Just moved back to the states after 5 years. Sticker shock.

[pgrahmm]

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OP you lived in thailand did you work in thailand and earn thai wages?

Because of the exchange rates between the USD and bht the costs would seem much cheaper for you.

I got by on about 40,000-50,000 baht a month from my internet biz. I had TONS of money for fun. There was never a dull night. I lived like a Thai and blew the rest on vice. Could never do that here.

If America is such a sh#thole, and Thailand so great ....Why move back to the US???

The reason I may have to go back is to give my kids some opportunity at a quality education! I love it here!

Home school.....

[huawei]

Never mind the $$$$$ costs wait until you see how sour the attitudes of the people has gotten in the last 5-6 years......the place has gone from optomistic to despair......

That - to me is a much higher cost LOS it is not.....

And talk about inflation.....the average woman in the USA weighs 164 pounds/74 kilos/11.7 stone.....heavy price to pay - let alone feed.....

So has Thailand since the 1997 crisis on both counts .

[beechguy]

The largest part of most budgets is housing and Thailand is half or less than half of what is spent in the USA on housing.

There is no way around it. Housing is cheaper in Thailand. The only possible argument is the old chestnut about owning. If you want to get into that argument again go ahead but it's been done a thousand times on Thai visa and is not relative to cost. Cost is cost. Ownership issues are a separate issue.

Yes there is no way around it - Housing costs are important.

That's why so many expats are able to afford to live in Thailand in the first place, they had access to mortgages, bought property, paid down the debt and came out with a profit (Negative cost) - In many cases this turned out to be a substantial profit

The OP is in his 30s, this path to future financial security is all but closed to him in Thailand.

But he can buy a meal for Bht30.

Yep, bought my first house when I was 16, paid $14,000, my dad co-signing and teaching me about credit. I had it for 15 years, mostly renting it out. Then I sold it for $186,000.

I still own three houses. All are paid for and generate an income. This was possible in part due to what you said, mortgages, but also due to an excellent real estate system in the States. Something that does not exist here.

Oh, yeah, and hard work at a young age.

I wonder what the prices would be in some areas, if they weren't being propped up by the government(tax payer)?

[i claudius]

There is nothing wrong with living like a thai my wife and I live just like our thai neighbours .we live in a 4bed detached house drive a high end car and have everything that they have.do there is nothing wrong with living like a thai

[i claudius]

Yes, well that is exactly why so many foreigners decide to stay in Thailand. That and the weather of course :-)

There is nothing wrong with living like a thai my wife and I live just like our thai neighbours .we live in a 4bed detached house drive a high end car and have everything that they have.so there is nothing wrong with living like a thai

[aussiebebe]

I've never been to the States but what seems really incredible to me is the price of cars over there. According to Chevrolet's website, a Camaro sports car retails for $24,000 - what's the catch? Is there huge sales tax or expensive servicing? That buys you a Honda City in Thailand lol.

[mesquite]

Expensive servicing for sure.

[mesquite]

The largest part of most budgets is housing and Thailand is half or less than half of what is spent in the USA on housing.

There is no way around it. Housing is cheaper in Thailand. The only possible argument is the old chestnut about owning. If you want to get into that argument again go ahead but it's been done a thousand times on Thai visa and is not relative to cost. Cost is cost. Ownership issues are a separate issue.

Yes there is no way around it - Housing costs are important.

That's why so many expats are able to afford to live in Thailand in the first place, they had access to mortgages, bought property, paid down the debt and came out with a profit (Negative cost) - In many cases this turned out to be a substantial profit

The OP is in his 30s, this path to future financial security is all but closed to him in Thailand.

But he can buy a meal for Bht30.

Yep, bought my first house when I was 16, paid $14,000, my dad co-signing and teaching me about credit. I had it for 15 years, mostly renting it out. Then I sold it for $186,000.

I still own three houses. All are paid for and generate an income. This was possible in part due to what you said, mortgages, but also due to an excellent real estate system in the States. Something that does not exist here.

Oh, yeah, and hard work at a young age.

I wonder what the prices would be in some areas, if they weren't being propped up by the government(tax payer)?

Probably would be much less, but it will never happen. They've been talking about eliminating the mortgage interest tax deduction, or going to a flat rate tax which would do the same thing, for 30 years. Won't happen.

[sundrenched]

I live in Thailand the same or close to the same way I lived in the States. In Thailand it costs me $20,000 per year in the States it cost me $120,000.

Come on. I'm sure you can construct a far-fetched apples vs oranges example of how 20k a year (roughly 50k Baht a month) in Thailand gives you a better lifestyle than 120k in the US, but generally speaking, that's barely scraping by in Thailand (I pay that in rent and it's the worst apartment I've had in my adult life, and without being extravagant spend again the same amount out of pocket), whereas in the US 120k a year would allow you to live really well almost anywhere. Even in Manhattan you can live a VERY comfortable life on that (I did live there myself for 5 years and still have many friends there).

As others have said, it depends on your lifestyle and what you like in life. For some things the US is cheaper, for others Thailand. Frankly, the few things that are cheap in Thailand are not major spending categories for me, and I'm not one to get excited about scoring a meal for 30 Baht. For my current lifestyle, for the things I like and spend my money on, the US would be cheaper without question.

It's all good if you're happy, but I know more than one farang here surviving on chickenshit and who's protesting too much that this is what he wants and that he's happy.

Edited September 1, 2014 by sundrenched

[2fishin2]

Problem with Thailand is you get what you pay for. Shitty food full of chemicals and pesticides. Shopping at Tesco or Big C with their crap products that break or dont even work all within a 2 or 3 month (if youre lucky) time period. Unsanitary water and cooking. How about the danger on roadways. Rippoffs from locals who see the whiteman as an endless money pit. A government even more paralyzing than the US. I guess those are good reasons to stay in a third world country such as Thailand. Im sure there are more good reasons however, right now Im still thinking about them all.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[beechguy]

I've never been to the States but what seems really incredible to me is the price of cars over there. According to Chevrolet's website, a Camaro sports car retails for $24,000 - what's the catch? Is there huge sales tax or expensive servicing? That buys you a Honda City in Thailand lol.

The catch is, that is the bottom of the barrel Camaro, you can spend up to 65-70K if you want. Sales tax depends on what state your in.

[beechguy]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

And to add,

No computer, smartphone or Hi-fi gear, all much cheaper in the USA.

No bicycles, cars or m/cs, all cheaper in the USA.

What about fruit juice, that has to be cheaper than Thailand.

Apples and oranges, way more expensive in Thailand.

I'm not sure about the deals on computers being better in the U.S. I'm pretty satisfied with the quality and price I've gotten in Thailand. As to other things, who says we can't have U.S. stuff because we live in Thailand? I haven't lived in the U.S. for 16 years, but buy clothes and shoes that I like, when I'm there, then carry them back or mail them. There isn't really much that I miss about U.S. food or products, but I'm not a big consumer.

On the plus side for Thailand, there is a lot I like about it, and enjoy the ease of travel to the surrounding countries.

[Loptr]

I've never been to the States but what seems really incredible to me is the price of cars over there. According to Chevrolet's website, a Camaro sports car retails for $24,000 - what's the catch? Is there huge sales tax or expensive servicing? That buys you a Honda City in Thailand lol.

No one in the US with any sense buys American cars... There is a reason that the Toyota Camry has been the best selling car in the US for more than a decade...

[JAFO]

Well as typical this thread took a path that most of these threads usually do. Many points have been made about low cost housing in the US. I agree they exist but they are not in places many would want to live so its moot IMHO. Heck you could buy a few rai and a small old Teak home for dirt cheap but doubt many foreigners would want to do it.

In the end foreigners are in Thailand for their own personal reasons. We are not all here for the same ones that's for sure. The OP is young I agree, but he gained very valuable experience for later in life. I suspect once he settles back down he will make some adjustments. His venting here on TV wasn't bad. Its how he felt and saw it all. As I have mentioned I am in the states right now(California to be specific) in the heart of Silicon Valley. When my wife first landed it was brutal sticker shock on most everything. Now after being here for awhile she has done some very careful assessments and of course reports it back to her sister. Below are some of her thoughts as she spouted them off at me while I typed this

Biggest Cons: Housing costs/ Rents, Can never really own your house due to property taxes. taxes taken from paycheck, property tax, sales tax, medical insurance fees, car insurance fees, fees to own vehicles, virtually no public transportation, Environmental charges when buying anything electronic or plastic, processed foods and packaged meats, Cell bill ($158 a month for 2 teles and locked into a 2 year contract with huge fees if you exit early), too many stop lights, No daily markets to go get fresh food in the morning, rude people and bad drivers, Going out to dinner costs way too much for what you get(She laughs at Thai restaurants and what they charge and most is not even authentic Thai food), not enough holidays, airfare is too expensive, ocean water is too cold. Crab and lobster way to expensive.

Biggest Pros: Mild temperatures, nice roads, good fruit variety, easy to find a job even if over 40, can return anything after you buy it if you do not like it, Lots to go see and do(But at a steep price), wine selection, low cost high quality clothing and linens, Victoria Secret (555), online ordering, car selection

Things she doesn't understand: Why they spend millions of tax payers dollars on sidewalks here and nobody walks anywhere, or on big parks that very few use, or huge parking lots that are empty or why they build new buildings for businesses when hundreds sit empty. Why people are so wasteful and inconsiderate, She has a hard time with the mix of immigrants, She struggles with loud rude Viets and Chinese and pushy Indians. She does not understand all the Mexicans that clean peoples yards and use leaf blowers to just blow it all out in the street only to have it blow into other peoples yards. She thinks its hilarious to watch people walk their dogs and have to pick up their poop or get a fine.

In the end I am glad we were able to come this way for awhile while I work. I wanted my wife to see the "Real" US not what the media portrays as the best place to live on the planet. The company paid for her to move with me here and it is for a manageable period of time. We both agree( after numerous heart to heart talks) we like our life way better back in Thailand. We could stay here no problem but we feel our quality of life will suffer and that I would have to work until I die to sustain the COL. Plus we would have to cram life into weekends and feel exhausted because we had to rush everywhere we go. Its funny, we have taken some weekend trips and after they were done we had some great pictures but did not enjoy the trip as much as we could have because I had to return to work. The cost to get away is extremely high. Most people get 2 weeks a year to go relax and see things. That's not much time. Sadly when you finally can retire you are too old to go off and do things as most have medical issues now of some sort.

Anyway I took the time to post this to be clear, I do not hate the US. There are many things I love about it, In fact its a GREAT place to visit quite honestly. I just find I get a bigger bang for my dollar in Thailand, live with way less stress and live life on my terms. Here in the states someone always has their hand in my pocket. FWIIW, My burn rate here renting a little house, 2 cars, all other expenses costs me roughly 150,000 baht a month not counting any entertainment. Add in entertainment and any shopping and that number quickly goes over 200,000 baht. That does not include what I have to give out of my check to the Fed and State. In Thailand my wife and I live very very well on 25,000 to 35,000 as we have no debt because our home and vehicles are paid for.

[JAFO]

Problem with Thailand is you get what you pay for. Shitty food full of chemicals and pesticides. Shopping at Tesco or Big C with their crap products that break or dont even work all within a 2 or 3 month (if youre lucky) time period. Unsanitary water and cooking. How about the danger on roadways. Rippoffs from locals who see the whiteman as an endless money pit. A government even more paralyzing than the US. I guess those are good reasons to stay in a third world country such as Thailand. Im sure there are more good reasons however, right now Im still thinking about them all.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You must live in Pattaya or Phuket... Sounds exactly like the life there.....

[farang000999]

This was posted by Guesthouse in another topic and is relevant to this discussion

Its a curious thing.

I know dozens (and I mean dozens) of professional Thai people who have moved to the UK, often for 1~2 year assignments, sometimes for permanent jobs - All earning very good money in the UK by UK standards.

As a general rule, the Thai women have liked the UK far more than the Thai men many of the women choosing to remain beyond their original assignment date, very very few of the men choosing to do so.

I assumed, not unnaturally that the reason the Thai women liked the UK was their 'currency' was so much higher in UK society, and the opposite being true for the men.

Discussing this with Thai men and women working in the UK, the 'currency' issue as certainly a consideration, but the major consideration for the women as the level of respect they receive as professionals in the UK compared to Thailand AND the 'social wage'.

The latter is a huge issue for women with children or planning to have a family.

Many members above have mentioned the UK taxes, but neglect the UK 'social wage' that comes with the taxes - First rate education, health care, social and welfare services, public transport, policing and law and order.

Its not simply a matter of the benefits to professional high earners. Many non professional Thai women working in the UK will be remitting funds back to their family, that despite the costs of living in the UK will still exceed the amounts they can save if they remain in Thailand.

I personally know of a Thai woman ( a single mother) who works two jobs, as a cleaner and a cook in a pub serving Thai food, who has raised her children through school and university in the UK and saved enough to buy a house to retire to in Thailand. Dreams out of her reach in Thailand.

Cold beer and lukewarm women are of course not as freely available in the UK as in Thailand, but then most women don't have these in their list of life needs.

What is funny about these types of topics is that what many are essentially saying is:

"Back home I would be a total loser and have a horrible lifestyle but in Thailand I can have a very good lifestyle based on my own individual wants and needs."

But they never ever word it that way. They instead put all the blame on their home country - some existential force or conspiracy against them - often immigrants. They never hint they underperformed in their home countries, made bad decisions or didn't work hard enough. It is never their fault.

[farang000999]

I wonder how all those Thai restaurant owners charging $15 for fried rice feel about the USA.

[Cypress Hill]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The largest part of most budgets is housing and Thailand is half or less than half of what is spent in the USA on housing.

There is no way around it. Housing is cheaper in Thailand. The only possible argument is the old chestnut about owning. If you want to get into that argument again go ahead but it's been done a thousand times on Thai visa and is not relative to cost. Cost is cost. Ownership issues are a separate issue.

Yes there is no way around it - Housing costs are important.

That's why so many expats are able to afford to live in Thailand in the first place, they had access to mortgages, bought property, paid down the debt and came out with a profit (Negative cost) - In many cases this turned out to be a substantial profit alt=tongue.png>

The OP is in his 30s, this path to future financial security is all but closed to him in Thailand.

But he can buy a meal for Bht30.

Real estate isn't the slam dunk it once was. Like equity markets, it's when everyone's bullish and even the bin man is talking about clubbing together with 3 mates to buy a studio flat to rent out that you know the game's up.

It's all about timing and a lot of people who are getting stupid income multiples to buy matchboxes in overinflated property markets are going to be absolutely obliterated when the shoe drops.

The conventional path to future financial security is obsolete, I'm afraid. Look at Spain, Greece . . .even the UK. People can't get jobs commensurate with their qualifications.

Your average working stiff can't save a bean; Even if he can, he's getting comedy returns from the banks/thrifts.

His/her pension scheme is likely one of those money purchase, targeted contribution abominations that rely on stock or bond market performance, his mortgage interest is low but his mortgage - and, by extension, his repayment - is huge; his grocery bill is increasing, his taxes are increasing, gas prices, energy prices, heating oil, insurance . . . Need I go on?

If, however, he could earn money by less conventional means and live somewhere really cheap like Thailand, he could save/invest and live well rather than busting his balls for 30+ years only to be diagnosed with a trick aorta or prostate cancer 6 months after retiring.

<deleted> that

[NeverSure]

So we can conclude that while here, you lived wholly like a Thai?

No cheese or wine? No single malts or cream cheese? No Doritos? No rib-eyes? No bacon and sausage for breakfast? No tacos or burritos? All of which are still cheaper in the States.

Living "frugally" can be quite a yawn inducing existence.

I understand your sentiments, but me, I'm not interested in "getting by." I'd rather work hard and play hard. I've got five years here non-stop myself, and can't wait to go back, both to work at a very nice salary, and to eat, eat, eat.

It's all relevant.

And to add,

No computer, smartphone or Hi-fi gear, all much cheaper in the USA.

No bicycles, cars or m/cs, all cheaper in the USA.

What about fruit juice, that has to be cheaper than Thailand.

Apples and oranges, way more expensive in Thailand.

I experience Thailand as being more expensive than the US in every area except rent and utilities if the quality was the same.

A friend of mine who lives in Thailand and I both coincidentally bought new laptops in the US not long ago. I paid $395 (1,247 baht) all in - out the door for a 15" Toshiba Satellite with 6 gig of ram and Win 8 pro 64 bit pre installed and validated. He opted for one that was a little over $400.

I can buy a new Camry for $18K US (575K baht) all in. If I stay away from the big and expensive cities, I can buy a really nice house and land for

$75K (2.4 mil bht.) Some examples - take your pick.

The US doesn't charge import duties and Thailand hammers with them. Even within Thailand there is this huge tax on cars and pickups that I don't understand. Almost every consumer good I can think of is cheaper in the US. Shall we talk about cheese and wine, LOL?

If a person actually lived more like a Thai but in the US, he could get by just fine and still have 1st world amenities.

IMHO it doesn't come down to cost but rather preference.

Cheers

[justcruisin]

Well as typical this thread took a path that most of these threads usually do. Many points have been made about low cost housing in the US. I agree they exist but they are not in places many would want to live so its moot IMHO. Heck you could buy a few rai and a small old Teak home for dirt cheap but doubt many foreigners would want to do it.

In the end foreigners are in Thailand for their own personal reasons. We are not all here for the same ones that's for sure. The OP is young I agree, but he gained very valuable experience for later in life. I suspect once he settles back down he will make some adjustments. His venting here on TV wasn't bad. Its how he felt and saw it all. As I have mentioned I am in the states right now(California to be specific) in the heart of Silicon Valley. When my wife first landed it was brutal sticker shock on most everything. Now after being here for awhile she has done some very careful assessments and of course reports it back to her sister. Below are some of her thoughts as she spouted them off at me while I typed this

Biggest Cons: Housing costs/ Rents, Can never really own your house due to property taxes. taxes taken from paycheck, property tax, sales tax, medical insurance fees, car insurance fees, fees to own vehicles, virtually no public transportation, Environmental charges when buying anything electronic or plastic, processed foods and packaged meats, Cell bill ($158 a month for 2 teles and locked into a 2 year contract with huge fees if you exit early), too many stop lights, No daily markets to go get fresh food in the morning, rude people and bad drivers, Going out to dinner costs way too much for what you get(She laughs at Thai restaurants and what they charge and most is not even authentic Thai food), not enough holidays, airfare is too expensive, ocean water is too cold. Crab and lobster way to expensive.

Biggest Pros: Mild temperatures, nice roads, good fruit variety, easy to find a job even if over 40, can return anything after you buy it if you do not like it, Lots to go see and do(But at a steep price), wine selection, low cost high quality clothing and linens, Victoria Secret (555), online ordering, car selection

Things she doesn't understand: Why they spend millions of tax payers dollars on sidewalks here and nobody walks anywhere, or on big parks that very few use, or huge parking lots that are empty or why they build new buildings for businesses when hundreds sit empty. Why people are so wasteful and inconsiderate, She has a hard time with the mix of immigrants, She struggles with loud rude Viets and Chinese and pushy Indians. She does not understand all the Mexicans that clean peoples yards and use leaf blowers to just blow it all out in the street only to have it blow into other peoples yards. She thinks its hilarious to watch people walk their dogs and have to pick up their poop or get a fine.

In the end I am glad we were able to come this way for awhile while I work. I wanted my wife to see the "Real" US not what the media portrays as the best place to live on the planet. The company paid for her to move with me here and it is for a manageable period of time. We both agree( after numerous heart to heart talks) we like our life way better back in Thailand. We could stay here no problem but we feel our quality of life will suffer and that I would have to work until I die to sustain the COL. Plus we would have to cram life into weekends and feel exhausted because we had to rush everywhere we go. Its funny, we have taken some weekend trips and after they were done we had some great pictures but did not enjoy the trip as much as we could have because I had to return to work. The cost to get away is extremely high. Most people get 2 weeks a year to go relax and see things. That's not much time. Sadly when you finally can retire you are too old to go off and do things as most have medical issues now of some sort.

Anyway I took the time to post this to be clear, I do not hate the US. There are many things I love about it, In fact its a GREAT place to visit quite honestly. I just find I get a bigger bang for my dollar in Thailand, live with way less stress and live life on my terms. Here in the states someone always has their hand in my pocket. FWIIW, My burn rate here renting a little house, 2 cars, all other expenses costs me roughly 150,000 baht a month not counting any entertainment. Add in entertainment and any shopping and that number quickly goes over 200,000 baht. That does not include what I have to give out of my check to the Fed and State. In Thailand my wife and I live very very well on 25,000 to 35,000 as we have no debt because our home and vehicles are paid for.

An excellenent appraisal JAFO.

I have the same reasons exactly as you stated for living in Thailand, I too took my wife back to (sorry off topic) Aussie land about 5 years ago and she was shocked and surprised at some of the prices, a hotel room $150, cheapest is $110 unles you want a backpacker style. Police radar everywhere for 4mph over $120 fine. 5 weeks up North Qld 3,500Km. Good to eat some good tucker and drink a few good aussie beers and pleased to get back to reality pricing in Thai.

My missus also said the roads were excellent, was intriuged by the wide unused sidewalks and the cost of Thai food there. Lucky she likes good beef steak during the camp draft Rodeo circuit that she had to endure, meaning a big cowboy mate gave her a bear hug and I suspected cracked a couple of ribs. Not his fault as he is built like a brich shithouse and his son is nicknamed Bear! Im stayin here and noi doesnt like Rodeos or big hats and cowboys. Any of you guys from Texas?

[NeverSure]

There are some things that if retired you'd lose by moving to Thailand including Medicare health insurance which doesn't go away with age. There's no way of predicting what that will be worth.

If I had a couple of bucks saved up for retirement but relatively low income, I'd buy one of the houses linked above and rent out a private bedroom and private bath, use of washer and dryer and kitchen for $500 a month (easy,) use that to pay the utilities, taxes, insurance, internet etc. and live in the house for free. I'd sure never put a dime into a house in Thailand when I couldn't own the land.

I don't think it's cheaper to live in Thailand than in the US if you buy Western things. I think the US is the cheapest Western country to live in by a wide margin so it's probably a lot different for those from other countries.

Edited September 1, 2014 by NeverSure

[cobra]

I've never been to the States but what seems really incredible to me is the price of cars over there. According to Chevrolet's website, a Camaro sports car retails for $24,000 - what's the catch? Is there huge sales tax or expensive servicing? That buys you a Honda City in Thailand lol.

It's the business model, you must buy thru a "Dealership',

They'll mark-up ~10 - 30%, and charge whatever the market will bare if the particular model is in demand and limited availability.

If you could order directly from the factory without middlemen prices would be very reasonable.

[danmarnj]

It never ceases to amaze me that people who make bad choices in life or try to figure out a shortcut to avoid education or career come to LOS to live Thai native existence. When they get a little long in the tooth and are not marketable, or too lazy, or they need to move back to their home countries for whatever reason then the excuses and crying start. " My home country is full of morons or whatever. Everything is too expensive. The food is processed, Everything I try to buy is made in China..etc. etc. etc."

Why don't you just look in the mirror and figured out how you F*cked up your life that you need to live in a third world country as cheaply as possible in order to survive.

Im sure you get little pity from people who worked 9 to 5 and built up a retirement or work to get ahead in a career. They don't take shortcuts and when they want to holiday or if they want to retire to Thailand or whatever, they have a nest egg, insurance, etc. and can live like a first-worlder.

[farang000999]

Real estate isn't the slam dunk it once was. Like equity markets, it's when everyone's bullish and even the bin man is talking about clubbing together with 3 mates to buy a studio flat to rent out that you know the game's up.

It's all about timing and a lot of people who are getting stupid income multiples to buy matchboxes in overinflated property markets are going to be absolutely obliterated when the shoe drops.

The conventional path to future financial security is obsolete, I'm afraid. Look at Spain, Greece . . .even the UK. People can't get jobs commensurate with their qualifications.

Your average working stiff can't save a bean; Even if he can, he's getting comedy returns from the banks/thrifts.

His/her pension scheme is likely one of those money purchase, targeted contribution abominations that rely on stock or bond market performance, his mortgage interest is low but his mortgage - and, by extension, his repayment - is huge; his grocery bill is increasing, his taxes are increasing, gas prices, energy prices, heating oil, insurance . . . Need I go on?

If, however, he could earn money by less conventional means and live somewhere really cheap like Thailand, he could save/invest and live well rather than busting his balls for 30+ years only to be diagnosed with a trick aorta or prostate cancer 6 months after retiring.

<deleted> that

No. The point is that many here are talking about cost of living and saying that you need 200,000 baht in the West to have the same life style as someone earning 25,000 baht in Thailand because housing is expensive. But this ignores that at some point the person with the expensive home can sell it and move to Thailand. So while it may have seemed like the person earning 200,000 and 25,000 were living similar life styles, the person earning 200,000 actually has created substantially more capital. The reason why this is so is because the cost of living is drastically tied with income prospects... which is why you will often hear that upon retirement so and so has sold his home in the city.

Edited September 1, 2014 by metisdead

[zierf1]

It never ceases to amaze me that people who make bad choices in life or try to figure out a shortcut to avoid education or career come to LOS to live Thai native existence. When they get a little long in the tooth and are not marketable, or too lazy, or they need to move back to their home countries for whatever reason then the excuses and crying start. " My home country is full of morons or whatever. Everything is too expensive. The food is processed, Everything I try to buy is made in China..etc. etc. etc."

Why don't you just look in the mirror and figured out how you F*cked up your life that you need to live in a third world country as cheaply as possible in order to survive.

Im sure you get little pity from people who worked 9 to 5 and built up a retirement or work to get ahead in a career. They don't take shortcuts and when they want to holiday or if they want to retire to Thailand or whatever, they have a nest egg, insurance, etc. and can live like a first-worlder.

And wait til I'm 60+ years old to start living? No thanks. I have watched my father work 60 hour work weeks in America. He was never able to take any vacations. Fine if you want that kind of life but not me.

FYI, I am educated and have my own small internet biz which provides me with a decent middle class income in Thailand. In America we get maybe 2-3 weeks vacation per year at our jobs if we're lucky. That is why you never see Americans traveling abroad. And if you do they are usually old because nobody else has enough time to live or travel abroad. I made the decision to sacrifice money for a life. If you don't like it, tough. I will live my life as I please thank you very much.

[NeverSure]

I've never been to the States but what seems really incredible to me is the price of cars over there. According to Chevrolet's website, a Camaro sports car retails for $24,000 - what's the catch? Is there huge sales tax or expensive servicing? That buys you a Honda City in Thailand lol.

It's the business model, you must buy thru a "Dealership',

They'll mark-up ~10 - 30%, and charge whatever the market will bare if the particular model is in demand and limited availability.

If you could order directly from the factory without middlemen prices would be very reasonable.

There is a federal law that the retail price all-in must be in the window of the car, placed there by the factory. I can always buy a car for less than retail and dealers expect to negotiate.

There is the window sticker price, and then there's the dealer's invoice price from the factory, and then there is what's called "dealer holdback" which is more profit, and then there are often factory rebates to the buyer. The last new Ford F150 4x4 pickup I bought new had a total of $5,000 in factory rebates before I started negotiating the dealer's markup below the sticker price.

Also the dealer makes more profit on each car based on selling more cars. That's a monthly thing. So a dealer can make money by selling me a car at cost. That means he will get more in his incentive check for every car he sells that month by selling me the one more car. He'll sell me a car at cost before he'll let me walk out the door.

So it was sticker minus rebates minus my getting the dealer to forgo the retail price and I bought the pickup for around 80% of suggested retail. There aren't always those rebates but I waited until there were.

There are too many darned dealers for any one to decide to play hardball.

Any price that aussiebebe saw advertised for a car was the real price, and he could still try to negotiate even if it's a sales price.

[JAFO]

There are some things that if retired you'd lose by moving to Thailand including Medicare health insurance which doesn't go away with age. There's no way of predicting what that will be worth.

If I had a couple of bucks saved up for retirement but relatively low income, I'd buy one of the houses linked above and rent out a private bedroom and private bath, use of washer and dryer and kitchen for $500 a month (easy,) use that to pay the utilities, taxes, insurance, internet etc. and live in the house for free. I'd sure never put a dime into a house in Thailand when I couldn't own the land.

I don't think it's cheaper to live in Thailand than in the US if you buy Western things. I think the US is the cheapest Western country to live in by a wide margin so it's probably a lot different for those from other countries.

^ You are absolutely on mark. It is not cheaper if you live in Thailand and you require all or a great portion of western creature comforts and want the stores lined with all those goodies. The US is a the largest consumer country in the world. Its what we do here. We buy and throw away, buy and throw away. We buy to just buy because typically people are bored or it makes them feel better. Some folks are pre-dispositoned to have to be buying something all the time to feel good about themselves which is probably masking a hidden issue or their lives are lacking elsewhere. Anyway this excessive consumerism is what keeps the economy alive. Its why China is the country it is because 90% of what is bought here is made in China. They grow because we're a disposable country and they are counting on it.. I watch people buy a X Box or Playstation or Apple Ipad tablets etc and in 6 months they buy a new one and toss the other out. I see people toss out consumer electronic goods every single day. That 48" TV you have is simply no longer good, you have to have the 60" with HD1080P, that 720P is junk (HAHA.) A great majority of people here have to buy new cars every 2 years. They lose their shirts but somehow it makes them feel better to roll into work with a new car to brag to their friends or show off to their neighbors so they think they are well off. Most new cars now are built to such high quality they will last for years. This is just the tip of the iceberg, people ought to see what Americans do with clothes and shoes. Pretty sad.

Some of us have made cognizant decisions that we are tired pissing money down the drain on the latest trinkets while we could be off doing something entirely different and personally rewarding. I require very little now and only buy what I need not this impulsive "want" and not having it available to me in Thailand makes it just that much easier. I sure appreciate things I buy more now. Honestly it took me nearly 5-7 years to ween myself of that consumerism sickness. Having the money made it even harder to pass it up.

On Edit @ Neversure. Who wants to live with roommates later in life to save money? I would prefer to live with my wife alone. Roommates are a liability. It was great back in my college days but.... To each his own.

Edited September 1, 2014 by JAFO

[sirineou]

Good to know because every now and then I get the insane thought of moving back myself.

OP, looks like you made a mistake, but you can correct it. Believe me, you're not the only one.

Mistake is right. I live around Americans now. What a bunch of ... well, can't post it here. These people are mildly annoying. If you like living around boring, LOUD, bible reading, fast food eating patriots who've never set food outside their own country, America is the place for you. Unfortunately, I'm not in those categories.

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

You are in Thailand, but you live around mildly annoying Americans, who are loud, bible reading, and ....

never set a foot outside their own country?

If they never set a foot outside their own country, How the Hell did they get to Thailand?

[JAFO]

I do have a question after reading all the responses;

Why is it that a great number of respondents state foreigners who have found a comfortable place to live and relax, enjoys his life style is considered to have coped out, made a mistake or is a loser because he moved to Thailand? Do people say the same about the people that retired to the Bahamas, South America, Mexico, Spain, Italy etc? I really do not get it. Guess its the product of web forums just always surprises me.

I happen to really like and enjoy Thailand. I could absolutely stay here in the US. I have a fantastic executive job right now in the US and the company has been after me to stay on but I would rather be back in Thailand doing what I enjoy more. Posts like "DanmarnJ Post #118 and some by Farang0099 have me wondering whats up.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

On Edit @ Neversure. Who wants to live with roommates later in life to save money? I would prefer to live with my wife alone. Roommates are a liability. It was great back in my college days but.... To each his own.

That was a last minute suggestion for someone who owned a house but couldn't really afford to live in it. Social Security payments are based on how much one earned in the last 20 years before retirement. A person with a modest Social Security check but a paid for house might find this an option.

A reverse mortgage would be another option. Both together would be options. There's always a way.