Koh Tao murders: Night crime simulation at Sairee beach to look for clues

[Runamile]

Somehow (yes, I've no idea how), forget the face thing. Ask for the help of Scotland Yard. You are, clearly, out of your depth.

[munmick]

I find this very sad that people come for a holiday,and get murderd,,,If the police sealed the Island and not let anybody leave until they had the D N A results,Then they could have checked all the people there and found the culprits...I have been an advisor to an International Thai company there for 8 years, My friends went to Kanchambury 9 years ago on there holiday and were shot dead by a Thai policeman .No reason. R.I.P to the 2 people...

[scorecard]

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Here is a novel idea. Maybe it's time they should consider that it was a Thai or Thai's that did it. Now that they have wasted the first few precious days focusing solely only on foreigners...unbelievable.

What?

- They initially focused on migrant laborers - well reported.

- Later reports have mentioned looking at farang, but there were NO specific reports that they were only looking at farang.

- It's been mentioned several times, plus pics from CCTV that they are trying to locate an Asian man.

[csabo]

I read in the BP that the cigarettes are LM brand. Rather unlikely, yet not impossible, to be smoked by poor people.

Well that brand doesn't exist in the UK. So unlikely to have been bought by British tourist.

So by that reasoning if there is no Thai beer sold in my home country I will not drink Thai beer in Thailand?

[bangon04]

Police running out of ideas...

Am I the only one having a problem to accept this as news?

since a few hours ago we were told "Koh Tao Latest: Police confident 'killers will be caught';"

perhaps they are preparing us to accept that despite having no idea how to solve the crime, they will make sure someone gets caught....

[EnzoRippo]

It's about time the pilice asked for the advice of Thaivisa experts.

jb1

You are right => people watching a lot of detective series are better "experts" than some Thai policemen whose only strategy is THE CONFESSION. Usually, it's OK, no need to double check and the Burmese would have been very good culprits. But with all this media circus they have to inquire...

[smedly]

I believe that the animals that carried out this double rape and murder had their own transport off the Island i.e. a fishing boat, they did not use any of the standard ferry's, as to nationality it is hard to say.

The shambles of the stellar police work is evident regarding the crime scene and their delay in shutting down the Island and a failure to search surrounding waters for recently departed fishing boats

[EnzoRippo]

It's about time the pilice asked for the advice of Thaivisa experts.

jb1

You are right => people watching a lot of detective series are better "experts" than some Thai policemen whose only strategy is THE CONFESSION. Usually, it's enough, no need to double check and the Burmese would have been very good culprits. But with all this media circus they have to inquire...

[Alwyn]

I read in the BP that the cigarettes are LM brand. Rather unlikely, yet not impossible, to be smoked by poor people.

Well that brand doesn't exist in the UK. So unlikely to have been bought by British tourist.

LM brand is a firm favourite with the Scandis

[Lupatria]

The police also were sceptical about the blood stained hoe used in battering the two tourists to death.

A police officer said normally a criminal would throw away any weapon used in the murder to destroy evidence. But in this case, they were astonished when the hoe was not thrown away, just lied near the log and covered with a sack.

The murderer struck the victims with the hoe and then put it back to hide at the place, which was very unusual, an officer said.

This indicated that the murderer was a cold blooded person, he said.

Keep making public statements like this guys. It just shows your total lack of experience, and that you are unqualified to investigate a crime of this nature.

As you know, the police's main function is extortion and it is structured like a pyramid sales organisation to maximise efficiency in revenue generation. Officers are promoted on their ability to pay upfront for the position and their track records in funnelling cash up the pipe to the next level. If they can't meet quotas, they are transferred to inactive positions and replaced with more hungry officers. It is not really fair to criticise them for poor performance in areas outside their core experise.

If you need more answers google: wiki - history of Thai police force

[Woodsie888]

Who were the others on the beach party that evening? Where are the friends of the victims? Can it be a love crime? Who is the true boy friend of the woman? Can it be that the killer(s) came by boat? Did they were attacked in their sleep? Why is the murder weapon still on place of the crime scene? Did the police talked with the parents? Is anything missing?

Obviously you just arrived in Thailand this afternoon and started following this subject and this thread from post #90.

At least, that's what it seems like after reading your post.

[bander]

Those stupid BIB's don't have a clue how to investigate a murder case.

Both the murdered boy and girl was raped according to earlier OP, I guess the killer(s) didn't use condom witch mean there is DNA evidence on the crime scene.

Why not starting with collecting DNA samples from all the local males on the island for starters?

There was another incidence where a English tourist was glassed by 2 local thai boys, did the BIB's ever try to find those bastards?

My guess is no, nobody here care about a foreigner who get beaten up by Thais.

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2014/09/17/islander-who-was-glassed-in-murder-island-koh-tao-tells-of-his-lucky-escape/

[diehard60]

"He cited the blood-soaked clothes found inside the luggage of Christopher Ware. Although he had been cleared that the blood was from cut while lighting firework but this was unusual.

Forensic police said wound from fireworks could not have produced so much blood on the clothes."

You mean to tell me they can not tell who's blood it was on the clothes??????? What kind of forensic police do they have??????

[mango66]

I can't believe they let those poms go. If your mate gets murdered the only reason you do a runner is if you have something to hide. If he is innocent then he's a first class a hole for running away and not trying to help find who is responsible.

They were due to leave the next morning. He wasn't doing a runner. These were young people in a country they didn't know and had to be subjected to a horrifying ordeal. We don't know the facts and shouldn't condemn people without them. He wasn't the only one in the groupand if innocent this young lads name has been tarnished. Every one reacts different and if it was me the first thing Id want to do it be in familiar surrounding with people I know.

they all were wittnesses on the party and what was going on there,

and for 99% sure, it started already there on the party,

what ever it was,

like it was mentioned that Miller had a dispute with some locals which tuched the girl,

where are this guys, how whoo can identify them ?

the friends of the couple which were left to return without giving the statement about this;

Agathy always requests everyone have to stay, and all will stay, except the murder,

which want to clear evidence or not to be in front line for to be watched;

And what this Thai crooks did? they left all them go!

[Dogmatix]

From what they are now saying it sounds as if more than one killer first murdered David Miller to get him out of the way and then gang raped Hannah Witheridge before murdering her when they were done. Alternatively, Miller may have tried to come to Witheridge's rescue and then been murdered. The water in his lungs suggests that part of the fight took place in the sea and that the killers may have dragged him on to the beach to finish off the murder. Only one blood stained hoe was found with the blood of only one of the victims which suggests there is another murder weapon that the police haven't found.

Thai police are not usually as half-baked as they sometimes make themselves out to be. Often there is a reason for apparently incompetent investigations in that they are trying to cover something up, e.g. the involvement of a friend or even a fellow officer in the crime. Not so long ago some poor sod would have been beaten into confession and the case would have appeared wrapped up (until the confession was later withdrawn in court) but DNA testing now makes that traditional police methodology more difficult.

[Fred Flinstone]

Those stupid BIB's don't have a clue how to investigate a murder case.

Both the murdered boy and girl was raped according to earlier OP, I guess the killer(s) didn't use condom witch mean there is DNA evidence on the crime scene.

Why not starting with collecting DNA samples from all the local males on the island for starters?

There was another incidence where a English tourist was glassed by 2 local thai boys, did the BIB's ever try to find those bastards?

My guess is no, nobody here care about a foreigner who get beaten up by Thais.

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2014/09/17/islander-who-was-glassed-in-murder-island-koh-tao-tells-of-his-lucky-escape/

Seems to be a pronounced unofficial protection racket going on there-

Violence , rape , murder,…and yet little investigation.

Your absolutely right about DNA and the potential to compare it to locals.

The attached story gives us deeper reason to suspect this case will run cold (deliberately)

[stiggy]

Hoes as suspected to be used in this horrible double murder, are easily found along the beach there.

They are used for making sand holes dug daily for bars and restaurants to put plants, signs in etc, they are also used for construction that's ongoing near and around the beach.

All the speculation going on here is simply ridiculous, the local police there would of been totally unprepared for an event like this, within 24 hours there was over 70 police on the island.

I truly hope the truth comes out and people are brought to justice, for the victims, the families, and the islanders who are distraught this has happened on the island.

[umbanda]

I do not know about forensics, drugs, and crimes, but in 2003 I saw a mature woman, a professional, a mother, a medical doctor, under the effects of anfetamines with a big kitchen knife in a jealous rage, and the next day at her hospital job, like nothing happens....She was very close to kill her boyfriend if she was not restrained that night. Makes me wonder if she really recalls what she did......

If drugs were involved in this case any scenario is possible....

[mango66]

put all this 40 party users back on their chair where they were sitting on that evening,

sure one have something to do with the case;

He would make a mistake in his behavier if you would tham watch carefully for 30 minutes;

Maybee he would turn his seat the other way around aas he were sitting on this evening,

to say in the interview, he didn't see the dispute, as he were looking the other side around,

but you have evidence from his neighbour chair, he looked on the dispute;

But police did propably know already the murder and focused the search and press only to Myanmar,

and later on Millers friends;

As you ask before ?

where is this Asian men catched on CCTV ,

where is this or are this Asian male which tuched the girl ??

wittneses are gone !

So police are right: whom to ask now ??

[pasak]

From what they are now saying it sounds as if more than one killer first murdered David Miller to get him out of the way and then gang raped Hannah Witheridge before murdering her when they were done. Alternatively, Miller may have tried to come to Witheridge's rescue and then been murdered. The water in his lungs suggests that part of the fight took place in the sea and that the killers may have dragged him on to the beach to finish off the murder. Only one blood stained hoe was found with the blood of only one of the victims which suggests there is another murder weapon that the police haven't found.

Thai police are not usually as half-baked as they sometimes make themselves out to be. Often there is a reason for apparently incompetent investigations in that they are trying to cover something up, e.g. the involvement of a friend or even a fellow officer in the crime. Not so long ago some poor sod would have been beaten into confession and the case would have appeared wrapped up (until the confession was later withdrawn in court) but DNA testing now makes that traditional police methodology more difficult.

Correctimundo. Which is why this investigation will go nowhere and why I am so happy to be going back to my home country in 3 months time after 27 years on Planet of the Apes.

I recommend anyone and everyone not to come to Thailand for a holiday. There are plenty of places in the world where the diving, the beaches, the food and especially the people are far superior.

[Alwyn]

I believe that the animals that carried out this double rape and murder had their own transport off the Island i.e. a fishing boat, they did not use any of the standard ferry's, as to nationality it is hard to say.

The shambles of the stellar police work is evident regarding the crime scene and their delay in shutting down the Island and a failure to search surrounding waters for recently departed fishing boats

Not to mention packing stained trousers into Mr Millers suitcase... Personally I think the animals are closer to home and with clout on the island - hence the lack of any advancement identifying a suspect or suspects - but that's just personal conjecture

[MJP]

From what they are now saying it sounds as if more than one killer first murdered David Miller to get him out of the way and then gang raped Hannah Witheridge before murdering her when they were done. Alternatively, Miller may have tried to come to Witheridge's rescue and then been murdered. The water in his lungs suggests that part of the fight took place in the sea and that the killers may have dragged him on to the beach to finish off the murder. Only one blood stained hoe was found with the blood of only one of the victims which suggests there is another murder weapon that the police haven't found.

Thai police are not usually as half-baked as they sometimes make themselves out to be. Often there is a reason for apparently incompetent investigations in that they are trying to cover something up, e.g. the involvement of a friend or even a fellow officer in the crime. Not so long ago some poor sod would have been beaten into confession and the case would have appeared wrapped up (until the confession was later withdrawn in court) but DNA testing now makes that traditional police methodology more difficult.

Correctimundo. Which is why this investigation will go nowhere and why I am so happy to be going back to my home country in 3 months time after 27 years on Planet of the Apes.

I recommend anyone and everyone not to come to Thailand for a holiday. There are plenty of places in the world where the diving, the beaches, the food and especially the people are far superior.

Couldn't agree more.

[ebean001]

i wonder why they never reveal the ethnic background of the DNA. Probably a good idea to keep that a secret.

[catweazle]

Sure investigators are now checking both victims' facebook pages and any social media they were connected to, checking holiday photos on cameras left in the hotel room, or perhaps these are "ideas" that did not pop up in their heads "yet"?

Where's Thailand's famous "Doctor Death" (Dr Porntip Rojansunan) in a fragile, high profile case like this one????

Questions over questions...

[MJP]

Sure investigators are now checking both victims' facebook pages and any social media they were connected to, checking holiday photos on cameras left in the hotel room, or perhaps these are "ideas" that did not pop up in their heads "yet"?

Where's Thailand's famous "Doctor Death" (Dr Porntip Rojansunan) in a fragile, high profile case like this one????

Questions over questions...

Unwell with cancer last time I heard.

[kannot]

1. they were found naked, but they did not leave the party naked

Where are their clothes?

2. Thbe murder island is a small island with a not to numerous population

The next step should be getting the DNA of everybody tested (making sure not to rule out the Thai population and the mighty families) And get information who disappeared after the murder

She was wearing her clothes though dishevelled, she was not naked.

Listen mate she was Naked legs spread and totally naked the crime scene pictures are posted on facebook and she is Naked legs spread wide

Horrific for the famillys to see those pictures and outrageous the police allowed them to go public

Good detective you are she HAS clothes on

[Fred Flinstone]

From what they are now saying it sounds as if more than one killer first murdered David Miller to get him out of the way and then gang raped Hannah Witheridge before murdering her when they were done. Alternatively, Miller may have tried to come to Witheridge's rescue and then been murdered. The water in his lungs suggests that part of the fight took place in the sea and that the killers may have dragged him on to the beach to finish off the murder. Only one blood stained hoe was found with the blood of only one of the victims which suggests there is another murder weapon that the police haven't found.

Thai police are not usually as half-baked as they sometimes make themselves out to be. Often there is a reason for apparently incompetent investigations in that they are trying to cover something up, e.g. the involvement of a friend or even a fellow officer in the crime. Not so long ago some poor sod would have been beaten into confession and the case would have appeared wrapped up (until the confession was later withdrawn in court) but DNA testing now makes that traditional police methodology more difficult.

Correctimundo. Which is why this investigation will go nowhere and why I am so happy to be going back to my home country in 3 months time after 27 years on Planet of the Apes.

I recommend anyone and everyone not to come to Thailand for a holiday. There are plenty of places in the world where the diving, the beaches, the food and especially the people are far superior.

Planet of the apes?…..

I admit to laughing (just a bit…ok a lot )

Yes , point taken

[jamiesilver]

Its such a shame and i really feel for their families and relatives.
Why are they even releasing statements like this?

[wabothai]

Information from the press said there was hair in the young ladie's hand.

Not a word about this....lots of talk about cigaret butts......do you understand?

I don't !!!!!

[Alwyn]

All this brutal murdering, police ineptitude and PM "clumsiness" is impacting tourism despite what TAT tell us. My 2 kids (27 + 24) have cancelled their summer plans for Thailand and are instead off to Natal, Brasil where my son and I lived for a year or so. Beaches are far nicer, food is way better (if you like meat anyway) people are million times nicer and there's more to do plus without the chances of getting topped on a beach! Natal sits exactly on the equator so weather is fine with a nice sea breeze keeping the humidity at bay. Why would they not? My daughter (she's a teacher hence the great summer breaks etc) tells me a bunch of her mates from Uni are calling it a day with Thailand too. The British only make up a small percentage of the numbers and this won't stop the Russians or Chinese from visiting as they probably are not even aware of this but it still suck donkey's balls.