, government officials and street cleaners like they did a few years ago.

Now if you had said Abu Dhabi thats a different story as it has huge oil and gas reserves.....but even combined as a whole, all 7 emirates as the 'UAE' it is still not wealthier Thailand.

According to the World Bank, United Nations and International Monetary Fund reports for the past 3 or 4 years.....Thailand always ranks higher than the UAE (Abu Dhabi, Dubai etc.) and always will; Why because the UAE oil and gas reserves are declining and therefore their wealth shrinking.

Dubai is clean yes, but its debt ridden and has a possible life of about 40 years, until their money runs out and people bored with vacationing there.