When is visa not a visa ?

[bertty]

I would say half the time, but I'd be lying, so I'll say 99% of the time I have no idea the difference between a visa or an extension to stay.

Looking at the thread on 10 mill investors, Plenty of the links tell you, you will get a visa. Then people say it's not a visa. So why do official site/embassies around the world call these things visas if they are not visas ?

Is it just a case of trying to baffle with ballcrap

[ubonjoe]

Embassies and consulates issue visas.

Immigration does extensions of stay.

The only visa immigration will do is one based upon qualifying for certain extensions of stay and you do not really get a visa you get a 90 day entry from it.

A visa only allows you to enter the country and be given the permit to stay it allows. Once you are in the country you are no longer on a visa you are on a permit to stay.

[bertty]

Ah so all rather simple then. Thanks.

What shall i worry about next.

[moe666]

The non-o visa I entered Thailand on has expired a few years ago now I go to immigration, not an Embassy, and it states on the stamp Application of stay is permitted up to 21 December 2014. Applicant must leave the Kingdom from within the date specified herein Offenders will be prosecuted. The key word is application of stay, no where does it say VISA.

[bertty]

The non-o visa I entered Thailand on has expired a few years ago now I go to immigration, not an Embassy, and it states on the stamp Application of stay is permitted up to 21 December 2014. Applicant must leave the Kingdom from within the date specified herein Offenders will be prosecuted. The key word is application of stay, no where does it say VISA.

So your application to stay means you have to leave the country ?

Or do you just get another stamp and not have to leave ?

[Soutpeel]

The non-o visa I entered Thailand on has expired a few years ago now I go to immigration, not an Embassy, and it states on the stamp Application of stay is permitted up to 21 December 2014. Applicant must leave the Kingdom from within the date specified herein Offenders will be prosecuted. The key word is application of stay, no where does it say VISA.

So your application to stay means you have to leave the country ?

Or do you just get another stamp and not have to leave ?

In the Thailand context, having permission stay means you can remain country right upto the date specified, but you do 90 day reports and not have to leave the country and provided you renew your extension of stay prior to the expiry date stated, you just get a new stamp

[bertty]

The non-o visa I entered Thailand on has expired a few years ago now I go to immigration, not an Embassy, and it states on the stamp Application of stay is permitted up to 21 December 2014. Applicant must leave the Kingdom from within the date specified herein Offenders will be prosecuted. The key word is application of stay, no where does it say VISA.

So your application to stay means you have to leave the country ?

Or do you just get another stamp and not have to leave ?

In the Thailand context, having permission stay means you can remain country right upto the date specified, but you do 90 day reports and not have to leave the country and provided you renew your extension of stay prior to the expiry date stated, you just get a new stamp

So then as the man says nowhere on his stamp does it say VISA, yet it does say he has to leave the country. Yet he doesn't have to leave the country.

The more people try to simplify things, the more complicated they seem to get.

The joys of legalities.

[ubonjoe]

He didn't get it exactly correct when he wrote his post. Here is a extension stamp.

[Maestro]

Like with so many other things, it can vary from one immigration office to the next. Some offices are known to have used, and perhaps still use, an extension stamp saying "application of stay is permitted up to <date>", for example:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VxB8_NkVuw8/TomwfIFYBVI/AAAAAAAAJVk/Dqeyw2PS_qs/s351/Extension%2520volunteer%2520teacher%2520Tak%252020040203.jpg Tak

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JQFMomTPavE/TomwKU1gKtI/AAAAAAAAJVk/E1nMtRoVS-c/s502/Extension%2520Thai%2520wife%2520approved%2520Samui%252020080911.jpg Samui

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KaaU1xynb6Y/TomwVwqJKkI/AAAAAAAAJVk/vs857PLS4bc/s582/Extension%2520Thai%2520wife%2520approved%2520Phuket%252020061103.jpg Phuket

[Suradit69]

A visa or re-entry permit allows you to enter the country ... assuming immigrations agrees to let you in.

Immigrations grants you permission to remain in the country, sets the conditions and length of your stay, and may allow you an extension of (the permission to) stay.

Any foreigner legally present in Thailand is here based on the permission to stay given him by immigrations, even though in many/most cases the visa he used to enter the country is no longer valid.

Visas are never extended. They expire on the date printed on them or become invalid sooner if they have been fully used for entry/entries to the country. Permission to stay may be extended.

[Estrada]

Embassies and consulates issue visas.

Immigration does extensions of stay.

The only visa immigration will do is one based upon qualifying for certain extensions of stay and you do not really get a visa you get a 90 day entry from it.

A visa only allows you to enter the country and be given the permit to stay it allows. Once you are in the country you are no longer on a visa you are on a permit to stay.

I came in on a tourist 30 day permit. I then went to Immgration and applied for a Category "O" Visa based on retirement. They gave me a typical visa stamp, stamped in large letters "NON-IMMIGRANT VISA" Category "O", and then gave me a 3 month permission to stay. I then went back 2 months later and got an extension based on retirement, based on B800K in a Thai Bank.

The question is how is this Non-Immgrant Type "O" Visa not really a VISA, since it clearly is? It is stamped as a VISA and the same as a VISA obtained outside the country, is immediately stamped "USED" and a 3 month stay stamp given in your passport.

[wayned]

Read sentence number 3 in his explanation! It is one case where an actual visa is issued n immigration!

[stevenl]

It really is very, very simple see post number 2 in this thread. The wording on the stamps and the 1-2 exceptions to the rule only confuse people, the principle is as outlined in post # 2.

[CMBob]

Embassies and consulates issue visas.

Immigration does extensions of stay.

Well, not always.

While I appreciate the falang visa experts here and elsewhere doing their best to keep everyone on the definitional straight and narrow, sometimes I wonder if those falang get a bit too over-excited about their precise coding of the immigration/visa language. For example only:

(1) I obtained a Non-O Immigrant Visa (90-day) from Hua Hin immigration. Yes, it's a visa and is clearly stamped at the top "NON IMMIGRANT VISA."

(2) Even what the experts refer to as an "exemption and most definitely not a visa" has a stamped line which reads "VISA CLASS."

(3) When chatting with a couple of immigration officers in Chiangmai, I asked them (pointing to my retirement visa...whoops, one-year extension of stay based on retirement) if this stamp was a "visa" or an "extension of stay." The first guy's response: "Same same!" The second guy's response: "It is your retirement visa." When I mentioned that some falang get a little irritated when somebody refers to it as a "visa" and not an "extension of stay", one officer just laughed and the other looked to the first one and clearly said "ฝรั่งบ้า" (and I'd note that he made it clear he wasn't referring to me).

Some people - including immigration officers and embassy personnel - think of a "visa" as permission to enter and/or stay in a country; others, however, think of it as only permission to be in or stay in a country. For example only, one gets a large stamp when entering Laos which is titled "Visa On Arrival." When I received that stamp, I'm guessing they gave me permission to enter after I got there? Or, arguably and technically, one doesn't really enter a country legally until they clear immigration (which, for example, is the legal reason that even a US citizen isn't afforded his/her full or normal US rights until after he/she have cleared immigration when returning home).

All (many) of my falang friends refer to their "extensions of stay based on retirement" as their "retirement visas" and I've never heard anybody refer to it as their extension of stay (well, other than on the internet). Nobody to my knowledge has ever been confused by such language even when an occasional short-term tourist says he or she got the "30-day visa" on arrival or at the airport.

Ubonjoe, I don't have any issue with you and am not intending to take a swipe at you; however, I'm just using your one line there about visas not being issued by immigration offices and the original OP to make a few comments about related matters.

[LivinLOS]

^^ People incorrectly classifying things, especially complex ones, is nothing new..

[JLCrab]

The procedure most likely described in Post #14 Item (1) at Hua Hin Immigration was a Change of Visa status which is not the same as an issuance of visa.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/pdf/tm86.pdf

[AYJAYDEE]

Embassies and consulates issue visas.

Immigration does extensions of stay.

Well, not always.

While I appreciate the falang visa experts here and elsewhere doing their best to keep everyone on the definitional straight and narrow, sometimes I wonder if those falang get a bit too over-excited about their precise coding of the immigration/visa language. For example only:

(1) I obtained a Non-O Immigrant Visa (90-day) from Hua Hin immigration. Yes, it's a visa and is clearly stamped at the top "NON IMMIGRANT VISA."

(2) Even what the experts refer to as an "exemption and most definitely not a visa" has a stamped line which reads "VISA CLASS."

(3) When chatting with a couple of immigration officers in Chiangmai, I asked them (pointing to my retirement visa...whoops, one-year extension of stay based on retirement) if this stamp was a "visa" or an "extension of stay." The first guy's response: "Same same!" The second guy's response: "It is your retirement visa." When I mentioned that some falang get a little irritated when somebody refers to it as a "visa" and not an "extension of stay", one officer just laughed and the other looked to the first one and clearly said "ฝรั่งบ้า" (and I'd note that he made it clear he wasn't referring to me).

Some people - including immigration officers and embassy personnel - think of a "visa" as permission to enter and/or stay in a country; others, however, think of it as only permission to be in or stay in a country. For example only, one gets a large stamp when entering Laos which is titled "Visa On Arrival." When I received that stamp, I'm guessing they gave me permission to enter after I got there? Or, arguably and technically, one doesn't really enter a country legally until they clear immigration (which, for example, is the legal reason that even a US citizen isn't afforded his/her full or normal US rights until after he/she have cleared immigration when returning home).

All (many) of my falang friends refer to their "extensions of stay based on retirement" as their "retirement visas" and I've never heard anybody refer to it as their extension of stay (well, other than on the internet). Nobody to my knowledge has ever been confused by such language even when an occasional short-term tourist says he or she got the "30-day visa" on arrival or at the airport.

Ubonjoe, I don't have any issue with you and am not intending to take a swipe at you; however, I'm just using your one line there about visas not being issued by immigration offices and the original OP to make a few comments about related matters.

it doesnt really matter what individual immigration officers think. the only thing that is official is what the legislation and the police orders say. I'm interested to know on what basis you got into the country that allowed you to get to Hua Hin to get this Non-O visa.

[moe666]

A tells B, B tells c and C tell A by the time A hears it what has it become. Go to an Embassy and ask for a extension of stay and see what you get

[moe666]

Embassies and consulates issue visas.

Immigration does extensions of stay.

Well, not always.

While I appreciate the falang visa experts here and elsewhere doing their best to keep everyone on the definitional straight and narrow, sometimes I wonder if those falang get a bit too over-excited about their precise coding of the immigration/visa language. For example only:

(1) I obtained a Non-O Immigrant Visa (90-day) from Hua Hin immigration. Yes, it's a visa and is clearly stamped at the top "NON IMMIGRANT VISA."

(2) Even what the experts refer to as an "exemption and most definitely not a visa" has a stamped line which reads "VISA CLASS."

(3) When chatting with a couple of immigration officers in Chiangmai, I asked them (pointing to my retirement visa...whoops, one-year extension of stay based on retirement) if this stamp was a "visa" or an "extension of stay." The first guy's response: "Same same!" The second guy's response: "It is your retirement visa." When I mentioned that some falang get a little irritated when somebody refers to it as a "visa" and not an "extension of stay", one officer just laughed and the other looked to the first one and clearly said "ฝรั่งบ้า" (and I'd note that he made it clear he wasn't referring to me).

Some people - including immigration officers and embassy personnel - think of a "visa" as permission to enter and/or stay in a country; others, however, think of it as only permission to be in or stay in a country. For example only, one gets a large stamp when entering Laos which is titled "Visa On Arrival." When I received that stamp, I'm guessing they gave me permission to enter after I got there? Or, arguably and technically, one doesn't really enter a country legally until they clear immigration (which, for example, is the legal reason that even a US citizen isn't afforded his/her full or normal US rights until after he/she have cleared immigration when returning home).

All (many) of my falang friends refer to their "extensions of stay based on retirement" as their "retirement visas" and I've never heard anybody refer to it as their extension of stay (well, other than on the internet). Nobody to my knowledge has ever been confused by such language even when an occasional short-term tourist says he or she got the "30-day visa" on arrival or at the airport.

Ubonjoe, I don't have any issue with you and am not intending to take a swipe at you; however, I'm just using your one line there about visas not being issued by immigration offices and the original OP to make a few comments about related matters.

Have you applied yet at CM immigration, if and when you do it will say permit to stay and no where on the stamp will it say visa, I have 4 permitted to stay stamps from CM immigration for retirement nothing about a visa on any of them.

[mahjongguy]

An Immigration officer may laugh about someone who makes a big point about the difference between a visa and an extension.

That same officer would have no sympathy for someone who thought he had a retirement visa and didn't get a re-entry permit.

[JDGRUEN]

OP ... to get better clarity on what your status is ... I recommend that you make a simplified post with the following information.

What was the original visa you were given before you entered Thailand (Example: Non Immigrant Category 'O' Multi Entry - or Single 90 day stay ? Or is it Non Imm Category 'O-A'? Or did you first enter on another visa category?

What is the issue date on your original Visa Sticker in your passport?

What date did you first enter Thailand with that visa?

Did you make Border Runs to get additional 90 day stays?

What is the Enter Before Date on that visa sticker?

Have you exited Thailand after entering under any circumstance?

Did you apply for and receive an Extension of Stay based on Retirement or other factor?

What I am saying OP is that listing in chronological the dates of certain events and using the language / terminology that is on a Visa Sticker or Stamp in your Passport in some sort of logical arrangement will allow the experts on Thaivisa forums to help you with more more exactness.

Many of us have had periods when we found some of the terminology baffling and at times still do... But I suggest to try to use the terminology that the experts use and what is in your passport.

If you do what I suggest and provide clarification as requested I am of the opinion you will get a correct answer rather quickly.

Just try it - okay?

[stevenl]

Embassies and consulates issue visas.

Immigration does extensions of stay.

Well, not always.

While I appreciate the falang visa experts here and elsewhere doing their best to keep everyone on the definitional straight and narrow, sometimes I wonder if those falang get a bit too over-excited about their precise coding of the immigration/visa language. For example only:

(1) I obtained a Non-O Immigrant Visa (90-day) from Hua Hin immigration. Yes, it's a visa and is clearly stamped at the top "NON IMMIGRANT VISA."

(2) Even what the experts refer to as an "exemption and most definitely not a visa" has a stamped line which reads "VISA CLASS."

(3) When chatting with a couple of immigration officers in Chiangmai, I asked them (pointing to my retirement visa...whoops, one-year extension of stay based on retirement) if this stamp was a "visa" or an "extension of stay." The first guy's response: "Same same!" The second guy's response: "It is your retirement visa." When I mentioned that some falang get a little irritated when somebody refers to it as a "visa" and not an "extension of stay", one officer just laughed and the other looked to the first one and clearly said "ฝรั่งบ้า" (and I'd note that he made it clear he wasn't referring to me).

Some people - including immigration officers and embassy personnel - think of a "visa" as permission to enter and/or stay in a country; others, however, think of it as only permission to be in or stay in a country. For example only, one gets a large stamp when entering Laos which is titled "Visa On Arrival." When I received that stamp, I'm guessing they gave me permission to enter after I got there? Or, arguably and technically, one doesn't really enter a country legally until they clear immigration (which, for example, is the legal reason that even a US citizen isn't afforded his/her full or normal US rights until after he/she have cleared immigration when returning home).

All (many) of my falang friends refer to their "extensions of stay based on retirement" as their "retirement visas" and I've never heard anybody refer to it as their extension of stay (well, other than on the internet). Nobody to my knowledge has ever been confused by such language even when an occasional short-term tourist says he or she got the "30-day visa" on arrival or at the airport.

Ubonjoe, I don't have any issue with you and am not intending to take a swipe at you; however, I'm just using your one line there about visas not being issued by immigration offices and the original OP to make a few comments about related matters.

Nice example of unnecessarily complicating and confusing the issue.

[CMBob]

Have you applied yet at CM immigration, if and when you do it will say permit to stay and no where on the stamp will it say visa, I have 4 permitted to stay stamps from CM immigration for retirement nothing about a visa on any of them.

Yes, as many times as you and you're right, they all are the usual annual extensions of stay and do not use the word "visa" anywhere. And I understand the consequences of using the phrase "retirement visa" on this site; regardless, my point on that issue is that all my falang friends in Chiangmai (and Hua Hin, Bangkok, Pattaya, etc.) refer to it as a retirement visa and none of us get confused about it. And, as noted, at least a couple of the Chiangmai Immigration officers also refer to it as such.

In answer to another's question, I came into the country many years ago with a 60-day Tourist visa issued in the US. Because I couldn't apply for the retirement extension based on that visa, the Hua Hin office simply cancelled that visa and then issued me the referenced Non-O Visa. I also happened to obtain my first retirement extension on the same date (but which expired 15 months later). And got all of that done in about 35 minutes!

[AYJAYDEE]

Have you applied yet at CM immigration, if and when you do it will say permit to stay and no where on the stamp will it say visa, I have 4 permitted to stay stamps from CM immigration for retirement nothing about a visa on any of them.

Yes, as many times as you and you're right, they all are the usual annual extensions of stay and do not use the word "visa" anywhere. And I understand the consequences of using the phrase "retirement visa" on this site; regardless, my point on that issue is that all my falang friends in Chiangmai (and Hua Hin, Bangkok, Pattaya, etc.) refer to it as a retirement visa and none of us get confused about it. And, as noted, at least a couple of the Chiangmai Immigration officers also refer to it as such.

In answer to another's question, I came into the country many years ago with a 60-day Tourist visa issued in the US. Because I couldn't apply for the retirement extension based on that visa, the Hua Hin office simply cancelled that visa and then issued me the referenced Non-O Visa. I also happened to obtain my first retirement extension on the same date (but which expired 15 months later). And got all of that done in about 35 minutes!

but it confuses many that come here for advice and information. and your visa was simply converted.