Phuket: paradox, contradiction or TIT?

[backstairs]

Driving towards Cherng Talay I thought about the times I have done this journey. Over four years I have seen lakes filled in and houses rise, Nikki Hotel going up in a Pineapple field, Laguna Golf course being covered in a metre of top soil. And much more. The beach huts are pulled down, so ably documented by EBlair, while new bungalows go up around Ban Don and on.

Some things are good. A new gas station with air for your tyres. A new Villa Supermarket. ANd yet the perception amongst many TV readers is that: tourism is down, ex pats are leaving and the goverment have much more to do.

I suppose my title is this. Why is there so much building when the future is uncertain? Is it sheep instinct? Someone has started building a housing estate so I will build one; next door. Is it zeitgist? Is it a paradox, a contradiction or........?

[patongphil]

You tink too mut.

[jocko]

Q . How do Thais think ? A. No idea

[Felt 35]

Why is there so much building when the future is uncertain?

What to do with money from uncertain origin!

[NamKangMan]

Tourist numbers to Phuket may be up, or, at least that's what the TAT would like everyone to think.

If true, it would be on the back of Russian, Chinese, Indian and Arab package, and charter tourists, but, I would argue, that the higher numbers from this demographic, has not resulted in higher baht turn over into the local Phuket economy, yet, the Thai's here seem to think this demographic will be the same as the foreigners before - buying bars, sending money for sick buffalo etc etc - but they are not, and will not.

Unless there is REAL POSITIVE CHANGE, on the ground here, 10 years from now, i think Phuket will be a cheap holiday for Thai's, in run down cheap hotels and guest houses, built on farang money.

It's called, "TIP" - This Is Phuket.

Edited August 30, 2014 by NamKangMan

[benalibina]

Why is there so much building when the future is uncertain?

What to do with money from uncertain origin!

Yes, and it does not matter where the monnies are coming from...thai or foreign...and how it is acquired.

[stevehaigh]

you think its crazy here. i used to live in Ko Phangan. all the resorts there keep expanding, building more rooms, leveling more forest, yet in the 8 years i lived there, the only time i ever saw tourists on the island was a couple of days before full moon and the 2 weeks either side of xmas. and those numbers seemed to be going down every year. but that didn't stop the locals buying shiny new vigo's every 6 months.

[stevenl]

The main reason for the contradictions are that foreigners (think they) know better.

[96tehtarp]

I think the reason for the contradiction is the fact that Phuket will continue to be a big earner for quite some time. It's all about the money and not where it comes from. Phuket is still Thailand's "Pearl of the Andaman".

[sanuk711]

The main reason for the contradictions are that foreigners (think they) know better.

.

As far as the financiers of the large resorts / hotels etc who plan for a market 5-7 years ahead.......maybe they do know a bit more then some of the embittered farangs here, who continue to talk about the imminent collapse of Thailand should they ever have to leave........

[96tehtarp]

The main reason for the contradictions are that foreigners (think they) know better.

.

As far as the financiers of the large resorts / hotels etc who plan for a market 5-7 years ahead.......maybe they do know a bit more then some of the embittered farangs here, who continue to talk about the imminent collapse of Thailand should they ever have to leave........

I agree the big players invest now for market conditions they hope for in 5-10 years. They definitely know more than I do.

When I meet farang tourists I frequently hear them rant that Thailand would be nothing with them. Tourism as a percentage of GDP has traditionally hovered at about 6% of GDP here. I'm not sure if that figure includes domestic tourism which is a very big market.

[hansgruber]

The main reason for the contradictions are that foreigners (think they) know better.

.

As far as the financiers of the large resorts / hotels etc who plan for a market 5-7 years ahead.......maybe they do know a bit more then some of the embittered farangs here, who continue to talk about the imminent collapse of Thailand should they ever have to leave........

I agree the big players invest now for market conditions they hope for in 5-10 years. They definitely know more than I do.

When I meet farang tourists I frequently hear them rant that Thailand would be nothing with them. Tourism as a percentage of GDP has traditionally hovered at about 6% of GDP here. I'm not sure if that figure includes domestic tourism which is a very big market.

Agreed.

Club Med wouldn't be extending their 30 year contract if it wasn't economically viable even though they will be paying much more rent.

[xylophone]

Quote backstairs: "I suppose my title is this. Why is there so much building when the future is uncertain? Is it sheep instinct? Someone has started building a housing estate so I will build one; next door. Is it zeitgist? Is it a paradox, a contradiction or........?"

It is the same mentality/reason why you will find five pharmacies within a 100 m stretch of road in the likes of Patong, or new restaurants being opened in a road where there are already many for sale, and the same goes with small budget style guesthouses and shops, and so on.

In the microcosm in which I live in Patong, I can already see blocks of apartments which have been empty for years, bars which have opened and closed within a matter of months and as I said before, restaurants which are for sale and others which are struggling terribly. Add to that the stalled construction on three major sites in one stretch of road alone, and you will have some idea of the state of the place.

Why do these places continue to be built/open/bought...............IMO a mixture of "TIT", stupidity and ignorance and quite possibly the occasional farang sponsoring his newly found g/f.

And of course to quote a real estate agent I was introduced to when I first arrived here, "there is always someone getting off the aeroplane with no brains and lots of money and it is my job to ensure that I find them".

[96tehtarp]

The main reason for the contradictions are that foreigners (think they) know better.

.

As far as the financiers of the large resorts / hotels etc who plan for a market 5-7 years ahead.......maybe they do know a bit more then some of the embittered farangs here, who continue to talk about the imminent collapse of Thailand should they ever have to leave........

I agree the big players invest now for market conditions they hope for in 5-10 years. They definitely know more than I do.

When I meet farang tourists I frequently hear them rant that Thailand would be nothing with them. Tourism as a percentage of GDP has traditionally hovered at about 6% of GDP here. I'm not sure if that figure includes domestic tourism which is a very big market.

Agreed.

Club Med wouldn't be extending their 30 year contract if it wasn't economically viable even though they will be paying much more rent.

ItalThai has 4,860,473,010.00 Baht in paid up registered capital with a market capitalization of 25,760.51 million baht. They haven't stopped pumping money into Phuket projects. It must not be all doom and gloom. The stability brought on by the coup was well received by business.

[xylophone]

As far as the financiers of the large resorts / hotels etc who plan for a market 5-7 years ahead.......maybe they do know a bit more then some of the embittered farangs here, who continue to talk about the imminent collapse of Thailand should they ever have to leave........

I agree the big players invest now for market conditions they hope for in 5-10 years. They definitely know more than I do.

When I meet farang tourists I frequently hear them rant that Thailand would be nothing with them. Tourism as a percentage of GDP has traditionally hovered at about 6% of GDP here. I'm not sure if that figure includes domestic tourism which is a very big market.

Agreed.

Club Med wouldn't be extending their 30 year contract if it wasn't economically viable even though they will be paying much more rent.

ItalThai has 4,860,473,010.00 Baht in paid up registered capital with a market capitalization of 25,760.51 million baht. They haven't stopped pumping money into Phuket projects. It must not be all doom and gloom. The stability brought on by the coup was well received by business.

On the subject of "Club Med", and I think this is probably the same for the other large accommodation organisations; all the while they can advertise worldwide with their huge budgets, and also put together package deals for travel agents and so on, and of course discount when they have to, then they are probably in a different league to the small blocks of apartments and guesthouses which I see going up everywhere.

As regards "ItalThai", well why wouldn't they pump money into Phuket projects when these projects are funded by central and local government, because they will get paid no matter what the tourist situation is like. And we all know that one of the reasons many projects like this are undertaken is so that local politicians can line their pockets with their "take" from them.

On that point, how much easier would it have been to have built an overpass on the two places where currently underpasses are being constructed, especially when major parts of an overpass can be preconstructed and erected on-site, with much less inconvenience than is currently being experienced?

The higher the cost........... the more can be re-routed into other accounts (sorry about the pun).

[EBlair48]

New gas station with air? Where? That gi-normous Caltech [sic?] has everything but air.

Thais and all peoples evolved from the tropical belt have a problem planning for a future. Has to do with abundant food resources, there was never a survival need to think past reaching for a banana or checking the nets.

That's why Thais with Chinese heritage are so successful in business here- cold weather forces future thought and civil cooperation. Thay also do not seem to ever be in governmental positions. Are they locked out, or just smarter than than?

It's not the race, but the heritage.

[sanuk711]

Chinese heritage are so successful in business here- cold weather forces future thought and civil cooperation--EBlair

So that's why the Eskimos feature so prominently in the Fortune 500 publications.......thanks for clearing that up EBliar...............

[EBlair48]

Chinese heritage are so successful in business here- cold weather forces future thought and civil cooperation--EBlair

So that's why the Eskimos feature so prominently in the Fortune 500 publications.......thanks for clearing that up EBliar...............

Immature slights and vapid emoticons are never convincing.

Eskimos are a bit on the natural resource lacking side, such as wood and fuel which would be an obvious disadvantage to a culture. Vast extremes in weather, too would inhibit development. Take them out of the environment, and see if they thrive? I imagine American Indians (pre european settler) would be the result- all highly successful cultures across North America.

Forbes 500- if is to be used as a yardstick, will back up my theory as the majority it features persons with northern heritage.

Again it isn't race, but a heritage of intellectual necessity.

[KarenBravo]

Immature slights and vapid emoticons are never convincing.

Neither are you.

Funny how all the first civilizations were not from cold countries.

Minoan.

Mesopotamian.

Indus River.

Indian.

Egyptian.

Greek.

Roman.

Plenty of food means more free time. Time that can be devoted to art, science and discoveries.

Edited September 2, 2014 by KarenBravo

[LivinginKata]

Defamatory post removed, and a reply removed.

Forum rule 6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.

[Jimi007]

ItalThai has 4,860,473,010.00 Baht in paid up registered capital with a market capitalization of 25,760.51 million baht. They haven't stopped pumping money into Phuket projects. It must not be all doom and gloom. The stability brought on by the coup was well received by business.

Let me rephrase my last comments as you are correct about my last post. I see they are also the contractor for the two underpasses that are currently being built on the island and most likely the third, that is planned for Chalong circle. Since they own the Amari chain of hotels, it seems as though they have a very vested interest in Phuket and tourism in general. Were they not the contractors for Suvanmabhumi airport as well?

[96tehtarp]

ItalThai has 4,860,473,010.00 Baht in paid up registered capital with a market capitalization of 25,760.51 million baht. They haven't stopped pumping money into Phuket projects. It must not be all doom and gloom. The stability brought on by the coup was well received by business.

Let me rephrase my last comments as you are correct about my last post. I see they are also the contractor for the two underpasses that are currently being built on the island and most likely the third, that is planned for Chalong circle. Since they own the Amari chain of hotels, it seems as though they have a very vested interest in Phuket and tourism in general. Were they not the contractors for Suvanmabhumi airport as well?

Yes, traditionally they have been a very successful and profitable company in Thailand. They know how to do business here.

[Jimi007]

ItalThai has 4,860,473,010.00 Baht in paid up registered capital with a market capitalization of 25,760.51 million baht. They haven't stopped pumping money into Phuket projects. It must not be all doom and gloom. The stability brought on by the coup was well received by business.

Let me rephrase my last comments as you are correct about my last post. I see they are also the contractor for the two underpasses that are currently being built on the island and most likely the third, that is planned for Chalong circle. Since they own the Amari chain of hotels, it seems as though they have a very vested interest in Phuket and tourism in general. Were they not the contractors for Suvanmabhumi airport as well?

Yes, traditionally they have been a very successful and profitable company in Thailand. They know how to do business here.

A very diplomatically correct response. Thanks for the save first time around!

Cheers, Jimi!

[keestha]

I have always been wondering why there are so many empty/almost empty rows of shop houses all over Thailand. Often enough in unlikely places a bit out of town. Of course it sounds like a nice business proposition, not having to do anything and get the rent every month.

[96tehtarp]

I have always been wondering why there are so many empty/almost empty rows of shop houses all over Thailand. Often enough in unlikely places a bit out of town. Of course it sounds like a nice business proposition, not having to do anything and get the rent every month.

It's the investor's view on time frame. Asian = 50+ years, sometimes more often than not.

[LivinginKata]

I have always been wondering why there are so many empty/almost empty rows of shop houses all over Thailand. Often enough in unlikely places a bit out of town. Of course it sounds like a nice business proposition, not having to do anything and get the rent every month.

It's the investor's view on time frame. Asian = 50+ years, sometimes more often than not.

Much depends on whether it's a clean money investment ... or dirty money.

[96tehtarp]

I have always been wondering why there are so many empty/almost empty rows of shop houses all over Thailand. Often enough in unlikely places a bit out of town. Of course it sounds like a nice business proposition, not having to do anything and get the rent every month.

It's the investor's view on time frame. Asian = 50+ years, sometimes more often than not.

Much depends on whether it's a clean money investment ... or dirty money.

The cleanest dirty money is big money.

[EBlair48]

Immature slights and vapid emoticons are never convincing.

Neither are you.

Funny how all the first civilizations were not from cold countries.

Minoan.

Mesopotamian.

Indus River.

Indian.

Egyptian.

Greek.

Roman.

Plenty of food means more free time. Time that can be devoted to art, science and discoveries.

I don't argue intricate cultures in warm climates do not develop, I only state people in cold climates- by necessity, prepare for the future. It exists.

And free time from food procurement can certainly also be devoted to being lazy...

I certainly explains a lot about Thais with southern ethnicity.

If political correctness weren't so endemic, and studies could be done I would well bet there are real differences in brains between tropical peoples and the more northerly.

One can certainly assign a value judgement to it, but who's to say worrying about the future is " better" It may well be a hindrance, especially if you don't need to, like where food is abundant.

[backstairs]

The new gas station up the road from Slug n Lettuce has now got a super air pump for car and Bike tyres.

[EBlair48]

They do ? Must have just gotten it , 2 weeks ago- NADA

Thanks