Is the crackdown on repeat visa runners already fizzling out?

[thecyclist]

Just a few weeks ago thaivisa.com and many other media outlets were full of reports of people being refused entry at different entry points for too many in-outs. At the Malaysian border they were even turning away people with valid Tourist visas(hundreds of them presumably). Then came the big announcement that the same would happen at the airports.

But it has grown awfully quiet recently. Is that because the crackdown was just a flash in the pan, or because visa runners , who are refused entry have better things to do than go on thaivisa.com and tell the public about their 'bad luck", or maybe there has been a mass exodus, and there are no more 'pseudo-tourists' left in the country??

[ukrules]

There's been a change of government since this was first announced, also the previous head of immigration who announced this 'crackdown' is no longer the head of immigration.

The previous guy in charge had his job changed just after the coup. I don't know why this happened but I'm pretty sure the order to do it came directly from the NCPO.

It looks like the new government has instructed immigration to end their crackdown. Common sense at last ? Maybe...

For a country that wants to attract more and more visitors, any kind of crackdown doesn't really make sense does it ?

If they take this to it's logical conclusion they should change the 3 month tourist visas to accomodate people who come to Thailand for a winter holiday so they can stay for the whole winter.

Don't they realise that a lot of people come to Thailand for a maximum of 60 days because that's what it says on the visa. If they issued 6 month long visas there would be a lot more tourists who come for up to the full 6 months.

There's no way in the world my mother would ever come here for more than 3 months because she would have to do a visa run and I know she wouldn't travel across the country, exit and then enter the country just for the sake of getting a stamp in her passport to stay for another month or two, she won't do it.

I wonder how many thousands of people cut their yearly winter holidays in Thailand short because they won't comply with the ridiculously short visas in a country well known as as place where people go for an extended winter holiday in the sun while it's cold back home.

It's ok for us younger ones to hop on a plane or 'run' across country to a nearby border but when you hit your late 60's and 70's the fact that this still applies is a bit much.

Edited September 2, 2014 by ukrules

[enuff said]

.

So winter lasts 6 months? Where? Siberia?

~

[Digitalnomade]

These immigration rules are totally retarded by the way. We live in a world where everything is connected like your pc, laptop,... And they expect to see us to come as a tourist with a Mickey mouse t shirt and a Canon camera around your neck.(stereotype of a tourist), but this world has changed a lot since 1977, still immigration rules are based on old rules fixed by old guys who don't understand anything.

I m a digital nomade and I make mega bucks on the Internet (sometimes when I m lucky) . There is no visa for digital nomade except the tourist visa.

Did immigration knows what internet is? When they continue to stamp entrance cards! So instead to modernise the system, they prefer to change their mind all the time. "no back to back visa run , but tomorrow It s ok..., but in 3 days we want people get visa...Bla bla"

See what I mean? , these people at immigration are totally clueless because they still live in an old system.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Digitalnomade

[SoiBiker]

I wonder how many thousands of people cut their yearly winter holidays in Thailand short because they won't comply with the ridiculously short visas in a country well known as as place where people go for an extended winter holiday in the sun while it's cold back home.

How many people get enough time off work that a 30 days is too short for their yearly holiday?

[JLCrab]

These immigration rules are totally retarded by the way. Novel observation.

[paz]

There's no way in the world my mother would ever come here for more than 3 months because she would have to do a visa run and I know she wouldn't travel across the country, exit and then enter the country just for the sake of getting a stamp in her passport to stay for another month or two, she won't do it.

O-A visa or extension of stay is not good enough ?

[ukrules]

I wonder how many thousands of people cut their yearly winter holidays in Thailand short because they won't comply with the ridiculously short visas in a country well known as as place where people go for an extended winter holiday in the sun while it's cold back home.

How many people get enough time off work that a 30 days is too short for their yearly holiday?

Tens if not hundreds of thousands of retired people who live in Europe, Scandinavia, parts of the US, Canada, etc - the places where it gets cold in winter.

Some people come every year and know the ropes with the visa situation, they travel around Asia to navigate the strange visa requirements of having to leave the country while you're on an extended holiday. You'd think they would try and encourage people to stay in Thailand for the duration of their trip.

This is a very significant group of people. They don't want retirement visas as they're not coming here to retire long term.

Like I said earlier there's no way my 70 year old mother is ever going to do a visa run. I expained the process to her before and she thinks it's stupid.

She's coming for a two month trip this winter, a little less than the 60 days she will get when she arrives with her tourist visa.

The visa regulations are as clear as mud to a casual tourist who doesn't really know anything about Thailand - she thought she'd have to get the visa just before she flew out here because it only lasts for a certain number of days before it becomes invalid.

I explained to her that she could enter on the very last day of the tourist visas validity and get a 60 day entrance stamp and still extend it for another 30 days even though the original visa would have long since expired by then but she didn't like the sound of that - she thought it was kind of like cheating and she likes to keep everything above board : no shortcuts, no cheating, no risk. She always abides by the rules and will err on the side of caution.

A seasonal visa would keep it easy and make sense.

[ukrules]

There's no way in the world my mother would ever come here for more than 3 months because she would have to do a visa run and I know she wouldn't travel across the country, exit and then enter the country just for the sake of getting a stamp in her passport to stay for another month or two, she won't do it.

O-A visa or extension of stay is not good enough ?

I don't believe it is good enough - it's hoops for people to jump through and people don't like to jump through hoops, especially for a 4 or 5 month stay. It's easier to just stay for less time, no problem.

This is a reason I never go to China any more - too much hassle. No visa on arrival / visa examption = no arrival, I don't go there. I like to keep it simple even if the country doesn't. Of course they have no idea that I would have travelled there if it wasn't for their bullshit visa requirements, obviously they either don't know or don't care, which is no problem for me. I'll accept there's a lot of tit for tat diplomacy by our supposed 'leaders' regarding visa requirements which only adds additional layers of bullshit to the already antiquated system.

Keep it simple and maybe I'll go - even if it's simple maybe I won't bother - it's a buyers market and countries aren't striving to make it easy for the consumer (tourist) and in some cases they're making it harder to visit.

[SoiBiker]

I wonder how many thousands of people cut their yearly winter holidays in Thailand short because they won't comply with the ridiculously short visas in a country well known as as place where people go for an extended winter holiday in the sun while it's cold back home.

How many people get enough time off work that a 30 days is too short for their yearly holiday?

Tens if not hundreds of thousands of retired people who live in Europe, Scandinavia, parts of the US, Canada, etc - the places where it gets cold in winter.

Some people come every year and know the ropes with the visa situation, they travel around Asia to navigate the strange visa requirements of having to leave the country while you're on an extended holiday. You'd think they would try and encourage people to stay in Thailand for the duration of their trip.

This is a very significant group of people. They don't want retirement visas as they're not coming here to retire long term.

Like I said earlier there's no way my 70 year old mother is ever going to do a visa run. I expained the process to her before and she thinks it's stupid.

She's coming for a two month trip this winter, a little less than the 60 days she will get when she arrives with her tourist visa.

The visa regulations are as clear as mud to a casual tourist who doesn't really know anything about Thailand - she thought she'd have to get the visa just before she flew out here because it only lasts for a certain number of days before it becomes invalid.

I explained to her that she could enter on the very last day of the tourist visas validity and get a 60 day entrance stamp and still extend it for another 30 days even though the original visa would have long since expired by then but she didn't like the sound of that - she thought it was kind of like cheating and she likes to keep everything above board : no shortcuts, no cheating, no risk. She always abides by the rules and will err on the side of caution.

A seasonal visa would keep it easy and make sense.

How many 'casual tourists' take two month holidays?

So this is just about your mum. You should have said so.

[ukrules]

How many 'casual tourists' take two month holidays?

So this is just about your mum. You should have said so.

Of course it's not just about my mum, there's 100's of thousands of people in the same situation as her - use a little imagination will you.

I've been in Hua Hin for a few years now and I've noticed lots of the same people return every year for the winter. Some people come and stay in the houses nearby as neighbours every year for months at a time.

There's a lot of retired people who come for the winter to escape the cold - and I mean a lot of them - it's what makes the high season start in November and last until February / March.

If you can't see past your own situation then that's unfortunate, unfortunate for you.

The thing about my mother is - she's sitting in a house in England which she purchased decades ago, she could sell it in a heartbeat and retire anywhere in the world if she so desired, Thailand should be doing everything they can to entice people like her to come to Thailand and retire long term. The first step of this process is to introduce them to the country in a friendly manner - not - 'you come for 90 days maximum' - then you must leave !

It reminds me of the retired NYPD police officer who was thinking of retiring to Thailand - he posted on this forum about his experiences a few months ago doing his first ever out/in on a Tourist visa so he could stay for more than 90 days before he made the big life changing decision to move half way around the world. This was his first time in Thailand. He was vindictively interrogated by immigration on his return - after this experience he said there's no way he will ever retire here.

Edited September 2, 2014 by ukrules

[SoiBiker]

There are hundreds of thousands of people coming to Thailand for two month holidays?

Really?

[paz]

I don't think that these people wintering in your area have much of a problem with the visa system except maybe the occasional wrong stamp or additional photocopy.

All what Thailand wants for one to stay long time virtually unmolested is

1. be over 50 and

2. be able to show some money.

The first requirement is somewhat arbitrary but seems like people younger than 50 doesn't have much of a problem adapting anyway.

The second is a reasonable requirement.

Then all in all, the demand is high, the visa and extension system generate revenues for consulates and immigration so I don't think they will do away with it.

[SoiBiker]

Anyway no offence to your mum - I'm sure she's lovely - but why should Thailand bend over backwards to entice her to move here?

Some people seem to think the Thais should greet us like visiting dignitaries just for being born in the west and having a few quid in the bank.

[ukrules]

There are hundreds of thousands of people coming to Thailand for two month holidays?

Really?

No, but there are hundreds of thousands of people in cold winter locations around the world who are in a position to come for an extended stay each winter.

The point I'm making is : Thailand should be doing all it can to encourage these people to come for the winter by making it easy to do so. They could do a lot more.

If you don't understand this point by now then you never will so give up.

[SoiBiker]

The point I'm making is : Thailand should be doing all it can to encourage these people to come for the winter by making it easy to do so.

Why?

[mokwit]

.

So winter lasts 6 months? Where? Siberia?

~

United Kingdom (actually 10 months)

[ubonjoe]

The "crackdown" has not fizzled out. It was just overplayed when it first started. There are rules in place to limit in/out visa runners going for visa exempt entries. Part of the problem was that people mixed up visa exempt entries and tourist visas (and still do).

[ukrules]

The point I'm making is : Thailand should be doing all it can to encourage these people to come for the winter by making it easy to do so.

Why?

Beacuse that's the job of the tourist industry and it starts with the government. The Tourist Authority of Thailand (TAT) - read more if you're really interrested : http://www.tourismthailand.org/

It's their job to do exactly what I describe above - they strive to bring more people into Thailand every year and they want them to stay for as long as possible while on their vacations.

[ubonjoe]

It is time to get back on topic and stop the bickering. Topic is about visa runners not those coming here for long holidays.

[ukrules]

The "crackdown" not fizzled out. It was just overplayed when it first started. There are rules in place to limit in/out visa runners going for visa exempt entries. Part of the problem was that people mixed up visa exempt entries and tourist visas (and still do).

Lets not forget that the Immigration Chief who spearheaded this campaign just days before the coup is no longer in the job and the rules look like they're now being relaxed a bit.

Why is that I wonder ?

[SoiBiker]

The job of the tourist industry is to encourage people to retire here?

Some people just want the rules to bend to whatever fits them personally. It doesn't work that way.

[ubonjoe]

The "crackdown" not fizzled out. It was just overplayed when it first started. There are rules in place to limit in/out visa runners going for visa exempt entries. Part of the problem was that people mixed up visa exempt entries and tourist visas (and still do).

Lets not forget that the Immigration Chief who spearheaded this campaign just days before the coup is no longer in the job and the rules look like they're now being relaxed a bit.

Why is that I wonder ?

It started out with some border crossings going overboard with it by turning almost everybody back.

The guidelines for visa exempt entries are dated June 26th. Well after the coup.

It is now just targeting those that it was meant for in the first place. That is those trying to stay here by getting back to back visa exempt entries.

[LivinLOS]

Anyway no offence to your mum - I'm sure she's lovely - but why should Thailand bend over backwards to entice her to move here?

Some people seem to think the Thais should greet us like visiting dignitaries just for being born in the west and having a few quid in the bank.

How many billions does the TAT spend on advertizing ?? And thats getting people staying for days..

Surely similar effort to get people to spend months would make sense ??

Look at Malaysias MM2H program and the red carpet it rolls out..

[simon43]

I m a digital nomade and I make mega bucks on the Internet (sometimes when I m lucky) . There is no visa for digital nomade except the tourist visa.

Thai Elite visa still too much for your megabucks???

[wilcopops]

There's been a change of government since this was first announced, also the previous head of immigration who announced this 'crackdown' is no longer the head of immigration.

The previous guy in charge had his job changed just after the coup. I don't know why this happened but I'm pretty sure the order to do it came directly from the NCPO.

It looks like the new government has instructed immigration to end their crackdown. Common sense at last ? Maybe...

For a country that wants to attract more and more visitors, any kind of crackdown doesn't really make sense does it ?

If they take this to it's logical conclusion they should change the 3 month tourist visas to accomodate people who come to Thailand for a winter holiday so they can stay for the whole winter.

Don't they realise that a lot of people come to Thailand for a maximum of 60 days because that's what it says on the visa. If they issued 6 month long visas there would be a lot more tourists who come for up to the full 6 months.

There's no way in the world my mother would ever come here for more than 3 months because she would have to do a visa run and I know she wouldn't travel across the country, exit and then enter the country just for the sake of getting a stamp in her passport to stay for another month or two, she won't do it.

I wonder how many thousands of people cut their yearly winter holidays in Thailand short because they won't comply with the ridiculously short visas in a country well known as as place where people go for an extended winter holiday in the sun while it's cold back home.

It's ok for us younger ones to hop on a plane or 'run' across country to a nearby border but when you hit your late 60's and 70's the fact that this still applies is a bit much.

OK - I have the impression this "clampdown" was initiated AFTER the coup.

Can someone clear this up?

[wilcopops]

One of my main concerns about this governments new enforcement of regulations, has been that they are carried out without any prior research or consultation.

So one conclusion about "visa-runners" might be that in reality there weren't any.....or at least only a negligible amount.

It appears that those holding tourist visas are outside immigrations remit.......so how many people ACTUALLY do a MONTHLY visa run? .Looks like hardly any.

[wayned]

The "crackdown" has not fizzled out. It was just overplayed when it first started. There are rules in place to limit in/out visa runners going for visa exempt entries. Part of the problem was that people mixed up visa exempt entries and tourist visas (and still do).

So when is the crackdown on tourist visas going to take place? All that the crackdown has done is drive those that were abusing the visa exempt system to work here illegally to join those that are already abusing the tourist visa system to stay here up to 270 days and are working illegally.

IMHO, until they either crackdown on the people that are working illegally and their employers OR change work permit regulations to make it easier to work here legally, people will find a way around the immigration regulations.

[Suradit69]

The "crackdown" not fizzled out. It was just overplayed when it first started. There are rules in place to limit in/out visa runners going for visa exempt entries. Part of the problem was that people mixed up visa exempt entries and tourist visas (and still do).

Lets not forget that the Immigration Chief who spearheaded this campaign just days before the coup is no longer in the job and the rules look like they're now being relaxed a bit.

Why is that I wonder ?

"I wonder how many thousands of people cut their yearly winter holidays in Thailand short ..."

So you're saying that the visas allow such short holidays that thousands of tourists have decided to cut their winter holidays even shorter and head back to the frigid north in reprisal even though they knew the terms of the visas before coming to Thailand in the first place. Ah logic, such a relative thing.

"Why is that I wonder ?"

Lots of purely self-serving speculative wondering going on.

Since tourist visas easily allow for as much as 180 to 270 days in Thailand, unless these tourists are from the antarctic, that should see them through the worst of winter. And those big spenders who have months and months to stay in Thailand each winter are most likely retired or at least over 50 and able to get year-long O-A visas extendable to two years for retirement purposes or annual extensions of stay that can be renewed indefinitely with little bother, even if they only want to stay in Thailand for 3 to 6 to 9 months each year. Possibly these vitally important tourists can't afford the minimum financial requirements and Thailand must cope with the loss of these economy class refugees?

Ah, UKrules, I wonder how many people wile away their days predicting the demise of Thai tourism and the Thai economy while their own home country struggles to recover from dire economic straits, banking scandals, deteriorating infrastructure and unemployment and is unable to provide remotely adequate services to their citizens resident in Thailand via their embassy?

Better to ignore one's own problems and concentrate on drawing attention to the imaginary problems of others??

"Why is that I wonder ?"

Edited September 3, 2014 by Suradit69

[jacksam]

The so called crackdown was in the main directed at people obtaining stamp month after month. I did this for couple of years with couple of tourist visas thrown in. Lot of people talk about how long you need to stay out of Thailand. One or 3 or 5, whatever.

I think its more they want people to obtain correct visa and not abuse stamp.

I now get a non imm o and then extension based on retirement.

I think they are also concerned about people working without work permit. Teachers in particular have drawn attention.

I wonder how widespread this is