Koh Tao islanders offer reward for clues on Brit tourist killers: Update

[englishoak]

Why aren't the powerful local families offering up millions in reward money? 50,000 Baht is an insult.

Why should they? Would you?

If I were a powerful local family with multiple tourist dependent business interests ? oh yea you bet I would be offering millions, its a business investment as much as anything else.

Its good business to protect your business.

Millions maybe... 50 thousand?? Token.

yes 50k is token..... its not worth a risk to your life to talk for that amount, not even a thai farmhand. So ask yourself why a token amount ?

I bet we could raise that in a few days from TV members here and god knows how much if people started collecting for a fund.

How about it TV and george ? how about a reward fund for the killers and conviction ?

Do we care enough here ? Id like to think so and id happily donate a few k bht np

[mojorison]

The government should be slamming 2 million baht down on the table shown all over national TV someone will talk then.

This +1

[fish fingers]

well, the Thai authorities can usually smooth over all the murders, rapes and beatings, but this one isn't going away. Its a shame it takes such a brutal crime.

At the end of the day, islands like Koh Tao get overdeveloped by greedy developers and politicians

policing is bribes only

inevitably drug dealers and gangs move in

and when these nasty crimes take place, the victim or victims family doesn't get justice

[les Dennis]

Its not enough. Nowhere near enough and the locals know it. It is nothing more than a brittle olive branch.

[johnmail]

Ok perhaps your all are missing something. Its a given that the families who run Koh Tao are very rich meaning that have a very lucrative business to protect and also possibly a worker or relative to protect "if" a Thai did the crime.

On top of that you have FACE which is very important in Thai culture. Life death important.

On top of that you have the entire tourism industry at stake here and people behind the scenes are negotiating and trying to decide the best way to play this.

Do we let it be a murder mystery? Or do we bring out the guys who did this and create a bigger media circus?

Meanwhile you have to also looks at other financial indicators. There is more money to be made taking 50 million baht bribes from rich Koh Tao families to play dumb and screw up the investigation, sending hundreds of men around with white gloves for photo ops etc than there is to be putting that money toward a bounty or reward.

The families are most likely negotiating furiously and emptying there bank acounts. Meanwhile the cops won't even mention one thai suspect. The list of trouble makers on Koh Tao who were close to the scene is probably 10 or less.

On top of that orders come from the top down in thailand so everyone is hoping that this can be a mystery murder and part of folklore.

Can you what i'm getting at. A lot of money is exchanging hands. But aint gonna go to some snitch because they already know who did this.

[LanceGringo]

I'd think that for all involved, they would need to make sure that this crime gets solved, has some sort of conclusion. The entire world is watching this unfold now, questions are already being asked as to why, given the amount of evidence that has been recovered, we're still no closer to naming a real suspect, or having a concrete, solid lead to chase.

If this does end up being an 'unsolved mystery', it won't be because of the criminals involved, it will be due to an inadequate police investigation. And as far as tourism goes for the island, and the so-called families that run it, well, who in the right mind is going to want to visit an island famous for unsolved murders?

Nobody.

[mojorison]

Millions maybe... 50 thousand?? Token.

If I were a powerful local family with multiple tourist dependent business interests ? oh yea you bet I would be offering millions, its a business investment as much as anything else.

Its good business to protect your business.

yes 50k is token..... its not worth a risk to your life to talk for that amount, not even a thai farmhand. So ask yourself why a token amount ?

I bet we could raise that in a few days from TV members here and god knows how much if people started collecting for a fund.

How about it TV and george ? how about a reward fund for the killers and conviction ?

Do we care enough here ? Id like to think so and id happily donate a few k bht np

We are members of the PHA (Phangan Hotels Association), this is a government recognized group that was set up about 2 years ago, as a forum for owners to voice their views to improve business and quality of tourism for both tourist and owners alike. We pay an annual fee (about 4000 baht per year, which is nothing in a business sense), and the idea is that we get together monthly and come up with ideas. I can think of hundreds of initiatives... but they are still very narrow-minded, so we sit back a bit. Every "new idea" they have is prefaced with "Full moon party...", such as FMP marathon, FMP food festival, FMP Buddhist learning experience (!!!).

But you are right. I will gladly toss in 10,000 baht to a fund that does real things to help tourists. Mostly signage and community tents to give advice... our customers are VERY receptive to getting good advice. But all they get is BAD advice. As we all know, it is in everyone's best interests for the tourists to have positive memorable and happy experiences... the benefits are directly related to our bottom line. (Koh Tao, is just like Koh Phangan, but one tenth the size, and a few years behind... mind you they get pretty well the same volume of tourists as Koh Phangan.) Anyway, I am overly verbose in these threads, because it is of the utmost concern to us, and is firmly placed in the front of my mind. Sorry to crap on.

[Loles]

Why aren't the powerful local families offering up millions in reward money? 50,000 Baht is an insult.

Why isn't the powerful English expat colony offering up 5 Million B in reward money?

Or English Embassy?

These islander people try to rescuse the island's reputation so don't piss off them.

[Loles]

The government should be slamming 2 million baht down on the table shown all over national TV someone will talk then.

Agree. If the major Koh Tao business owners (mafia) won't do it, then Dear Leader should.

Man in Chiang Mai it's time to take in your medicine ...

[PaPiPuPePo]

Ok perhaps your all are missing something. Its a given that the families who run Koh Tao are very rich meaning that have a very lucrative business to protect and also possibly a worker or relative to protect "if" a Thai did the crime.

On top of that you have FACE which is very important in Thai culture. Life death important.

On top of that you have the entire tourism industry at stake here and people behind the scenes are negotiating and trying to decide the best way to play this.

Do we let it be a murder mystery? Or do we bring out the guys who did this and create a bigger media circus?

Meanwhile you have to also looks at other financial indicators. There is more money to be made taking 50 million baht bribes from rich Koh Tao families to play dumb and screw up the investigation, sending hundreds of men around with white gloves for photo ops etc than there is to be putting that money toward a bounty or reward.

The families are most likely negotiating furiously and emptying there bank acounts. Meanwhile the cops won't even mention one thai suspect. The list of trouble makers on Koh Tao who were close to the scene is probably 10 or less.

On top of that orders come from the top down in thailand so everyone is hoping that this can be a mystery murder and part of folklore.

Can you what i'm getting at. A lot of money is exchanging hands. But aint gonna go to some snitch because they already know who did this.

I hope you're wrong but the 50,000 Bt offered looks like a slap in the face or a joke. "From the people of Koh Tao" makes it sound like they walked the length of the island with a jar and a sign and all the humble folk dug deep and came up with 20 Bt or so. I really sense from these various government officials a chilling lack of sympathy, as if this all revolves around someone's pet that was run over at a crossing without a stop sign.

The victims' families and friends would do well to educate themselves on the local and Thai situation if they want results. As cynical as some of the opinions on this forum are they could probably learn a thing or two about dealing with Thai authorities from reading them.

[Tywais]

One inflammatory post and one off topic post removed.

[les Dennis]

Why aren't the powerful local families offering up millions in reward money? 50,000 Baht is an insult.

Why isn't the powerful English expat colony offering up 5 Million B in reward money?

Or English Embassy?

These islander people try to rescuse the island's reputation so don't piss off them.

The English dont have their own embassy. Im not allowed to point out the irony of your post apparently given the recent Scottish referendum and the troubles in recent years with the Irish split. But I can assure you its a British embassy and an Irish embassy.

[variable]

The government should be slamming 2 million baht down on the table shown all over national TV someone will talk then.

Agree. If the major Koh Tao business owners (mafia) won't do it, then Dear Leader should.

Why would Thaksin get involved?

[Lukecan]

At least they are offering something, what is the british government offering? Nothing. If they offer 10m baht, the murder will be solved instantly, Thailand is full of people who worship money, someone will snitch.

[SteveFong]

It is a good start, and will get people talking,

if the local business people are worried enough, and they should be,

someone will start talking, and,

I think,

the pressure for witnesses and accomplices to stay silent, will ultimately lead to more threats, or more deaths

if suddenly, two bodies matching the descriptions of the guys running in front of the CCTV,

I wouldnt be surprised at all

[simple1]

At least they are offering something, what is the british government offering? Nothing. If they offer 10m baht, the murder will be solved instantly, Thailand is full of people who worship money, someone will snitch.

Other than the 'War on Terror' has any Western government ever offered a reward for information for crimes committed against their citizens overseas?

[Tokay]

25,000 baht per dead foreigner. Sounds about right.

If anyone was serious, they would throw down real cash to the tune of a few million. Instead, they insult the dead and their families by offering 50,000.

To put things into perspective, the person (ended up being a Thai) who hung the two dogs in Pattaya last week had a 20,000 baht reward for him, and he hung two dogs.

[A1Str8]

Make a million and then maybe, just maybe some people will think it is worth speaking out. 50k with a chance of upsetting someone influential ain't going to be enough.

Influential or not. If i knew anything i would tell anyway free of charge.

[stoltmamma]

Why aren't the powerful local families offering up millions in reward money? 50,000 Baht is an insult.

Why should they? Would you?

Maybe you should read a little about Koh Tao. A collection of families making enormous sums of money from tourism. Now your little island paradise is the subject of terrible news around the world. So aside from the fact that it's the right thing to do, would I pony up a large reward to protect my interests? Yes.

Yeah, and 50,000 is on the money right? It is a token. It is not even one quarter of the bar take on a good night. What is wrong with you people, can you really be so naive?

Mojorison ... that's exactly everybody's point---50,000 baht is not the right amount of money, not even close. And if the rich land and business owners really wanted the murderer(s) to be caught, they'd not only be posting a huge reward themselves, they'd be ordering every one of their employees and relatives and friends to go speak to the police general who came from BKK and provide DNA samples. Now that would give people some confidence that they are not protecting anybody.

And yes, like you said in another comment, it does seem more like a merit offering than a real reward ... which could even have been suggested by monks. The reward, like the prayer ceremony at the beach, could actually have two purposes--neither of which is to catch the killer. One is to make merit without actually doing anything, since the reward is too small to make someone risk their life by giving info. The other is to give appearances to the outside world that the mayor is trying to help find the killer, again with no risk the tiny reward will actually make that happen.

Another interesting cultural point is the prayer ceremony. I accept at face value the good intentions of the locals praying for the souls of the two victims, which we all do, and their sadness and shock at the murders. But they were also for certain trying to propitiate the "ghosts" that most of them (probably all) believe will be bringing bad luck to the island. Again, this is not a judgment, it is just a fact of Thai culture and mentality.

You are almost saying that no ones want the murders to be caught .which is stupid right? I mean why would they not care? Why would it be a conspi towards hannah and david, they were just two young people on vacations,not politics. This murder is also bad news for thai tourism ,the government lose much money because of it. I think they want to close that investigation asap.

[cardinalblue]

Why aren't the powerful local families offering up millions in reward money? 50,000 Baht is an insult.

Why should they? Would you?

At least in the States - it happens a lot in heinous crimes or crimes against children, disabled or even animals where community or national groups NGOs, associations, relevant individuals tied to the victim in someway (SPCA to animals, child/disable orgs to children/handicapped, local police/civic groups, sport team owners (the severe beating a fan), etc

It's quite common but the funding source(s) differ based on the nature/victim of the crime...

CB

[slygeeza]

not a dna expert, but wouldnt a half dozen dna tests of the thai families on the island go a long way to clearing them, or not. not that in the end it probably matters since in Pattaya chasing a guy down the street and caving his head in with an iron bar doesnt seem to be against the law in any case

[traviss]

Is it possible for someone here to post a list of islanders that have made reward contributions? Didn't think so...perhaps it may only be poor and hard working individuals interested in the truth and trying to save their job that may be in jeopardy if tourism slows due to the crime. Perhaps they have given what they can. If so, and we will never know, let's try and recognize the good of their intentions.

Big reward money from the affluent island families and business owners seeking truth and justice is a couple worlds away from even the world of dreams.

In the event such persons/families/business are handing out money it is surely to the persons/authorities that have the ability to make this go away. Hell, once it is reported that a cooperative of affluent island families and businesses are offering a large reward then we will know that they have decide which migrant worker/workers (possibly innocent) will be handed over to the authorities.

Good press and doesn't actually cost them anything. Win, Win for the island, BIB, and Thailand. May even increase revenue as tourists may recognize it as a very well managed island and a safe one at that, due to the perceived low thresh hold of the island people and business's for violent crimes against foreign tourists. "If the police don't take care of your problems then please let us know and we will. No charge, just want you to be happy and have a good experience here on our island". Smoke and mirrors...Smoke and mirrors

Are foreign tourists still traveling to the island? I bet so... Will more tourists continue future travel to the island even if the crime goes unsolved? I bet so...Is there violent crimes committed against foreigners in Pattaya and Phuket? Yes, but foreign tourists still flock to these locations. People don't care as most/many believe something like this will never happen to them. Crimes, and violent crimes against foreigners will continue with minimal impact to the total number of tourists entering the country for holiday.

Today, I had a service technician at the Honda dealer openly accept responsibility for an incomplete repair on our car. Almost choked on my 7 Eleven sausage. The PM apologized for previous remarks he made regarding this case. The BIB is requesting help from the FBI with the case. This is not the Thailand that I know. Why is this happening? Have the Thai people lost their minds?

Edited September 20, 2014 by traviss

[wabothai]

Why not 50 million? For many concerned with Thai face the 50 may be pocket change. Now we are getting somewhere!! Damage from tarnished image might cost billions in revenue.

I feel so sorry for the families !!

[Thai at Heart]

Why aren't the powerful local families offering up millions in reward money? 50,000 Baht is an insult.

Maybe because the offender is one of their relatives ??

Better than the BIB. 10 of of 10. Finally someone said it.

[ScotBkk]

Make a million and then maybe, just maybe some people will think it is worth speaking out. 50k with a chance of upsetting someone influential ain't going to be enough.

MrToad,

My friend has already contacted the relative authorities in the UK for such a fund so will keep you posted if anything comes out of it.

Cheers

[emilymat]

Is there a 'witness protection programme' or similar in Thailand?. There ought to be.

[vogie]

Why aren't the powerful local families offering up millions in reward money? 50,000 Baht is an insult.

Why should they? Would you?

Maybe you should read a little about Koh Tao. A collection of families making enormous sums of money from tourism. Now your little island paradise is the subject of terrible news around the world. So aside from the fact that it's the right thing to do, would I pony up a large reward to protect my interests? Yes.

Yeah, and 50,000 is on the money right? It is a token. It is not even one quarter of the bar take on a good night. What is wrong with you people, can you really be so naive?

The money may be a pittance (to us) but it's probably more than you have donated?

[Scott]

An off topic deflection post has been removed as well as a reply.

And another off-topic, personal comment to another poster has been deleted.

Please stay on topic.

[harryfrompattaya]

I am sorry to say but maybe it shows what they think of Farangs or maybe how poor Thais really are

Edited September 20, 2014 by harryfrompattaya

[JoeLing]

To all posters who think 50'000 THB isn't enough,

to all the posters who think 50'000 THB is an insult,

I'm sure, moaning and belittling will not help anyone but
here is YOUR chance to make a difference, YOUR
donations in to this reward pool is highly appreciated.

Thank you