Retirement Couple Visa Questions

[Cuppa]

Hi all, my first post here.

My wife (56) & I (57) are getting a little excited about the idea of retiring to Thailand within the next 12 months or so. We are both holders of UK & Australian passports & have lived in Australia for the past 27 years.

We have been reading as much as we can & are confident that we can qualify for ‘retirement visas’, but something which remains unclear are the financial requirements. We have read different things. One possibility was that if we have separate bank accounts that we both need to have separate balances of 800,000bht in a Thai bank, or if a joint account, a balance of 1.6million Bht. However we have also read that only the primary applicant is required to have 800,000bht in a Thai account, & the spouse can get a visa as a ‘follower’.

Either way we can deposit the required amount, but prefer if possible to go with 800,000 rather than 1.6million.

Can anyone explain what is meant by a spouse being a ‘follower’, & what the implications of obtaining a residency permit in this manner might be? I’m guessing that it might mean that if the primary applicant were to die, that the spouse may no longer be allowed to stay without obtaining a retirement visa in their own right?

A second question.

If we obtain a retirement visa I understand we have to report to authorities every 90 days. If we chose to travel, either to other SE Asian counties or back to Australia & were absent from Thailand on the reporting date how would this be managed? Would we need to inform the authorities of our intention to leave the country prior to leaving, or simply show our passport as proof of our ‘absence’ upon return. Same question if we were to be ‘absent’ at the 12 month renewal time.

Thanks for your assistance & apologies if this is covered elsewhere.

regards

Cuppa

[beechguy]

Not sure why the confusion on the 90 day report, it is simply an address report for people remaining in the country 90 consecutive days or more. If you aren't here, then no report. The period starts again when you re-enter the county. You can do the report up 15 days early, or 7 days after, and in some places, it can be done by mail.

The financial requirements for a one year extension, of permission of stay, not a visa, is 800,000 Baht in the bank, 65,000 Baht per month income, or a combination of the two. You and your wife could enter the country, hopefully on an "O" Visa, you would be stamped in 90 days, with about 30 days remaining, you go to Immigration, and apply for the Extension of Stay. When you are granted the extension, your wife can apply, without separate funds, for an extension, based as your dependent. In the event of your death, yes, she would need to show the funds, independently and apply for the extension on her on.

If you can't obtain an "O" Visa before coming to Thailand, you can still obtain the Extension, you would just need to go through a visa status adjustment. Another words, if you entered on a Tourist Visa, you would go to Immigration, explain to them you want to apply, they would cancel the Tourist Visa, and issue an "O" Visa, so that permission to stay can be extended. There would be a fee for the "O" Visa, then later another fee for the extension.

[moe666]

After one of you receives the extension of stay then the other person applies for a extension of stay as a dependent no need for money but will have to show a marriage certificate to confirm relationship. The 90 day report as above only for people in country longer than 90 days if you leave it resets the calendar. On an extension of stay you both will need re-entry permits obtainable at immigration or at the airport.

[mahjongguy]

"Same question if we were to be ‘absent’ at the 12 month renewal time."

That is the one hitch. You need to be here sometime during the 30 days prior to the expiration of your annual extension in order to apply in person for renewal. If you miss it, the process must be started over from the beginning.

[wayned]

"Same question if we were to be ‘absent’ at the 12 month renewal time."

That is the one hitch. You need to be here sometime during the 30 days prior to the expiration of your annual extension in order to apply in person for renewal. If you miss it, the process must be started over from the beginning.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but, the process from the beginning for a retirement extension is the same as a renewal. Same form, TM7, same copies of your passport, and same supporting documentation - proof of address and financial documents.

[Cuppa]

Thank you for the prompt answers folks.

A couple of follow ups.

1.We have only ever had joint bank accounts, but establishing an individual one in my name only wouldn’t be a problem. However having a joint account is something we both find more convenient, so is there any reason, once the ‘permission of stay’ has been granted, that we should not open a joint account, funded from my individual 800,000 Baht account provided that we ensure that my individual account is topped back up to 800,000 Baht within the expected timeframes for a renewal of the extension (9 months aftr the granting of permission to stay)?

2.So the term ‘follower’ I’ve read elsewhere means the same as ‘dependent’?

3.It concerns me a little that it is not possible to get permission to reside prior to coming to Thailand.

Is it certain that this cannot be arranged through the Thai embassy in my country?

Planning to live in a new country but not not knowing if permission will be granted until you are actually there seems like a process with unnecessary uncertainty, or is that just how it is.

[paz]

3.It concerns me a little that it is not possible to get permission to reside prior to coming to Thailand.

Is it certain that this cannot be arranged through the Thai embassy in my country?

Planning to live in a new country but not not knowing if permission will be granted until you are actually there seems like a process with unnecessary uncertainty, or is that just how it is.

There is no "ifs", permission will be granted if the requisites are met. However if you want to obtain "permission to stat" that actually lasts two years, get a non-imm O-A visa in you country. For more information you can search "O-A visa" or check you local consulate/ embassy website.

[paz]

Sorry for the bad spelling of my post above, "permission to stay", "your country", etc.

[Cuppa]

Thanks paz,

So if I have it correctly we can organise the Non Imm O-A visa through the Thai embassy/consulate here in Australia prior to travelling, & the way I read it here it should be acceptable to provide proof of funds in our Australian bank (with the requirement to transfer the necessary funds in a Thai Bank prior to renewal for a second or subsequent years).

[paz]

Correct, O-A visa can be used for two years doing one trip outside Thailand.

Unlike the extension of stay obtained in Thailand you will also need a medical certificate and police records.

[Cuppa]

Thanks again.

I’m still don’t really understand the two year bit. The link in my last post referred to 1 year with possibility of extending. Are you saying if you only make one trip outside of Thailand during two years that the O-A Visa can last two years? Any chance you might be able to provide a link for me which explains that further?

Presumably if we had an O-A visa & made more than one trip outside of Thailand we would be required to seek an extension after 1 year?

Sorry if I’m being a bit slow to get my head around this.

[mahjongguy]

"...the process from the beginning for a retirement extension is the same as a renewal."

Wayned makes a good point. It's not that big a deal if you miss your renewal date. Still, it seems to be something that most everyone tries to avoid.

[moe666]

Thanks again.

I’m still don’t really understand the two year bit. The link in my last post referred to 1 year with possibility of extending. Are you saying if you only make one trip outside of Thailand during two years that the O-A Visa can last two years? Any chance you might be able to provide a link for me which explains that further?

Presumably if we had an O-A visa & made more than one trip outside of Thailand we would be required to seek an extension after 1 year?

Sorry if I’m being a bit slow to get my head around this.

The O-A visa is issued by an Embassy outside of Thailand both of you will need one. The money needs to be in the bank or investment of the country you apply. You apply for a multiply entry on the first year you can come and go into Thailand as often as you like and will receive a stamp for one year each time that you do. A few days before the first year expires leave the country and return before it expires and you will be stamped in for one more year, now to come and go you will need a re-entry permit. 90 day reporting to immigration is necessary during both years if you do not leave the country remember 90 day reporting has nothing to do with the validity of the visa or extension of stay it is a separate process.

You will need to transfer money 800,000baht into Thailand if you plan on obtaining an extension of stay at the end of your O-A visa. Yes you can move this money around during the year just be sure it is topped up prior to 60 days for first extension and 90 days for each after that

[moe666]

"...the process from the beginning for a retirement extension is the same as a renewal."

Wayned makes a good point. It's not that big a deal if you miss your renewal date. Still, it seems to be something that most everyone tries to avoid.

You start the whole process over obtain a new non-o visa or convert a tourist visa to a non-o then extend the non-o it just requires more than one trip to a immigration office and getting the supporting documents together two times as opposed to once. Planning your trips and stays outside of the country will avoid needing to start the process over again

[WaywardWind]

Thank you for the prompt answers folks.

A couple of follow ups.

1.We have only ever had joint bank accounts, but establishing an individual one in my name only wouldn’t be a problem. However having a joint account is something we both find more convenient, so is there any reason, once the ‘permission of stay’ has been granted, that we should not open a joint account, funded from my individual 800,000 Baht account provided that we ensure that my individual account is topped back up to 800,000 Baht within the expected timeframes for a renewal of the extension (9 months aftr the granting of permission to stay)?

My wife and I are on individual (not follower) visa extensions. We both have pension income from our respective countries, but hers is insufficient to meet the 800,000 annual income requirement.

We opened three accounts at Bangkok Bank: 1 joint, and 1 in each of our names individually. Each year, we transfer funds from our Australian bank to the joint account sufficient to pay the rent for the year, plus a bit extra. When it is time to renew our visa extension, we first obtain the necessary affidavits from our respective embassies (US and AUS), then transfer (electronically online) enough funds to cover her shortfall from the joint account to her individual account, have that bank book updated, and obtain the necessary letter from the bank verifying the amount on deposit. We then immediately apply for the extensions, and when we have received them, we go to the bank and transfer the funds back into the joint account.

Works like a charm.

[Cuppa]

Thanks moe666.

Right, it’s getting clearer (& seemingly easier than I had been thinking). When you say “The O-A visa is issued by an Embassy outside of Thailand both of you will need one.” does this still allow for ‘spouse & dependant’

(albeit each with a Visa) but just a single 800,000 Baht bank deposit, or 800,000 Baht per person?

The reason I am trying to clarify this, is that I have read elsewhere & have been told that Thai banks can be less secure than here in Australia, & if that is so my preference would be to keep our exposure to risk to a minimum. This matter obviously wouldn’t be an issue when first applying from Australia, but could be when renewal time comes around.

The way I would like to manage the money side of things would be to transfer the minimum amount to a Thai bank, draw from it during the year & then top it up from our Australian account backup to the minimum required amount again when renewal time rolls around.

EDIT. WaywardWind posted whilst I was typing. Based on his post it seems that it may be simple, following extension being granted, to transfer funds back to our Australian bank. I guess the cost of transfers may determine whether it is preferable to have separate visas or spouse & dependent visas.

This forum is helpful...... appreciate it.

[NancyL]

If possible, I'd suggest that the OP and his wife each have a retirement visa in their own right and not have one be considered as a dependent. If the marriage ends for any reason, the dependent's permission to stay ends and (presumably) she will have to deal with visa issues during a time when she'll have more than enough other problems.

I've seen five ladies I know go thru this already -- three where the husbands decided to take off with new Thai girlfriends and didn't bother to show up to handle necessary business at the immigration office and two where the husbands died. With the first three, needless to say, the marriages were over, but the women had hoped they could keep the depend visas going, at least for a while, until things were sorted in their lives. With the two widows, they were astonished to learn they were on overstay and expected to pay a fine when they finally went to see a visa agent after the funerals.

[Lite Beer]

Applying for the Non O-A Visa is more difficult than applying for extensions in Thailand.

You will need a police report and a medical certificate.

Applying in Thailand does not need these.

Personally I would both arrive with single Non Imm O Visas and your apply for a 12 month extension and you Wife apply as your dependant.

Up to you of course.

[beechguy]

Thanks moe666.

Right, it’s getting clearer (& seemingly easier than I had been thinking). When you say “The O-A visa is issued by an Embassy outside of Thailand both of you will need one.” does this still allow for ‘spouse & dependant’

(albeit each with a Visa) but just a single 800,000 Baht bank deposit, or 800,000 Baht per person?

The reason I am trying to clarify this, is that I have read elsewhere & have been told that Thai banks can be less secure than here in Australia, & if that is so my preference would be to keep our exposure to risk to a minimum. This matter obviously wouldn’t be an issue when first applying from Australia, but could be when renewal time comes around.

The way I would like to manage the money side of things would be to transfer the minimum amount to a Thai bank, draw from it during the year & then top it up from our Australian account backup to the minimum required amount again when renewal time rolls around.

EDIT. WaywardWind posted whilst I was typing. Based on his post it seems that it may be simple, following extension being granted, to transfer funds back to our Australian bank. I guess the cost of transfers may determine whether it is preferable to have separate visas or spouse & dependent visas.

This forum is helpful...... appreciate it.

I would say the comments about the Thai banks are fairly ignorant on their part. You just need to make a decision, do you want your wife to be a dependent/follower, or do you want her to have her own, independent visa, or extension of stay. If going the independent route for either, plan on her having to meet all of the financial, and other requirements on her own.

[Cuppa]

You make a good point NancyL.

With 32 years of happy marriage behind us I think the chances of me (or her) running off with someone else are non-existent, but I guess I can’t promise not to die! We had already this discussed this, & were feeling secure inasmuch as my wife, if a dependent, would still have full access to our funds in Australia, giving her the option of returning, or of applying for a retirement visa in her own right. However on the basis of WaywardWind’s experience & your point, it may well make more sense simply to have separate retirement visas from the get go.

[ubonjoe]

Thanks moe666.

Right, it’s getting clearer (& seemingly easier than I had been thinking). When you say “The O-A visa is issued by an Embassy outside of Thailand both of you will need one.” does this still allow for ‘spouse & dependant’

(albeit each with a Visa) but just a single 800,000 Baht bank deposit, or 800,000 Baht per person?

The reason I am trying to clarify this, is that I have read elsewhere & have been told that Thai banks can be less secure than here in Australia, & if that is so my preference would be to keep our exposure to risk to a minimum. This matter obviously wouldn’t be an issue when first applying from Australia, but could be when renewal time comes around.

The way I would like to manage the money side of things would be to transfer the minimum amount to a Thai bank, draw from it during the year & then top it up from our Australian account backup to the minimum required amount again when renewal time rolls around.

EDIT. WaywardWind posted whilst I was typing. Based on his post it seems that it may be simple, following extension being granted, to transfer funds back to our Australian bank. I guess the cost of transfers may determine whether it is preferable to have separate visas or spouse & dependent visas.

This forum is helpful...... appreciate it.

Before the 29th of this month if you got the OA visa your wife would only get a multiple entry non-o visa and would have to leave the country every 90 days for new entry. Now due to a change of the rules she can get a single entry non-o and apply for a dependent extension at immigration here based upon your non-oa visa entry.

For info on applying for the OA visa at the embassy see this PDF. http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/doc/form/Long%20stay%20Visa%20O-A%20(5)%20updated%20020114.pdf

You will get different opinions about the security of Thai banks. Your deposits are guaranteed by Thai law in case of bank failure. In my opinion I would not worry about the security.

You also have the option of showing 65k income proven by statutory declaration at the Oz embassy or a combination of the money in the bank and income totaling 800k baht to get the extension of stay,

[Lite Beer]

You make a good point NancyL.

With 32 years of happy marriage behind us I think the chances of me (or her) running off with someone else are non-existent, but I guess I can’t promise not to die! We had already this discussed this, & were feeling secure inasmuch as my wife, if a dependent, would still have full access to our funds in Australia, giving her the option of returning, or of applying for a retirement visa in her own right.

No need to worry.

If you should die your Wife can keep her extension until it expires if she goes the dependant route.

She would not of course be able to apply for another one when it does expire.

[OJAS]

Thanks again.

I’m still don’t really understand the two year bit. The link in my last post referred to 1 year with possibility of extending. Are you saying if you only make one trip outside of Thailand during two years that the O-A Visa can last two years? Any chance you might be able to provide a link for me which explains that further?

Presumably if we had an O-A visa & made more than one trip outside of Thailand we would be required to seek an extension after 1 year?

Sorry if I’m being a bit slow to get my head around this.

Whereas in most other countries the expiry date of a visa means the date by which you must leave the country, this is not the case for Thailand. The "expiry" date of an OA visa, for example, actually means the date by which it needs to be "used by".

Allow me to explain what I mean by "use by" by reference to my own personal experience with my original OA visa which I obtained from the Royal Thai Embassy in London on 14 August 2008. I first "used" it on 26 October 2008 to gain entry into Thailand, when I was admitted for 12 months until 25 October 2009.

I then "used" it a second time the day before it "expired" on 13 August 2009 to gain entry into Thailand on 12 August 2009 following a trip back to the UK, when I was admitted for a further 12 months until 11 August 2010.

Had I not needed 2-3 months to wind up my affairs in the UK before moving out here and therefore been able to first "use" my OA visa in August 2008 rather than on 26 October 2008, I would, indeed, have got almost a full 2 years out of it!

[Cuppa]

OJAS - Got it, thanks.

Joining & posting here truly has been a fruitful exercise, thanks again to all. It’ll be a while yet before we make it over there but I now feel that I have a working understanding of the requirements, & more importantly a very real sense that what was only recently a seed of an idea, is in fact realistic. It is always helpful to have one’s hopes & dreams validated by knowing that others have had the same.

regards

Cuppa

[Arkady]

Joint accounts are no longer acceptable. Must be separate accounts in name of each applicant.

[junk1e]

The 800,000 each appears to keep changing and depends on where you report! In Phuket up to 3 years ago we had a joint account with 800,000, no problem. 2 years ago was no good and account had to be in my name and wife as dependent. 1 year ago and this year (july) insisted both had to have 800,000 in bank or 1.6 million in joint account. Heard this month but not confirmed that has reverted to 800,000 and wife can be dependent again, but this not confirmed, so would suggest checking with your local immigration office prior to extending your visa. Also note money must be in bank for at least 3 months prior to extending visa each year. You must report every 90 days to immigration office who issue you with a reporting receipt which must be kept in passport. If you leave country before the 90 days then you start again so in theory you never need to report if you leave country regularly though you must get re-entry permit (multi or single entry) and best to do this the same time you extend visa.

[mrfaroukh]

What you need is just 800 000 in a Thai bank in your name and she get the dependent visa. Some people say that the dependent visa will be only given on extension that you must find out. Else if you have a income prove of 65000 Baht a month then is much easier.

[peterb17]

Good luck with your retirement plans

Personally I would recommend the multiple entry O-A route for both of you.

Yes you have to jump through a few more hoops - the rather bizarre medical report and also a police check ( I presume you are an upstanding citizen )

Also you will both have to demonstrate that you have funds

The great thing about this route Is once you arrive in the Kingdom - you can get on with life and just have to do the 90 day reporting which takes 5 mins ( depends of course how far you are from an immigration office)

Then before your O-A expires, go for a pleasant trip to Angkor Wat or Seoul or where ever - you will be stamped in for another year.

But do not forget if you leave for a holiday in the second year - re- entry permit required- takes a bit of time at immigration- but what the hell- you are retired and can spare an hour or so?

Yes you will both have to have the 800,000 in banks accounts to apply for the extension of stay- but once that is done no more problems.

So O- A is the way to go - once done it's all very easy

Enjoy your time on the beach!

[ubonjoe]

There is no requirement for any financial proof to get a dependent extension based upon the spouses extension based upon retirement.

[marios]

I was baffled by the same question myself. I asked the Thai Law firm 'Thai Legal' and through a chat with a very helpful person I was assured that only 800000 is required. The wife is considered a dependent.

I found the site of Thai Legal in Thaivisa. They have a chat facility.

I hope this helps as far as the first leg of your question.

Good luck