Scottish independence: Yes camp hails 'momentum'

[sustento]

You don't see how ridiculous your replly is?

There is no political group called "Scotland".... No decision on EU membership can be made by an independent Scotland until we have a mandate to debate this issue.

Ridiculous?

http://scotreferendum.com/questions/how-will-scotland-become-an-independent-member-of-the-european-union/

Just whose version of the truth are we expected to believe?

Edited September 16, 2014 by sustento

[NeverSure]

Sorry. I should have said "sonny."

Countries using the US dollar exclusively

British Virgin Islands.

Caribbean Netherlands (from 1 January 2011)

East Timor (uses its own coins)

Ecuador (uses its own coins in addition to U.S. coins; Ecuador adopted the US dollar as its legal tender in 2000.) ...

El Salvador.

Marshall Islands.

LINK

Countries where the USD is either the official currency, or it can be used and interchanged with the countries' currencies.

British Virgin Islands

Ecuador

Panama

Bahamas

Turks and Caicos

Vietnam

Cambodia

Nicaragua

Belize

LINK

They are all countries either in South America or who have connections with the US dollar. The finances and industry of Scotland and the rest of the UK are much more intertwined. Simplistic answers don't solve complex problems.

It's not a complex problem if Scotland truly becomes independent. You're just trying to make it complex.

Scotland, like many other countries, can simply print its own money and offer to buy it back 1:1 for another major currency. It could be the pound or the euro. No other country or union has a say in that.

The only reason I said USD is the same reason that many other countries do that. The USD is officially the international unit of trade i.e. the "petrodollar." Every country holds a certain amount of USD because sometimes that's the only currency that will be accepted for some commodities by some countries.

So, since a country has to hold a lot of USD anyway to fully engage in international trade, it makes sense for most of them to tie to the USD if they need to tie to a major currency.

The clear fact still stands that if there is a "yes" vote, Scotland will have no problem having a currency.

[sustento]

Sorry. I should have said "sonny."

Countries using the US dollar exclusively

British Virgin Islands.

Caribbean Netherlands (from 1 January 2011)

East Timor (uses its own coins)

Ecuador (uses its own coins in addition to U.S. coins; Ecuador adopted the US dollar as its legal tender in 2000.) ...

El Salvador.

Marshall Islands.

LINK

Countries where the USD is either the official currency, or it can be used and interchanged with the countries' currencies.

British Virgin Islands

Ecuador

Panama

Bahamas

Turks and Caicos

Vietnam

Cambodia

Nicaragua

Belize

LINK

They are all countries either in South America or who have connections with the US dollar. The finances and industry of Scotland and the rest of the UK are much more intertwined. Simplistic answers don't solve complex problems.

It's not a complex problem if Scotland truly becomes independent. You're just trying to make it complex.

If Scotland wants to become truly independent financially it first has to discharge its obligations to the rest of the UK. It can't just run away from its obligations without losing all credibility in international markets. If it adopts a currency other that sterling it has to deal with the varying exchange rate of that currency compared to sterling as all its obligations to the rest of the UK are delineated in sterling.

If rUK refuses to enter into a currency union then Scotland will have to adopt a non sterling currency and be at the mercy of exchange rates.

[NeverSure]

They are all countries either in South America or who have connections with the US dollar. The finances and industry of Scotland and the rest of the UK are much more intertwined. Simplistic answers don't solve complex problems.

It's not a complex problem if Scotland truly becomes independent. You're just trying to make it complex.

If Scotland wants to become truly independent financially it first has to discharge its obligations to the rest of the UK. It can't just run away from its obligations without losing all credibility in international markets. If it adopts a currency other that sterling it has to deal with the varying exchange rate of that currency compared to sterling as all its obligations to the rest of the UK are delineated in sterling.

If rUK refuses to enter into a currency union then Scotland will have to adopt a non sterling currency and be at the mercy of exchange rates.

I just tried to explain to you why your statement "They are all countries either in South America or who have connections with the US dollar" is incorrect. The real reason is that they have to hold a lot of USD anyway.

For the same reason, you are again mistaken. The "obligations to the rest of the UK" are largely denominated in USD because a good part of it is international debt. Many of them can't be paid with pounds or euros, but any of them can be paid with dollars.

Also, there is no more proven risk in exchange rate futures with the USD than there is with the pound or euro. That's a crap shoot.

Now I'm finished with this because I'm spinning my wheels with you. You started out with literally using the laughing icon at me, when you don't know what the hell you're talking about. I've done my best to explain it to you. Over and out.

[nontabury]

I don't know why the English are bleating. When the referendum was being thrashed out, Salmond was quite happy to go with Devo Max. It was Cameron who decided to impose the "all or nothing" format. Everything that is happening now is of his own making. Som nam na, and all that. As is normal though, the English have got to find a scapegoat for their woes .... if it's not the French and Germans, it's the Romanians. If it's not the Arabs, it's the Pakkies. If it's not the Irish, it's the Scots. If it's not the Spaniards, it's the Greeks. If it's not the Argentinians, it's the Uruguayans ...

Thank you for your insightful posting. Does this matter have much if anything at all to do you?

Of course it does ...

Well how about posting something other than a lot of insulting and racist drivel !

Throughout this thread the nationalist have on many occasion resulted to insults when they cannot provide an answer to support their case, similar to the stance taken by many Nationalist in Scotland who have intimidated and insulted their opponents. That IS nationalism!.

[nontabury]

Oh and none of you chose to comment on my clip showing Mark Carney stating the Bank of England will back the Scottish pound.

It was a very short clip. Do you have a link to one that lasts a little longer so we can listen in context?

.....I gave you the link.....some people are just never going to be happy.

Anyway....we are voting YES on Thursday so you can hear the currency agreement sometime after that.....probably after Cameron/Osborne lose a vote of confidence at Westminster.

And what happens to Salmond the man that split the people of Scotland down the middle? surely you Scots are not going to worship him for doing that?

They will in the short time, later the'll probably want to lynch him after the chickens come home to roost.

[nontabury]

We're voting for independence now....I think still it will be close....but I reckon YES will swing it on Thursday.

That makes both sides YES and NO thinking the same,have a look at the odds given by the Bookies,they usually get the big forecast correct! and it's more than a 1 or 2 % margin!

look at the no Facebook page poll....that is interesting.....

By my Judgement! either Cameron or Salmond,once the Postmortems are over will get their marching orders, Politics being such a dirty business, there will probably be mumblings or gatherings of men in grey suits already!

Let's hope Cameron goes, what ever the outcome.

[nontabury]

Of course it's about oil, do you think there would be this push for separation without the discovery of North Sea oil. As for it being exhausted, it's not only Westminster that is saying this, also Scotsman Ian Wood( see post 1253 ) who should know more about this subject than the politicians and their puppets, be they in London or Edinburgh. Then include the figures for the loss of the Edinburgh financial sector as explained by another Scottish economist in an earlier post.

But please do go ahead with your "YES" vote hopefully to be followed by a big Edinburgh party, it will provide some comic relief for the English before they prepare for the influx of jobs from north of the boarder.

Talking about jobs,on the BBC a SNP MP was on the Referendom News this morning,whinging about 40,000 Younsters a year are forced to leave Scotland to seek Jobs,you can bet your last English £Pound,39,000 of the Jobseekers will be heading for England! Just goes to show how out of touch and insular the SNP is.

Scottish waters hold 2/3rds of European oil already and some new discoveries are huge. As for Scots leaving to work it has been going on for generations - look all over the world for their influence.

Can I refer you to post 1253 regarding an interview with Scotsman IAN WOOd one of the most knowledgable figures in the North Sea oil industry, he does't seem to think there is much of a future in North Sea oil,In spite of his earlier figures being twisted by the Nationalist propaganda machine.

The Wood Group are an oilfield services company, not an oil company. Oil and gas reserve estimation is the remit of earth scientists such a geologists and geophysicists and not the people that provide the boats for them do conduct their reservoir studies.

Sir Ian Wood is just doing his bit for the benefit of those who gave him his gong. His family made their billions by selling their shares in Wood Group ages ago.

Notably, unlike the 'Scottish' banks, he has said absolutely nothing about moving the Wood Group global head office from Aberdeen in the result of a Yes vote.

I said that Scotsman IAN Wood is one of the most knowledgable figures in the industry, yet you ignore that fact,same as most Nationalist fanatics ignore most of the unbiased facts relating to this issue, because it contradicts their closed minds.

[BestBitterPhuket]

I don't see how it could be bad for Scotland if they get to take the North Sea oil with them. They could be the next Norway. However, Scottish independence would consign the UK to the clutches of the Tories forever. Hard luck for the Brits in that case.

So you long for those "glorious" years under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. Hahaha! Oh brother.

Scotland will not be the new Norway. Have they been feeding the voters with such lies?

[nontabury]

You don't see how ridiculous your replly is?

There is no political group called "Scotland".... No decision on EU membership can be made by an independent Scotland until we have a mandate to debate this issue.

Ridiculous?

http://scotreferendum.com/questions/how-will-scotland-become-an-independent-member-of-the-european-union/

Just whose version of the truth are we expected to believe?

The version that is compatible with their blinkered views at that moment in time.

[NanLaew]

...

I said that Scotsman IAN Wood is one of the most knowledgable figures in the industry, yet you ignore that fact,same as most Nationalist fanatics ignore most of the unbiased facts relating to this issue, because it contradicts their closed minds.

I know what you said. But the fact remains that Sir Ian Wood knows absolutely NOTHING about oil reserves.

Neither does Westminster.

Neither does Holyrood.

And neither do I although I have worked in the oil and gas exploration industry as an explorer for over 35 years. Determination of reserves is literally a black art and someone who supplies boats and services for the upstream oil and gas industry does not do the black arts.

Now, are you going to call me an insulting ultra-nationalist because on this point I do know what I am talking about?

[wilcopops]

Some people seem to think this is a confrontational contest.....like a football match .....well it isn't, it isn't even about economics and all those who prophesy finical doom, have actually missed the point, in the end it isn't about the pound, the EU or the price of heavy, it's about WHO runs the country and from WHERE - it is SELF DETERMINATION..........

a herd of cattle can be well-fed and content but they are still cattle.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/16/scotland-scottish-indpendence-referendum-federal-uk-england-wales

[soihok]

Sorry. I should have said "sonny."

Countries using the US dollar exclusively

British Virgin Islands.

Caribbean Netherlands (from 1 January 2011)

East Timor (uses its own coins)

Ecuador (uses its own coins in addition to U.S. coins; Ecuador adopted the US dollar as its legal tender in 2000.) ...

El Salvador.

Marshall Islands.

LINK

Countries where the USD is either the official currency, or it can be used and interchanged with the countries' currencies.

British Virgin Islands

Ecuador

Panama

Bahamas

Turks and Caicos

Vietnam

Cambodia

Nicaragua

Belize

LINK

Until now I wasn't aware that Ecuador had adopted the US Dollar. I visited the country in 95, pockets bursting with notes of Sucre that amounted to very little monetary value for the size of the wad of cash.

Oh well, so long the Sucre.

[Mosha]

Bookies are paying out on a no vote

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/scots-independence/60436/scottish-independence-odds-bookmakers-ignore-close-polls

[wilcopops]

Salmond said he will default on Scotlands debts.

He Inspires confidence and acts as an inspiration to bankrupts and debtors alike.

What a fantasist and deluded fool.

Takes one to know one?

[inutil]

Its been a bad couple of days for the YES camp to be honest. Theyve been getting hit hard on economics. I dont know why these punches are suddenly landing (i mean, lets face it, theres a case to be met, but Salmonds been quiet deft at (not)answering them). Hes looking incredibly tired as well. Brown has been savaging him on the NHS and also slightly taking the piss out of Salmonds call to get your granny to vote yes. Further, the devo max thing has reared its ugly head. Its not that people believe it'll happen. They clearly dont. But youre talking a few thousand votes to swing either way for an historic upset or just enough of a buffer to get through the finish line. Every vote matters. And devo max is something positive at the end of the day for the Scottish people DESPITE the problems it is clearly going to face should a no vote happen.

Finally, the no campaign are really making the intimidation claims stick hard. Monday they had devo max and the economy. Tuesday they went after the "NHS is safe in the SNPs hands" and voter intimidation (not helped by even Ed Milliband being heckled). And all of these punches are landing.

Salmond is looking exhausted. He's been objectively brilliant theres no doubt about it. Hes weathered not only the entire forces of the british political establishment and the media. But hes also managed to create a vision out of total unknowns (not his fault, and i defend him avowedly on this point - he cant offer a stable platform when Westminster is unlikely to offer him anything at all to discuss - they cant even promise their own platform of devomax for heaven sake, how could they promise negotiations on a shared currency?) and defended it furiously. Hes been a hero of this campaign and ignited a political consciousness in the apparently apathetic and selfish youth who were supposed to be stuck in their iphones. The effects will be there for a generation and you may even see a new labour vision emerge from its ashes. There are clear reasons to be hopeful. Such a pity though that its someone like Milliband to carry the fight :/ Ah well, i did say it was generational

Still hopeful of a yes vote, i should say. They might have been bouyed by the polls bringing things back to a 2% swing (from the 4% on Saturday/Sunday and well within the margin of error). But its a more sedate hope now, personally speaking. Salmonds out of the race i think. So its up to the force of will of the Scottish people to carry this over the finish line now.

Edited September 17, 2014 by inutil

[nontabury]

...

I said that Scotsman IAN Wood is one of the most knowledgable figures in the industry, yet you ignore that fact,same as most Nationalist fanatics ignore most of the unbiased facts relating to this issue, because it contradicts their closed minds.

I know what you said. But the fact remains that Sir Ian Wood knows absolutely NOTHING about oil reserves.

Neither does Westminster.

Neither does Holyrood.

And neither do I although I have worked in the oil and gas exploration industry as an explorer for over 35 years. Determination of reserves is literally a black art and someone who supplies boats and services for the upstream oil and gas industry does not do the black arts.

Now, are you going to call me an insulting ultra-nationalist because on this point I do know what I am talking about?

You say that Scotsman IAN WOOD knows nothing about oil reserves, yet you do. Again most if not all the experts in this field contradict your view, and I am not talking about the experts in Westminster or Holyrood, but you want to take a gamble on your opinion,up to you, GOOD LUCK.

[nontabury]

Some people seem to think this is a confrontational contest.....like a football match .....well it isn't, it isn't even about economics and all those who prophesy finical doom, have actually missed the point, in the end it isn't about the pound, the EU or the price of heavy, it's about WHO runs the country and from WHERE - it is SELF DETERMINATION..........

a herd of cattle can be well-fed and content but they are still cattle.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/16/scotland-scottish-indpendence-referendum-federal-uk-england-wales

Why din't the herd of cattle push hard for separation before the discovery of North Sea oil?

[nontabury]

Bookies are paying out on a no vote

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/scots-independence/60436/scottish-independence-odds-bookmakers-ignore-close-polls

Well because the bookies are themselves gamblers.What the Scots are being asked to do is to bet their livelihoods and more importantly that of their children and grandchildren on the hopes and guessing of the SNP, personally I would rather take a certainty on the winner of the Grand National from Andy Capp.

[wilcopops]

Bookies are paying out on a no vote

http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/scots-independence/60436/scottish-independence-odds-bookmakers-ignore-close-polls

Well because the bookies are themselves gamblers.What the Scots are being asked to do is to bet their livelihoods and more importantly that of their children and grandchildren on the hopes and guessing of the SNP, personally I would rather take a certainty on the winner of the Grand National from Andy Capp.

Bookies aren't gamblers...they're BOOKIES ...anyone who follows the horses knows that.

[jpinx]

We're voting for independence now....I think still it will be close....but I reckon YES will swing it on Thursday.

That makes both sides YES and NO thinking the same,have a look at the odds given by the Bookies,they usually get the big forecast correct! and it's more than a 1 or 2 % margin!

look at the no Facebook page poll....that is interesting.....

Not everyone has fakebook -- can you at least post a screenshot for us lesser mortals ?

[jpinx]

If Scotland wants to become truly independent financially it first has to discharge its obligations to the rest of the UK. It can't just run away from its obligations without losing all credibility in international markets. If it adopts a currency other that sterling it has to deal with the varying exchange rate of that currency compared to sterling as all its obligations to the rest of the UK are delineated in sterling.

Sorry. I should have said "sonny."

Countries using the US dollar exclusively

British Virgin Islands.

Caribbean Netherlands (from 1 January 2011)

East Timor (uses its own coins)

Ecuador (uses its own coins in addition to U.S. coins; Ecuador adopted the US dollar as its legal tender in 2000.) ...

El Salvador.

Marshall Islands.

LINK

Countries where the USD is either the official currency, or it can be used and interchanged with the countries' currencies.

British Virgin Islands

Ecuador

Panama

Bahamas

Turks and Caicos

Vietnam

Cambodia

Nicaragua

Belize

LINK

They are all countries either in South America or who have connections with the US dollar. The finances and industry of Scotland and the rest of the UK are much more intertwined. Simplistic answers don't solve complex problems.

It's not a complex problem if Scotland truly becomes independent. You're just trying to make it complex.

If rUK refuses to enter into a currency union then Scotland will have to adopt a non sterling currency and be at the mercy of exchange rates.

===============================>>

I think you have your shoes on the wrong feet If rUK wants Scotland to share the national debt, then it is in rUk's interests to make sure that Scotland has full access to sterling - at least for a while

[inutil]

We're voting for independence now....I think still it will be close....but I reckon YES will swing it on Thursday.

That makes both sides YES and NO thinking the same,have a look at the odds given by the Bookies,they usually get the big forecast correct! and it's more than a 1 or 2 % margin!

look at the no Facebook page poll....that is interesting.....

Not everyone has fakebook -- can you at least post a screenshot for us lesser mortals ?

Again, it wouldnt reflect much anyone didnt already know:

Over 50s are predominantly no leaning

Under 50s are predominantly yes leaning.

Social media is certainly still the majority preserve of the under 50s. There was a report (well, as reporty as it gets for social media), that overwhelming tweets about #indyref were pro independence. No surprise there. Its been brilliant seeing people you never expected tap into all of this to be part of the conversation. But its an echo chamber to some degree and one must always keep that in mind, particularly when the main targets in these last moments are pensioners and tapping into their concerns. As i mentioned, Gordon Browns jab at the call from Salmond to pop round your grannies and tell them about the yes vote simply reflects this (he told the pensioners to tell the young about the wars instead and educate them about the shared perils we overcame). Its not meant to be taken toooooo seriously. Its a jab at the cynical nature of Salmonds own ridiculous point. But they are retaining their support in those groups. The only other main target for possible affiliation switch (the West coast labour - ie. socialist labour), are also being hit with an NHS leaked document and of course the devo max 'vow'.

So YES is in trouble. Itl take a strong showing on the final day to turn this back around. Its not impossible by any means. All they need to do is convince the Scottish people that its worth the punt. If i can flip-flop on my voting allegiance despite being convinced every other day, then im not alone. And i dont think im part of that 7%. Im part of the rest of the ABSOLUTELY SURE voters completely certain of how im going to vote, until im not. Im still voting yes right now (well, would be), but its a less certain yes than it was just 48 hours ago. Mad stuff to start paying out already to be honest. It just takes one solid hit to land and the YES vote carries the momentum into polling day. I still remember the sunshine feeling in 1997 when we all went in to cast our votes. Its all it takes. And to be honest, the "once in a lifetime chance to affect real change for your children and your grandchildren" is going to be a strong emotional appeal. The no camp have only got more negativity and worry that scotland is going down the crapper. And if they play that one a bit heavy, theyre at risk of losing labour support (labour wants a positive vision). Only the YES campaign can offer the bright sunshine in this regard. And again, if it takes seed, there could be wobbles on polling day.

Edited September 17, 2014 by inutil

[mommysboy]

Seems to be a fair few misconceptions:

Carney as head of BoE has ruled out a currency union under guidance from UK Govt. and does not personally back one anyway. BoE does back the Scottish pound up to any point of independence. Over 60% of UK's polled are against Scotland using the pound in this way too. There is nothing to stop Scotland using the pound or any other currency, but it would be very limiting for a major economy to operate so called sterlingisation as it would be hostage to UK financial levers.

Scotland will be out of the EU, and will have to reapply, a process which will take 5 years. Entry must be agreed by all members and Spain has indicated it will veto. Entry will be on condition of accepting the Euro and there will be none of the exemptions that UK currently enjoy.

North sea oil (Scotch, fishing) ,although significant, is not the major driver in either the UK or Scottish economy, and is dwindling, the production figures say everything.

[icare999]

If there is a Yes then it would be in the interests of the rest of the Uk to strike the best possible deal for the remaining three parts of the Kingdom. Expect a big bill on the way out and no mercy in the separation negotiations after all the Westminster parliament holds all the cards and it is an acrimonius divorce.. That said good luck if it is a yes !

Westminster holds all of the debt and virtually none of the oil. Maybe we will show you some mercy.

please please please vote yes as an english man although expat since last labour government in 70's brought UK to its knees before being saved by Thatcher.

For my children still in UK sake and my grandchildren I'm fed up with Scotland and Wales forcing a socialist government on england. So please go your own way double please and no more winging or scourging of english and i do wish you well but dont want you at all and i love scotland. I have a daughter who lives there and grandchildren who live there but time england had rights.

So whatever outcome let England be free of socialists and their stupid ideas. At verity least give england its own devolved parliament and let england have devolved max as they say.

If scotland votes no we deserve the right to be rood of scotland and for that matter Wales and Northern Ireland.

[mommysboy]

Under the Barnett rule, Scotland recieves 1500 quid per year per head more in spending than England. NI receives 2000 more, Wales about 700. The UK has said this will continue . But if Scotland leaves then obviously it is no longer eligible.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 1 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[icare999]

Under the Barnett rule, Scotland recieves 1500 quid per year per head more in spending than England. NI receives 2000 more, Wales about 700. The UK has said this will continue . But if Scotland leaves then obviously it is no longer eligible.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 1 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

another reason i say please vote yes scotland please please pretty please

if scotland votes yes for me it will be even if GBP falls even if its economically bad for england because I as an englishman want england to be independent of its hangers on scotland Wales and NI and be allowed to choose itself what government it wants not one imposed from scotland and wales and their socialist MP's

[inutil]

Who do you think youre convincing though? Lets assume youre right. Lets assume that scottish oil has only 40 years left. Lets assume that the BoE gets to control the financial levers as the borrower of last resort. And lets assume that the EU application takes 5 years (and spain threaten to veto it purely on the grounds that its trying to prevent its own independence movement taking off).

Do you think that your typical scottish person is voting yes because they want their own scrooge mcduck money pit? This isnt a vote for a windfall. Its a vote fully aware that the break up of the union comes with some terrifying consequences to an independent scottish economy. And why do they know this? Because better together have been banging this drum since day 1. And look how well its turning out for them? It took the intervention of Gordon Brown and the prospect of federalism to halt what was becoming an unstoppable momentum taking root in the alleged SUPPORTERS of the better together movement. They have been completely turned off at the whole scale doom mongering. Every person out there knows already that this vote has consequences. And they arent short term positive ones. But the ship will be brought back on track in the medium to long term and thereafter we'll have not only a similar (if not, better) economy, but will also be able to make our own decisions on our own policy and programmes. We will be independent.

Im trying hard not to slip into evangelism here, but how many nations fail following independence, how many of them return (mondays YES talking point), and how likely, HONESTLY, is it that an oil rich nation with its own side industries and global exports that has the infrastructure, education, and business acumen of one of the most important first world economies in the world are suddenly going to flush it down the pan for the sake of some kind of brazen FREEEDUM!!! ideology? Im going to hazard a guess and say, none. Not a single remote chance. Not only will independence bring a voice to the left of Scotland, it will be matched by the resurgent right cut free from their programs in England. Every Scottish person on the day of a yes vote (no matter how they vote) will roll up their sleeves, grab a bucket or a pen and get to work. Once theres work to be done, theres work to be done.

Okay, maybe i am sounding a bit evangelical. I just think the negativity misses the reason why we're neck and neck. If you cant figure out what it is yet that scotland are actually voting on (independence, not the political platform of the SNP or the alex salmond cult of personality), youre prone to misunderstanding the warning signs on what it means for the UK as a whole. Because yes or no, this is just the beginning of a long conversation about what it means to be British in the 21st century.

Edited September 17, 2014 by inutil

[mommysboy]

Who do you think youre convincing though? Lets assume youre right. Lets assume that scottish oil has only 40 years left. Lets assume that the BoE gets to control the financial levers as the borrower of last resort. And lets assume that the EU application takes 5 years (and spain threaten to veto it purely on the grounds that its trying to prevent its own independence movement taking off).

Do you think that your typical scottish person is voting yes because they want their own scrooge mcduck money pit? This isnt a vote for a windfall. Its a vote fully aware that the break up of the union comes with some terrifying consequences to an independent scottish economy. And why do they know this? Because better together have been banging this drum since day 1. And look how well its turning out for them? It took the intervention of Gordon Brown and the prospect of federalism to halt what was becoming an unstoppable momentum taking root in the alleged SUPPORTERS of the better together movement. They have been completely turned off at the whole scale doom mongering. Every person out there knows already that this vote has consequences. And they arent short term positive ones. But the ship will be brought back on track in the medium to long term and thereafter we'll have not only a similar (if not, better) economy, but will also be able to make our own decisions on our own policy and programmes. We will be independent.

Im trying hard not to slip into evangelism here, but how many nations fail following independence, how many of them return (mondays YES talking point), and how likely, HONESTLY, is it that an oil rich nation with its own side industries and global exports that has the infrastructure, education, and business acumen of one of the most important first world economies in the world are suddenly going to flush it down the pan for the sake of some kind of brazen FREEEDUM!!! ideology? Im going to hazard a guess and say, none. Not a single remote chance. Not only will independence bring a voice to the left of Scotland, it will be matched by the resurgent right cut free from their programs in England. Every Scottish person on the day of a yes vote (no matter how they vote) will roll up their sleeves, grab a bucket or a pen and get to work. Once theres work to be done, theres work to be done.

Okay, maybe i am sounding a bit evangelical. I just think the negativity misses the reason why we're neck and neck. If you cant figure out what it is yet that scotland are actually voting on (independence, not the political platform of the SNP or the alex salmond cult of personality), youre prone to misunderstanding the warning signs on what it means for the UK as a whole. Because yes or no, this is just the beginning of a long conversation about what it means to be British in the 21st century.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, I am just stating a few truths that seem to be subject to misunderstanding.

I agree this should be about bonding together as a union, and UK Govt has not addressed the real issue here.

But unfortunately fundamental economic realities are important. If Scotland leaves the UK will be plunged in to a downturn, and Scotland most likely a deep recession. What price freedom then ?

It shouldn't stop anyone voting yes, but be aware of the likely consequences.

I curse the Tories, they destroyed the social fabric of Britain.

[NanLaew]

...

I said that Scotsman IAN Wood is one of the most knowledgable figures in the industry, yet you ignore that fact,same as most Nationalist fanatics ignore most of the unbiased facts relating to this issue, because it contradicts their closed minds.

I know what you said. But the fact remains that Sir Ian Wood knows absolutely NOTHING about oil reserves.

Neither does Westminster.

Neither does Holyrood.

And neither do I although I have worked in the oil and gas exploration industry as an explorer for over 35 years. Determination of reserves is literally a black art and someone who supplies boats and services for the upstream oil and gas industry does not do the black arts.

Now, are you going to call me an insulting ultra-nationalist because on this point I do know what I am talking about?

You say that Scotsman IAN WOOD knows nothing about oil reserves, yet you do. Again most if not all the experts in this field contradict your view, and I am not talking about the experts in Westminster or Holyrood, but you want to take a gamble on your opinion,up to you, GOOD LUCK.

Do you read before posting?

I have highlighted the part in my post where I clearly state that despite working in oil and gas exploration for a very long time, I do not have the knowledge of the earth sciences to even hazard a guess at any oil fields estimates, let alone the North Sea reserves.

I have never, ever claimed that either Salmond's wildly optimistic reserve estimates are any more or any less likely than Darling's dire opposing view. However, I have stated that for such a piddling amount of North Sea oil, the 'Stay Together' team are in an awful panic over possibly losing it.

Maybe Sir Ian's gong conferred some degree of 'crystal ball' ability when it comes to guessing oil reserves... or maybe his engineering company prowess uses a dipstick to measure the reserves. However, I think he has been trotted out by Westminster spin doctors as an 'elder Scottish statesman', replete with the appropriate Aberdeen heritage, in a lame attempt to bolster the recent BP chairman's rather nebulous assertion that Scottish independence could somehow 'harm' North Sea production.