"Knee Defender" on flights, what do you think ?

[TommyUK1960]

Its time airlines gave people more room even if the cost goes up. The issue of no space for your legs has to be addressed. It is criminal how little space they give you.

[Likener1]

They already do - Business class & First class, also some offer a premium economy.

You get what you pay for and in this case if you sit in a seat that has one in front of you it is more likely than not the occupant will recline it, as you can also do with your own seat, you have no right to try and obstruct another's seat from doing so.

As for people displaying acts of petty childlike petulance when the seat in front of them reclines I will merely say this............................

If I couldn't fit into an economy class seat or felt uncomfortable when the person in front exercises their right to recline I would pay for a better class of seat.

If I did not have enough money to do so I would only blame myself and suffer in my impoverished silence without spitefully taking my self frustrations out on others by trying to make them uncomfortable.

My failure to be comfortable would be mine and mine alone, not the fault of blameless others.

[gameyey]

I think everybody should have the right to recline their seat, but there is one advantage with such a device. I was once sitting with my laptop open and the person in front suddenly reclined hard right on the screen, and i think it was really close to breaking. You should be able to use such a device to save your laptop, but you would have to remove it if anyone asks. Everybody should just recline carefully, if you feel anything stopping you, turn around and ask. And if the person behind you can't adjust their seat (exit, or back-row), then don't recline all the way down.

[arunsakda]

Everybody on a plane is not necessarily that civil. If one boards an airliner on a domestic US flight these days you are lucky if you are seated next to someone who does not smell horrible, let alone a passenger with any experience traveling besides a city bus. At least two US carriers SPIRIT and ALLEGIANT have eliminated seat recline altogether. SPIRIT charges extra for "use of the overhead locker". Horrible situation really.

Edited August 29, 2014 by arunsakda

[up-country_sinclair]

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

[surangw]

i have more of a problem when in economy seats with those fools behind me that can't rise out of their seats with out clutching the back of my seat.

on a few occasions when the person was doing this several times, I hold in the recline button when I hear them getting up,

they usually get the message in short order.

[Bung]

Well, I just got off a flight Bkk- London. 12+ hours. BA so pretty miserable and added some a-hole kept bashing my seat, even after I asked him to stop every ten minutes he would shake or bash it for some reason. No escaping a holes in this world eh? I, on the other hand had no reason to touch the persons seat in front of me. Lucky I wasn't too keen to sleep as I arrived at 6 pm and better to sleep at night.

[hawker9000]

On overnight flights I always recline and sleep and have usually not been disturbed except for once a kid behind me kept bashing the touch screen all night (Who's bright idea was that?). Only on one occasion have I had a problem with my seat not reclining and of course I was unaware of this device so I just thought the seat was broken and cursed my bad luck. Probably the smart <deleted> behind me had one of these devices and I did not know otherwise I would have taken him/her to task. Now about the raising of the seat again at mealtimes I am definitely not against this and I believe it probably should be enforced by the FA. I never take meals on overnight flights because I would rather sleep. If they do enforce the raising of the seat rule then they should make damn sure they get the meal served promptly. If I have to wait until they have dished out the drinks and stupid peanuts or biscuits and then disappear for an hour then dish out the meal and collect the trays it is already halfway through the flight. Waste of valuable sleeping time.

Den

I've never seen the FAs asking people to raise their seats during the handouts of drinks & nuts (or whatever). Only during the actual meal service. I almost always see them asking the person in front to raise their seat, even if that requires waking a snoozing passenger, when the meal gets served to the person behind. That's just the way it is. They treat everyone equally, so I mute any objection I might otherwise have & try not to make FAs jobs more difficult by being uncooperative, even if I'm not eating.

Traveling in economy is not a ticket to non-conformity. 'Fact is, it's crowded there. 'Fact is, on long flights reclining seats are a virtual necessity. 'Fact is, you can pretty much count on the person in front of your choosing to recline his, and the person in front of HIM, and in front of HIM, and so on to the front of that compartment. IOW, the vast majority WILL lower their seats. 'Nothing new about that. If you can handle the seat in front of you reclined while not feeling the need to recline yours, then that's just wonderful. But it's unreasonable to expect the person in front of you to have the seat ahead of him reclined, and yet not be able to recline his own just because YOU can't get with the program.

I must admit, I'm kind of waiting for the day when someone files a successful lawsuit against the airlines for injuries caused, physical or mental, by this overcrowding. (We, the paying public, may not much like the end result though, if it ever happens.) But I agree, it's overcrowded and otherwise not all that comfortable in economy. But that's another discussion.

I think of it this way. One can fly business class, and pay what must be paid to do that, and avoid all of these issues. OR, one can, in return for a significant DISCOUNT, fly in economy AND endure these inconveniences. Your choice. You get what you pay for. Now don't start whining about not being able to afford business class. My answer to that is that some can't afford to fly at all! So we're back to choices. Act like an adult, make yours, and learn to live with it.

[MediaWatcher]

up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

There is no given "right" to recline, in fact, when flying over, some states of the US you MUST, by law, have your seat upright at all times.

"Passengers are currently allowed to recline when flying over Pennsylvania, Illinois and Indiana but are required to return their seats to an upright position over Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri."

I would also suggest all those pro reclining people should read this http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28943131, it appears there is an anti-reclining revolt taking place, due to selfish recliners, you bring it upon yourselves. That is all I have to say on this subject.

Edited August 30, 2014 by MediaWatcher

[up-country_sinclair]

up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

There is no given "right" to recline, in fact, when flying over, some states of the US you MUST, by law, have your seat upright at all times.

"Passengers are currently allowed to recline when flying over Pennsylvania, Illinois and Indiana but are required to return their seats to an upright position over Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri."

Don't be ridiculous. That's the most absurd thing I've read on this forum since----well, fairly recently.

[MediaWatcher]

up-country_sinclair, on 30 Aug 2014 - 12:28, said:

MediaWatcher, on 30 Aug 2014 - 11:34, said:

up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

There is no given "right" to recline, in fact, when flying over, some states of the US you MUST, by law, have your seat upright at all times.

"Passengers are currently allowed to recline when flying over Pennsylvania, Illinois and Indiana but are required to return their seats to an upright position over Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri."

Don't be ridiculous. That's the most absurd thing I've read on this forum since----well, fairly recently.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7de5cb38-2d35-11e4-aca0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3BqHQvmLL

[JesseFrank]

up-country_sinclair, on 30 Aug 2014 - 12:28, said:

MediaWatcher, on 30 Aug 2014 - 11:34, said:

up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

There is no given "right" to recline, in fact, when flying over, some states of the US you MUST, by law, have your seat upright at all times.

"Passengers are currently allowed to recline when flying over Pennsylvania, Illinois and Indiana but are required to return their seats to an upright position over Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri."

Don't be ridiculous. That's the most absurd thing I've read on this forum since----well, fairly recently.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7de5cb38-2d35-11e4-aca0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3BqHQvmLL

So if I write an article in the FT that by law over Thailand seats have to be reclined in a 150 degree position, then you gonna believe that also ?

[up-country_sinclair]

up-country_sinclair, on 30 Aug 2014 - 12:28, said:

MediaWatcher, on 30 Aug 2014 - 11:34, said:

up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:up-country_sinclair, on 29 Aug 2014 - 22:36, said:

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

There is no given "right" to recline, in fact, when flying over, some states of the US you MUST, by law, have your seat upright at all times.

"Passengers are currently allowed to recline when flying over Pennsylvania, Illinois and Indiana but are required to return their seats to an upright position over Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri."

Don't be ridiculous. That's the most absurd thing I've read on this forum since----well, fairly recently.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7de5cb38-2d35-11e4-aca0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3BqHQvmLL

Did you actually read the article?

The commentary is intended to be tongue in cheek.

[NoshowJones]

Had a window seat in a lengthy flight from Tokyo to the US...no one in middle seat...another person in the isle seat...every time I would dose off to sleep...the turd in the isle seat would move his foot all the way over to the window seat and punch my foot to wake me up...even if I had been snoring...and I wasn't...his actions were inflammatory...

The only thing that kept me from punching him in the nose was not wishing to explain to the family why I was arrested at the airport...

Anyone else have a similar experience...?

I would have punched him if it was possible to do so without anyone seeing me, ie follow him to the toilet and hope there is no one else there, as is sometimes the case. Besides, him punching your foot is assault, would that not entitle you to deck him? Self defence is it not?

[eeeya]

Had a young woman in the seat behind put her feet along the window and onto my lap in the seat in front. All mighty elbow into her feet is what she felt.

[yermanee]

Wow a lot of testostorone floating around here.

Typical for the nowadays ME...ME...ME... attitude.

Whatever happened to tolerance, politeness etc. ?

Yermanee

[tifino]

...whatever happened heh heh

whatever happened the good ole' days? - did a Melb -Perth direct on a Garuda Business Class DC-10... The wide body of the past.

Never mind the typical garuda 3 point landing, bouncing one wheel at a time onto the asphalt; but the seating was impressive mak mak

- really made me feel like Abraham Lincoln, is he is displayed in stone in Washington DC

Stewardess coming down the aisle, swings around and there was room for her to actually walk around and stand, bend and serve you from in front of you, instead of having to lean over...

...oh hang on! - a stewardie leaning over me sounds a better idea

[OMGImInPattaya]

But the real culprit is the airline - they should leave enough leg room for tall people.

Am I wrong?

Maybe extra tall people should buy two seats...theirs and the one in front, just like many airlines make fatties buy two adjoining seats. That, or buy a business class ticket.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Wow a lot of testostorone floating around here.

Typical for the nowadays ME...ME...ME... attitude.

Whatever happened to tolerance, politeness etc. ?

Yermanee

They're all mixed-martial arts fighters on the internet!

[David48]

But the real culprit is the airline - they should leave enough leg room for tall people.

Am I wrong?

Maybe extra tall people should buy two seats...theirs and the one in front, just like many airlines make fatties buy two adjoining seats. That, or buy a business class ticket.

Do they really make the Fatties buy two seats?

I thought that was an Urban Myth?

Where does the Airline draw that (round) line?

[arunsakda]

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

Where is the unlike button? Sorry but you need to re-read the small print on your contract of carriage. Some seats have limited recline due to aircraft configuration like (aft seats or in front of galley bulkheads ) or for regulatory purposes such as certain exit row seats. Seats must be able to be secured in the full upright position. The recline mechanism may be inoperative also and maintenance legally deferred according to an approved maintenance procedure commonly known as MEL (minimum equipment list). If the flight is full and you are unfortunately assigned a seat with inoperative recline you may have no choice but to accept it or be offloaded, forthwith.

[hawker9000]

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

Where is the unlike button? Sorry but you need to re-read the small print on your contract of carriage. Some seats have limited recline due to aircraft configuration like (aft seats or in front of galley bulkheads ) or for regulatory purposes such as certain exit row seats. Seats must be able to be secured in the full upright position. The recline mechanism may be inoperative also and maintenance legally deferred according to an approved maintenance procedure commonly known as MEL (minimum equipment list). If the flight is full and you are unfortunately assigned a seat with inoperative recline you may have no choice but to accept it or be offloaded, forthwith.

Well then, if the idiot behind you installs one of those reclining preventers, I guess that makes them guilty of an unauthorized airframe change, and they should be hauled off by the FAA (or whatever).

So, if I'm not entitled to use the reclining mechanism, what else am I not entitled to about the seat? Not use the seat pocket in front? Not raise or lower the headrest? Not use the entire seat if the person next to me is obese and "needs" some of it. Keep the armrest up (for the same reason)?

An American Airlines flight to Boston was diverted just the other day over a passenger who became upset when the woman in front of him reclined her seat and was placed under arrest after landing. Now who did they arrest?? Hmmmm? This is so silly. It just brings out the cranks & crackpots (see the post earlier in this thread about not being able to recline your seat when overflying some states... Lol.) Of COURSE you can recline your seat! And the person behind you has nothing to say about it, although some simple courtesy in going about it is never out of order. Period. This whole thread is about jerks who think they have a right to restrict the travel prerequisites and comfort others have bought and paid for, and are too childish to deal with it.

[arunsakda]

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

Where is the unlike button? Sorry but you need to re-read the small print on your contract of carriage. Some seats have limited recline due to aircraft configuration like (aft seats or in front of galley bulkheads ) or for regulatory purposes such as certain exit row seats. Seats must be able to be secured in the full upright position. The recline mechanism may be inoperative also and maintenance legally deferred according to an approved maintenance procedure commonly known as MEL (minimum equipment list). If the flight is full and you are unfortunately assigned a seat with inoperative recline you may have no choice but to accept it or be offloaded, forthwith.

Well then, if the idiot behind you installs one of those reclining preventers, I guess that makes them guilty of an unauthorized airframe change, and they should be hauled off by the FAA (or whatever).

So, if I'm not entitled to use the reclining mechanism, what else am I not entitled to about the seat? Not use the seat pocket in front? Not raise or lower the headrest? Not use the entire seat if the person next to me is obese and "needs" some of it. Keep the armrest up (for the same reason)?

An American Airlines flight to Boston was diverted just the other day over a passenger who became upset when the woman in front of him reclined her seat and was placed under arrest after landing. Now who did they arrest?? Hmmmm? This is so silly. It just brings out the cranks & crackpots (see the post earlier in this thread about not being able to recline your seat when overflying some states... Lol.) Of COURSE you can recline your seat! And the person behind you has nothing to say about it, although some simple courtesy in going about it is never out of order. Period. This whole thread is about jerks who think they have a right to restrict the travel prerequisites and comfort others have bought and paid for, and are too childish to deal with it.

Agree with you totally. The post is in response to a guy who says his ticket price gives him a "right" to seat recline, which is rubbish. Of course you are entitled to recline your seat if the seat has an operative recline function. What you are not entitled to do is cause a disturbance on board, assault someone, or interfere with crew members /refuse their instructions, no matter what your "rights" are or you think they are..

See my previous post , the piece of junk known as the "Knee Defender", which has been around for years BTW, is rightly banned by all the major US airlines. Supposedly FAA has no opinion on it, which I find curious. (Maybe they don't want to get at all involved in this issue). On the United flight which diverted recently the smart-ass knee defender douchebag was offloaded for being for refusing instructions of flight crew to remove it, and the woman for her water throwing. Captains' call. Neither was charged with anything by local authorities. Thanks to all the media hype sales of the "Knee Defender" have gone through the roof and the smart-ass who invented it has been on the news promoting it. Afraid we will see more incidents before it disappears from the skies for good.

Edited August 31, 2014 by arunsakda

[OMGImInPattaya]

But the real culprit is the airline - they should leave enough leg room for tall people.

Am I wrong?

Maybe extra tall people should buy two seats...theirs and the one in front, just like many airlines make fatties buy two adjoining seats. That, or buy a business class ticket.

Do they really make the Fatties buy two seats?

I thought that was an Urban Myth?

Where does the Airline draw that (round) line?

Yes, airlines in the US can require this. If the slim-challenged passenger has not already done so, if the check-in agent determines that their girth would spill-over into adjoining seats, they can require the passenger to buy another ticket/seat as a condition of travel.

As for the reclining issue, so e airlines have elimated the issue by having economy seats that don't recline and some, like ANA, have economy seats that slide down/forward but not back.

[up-country_sinclair]

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

Where is the unlike button? Sorry but you need to re-read the small print on your contract of carriage. Some seats have limited recline due to aircraft configuration like (aft seats or in front of galley bulkheads ) or for regulatory purposes such as certain exit row seats. Seats must be able to be secured in the full upright position. The recline mechanism may be inoperative also and maintenance legally deferred according to an approved maintenance procedure commonly known as MEL (minimum equipment list). If the flight is full and you are unfortunately assigned a seat with inoperative recline you may have no choice but to accept it or be offloaded, forthwith.

It's clear that you're simply trying to be argumentative.

As I wrote, "airplane seats were designed to recline". Yes, not all seats on a plane are designed to recline (exit rows, bulkheads, etc...), but the vast majority are.

But allow me to rephrase: If my seat is one of the 99% of seats on the plane designed to recline (and it is not broken), I have the right to recline it.

[ravip]

If the person behind me would use such a device I would smash his knee caps.

I pay for a seat that can be reclined, so does the person behind you, so what gives him the right to restrict your comfort.

Be careful. That person might smash something other than your knee caps too.

(what ever the rights are)

[eeeya]

Diverting flights cost money, soon these knee defenders will be banned on 99% of flights because a few people will go crazy (and rightfully so) and cause an incident.

[tifino]

a pair of Grid Iron-like knee protectors could do the same, or maybe Ice Hockey? might be a bit obvious, and Cricket ones might get me hit for six

[arunsakda]

If people are willing to pay $21 plus for this item than why can't airlines just increase economy

tickets $20-$25 per seat and give us all additional 3-5 inches?

Airline managements say if they raise ticket prices even that much people won't fly in the US anymore! BS! Already they pay a fortune for ground transport, rental cars, hotels, and parking. Then at the airport $5 to rent a baggage trolley, wait 15 minutes in line at Starbucks for a $4.50 latte, and a sandwich with one thin slice of turkey for $8.99 that would leave a toddler hungry cause they know there will likely be nothing on board. They are doing this on purpose, packing more pax on flights to make more profit off bag fees and surcharges. Google 737MAX, the next iteration of the most common single aisle airliner. The fuselage is the same size as the 737-800. It will have newer engines but most of the "efficiency"Boeing will get out the MAX new model is because they can pack two more rows of seats in economy. These "slimline" seats will surely be comfortable on that 5 hour transcon. Yeah right. Edited August 31, 2014 by arunsakda

[tw25rw]

Airplane seats were designed to recline. The ticket price includes the right to recline the seat. Those who become physically uncomfortable when the seat in front of them reclines should pay for a seat in premium economy or business class.

Where is the unlike button? Sorry but you need to re-read the small print on your contract of carriage. Some seats have limited recline due to aircraft configuration like (aft seats or in front of galley bulkheads ) or for regulatory purposes such as certain exit row seats. Seats must be able to be secured in the full upright position. The recline mechanism may be inoperative also and maintenance legally deferred according to an approved maintenance procedure commonly known as MEL (minimum equipment list). If the flight is full and you are unfortunately assigned a seat with inoperative recline you may have no choice but to accept it or be offloaded, forthwith.

It's clear that you're simply trying to be argumentative.

As I wrote, "airplane seats were designed to recline". Yes, not all seats on a plane are designed to recline (exit rows, bulkheads, etc...), but the vast majority are.

But allow me to rephrase: If my seat is one of the 99% of seats on the plane designed to recline (and it is not broken), I have the right to recline it.

If, as a result of reclining your seat, you get someone's knees in your back, do you feel you have a right to ask them to sit differently? And do you think they have a right to demand you move the seat forward?