Video of James Foley beheading 'may have been staged'

[Goshawk]

I don't know what it looks like to cut someone's throat and behead them. but the video most certainly appears to be staged, not an actual execution.

i do . . i saw one a few years ago (a genuine one) and it is the most horrific thing i've ever experienced. The blood flows immediately, the screams are penetrating, it's an awful thing to witness and it affected me for quite some time after.

edit: i got over it . . but it hardened, then strengthened, the soul to understand what evil is capable of.

@ Goshawk unfortunately this innocent reporter was certainly killed by decapitation, although it is probably feasible to say that the killer had some issues with his beheading using the knife that was in the video.

It probably was an issue, a blunt knife or the killer panicked and couldn't go through with it once he started. Which makes it possible they had to cut the video and jump to a picture of the headless body later. Cutting out the confusion and problems that happened during the incident.

if that assessment of this event satisfies you . . . then do continue along that safe, un-challenging path. It's your absolute right to do so.

[schondie]

the video was faked to make it acceptable for mass viewing on prime time news channels and get the message across which was basically saying the death of the next American depends on what Obama does next thus putting the pressure on him to call off the bombings of the ISIS troops...which of course he wont because they have control of lucrative oil fields around Kirkut and Obamas sponsors aren't happy...they killed him off camera at a later time and even then staged the result so it didn't look as bad ( very little blood)...they are clever these people and understand the power of the media

Yes, the lack of blood seems a little weird. A few years ago I saw a couple of men being beheaded by Russian Nazis on a shock website and this latest one is a little too clean.

As Lincoln said "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time"

[Scott]

Conspiracy theory post deleted.

[Aldebaran1981]

are the elite planning another war?

[Steely Dan]

In the words of Hillary Clinton 'What difference does it make?', IS have already committed atrocities on a vast scale, killing 600 in one day being an example. IS need to be destroyed, it will not be easy, it will be a war without borders but the fate of modern civilization depends on it.

[Franky Bear]

In the words of Hillary Clinton 'What difference does it make?', IS have already committed atrocities on a vast scale, killing 600 in one day being an example. IS need to be destroyed, it will not be easy, it will be a war without borders but the fate of modern civilization depends on it.

Wrong to use such an evil woman as a example. But the Kung is right. Who cares? This mob are a worry

[arjunadawn]

Graphic post!

I had various observations about the Foley video and have considered the various theories suggested something is amiss. I noted a few things, one being why he had no hair? In my final analysis the lack of hair really explains something, and also helps cement my final opinion the video is likely real.

I cannot answer why there was no hair. I can answer why the video cut away at the beheading. Also, on an open plain like this I suspect the microphone was near or attached to the killer (reduce air artifact). Therefore, one can clearly hear air escaping the trachea. Awful. I can't explain the lack of blood other than frames per second somehow missed this? But why the video cut away? This single event has promoted conspiracy theories. I believe the answer is stupidity and bungling. If one looks to the head of Foley (may he rest in peace) you'll note a real bloody mess, fingerprints, etc. They could not manage his head and behead him effectively. It is therefore likely a far worse a death than might even be imagined. This poor man spoke with finality and dignity, strength while terrified, and they botched the death even further because there was no point, besides a slippery jaw, to grasp. Had the entire video been shown it would show incompetence and ridicule. Also, the final scene appears to have have a different knife nearby (IMO).

Edited August 26, 2014 by arjunadawn

[H1w4yR1da]

No company name given, no way to check the veracity of this claim. More useless rumor mongering.

" ...that has worked for police forces across Britain ..."

Somehow that phrase raises more concerns than assurances. Are all these police forces (??) unable to cope with fairly basic forensics? Do they typically call in at a Copyworld shop or drop stuff off at a Kodak kiosk for analysis?

Let's just say they're light years ahead of what you'll find with the RTP.But then again, that's not saying much!

[Steely Dan]

Graphic post!

I had various observations about the Foley video and have considered the various theories suggested something is amiss. I noted a few things, one being why he had no hair? In my final analysis the lack of hair really explains something, and also helps cement my final opinion the video is likely real.

I cannot answer why there was no hair. I can answer why the video cut away at the beheading. Also, on an open plain like this I suspect the microphone was near or attached to the killer (reduce air artifact). Therefore, one can clearly hear air escaping the trachea. Awful. I can't explain the lack of blood other than frames per second somehow missed this? But why the video cut away? This single event has promoted conspiracy theories. I believe the answer is stupidity and bungling. If one looks to the head of Foley (may he rest in peace) you'll note a real bloody mess, fingerprints, etc. They could not manage his head and behead him effectively. It is therefore likely a far worse a death than might even be imagined. This poor man spoke with finality and dignity, strength while terrified, and they botched the death even further because there was no point, besides a slippery jaw, to grasp. Had the entire video been shown it would show incompetence and ridicule. Also, the final scene appears to have have a different knife nearby (IMO).

I wish I hadn't read your post and never for a minute did I want to see the video. You know it takes the spirit down into a dark place even reading about an ideology of pure evil, little wonder the civilized world wants to first turn away and if pressed argue it's not our problem. The leading Christian cleric in Mosul said that what befell the Christians in Iraq will eventually reach the Christians of Europe, it is their fight like it or not. I suppose at least by the time wholesale decapitation reaches Eurabia the practitioners may be a little bit more practiced and may even adopt a 17th century French invention called the guillotine, that should keep moral relativists happy for a while longer.

[arjunadawn]

Graphic post!

I had various observations about the Foley video and have considered the various theories suggested something is amiss. I noted a few things, one being why he had no hair? In my final analysis the lack of hair really explains something, and also helps cement my final opinion the video is likely real.

I cannot answer why there was no hair. I can answer why the video cut away at the beheading. Also, on an open plain like this I suspect the microphone was near or attached to the killer (reduce air artifact). Therefore, one can clearly hear air escaping the trachea. Awful. I can't explain the lack of blood other than frames per second somehow missed this? But why the video cut away? This single event has promoted conspiracy theories. I believe the answer is stupidity and bungling. If one looks to the head of Foley (may he rest in peace) you'll note a real bloody mess, fingerprints, etc. They could not manage his head and behead him effectively. It is therefore likely a far worse a death than might even be imagined. This poor man spoke with finality and dignity, strength while terrified, and they botched the death even further because there was no point, besides a slippery jaw, to grasp. Had the entire video been shown it would show incompetence and ridicule. Also, the final scene appears to have have a different knife nearby (IMO).

I wish I hadn't read your post and never for a minute did I want to see the video. You know it takes the spirit down into a dark place even reading about an ideology of pure evil, little wonder the civilized world wants to first turn away and if pressed argue it's not our problem. The leading Christian cleric in Mosul said that what befell the Christians in Iraq will eventually reach the Christians of Europe, it is their fight like it or not. I suppose at least by the time wholesale decapitation reaches Eurabia the practitioners may be a little bit more practiced and may even adopt a 17th century French invention called the guillotine, that should keep moral relativists happy for a while longer.

I am sorry. It was after I wrote my thoughts I decided to indicate a header it was graphic. But nothing was gratuitous or in poor taste, not really. My effort was solely to be thoughtful about something current, and of great importance. Having said that, I am in total agreement that bad things are coming. I am a fan of author Malcolm Gladwell. I find his books quite brilliant on the nature of collective human behavior, such as his book "The Tipping Point." There comes a time in social equations where a gravity exists and behaviors or fads take on a life of their own. I regret that I feel the latest atrocities out of the middle east give voice to suppressed rage in like minded people in the west. I do believe it is a very short matter of time before we begin seeing such things in the west. Indeed, a few have already happened. There is a collective... i guess tipping point as he described it, and then a watershed. I think this happens with horrible ideologies as well. After all, this is not about religion, not in any meaningful, intelligible sense of the word. This is about brutal power and authority. I advise all inquiring minds to familiarize themselves with Taqiyya. If you would appreciate what we face, then know.. really know something about this fundamental mindset that governs islamic interactions with non muslims. This is a good place to start http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

(Middle East Forum- Taqiyya)

[Steely Dan]

Graphic post!

I had various observations about the Foley video and have considered the various theories suggested something is amiss. I noted a few things, one being why he had no hair? In my final analysis the lack of hair really explains something, and also helps cement my final opinion the video is likely real.

I cannot answer why there was no hair. I can answer why the video cut away at the beheading. Also, on an open plain like this I suspect the microphone was near or attached to the killer (reduce air artifact). Therefore, one can clearly hear air escaping the trachea. Awful. I can't explain the lack of blood other than frames per second somehow missed this? But why the video cut away? This single event has promoted conspiracy theories. I believe the answer is stupidity and bungling. If one looks to the head of Foley (may he rest in peace) you'll note a real bloody mess, fingerprints, etc. They could not manage his head and behead him effectively. It is therefore likely a far worse a death than might even be imagined. This poor man spoke with finality and dignity, strength while terrified, and they botched the death even further because there was no point, besides a slippery jaw, to grasp. Had the entire video been shown it would show incompetence and ridicule. Also, the final scene appears to have have a different knife nearby (IMO).

I wish I hadn't read your post and never for a minute did I want to see the video. You know it takes the spirit down into a dark place even reading about an ideology of pure evil, little wonder the civilized world wants to first turn away and if pressed argue it's not our problem. The leading Christian cleric in Mosul said that what befell the Christians in Iraq will eventually reach the Christians of Europe, it is their fight like it or not. I suppose at least by the time wholesale decapitation reaches Eurabia the practitioners may be a little bit more practiced and may even adopt a 17th century French invention called the guillotine, that should keep moral relativists happy for a while longer.

I am sorry. It was after I wrote my thoughts I decided to indicate a header it was graphic. But nothing was gratuitous or in poor taste, not really. My effort was solely to be thoughtful about something current, and of great importance. Having said that, I am in total agreement that bad things are coming. I am a fan of author Malcolm Gladwell. I find his books quite brilliant on the nature of collective human behavior, such as his book "The Tipping Point." There comes a time in social equations where a gravity exists and behaviors or fads take on a life of their own. I regret that I feel the latest atrocities out of the middle east give voice to suppressed rage in like minded people in the west. I do believe it is a very short matter of time before we begin seeing such things in the west. Indeed, a few have already happened. There is a collective... i guess tipping point as he described it, and then a watershed. I think this happens with horrible ideologies as well. After all, this is not about religion, not in any meaningful, intelligible sense of the word. This is about brutal power and authority. I advise all inquiring minds to familiarize themselves with Taqiyya. If you would appreciate what we face, then know.. really know something about this fundamental mindset that governs islamic interactions with non muslims. This is a good place to start http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

(Middle East Forum- Taqiyya)

As I have remarked before this is the defining struggle of our age, I too have read about it In some detail. Here is something I had earmarked for the other thread, but seeing as you have taken us close enough to my intended remarks here goes;-

For those who still can't grasp the danger we face 92% of Saudis polled believe that IS conforms to Islamic law and values.

http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/92-of-saudis-believes-that-isis-conforms-to-the-values-of-islam-and-islamic-law-survey/

Talking of Taqiyya we have already been fed the one about a high ranking Saudi Imam condemning ISIS, trouble is about 8% of Saudis appear to agree with him. If the Saudi domino falls the consequences don't need spelling out. Little wonder the UAE/Egypt decided to take matters into their own hands to try and stop Islamist rebels in Libya, acting behind the back of a 'concerned' US, who we have already remarked seem to be batting for the other side.

[arjunadawn]

As I have remarked before this is the defining struggle of our age, I too have read about it In some detail. Here is something I had earmarked for the other thread, but seeing as you have taken us close enough to my intended remarks here goes;-

For those who still can't grasp the danger we face 92% of Saudis polled believe that IS conforms to Islamic law and values.

http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/92-of-saudis-believes-that-isis-conforms-to-the-values-of-islam-and-islamic-law-survey/

Talking of Taqiyya we have already been fed the one about a high ranking Saudi Imam condemning ISIS, trouble is about 8% of Saudis appear to agree with him. If the Saudi domino falls the consequences don't need spelling out. Little wonder the UAE/Egypt decided to take matters into their own hands to try and stop Islamist rebels in Libya, acting behind the back of a 'concerned' US, who we have already remarked seem to be batting for the other side.

And there it is... the context in which this beheading has/is happened[ing]. Saudi Arabia has always existed as an illegitimate House of Saud, insofar as the local muslims are concerned. I admit no matter my effort to really grasp it I still cant fathom the Great Game SA is playing. SA funds Whabbis and clearly many radicals. They have done this for some time well beyond the point of placating a populace. They fund and radicalize abroad as well. Their money and fingerprints simply are all over 9/11, and many more connections. SA is behind many dubious mosques throughout the western world; mosques that really operate as forward operating bases, militarily. There was an exceptionally large one up the street from me in Islamabad. The US and Eurpoe also have these... mosques.

SA seems to be significantly funding IS, but perhaps not now. This contradiction is confusing. Could it really be their creation (and the USA) has so gotten out of hand? I tend to think not. I actually think their funding IS and declaring outrage in order to purchase plausible dependability. The utility of IS to offset Iranian hegemony is already a greater benefit. I had noted previously the US bombing of IS was not to be confused with total objection, only a protesting child who exceeded their authority and turned north toward the Kurds.

Hamas, players in Turkey, and significant machinery within the IS constellation of jihadists are Muslim Brotherhood. As I have noted elsewhere, Israel and the US, the less and greater Satan respectively, are not primary targets of islamists, rather regional strongmen operating monarchies or quasi secular states are blasphemous, and first targets. Thus UAE, indeed, the GCC, and Egypt are clearly allied against the MB. The overlapping interests and very survival demands they destroy the political and fund raising machinery of the MB, yet not the ground players; not yet. It is in this larger context that the Foley execution has taken place. If the US uses IS as a pretext to finally enter the Syrian conflict, will they really need IS any longer? Would the US really ally Assad? Would the US fully eradicate IS, handing Assad, and Russia, a total victory? Hardly. The West and SA still need IS to further fracture Iraq.

The breadth of what needs to be learned by even average people in order to grasp the threats is considerable. However, there are reputable sites that make sense and distill the central concepts into easy to digest sections. Anything that is ever read about Islam should always have citations. If it does not, do not read it. Read only what references Islamic Law to understand the context in which Foley was killed. (Trying to keep in on thread).

[arisaje]

Graphic post!

I had various observations about the Foley video and have considered the various theories suggested something is amiss. I noted a few things, one being why he had no hair? In my final analysis the lack of hair really explains something, and also helps cement my final opinion the video is likely real.

I cannot answer why there was no hair. I can answer why the video cut away at the beheading. Also, on an open plain like this I suspect the microphone was near or attached to the killer (reduce air artifact). Therefore, one can clearly hear air escaping the trachea. Awful. I can't explain the lack of blood other than frames per second somehow missed this? But why the video cut away? This single event has promoted conspiracy theories. I believe the answer is stupidity and bungling. If one looks to the head of Foley (may he rest in peace) you'll note a real bloody mess, fingerprints, etc. They could not manage his head and behead him effectively. It is therefore likely a far worse a death than might even be imagined. This poor man spoke with finality and dignity, strength while terrified, and they botched the death even further because there was no point, besides a slippery jaw, to grasp. Had the entire video been shown it would show incompetence and ridicule. Also, the final scene appears to have have a different knife nearby (IMO).

Well said, i think your observations are pretty accurate.

The very sad fact though these 'murderers' are doing this every day over there, men, women and children.

I think its actually about time the Arab nations in the Gulf, with all their money and military hardware went to sort these IS terrorists out instead of hiding behind the West all the time.

[arjunadawn]

Graphic post!

I had various observations about the Foley video and have considered the various theories suggested something is amiss. I noted a few things, one being why he had no hair? In my final analysis the lack of hair really explains something, and also helps cement my final opinion the video is likely real.

I cannot answer why there was no hair. I can answer why the video cut away at the beheading. Also, on an open plain like this I suspect the microphone was near or attached to the killer (reduce air artifact). Therefore, one can clearly hear air escaping the trachea. Awful. I can't explain the lack of blood other than frames per second somehow missed this? But why the video cut away? This single event has promoted conspiracy theories. I believe the answer is stupidity and bungling. If one looks to the head of Foley (may he rest in peace) you'll note a real bloody mess, fingerprints, etc. They could not manage his head and behead him effectively. It is therefore likely a far worse a death than might even be imagined. This poor man spoke with finality and dignity, strength while terrified, and they botched the death even further because there was no point, besides a slippery jaw, to grasp. Had the entire video been shown it would show incompetence and ridicule. Also, the final scene appears to have have a different knife nearby (IMO).

Well said, i think your observations are pretty accurate.

The very sad fact though these 'murderers' are doing this every day over there, men, women and children.

I think its actually about time the Arab nations in the Gulf, with all their money and military hardware went to sort these IS terrorists out instead of hiding behind the West all the time.

Yea, but IMO, I hold a number of regional players are directly motivating and funding IS- Qatar, Turkey, US, SA, perhaps others but others are only inferred. This is not an out of control grassroots radical islamism thing. This is a concerted, funded, developed, trained army with a very specific purpose in mind.

[schondie]

Graphic post!

I had various observations about the Foley video and have considered the various theories suggested something is amiss. I noted a few things, one being why he had no hair? In my final analysis the lack of hair really explains something, and also helps cement my final opinion the video is likely real.

I cannot answer why there was no hair. I can answer why the video cut away at the beheading. Also, on an open plain like this I suspect the microphone was near or attached to the killer (reduce air artifact). Therefore, one can clearly hear air escaping the trachea. Awful. I can't explain the lack of blood other than frames per second somehow missed this? But why the video cut away? This single event has promoted conspiracy theories. I believe the answer is stupidity and bungling. If one looks to the head of Foley (may he rest in peace) you'll note a real bloody mess, fingerprints, etc. They could not manage his head and behead him effectively. It is therefore likely a far worse a death than might even be imagined. This poor man spoke with finality and dignity, strength while terrified, and they botched the death even further because there was no point, besides a slippery jaw, to grasp. Had the entire video been shown it would show incompetence and ridicule. Also, the final scene appears to have have a different knife nearby (IMO).

Well said, i think your observations are pretty accurate.

The very sad fact though these 'murderers' are doing this every day over there, men, women and children.

I think its actually about time the Arab nations in the Gulf, with all their money and military hardware went to sort these IS terrorists out instead of hiding behind the West all the time.

Yea, but IMO, I hold a number of regional players are directly motivating and funding IS- Qatar, Turkey, US, SA, perhaps others but others are only inferred. This is not an out of control grassroots radical islamism thing. This is a concerted, funded, developed, trained army with a very specific purpose in mind.

Nothing surprises me anymore about who is really behind this group. The leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, may have a very different origin that would shock most his followers. Some say his real name is Elliot Shimon. I'll sit on the fence on this as the evidence comes from very dubious sources.

http://topinfopost.com/2014/08/08/isis-leader-al-baghdadi-is-a-jewish-mossad-agent-french-reports

I just find things a little strange that there's been no talk of an attack on Israel but there's been plenty of talk of hoisting their flag over most western countries.

[Seastallion]

I don't know what it looks like to cut someone's throat and behead them. but the video most certainly appears to be staged, not an actual execution.

i do . . i saw one a few years ago (a genuine one) and it is the most horrific thing i've ever experienced. The blood flows immediately, the screams are penetrating, it's an awful thing to witness and it affected me for quite some time after.

edit: i got over it . . but it hardened, then strengthened, the soul to understand what evil is capable of.

You can't scream if you have your head cut off, or even just your throat cut. I know...I've slit many a pig's and cow's throats.

It sounds like you are telling porkies.

[Ulysses G.]

I just find things a little strange that there's been no talk of an attack on Israel but there's been plenty of talk of hoisting their flag over most western countries.

Another foolish conspiracy theory blaming - who else? - the Jews!

[Goshawk]

I don't know what it looks like to cut someone's throat and behead them. but the video most certainly appears to be staged, not an actual execution.

i do . . i saw one a few years ago (a genuine one) and it is the most horrific thing i've ever experienced. The blood flows immediately, the screams are penetrating, it's an awful thing to witness and it affected me for quite some time after.

edit: i got over it . . but it hardened, then strengthened, the soul to understand what evil is capable of.

You can't scream if you have your head cut off, or even just your throat cut. I know...I've slit many a pig's and cow's throats.

It sounds like you are telling porkies.

Well i would say . . then go and search one of these real videos out. But then again, no i don't advise it. I know what i saw, and it's more of a slow sawing motion than a clean Saudi swipe. The screams are horrifying. Please don't call me liar again.

[Seastallion]

I don;t pray because I don't believe in God, but I do agree with your comment about the circumstances of his death. Despite the hysterical outrage in Western media I fail to see what is worse about beheading than about dropping bombs, cluster bombs and white phosphorus from aeroplanes or artillery on innocents in Gaza, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, or Libya. Innocent women, children and men torn to pieces by shrapnel and debris from the explosion, or burnt to the bone by phosphorus, the result is often the same...the death of an innocent vicitm.

Bombing may be quicker than beheading but also may result in much greater loss of life and what about the ones 'only' injured? They can have a lifetime of suffering. 'Collateral damage' from a bomb or beheading by a jihadi...morally equivalent

From a purely detached, objective point of view, you are correct. Beheadings... bomb dropping... are all relative to the observer. I suppose there is the sterility that is implied with distant modes of war- drop a bomb, the pilot (or drone) returns, mission accomplished. Clearly this gives the false impression of a clean act. The beheading, however, makes no pretense. It is equally as barbaric yet sheds any pretense to sterility. The value it does serve to the west is to shed the false notion that we are dealing with an equal but different culture. Yes, in modes of war all methods of killing are brutal and, perhaps finally, equal. But these "people" practice such a lifestyle (Sharia) and beheadings and executions and crucifixions and dismemberment, evisceration, and burning, etc., on a daily basis, throughout the world, on their own as much as infidels. The comparison of bomb dropping and beheadings aside, videos such as this serve to remind us that inherently, what we are dealing with is barbarism and no amount of equivocating about bombing being equal can change that.

Sophistry! Illogical sophistry. Outrageous biased sophistry. Sophistry that perpetuates a Western myth and a Western propaganda lie.

Firstly, "Beheadings......bomb dropping" are not just "relative to the observer". What does that actually mean, anyway? If you are saying the moral or intestinal fortitude of the observer will change the way the death is perceived, then you are right. Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But the method of delivery of death is not relative to anything, except in the cruelty factor. A beheading is no more cruel than a bullet to the head, while a white phosphorous burn to the bone can mean a lingering painful death that lasts for days. You did choose to focus on bombs and pass over the mention of white phosphorous that Retarius made. But of course, anyone who supports Israel will not like to prolong any reference to the criminal and dastardly use of the substance that Israel does.

Secondly, your use of the word "people" in inverted commas makes clear your disdain for Islamists. But don't confuse Islamists with Muslims. It's easy to do, and Israel wants us to do it.

Thirdly, you exaggerate unforgivably. If you insist on such a wild claim, you really ought to provide some evidence of daily beheadings, executions, crucifixions, dismemberments, eviscerations, burnings, AND etc. By the way...what, on top of those other gruesome things constitutes "etc"? Or was the "etc" for dramatic effect?

Fourthly, the sophistry....you make out that beheadings are barbaric and bombings (and white phosphorous) are not. Really? White phosphorous poured down indiscriminately on children is, I state, and not offer as an opinion, far more barbaric. Incomparably more barbaric. Bombings, where victims are often not killed outright but lie wounded, sometimes for days while rubble is cleared, is a far more drawn out way of imposing death on a person. Barbaric in the extreme. On top of that, a beheading is perfectly selective, but a bombing is not.

That is not equivocation.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Seastallion

[Seastallion]

I don't know what it looks like to cut someone's throat and behead them. but the video most certainly appears to be staged, not an actual execution.

i do . . i saw one a few years ago (a genuine one) and it is the most horrific thing i've ever experienced. The blood flows immediately, the screams are penetrating, it's an awful thing to witness and it affected me for quite some time after.

edit: i got over it . . but it hardened, then strengthened, the soul to understand what evil is capable of.

You can't scream if you have your head cut off, or even just your throat cut. I know...I've slit many a pig's and cow's throats.

It sounds like you are telling porkies.

Well i would say . . then go and search one of these real videos out. But then again, no i don't advise it. I know what i saw, and it's more of a slow sawing motion than a clean Saudi swipe. The screams are horrifying. Please don't call me liar again.

I didn't call you a liar, I said it sounds like you are telling lies.

It still does.

Even more so.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Seastallion

[Goshawk]

i do . . i saw one a few years ago (a genuine one) and it is the most horrific thing i've ever experienced. The blood flows immediately, the screams are penetrating, it's an awful thing to witness and it affected me for quite some time after.

edit: i got over it . . but it hardened, then strengthened, the soul to understand what evil is capable of.

You can't scream if you have your head cut off, or even just your throat cut. I know...I've slit many a pig's and cow's throats.

It sounds like you are telling porkies.

Well i would say . . then go and search one of these real videos out. But then again, no i don't advise it. I know what i saw, and it's more of a slow sawing motion than a clean Saudi swipe. The screams are horrifying. Please don't call me liar again.

I didn't call you a liar, I said it sounds like you are telling lies.

It still does.

Even more so.

you're not worth the bother. . .stop trolling.

[schondie]

I just find things a little strange that there's been no talk of an attack on Israel but there's been plenty of talk of hoisting their flag over most western countries.

Another foolish conspiracy theory blaming - who else? - the Jews!

My comment in full would have shown what I stated "I'll sit on the fence on this as the evidence comes from very dubious sources". Nothing surprises me anymore as a better example is the American spokesman for Al-Qaeda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Yahiye_Gadahn

Yes, I do believe that IS is being funded by Saudi Arabia and is or was also being supported by other non Muslim countries for reasons I cannot fathom out.

It probably is a conspiracy theory but didn't Israel set up Hamas to divide the support for the PLO? Who would have believed that thirty years ago?

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847

Israel setting up Hamas - Another foolish conspiracy theory blaming - who else? - the Jews!

[Seastallion]

You can't scream if you have your head cut off, or even just your throat cut. I know...I've slit many a pig's and cow's throats.

It sounds like you are telling porkies.

Well i would say . . then go and search one of these real videos out. But then again, no i don't advise it. I know what i saw, and it's more of a slow sawing motion than a clean Saudi swipe. The screams are horrifying. Please don't call me liar again.

I didn't call you a liar, I said it sounds like you are telling lies.

It still does.

Even more so.

you're not worth the bother. . .stop trolling.

So stop bothering.

You claim to have heard "penetrating screams" that "you have got over now" (so dramatic), then recommend I DON'T look for any videos to verify your claim.

It sounds like porkies, and I said so. That's not trolling.

In fact, that you accuse me of trolling makes me think it even more likely that a porky was told!

Provide the link to a video where a man screams penetratingly while his head is cut off (or throat slit) or, as you say, don't bother.

People are very fond of promulgating myths and lies over the internet for propaganda purposes. Many of the ignorant masses have jumped on the bandwagon without reealising what they do is harmful.

[Goshawk]

^ Quit it now.

i've described what i saw & heard . . . any link, if i could find one in 2014, to this very graphic material (victims initials KB, is as far as i'll go - please don't anyone go searching for it...it's not nice) would be swiftly & quite rightly taken down by the Mods.

and what i did unfortunately see & hear (a man alive having his head sawn off with what appeared to be a long serrated blade, very much like a bread knife) in that 'film' and the aftermath effects of it on me, is EXACTLY as i describe it.

now for the last time . . . stop calling me a liar.

just because you haven't seen it, doesn't make it fiction and/or propaganda.

[Franky Bear]

Graphic post!

I had various observations about the Foley video and have considered the various theories suggested something is amiss. I noted a few things, one being why he had no hair? In my final analysis the lack of hair really explains something, and also helps cement my final opinion the video is likely real.

I cannot answer why there was no hair. I can answer why the video cut away at the beheading. Also, on an open plain like this I suspect the microphone was near or attached to the killer (reduce air artifact). Therefore, one can clearly hear air escaping the trachea. Awful. I can't explain the lack of blood other than frames per second somehow missed this? But why the video cut away? This single event has promoted conspiracy theories. I believe the answer is stupidity and bungling. If one looks to the head of Foley (may he rest in peace) you'll note a real bloody mess, fingerprints, etc. They could not manage his head and behead him effectively. It is therefore likely a far worse a death than might even be imagined. This poor man spoke with finality and dignity, strength while terrified, and they botched the death even further because there was no point, besides a slippery jaw, to grasp. Had the entire video been shown it would show incompetence and ridicule. Also, the final scene appears to have have a different knife nearby (IMO).

Well said, i think your observations are pretty accurate.

The very sad fact though these 'murderers' are doing this every day over there, men, women and children.

I think its actually about time the Arab nations in the Gulf, with all their money and military hardware went to sort these IS terrorists out instead of hiding behind the West all the time.

Yea, but IMO, I hold a number of regional players are directly motivating and funding IS- Qatar, Turkey, US, SA, perhaps others but others are only inferred. This is not an out of control grassroots radical islamism thing. This is a concerted, funded, developed, trained army with a very specific purpose in mind.

Add Kuwait to that. Big time

[Steely Dan]

I don;t pray because I don't believe in God, but I do agree with your comment about the circumstances of his death. Despite the hysterical outrage in Western media I fail to see what is worse about beheading than about dropping bombs, cluster bombs and white phosphorus from aeroplanes or artillery on innocents in Gaza, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, or Libya. Innocent women, children and men torn to pieces by shrapnel and debris from the explosion, or burnt to the bone by phosphorus, the result is often the same...the death of an innocent vicitm.

Bombing may be quicker than beheading but also may result in much greater loss of life and what about the ones 'only' injured? They can have a lifetime of suffering. 'Collateral damage' from a bomb or beheading by a jihadi...morally equivalent

From a purely detached, objective point of view, you are correct. Beheadings... bomb dropping... are all relative to the observer. I suppose there is the sterility that is implied with distant modes of war- drop a bomb, the pilot (or drone) returns, mission accomplished. Clearly this gives the false impression of a clean act. The beheading, however, makes no pretense. It is equally as barbaric yet sheds any pretense to sterility. The value it does serve to the west is to shed the false notion that we are dealing with an equal but different culture. Yes, in modes of war all methods of killing are brutal and, perhaps finally, equal. But these "people" practice such a lifestyle (Sharia) and beheadings and executions and crucifixions and dismemberment, evisceration, and burning, etc., on a daily basis, throughout the world, on their own as much as infidels. The comparison of bomb dropping and beheadings aside, videos such as this serve to remind us that inherently, what we are dealing with is barbarism and no amount of equivocating about bombing being equal can change that.

Sophistry! Illogical sophistry. Outrageous biased sophistry. Sophistry that perpetuates a Western myth and a Western propaganda lie.

Firstly, "Beheadings......bomb dropping" are not just "relative to the observer". What does that actually mean, anyway? If you are saying the moral or intestinal fortitude of the observer will change the way the death is perceived, then you are right. Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But the method of delivery of death is not relative to anything, except in the cruelty factor. A beheading is no more cruel than a bullet to the head, while a white phosphorous burn to the bone can mean a lingering painful death that lasts for days. You did choose to focus on bombs and pass over the mention of white phosphorous that Retarius made. But of course, anyone who supports Israel will not like to prolong any reference to the criminal and dastardly use of the substance that Israel does.

Secondly, your use of the word "people" in inverted commas makes clear your disdain for Islamists. But don't confuse Islamists with Muslims. It's easy to do, and Israel wants us to do it.

Thirdly, you exaggerate unforgivably. If you insist on such a wild claim, you really ought to provide some evidence of daily beheadings, executions, crucifixions, dismemberments, eviscerations, burnings, AND etc. By the way...what, on top of those other gruesome things constitutes "etc"? Or was the "etc" for dramatic effect?

Fourthly, the sophistry....you make out that beheadings are barbaric and bombings (and white phosphorous) are not. Really? White phosphorous poured down indiscriminately on children is, I state, and not offer as an opinion, far more barbaric. Incomparably more barbaric. Bombings, where victims are often not killed outright but lie wounded, sometimes for days while rubble is cleared, is a far more drawn out way of imposing death on a person. Barbaric in the extreme. On top of that, a beheading is perfectly selective, but a bombing is not.

That is not equivocation.

I see your obsession with Israel follows you around like a bad smell. That anyone can try to make a case of moral distinction between Israel trying to kill terrorists hiding behind human shields is incredible. It is also unbelievably stupid;- ISIS and Hamas are two cheeks of the same arse. They share the same ideology, many of the same methods are supported by the same people and funded by the same sources. I put it to you that ISIS are a PR disaster for Pro-Palestine one issue activists so naturally along come the conspiracy theories that Israel created ISIS, just as they supposedly did Hamas. Well Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE are on the same side at present trying to stop the Islamists so please do at least a minimal amount of background reading before making such a fool of yourself.

[Seastallion]

I don;t pray because I don't believe in God, but I do agree with your comment about the circumstances of his death. Despite the hysterical outrage in Western media I fail to see what is worse about beheading than about dropping bombs, cluster bombs and white phosphorus from aeroplanes or artillery on innocents in Gaza, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, or Libya. Innocent women, children and men torn to pieces by shrapnel and debris from the explosion, or burnt to the bone by phosphorus, the result is often the same...the death of an innocent vicitm.

Bombing may be quicker than beheading but also may result in much greater loss of life and what about the ones 'only' injured? They can have a lifetime of suffering. 'Collateral damage' from a bomb or beheading by a jihadi...morally equivalent

From a purely detached, objective point of view, you are correct. Beheadings... bomb dropping... are all relative to the observer. I suppose there is the sterility that is implied with distant modes of war- drop a bomb, the pilot (or drone) returns, mission accomplished. Clearly this gives the false impression of a clean act. The beheading, however, makes no pretense. It is equally as barbaric yet sheds any pretense to sterility. The value it does serve to the west is to shed the false notion that we are dealing with an equal but different culture. Yes, in modes of war all methods of killing are brutal and, perhaps finally, equal. But these "people" practice such a lifestyle (Sharia) and beheadings and executions and crucifixions and dismemberment, evisceration, and burning, etc., on a daily basis, throughout the world, on their own as much as infidels. The comparison of bomb dropping and beheadings aside, videos such as this serve to remind us that inherently, what we are dealing with is barbarism and no amount of equivocating about bombing being equal can change that.

Sophistry! Illogical sophistry. Outrageous biased sophistry. Sophistry that perpetuates a Western myth and a Western propaganda lie.

Firstly, "Beheadings......bomb dropping" are not just "relative to the observer". What does that actually mean, anyway? If you are saying the moral or intestinal fortitude of the observer will change the way the death is perceived, then you are right. Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But the method of delivery of death is not relative to anything, except in the cruelty factor. A beheading is no more cruel than a bullet to the head, while a white phosphorous burn to the bone can mean a lingering painful death that lasts for days. You did choose to focus on bombs and pass over the mention of white phosphorous that Retarius made. But of course, anyone who supports Israel will not like to prolong any reference to the criminal and dastardly use of the substance that Israel does.

Secondly, your use of the word "people" in inverted commas makes clear your disdain for Islamists. But don't confuse Islamists with Muslims. It's easy to do, and Israel wants us to do it.

Thirdly, you exaggerate unforgivably. If you insist on such a wild claim, you really ought to provide some evidence of daily beheadings, executions, crucifixions, dismemberments, eviscerations, burnings, AND etc. By the way...what, on top of those other gruesome things constitutes "etc"? Or was the "etc" for dramatic effect?

Fourthly, the sophistry....you make out that beheadings are barbaric and bombings (and white phosphorous) are not. Really? White phosphorous poured down indiscriminately on children is, I state, and not offer as an opinion, far more barbaric. Incomparably more barbaric. Bombings, where victims are often not killed outright but lie wounded, sometimes for days while rubble is cleared, is a far more drawn out way of imposing death on a person. Barbaric in the extreme. On top of that, a beheading is perfectly selective, but a bombing is not.

That is not equivocation.

I see your obsession with Israel follows you around like a bad smell. That anyone can try to make a case of moral distinction between Israel trying to kill terrorists hiding behind human shields is incredible. It is also unbelievably stupid;- ISIS and Hamas are two cheeks of the same arse. They share the same ideology, many of the same methods are supported by the same people and funded by the same sources. I put it to you that ISIS are a PR disaster for Pro-Palestine one issue activists so naturally along come the conspiracy theories that Israel created ISIS, just as they supposedly did Hamas. Well Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE are on the same side at present trying to stop the Islamists so please do at least a minimal amount of background reading before making such a fool of yourself.

Making a fool of myself?? Unbelievably stupid?

Aside from those being personal insults, what foolish thing have I said? You certainly didn't point it out here.

You didn't complete your sentence when you said I was so stupid; " That anyone can try to make a case of moral distinction between Israel trying to kill terrorists hiding behind human shields is incredible. " Between Israel and who/what? What am I making a distinction between? Or is the full stop because there is no possibility of any moral distinction? Implying that Israel pouring white phosphorous on children is morally upstanding....that is not foolish, that is disgustingingly sick.

I'm not even sure that you're replying to the right post. You seem to be talking about geopolitics that has nothing to do with what I wrote, especially in the context of what I was replying to.

You may have just made a fool of yourself.

[Seastallion]

^ Quit it now.

i've described what i saw & heard . . . any link, if i could find one in 2014, to this very graphic material (victims initials KB, is as far as i'll go - please don't anyone go searching for it...it's not nice) would be swiftly & quite rightly taken down by the Mods.

and what i did unfortunately see & hear (a man alive having his head sawn off with what appeared to be a long serrated blade, very much like a bread knife) in that 'film' and the aftermath effects of it on me, is EXACTLY as i describe it.

now for the last time . . . stop calling me a liar.

just because you haven't seen it, doesn't make it fiction and/or propaganda.

You saw something that sounds very doubtful, in fact sounds impossible (do you know where the larynx is and how it works?). Dramatic effects. You don't want me to look for it to verify your claim, and you don't want to present it here?

The whole thing sounds as if my hunch is right.

Or perhaps you're getting confused with a scene you saw from a B grade movie?

[Goshawk]

^ oh my lord . . .

You're really something. I've said everything i'm going to say about this, and i'm not getting into a tit-for-tat with you over it. Read my words again, they stand & are true. If you don't believe me . . fine, then the only trolling emotional response you're seeking and are going to get from me on this, is my pity for you.

[Ulysses G.]

Thirdly, you exaggerate unforgivably. If you insist on such a wild claim, you really ought to provide some evidence of daily beheadings, executions, crucifixions, dismemberments, eviscerations, burnings, AND etc.

I see your obsession with Israel follows you around like a bad smell. That anyone can try to make a case of moral distinction between Israel trying to kill terrorists hiding behind human shields is incredible. It is also unbelievably stupid;- ISIS and Hamas are two cheeks of the same arse. They share the same ideology, many of the same methods are supported by the same people and funded by the same sources. I put it to you that ISIS are a PR disaster for Pro-Palestine one issue activists so naturally along come the conspiracy theories that Israel created ISIS, just as they supposedly did Hamas. Well Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the UAE are on the same side at present trying to stop the Islamists so please do at least a minimal amount of background reading before making such a fool of yourself.

Indeed. Hamas and ISIS are almost identical twins. They are both groups of Islamic terrorists who are responsible for the deaths of their own people.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Ulysses G.