Asian suspects raped English tourist

[pasak]

At least the BS can stop now and they can start testing the Thai folk...

Why the Thai folk? Such blatant bigotry is awfull. Could be true and so be it. Possibly not.

The words of a man without education or perception. Sad that this forum is so full of dollaly posters.

"Could be true and so be it". Such indifference in the face of such trauma.

[max72]

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Koh Tao suspects 'Asian men'

THAILAND: The DNA found in a victim's body in the Koh Tao double murder belonged to two Asian men, according to deputy police chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung.

The test results from the semen found in the female victim's body indicated the suspects were Mongoloid and not Caucasian.

The results helped narrow down the search, said Pol Gen Somyot, who will become the national police chief on October 1.

Two Britons, Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were found dead on a beach on Koh Tao in Surat Thani province with severe head injuries on Monday morning (September 15).

Earlier, the autopsy on Ms Witheridge found semen from two people but subsequent DNA tests found no matches to any of the seven people detained — six Myanmar labourers and one Briton — shortly after the murders.

A cigarette butt found near the bodies on Friday (September 19) contained the DNA of Ms Witheridge and another person. It was believed the second person was someone she knew because the cigarette was shared.

Pol Gen Somyot was in Koh Tao earlier today (September 20) to follow up on the investigation.

He said that after the reconstruction of the crime scene on Friday, the case had progressed and the police had not ruled out anyone. Officers even took DNA samples of more than 20 local women, British media reported.

People on the island from tourists to fishermen and workers are being investigated, he said.

Police on Friday asked the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to help with DNA testing to identify racial markers but they later cancelled the request after succeeding in conducting the tests.

-- Phuket News 2014-09-20

"A cigarette butt found near the bodies on Friday (September 19) contained the DNA of Ms Witheridge and another person. It was believed the second person was someone she knew because the cigarette was shared"

Considering the remote location the bodies were found (away from the other party makers) the above for me would be the DNA of a person of considerable interest as it would be likely they would have been at the crime scene.

I read earlier that a cigarette butt not only contained DNA that matched semen in her body and that this butt had been shared by more than one person but that traces of lipstick were also found on the butt.

I've seen almost no one take up the case of the lipstick traces. Was this Hannah's lipstick? It should be fairly easy to confirm from her belongings. If so, then it suggests that she had social contact with her murderers before she was killed.So now the police need to find out who was in the area at the time by cross-questioning witnesses and trying to track everybody's movements on that night.

This is the time to reform the police , not to suppress people or serve the army or to collect bribes, but to be a real police force.

This is the result of decades of corruption and incompetence. No investigation skills at all.

[lemonjelly]

Per the story at 0600 this morning the police didn't have the technology to properly conduct the DNA testing and were seeking the help of the FBI and now all of a sudden they ard DNA experts and have the case solved. Must have found a copy of DNA testing for Dummies

.... or possibly not getting the FBI involved will faciltate the RTP framing a migrant worker to wrap the case up and get it out of the headlines.

[lucaswallachia]

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Koh Tao suspects 'Asian men'

THAILAND: The DNA found in a victim's body in the Koh Tao double murder belonged to two Asian men, according to deputy police chief Pol Gen Somyot Poompanmoung.

The test results from the semen found in the female victim's body indicated the suspects were Mongoloid and not Caucasian.

The results helped narrow down the search, said Pol Gen Somyot, who will become the national police chief on October 1.

Two Britons, Hannah Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were found dead on a beach on Koh Tao in Surat Thani province with severe head injuries on Monday morning (September 15).

Earlier, the autopsy on Ms Witheridge found semen from two people but subsequent DNA tests found no matches to any of the seven people detained — six Myanmar labourers and one Briton — shortly after the murders.

A cigarette butt found near the bodies on Friday (September 19) contained the DNA of Ms Witheridge and another person. It was believed the second person was someone she knew because the cigarette was shared.

Pol Gen Somyot was in Koh Tao earlier today (September 20) to follow up on the investigation.

He said that after the reconstruction of the crime scene on Friday, the case had progressed and the police had not ruled out anyone. Officers even took DNA samples of more than 20 local women, British media reported.

People on the island from tourists to fishermen and workers are being investigated, he said.

Police on Friday asked the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to help with DNA testing to identify racial markers but they later cancelled the request after succeeding in conducting the tests.

-- Phuket News 2014-09-20

"A cigarette butt found near the bodies on Friday (September 19) contained the DNA of Ms Witheridge and another person. It was believed the second person was someone she knew because the cigarette was shared"

Considering the remote location the bodies were found (away from the other party makers) the above for me would be the DNA of a person of considerable interest as it would be likely they would have been at the crime scene.

I read earlier that a cigarette butt not only contained DNA that matched semen in her body and that this butt had been shared by more than one person but that traces of lipstick were also found on the butt.

I've seen almost no one take up the case of the lipstick traces. Was this Hannah's lipstick? It should be fairly easy to confirm from her belongings. If so, then it suggests that she had social contact with her murderers before she was killed.So now the police need to find out who was in the area at the time by cross-questioning witnesses and trying to track everybody's movements on that night.

Though if she had her handbag on her, that probably would of contained the lipstick she was wearing at the mo. You can see she was wearing light pink lipstick from the pics anyway so should of been easy to match.

Edited September 20, 2014 by lucaswallachia

[ScotBkk]

I read the same story, someone ran to Big C to get a new testing kit. What the heck are they doing and my GOD !!!! did they have to make public that they found semen in her anal cavity. The poor family !!

Just goes to show nothing is sacred with such reports and definitive pictures of her laying spread eagled on the beach and not even in death did anyone spare these poor innocent youngsters some dignity. Its as if they're paraded publicly as some freak show.

Sick and so sad ...................

[SPB65]

I'm not sure about the fisherman theory, aren't they all out at sea working at night anyway ? I've no idea what time they come back to shore though...sunrise ?

The likely theory to me is a local "big" guy losing face in the bar, the farang not knowing how to handle it properly and the Thai guy out to get him and the girl later on. It makes more sense in terms of motive than some random fishermen or migrant workers pouncing on them and taking it to the extreme they did. I still believe a big part of this hangs on what did or didn't happen in that bar and there must have been a fair few witnesses, so where are they ?

[tonyboy33]

Tham1, on 20 Sept 2014 - 16:58, said:

Pol Gen Somyot Phunphanmuang disclosed the latest test of DNA samples collected from semen found inside the vagina and annal of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23, showed they belonged to Mongoloid people or Asians.

I find it hard to believe that this statement was reported. Who is in charge of this farce?

Unfortunately, the Press is/are compounding the problem by actually printing what these people are saying. Have they no sense of decency either?

[pasak]

This is a great development and at the same time, very sad for the affected families to have to hear the details publically. Horrible.

\

Spot on, tomyummer; they could have left those very intimate details out of the public domain, for Pete's Sake ! ! ! I feel so sorry for the parents here ! ! ! ! !

If the Thais cannot put a stop to such abhorrent behaviour then the rest of the world should vote with their feet and holiday elsewhere. There are plenty of other countries offering similar 'entertainment services' and with cleaner beaches and better food - and with a lower per capita quota of rapists.

Care to give a few examples?

I would be hard pressed to give you examples of a less desirable destination.

[kannot]

Maybe he could get a little more definitive results from the world expert analysts compared to the local staff who have neither the depth of training, experience or equipment. It bemuses me that Thais do not understand how far they are behind the world scientifically.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

" It bemuses me that Thais do not understand how far they are behind the world scientifically."

If only the whole world was as great as people in Farang Land.

It bemuses me that farangs do not understand how imperfect their systems of (supposed) justice are and the naivete with which they blindly assume everything in Farang Utopia is so much more superior.

There are none so blind ...

it is interesting to note that in England and Wales, between 1996 and 2006, 175 people accused of either murder (138) or manslaughter (37) subsequently had their convictions quashed by the Court of Appeal. In all these cases no retrial was ordered. Further to this, 106 (90 for murder and 16 for manslaughter) were then cleared upon retrial. This gives a total of 281 people wrongly convicted for the most serious of crimes. This of course does not account for wrongful convictions in areas of assault, rape, fraud, robbery etc. In each and every case, it could be argued that the individuals concerned must have had their human rights infringed upon as a result of an initially flawed judicial process. After all, the British judicial system promotes itself around the world as being a shining beacon to which many other countries aspire.

http://insidetime.org/articleview.asp?a=108&c=british_injustice

10,000 INNOCENT PEOPLE CONVICTED EACH YEAR, STUDY ESTIMATES

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- About 10,000 people in the United States may be wrongfully convicted of serious crimes each year, a new study suggests.

The results are based on a survey of 188 judges, prosecuting attorneys, public defenders, sheriffs and police

chiefs in Ohio and 41 state attorneys general.

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/ronhuff.htm

The difference of course in Frangland is they got out...............how many do you want to bet get out in Thailand from false imprisonment???

[lucaswallachia]

I'm not sure about the fisherman theory, aren't they all out at sea working at night anyway ? I've no idea what time they come back to shore though...sunrise ?

The likely theory to me is a local "big" guy losing face in the bar, the farang not knowing how to handle it properly and the Thai guy out to get him and the girl later on. It makes more sense in terms of motive than some random fishermen or migrant workers pouncing on them and taking it to the extreme they did. I still believe a big part of this hangs on what did or didn't happen in that bar and there must have been a fair few witnesses, so where are they ?

And also when did both David and Hannah's friends seem them last, surely either of their friends must of known they had go off together or maybe had arranged to meet up at that spot.

[alanrchase]

At least the BS can stop now and they can start testing the Thai folk...

Why the Thai folk? Such blatant bigotry is awfull. Could be true and so be it. Possibly not.

The words of a man without education or perception. Sad that this forum is so full of dollaly posters.

"Could be true and so be it". Such indifference in the face of such trauma.

Sorry. The judgement is out at the moment. No indifference on my part to a terrible crime. Why blame a Thai?

[NCFC]

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Something is amiss here. a quote from one of todays press releases

"He said that after the reconstruction of the crime scene on Friday, the case had progressed and the police had not ruled out anyone. Officers even took DNA samples of more than 20 local women, British media reported."

I read this through twice so I was not misreading. After withdrawing the FBI request due to the new found in-house knowledge re using DNA, they found semen in one of the victims...... then they are doing DNA testing on 20 women ?????? Do they think that these women are going to provide a match for the semen found in the victim.....

Is this not beyond consideration? ... or the women of Koh Tao a little different?

Maybe the book they found this morning on "How to Do DNA Testing" should be reread.

At first reading of course it does seem strange to test the women. However, as DNA can trace blood lines, what if they found a DNA compatible trace in one of the women? Would that not narrow the search down to her family line and possibly someone who had already left the island? Maybe not so off the ball park as it first seems - except for the fact that we are assuming logical thinking from the BIB!

Exactly what I thought. I have seen a number of documentaries where families (male & FEMALE) DNA have been a close match to a perpetrator, and therefore help illuminate suspects as well as narrow down possible suspects. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/biometric-analysis/codis/familial-searching

Indeed. The UK's Duke of Edinburgh famously gave a DNA sample in a case where a woman claimed to be Anastasia, the daughter of the Tsar of Russia, who you will be remember was assassinated along with his family.

It was determined that the woman was a hoaxer.

[IAMSOBAD]

I've said from day one...look at the locals,especially the ones investigating and going after stupid clues to throw off the scent.

[RigPig]

Something is amiss here. a quote from one of todays press releases

"He said that after the reconstruction of the crime scene on Friday, the case had progressed and the police had not ruled out anyone. Officers even took DNA samples of more than 20 local women, British media reported."

I read this through twice so I was not misreading. After withdrawing the FBI request due to the new found in-house knowledge re using DNA, they found semen in one of the victims...... then they are doing DNA testing on 20 women ?????? Do they think that these women are going to provide a match for the semen found in the victim.....

Is this not beyond consideration? ... or the women of Koh Tao a little different?

Maybe the book they found this morning on "How to Do DNA Testing" should be reread.

As I posted on another thread (and I am not saying the BIB are smart enough to have thought of this) but testing women is probably an intelligent thing to do as the perp's (male) have probably skipped by now (I would have). However they are probably not clever enough to think that DNA from their mother, sister or daughter could link them to the crime. So if it is a local or someone with a female relative on the island it could solve the case very quickly. However I have no idea why they were taking their foot prints. I suspect in this case they are just clutching at straws and want to be seen to be doing something.

[lucaswallachia]

I find it incredulous that nobody heard anything from the place they were staying at when they were so close it.

[transam]

I read the same story, someone ran to Big C to get a new testing kit. What the heck are they doing and my GOD !!!! did they have to make public that they found semen in her anal cavity. The poor family !!

Just goes to show nothing is sacred with such reports and definitive pictures of her laying spread eagled on the beach and not even in death did anyone spare these poor innocent youngsters some dignity. Its as if they're paraded publicly as some freak show.

Sick and so sad ...................

Remember, this is LOS and photos of dead folk are mandatory, a sort of buzz for folk here.

Facebook is full of this gory crap posted by numnuts. Look at any road accident and for sure the numnuts will be there with their phones taking pics of dead to "impress" their friends. Big bonus if it is a farang involved .

[coma]

IMO Highly unlikely the culprit/s are Koh Tao residents. So they haven't narrowed it down too much.

[metisdead]

A post containing links to Thai language news sites has been removed. As this is the English language side of the forum, let's keep the reports in English language please.

[ScotBkk]

I read the same story, someone ran to Big C to get a new testing kit. What the heck are they doing and my GOD !!!! did they have to make public that they found semen in her anal cavity. The poor family !!

Just goes to show nothing is sacred with such reports and definitive pictures of her laying spread eagled on the beach and not even in death did anyone spare these poor innocent youngsters some dignity. Its as if they're paraded publicly as some freak show.

Sick and so sad ...................

Remember, this is LOS and photos of dead folk are mandatory, a sort of buzz for folk here.

Facebook is full of this gory crap posted by numnuts. Look at any road accident and for sure the numnuts will be there with their phones taking pics of dead to "impress" their friends. Big bonus if it is a farang involved .

I concur Transam,

However, I can't even begin to imagine how their family feel with this negative BS being spread around the world like bubonic plague and nobody seems to care but us people with morals ......

I'm only a virtual spectator of sorts and it even stresses me out .... I'm appalled at all this and would love to see closure one way or the other for everyone concerned ............................

Edited September 20, 2014 by ScotBkk

[Commerce]

This thread should be locked. It just becomes more and more sickening, with sick ideas and lack of content by posters having a Saturday evening drink!

It is going nowhere; full of awful and shocking assumptions.

Whatever happened to your respect for the deceased and the families reading this, hoping to get clues? Why the need to spout-off illegitimete thoughts of no value?

Please, give it a rest - until the next thread tomorrow - which you can all attack once more.

[maco]

first, the FBI: here's probably the scenario:

cop: can you tell me the race from the DNA?

lab: well, err...

cop: yes or no?

lab: cannot guarantee it - only FBI can do that

cop: send it to FBI

...

lab: we ran more tests and found Gm^ag and Gm^afb1b³ haplotypes

cop: &lt;deleted&gt;?

lab: they're Chinese heritage, including Thai

cop: ok! forget about the FBI - we don't want to pay their freaking bill

this could happen anywhere

second, taking DNA tests from women. imho very clever:

- perpetrator is scarce if not long gone, esp if he has a little cash

- mitochondria is passed from mother to offspring unchanged

- mother probably are not running away - and would be conspicuous if both disappeared

[Nemesis7]

why do the issue Public Statements when they have no concrete news??

[Evolare]

I thought the correct term for people from Mongolia where mongol people not Mongoloid as those are people with downs syndrome.

Am I wrong?

[ZABA]

I'm curious, how many Thai's have been DNA tested?

- just a question....

[H1w4yR1da]

To save face: just pretend that the people living on this island are not "real Thais", a kind of ethnic tribe very far from the famous "good people" in Bangkok.

Yeah.

It was the Mongoloids.

Mongoloid:

adjective

1 often offensive of or relating to the broad division of humankind including the indigenous peoples of eastern Asia, Southeast Asia, and the Arctic region of North America.

2 (mongoloid) offensive affected with Down syndrome.

noun:

1 often offensive a person of a Mongoloid physical type.

2 offensive a person with Down syndrome.

They haven't ruled out Zombies yet...

LOL Maybe it was a Thai-English bad translation. It should be "Mongolian" indeed

I've been to most of the tourist islands in Thailand.

Mongoloid seems an accurate description.

Edited September 20, 2014 by H1w4yR1da

[katana]

I certainly agree on the sensitivity issue to the family. It's way over the top. The press in Thailand has to learn some civility in reporting on such matters. The family already asked for sensitivity but I guess it didn't do much good.

Based on the results, why, may I ask, were the authorities testing women? It's all very bizarre. With all the insensitive graphic details, I have still never seen it disclosed that the blood on the hoe matched the victims' DNA. Any fingerprints perhaps?

Lastly, I haven't seen the racial classification 'Mongoloid' used in decades. It's all very, very bizarre and extremely sad for the families of the victims.

Yes, it was widely reported in the Thai press on the day the DNA results were announced that the blood on the hoe matched that of the female victim Hannah Witheridge.

[wilcopops]

Two things worry me.

One the apparent blind faith in DNA and their abilities to test it correctly

two - their inability to see this in any other terms apart from race. DNA may detect ancestry, but it doesn't fit with your passport.

Edited September 20, 2014 by wilcopops

[IAMSOBAD]

This thread should be locked. It just becomes more and more sickening, with sick ideas and lack of content by posters having a Saturday evening drink!

It is going nowhere; full of awful and shocking assumptions.

Whatever happened to your respect for the deceased and the families reading this, hoping to get clues? Why the need to spout-off illegitimete thoughts of no value?

Please, give it a rest - until the next thread tomorrow - which you can all attack once more.

Please Do Not Read a thread that upsets you.

And don't insult every poster with rudeness.

[heyexile]

Per the story at 0600 this morning the police didn't have the technology to properly conduct the DNA testing and were seeking the help of the FBI and now all of a sudden they ard DNA experts and have the case solved. Must have found a copy of DNA testing for Dummies

It's the same Police Commissioner with two different stories on two different days: Yesterday:

Police will request help from the United States' Federation Bureau of Investigation to test semen found in the body of a female British backpacker brutally murdered on the resort island of Koh Tao this week.

DNA testing technology in Thailand could only identify whether human secretions came from a male or female, said deputy police chief General Somyot Pumpunmuang, while the FBI had "sophisticated technology".

"We will ask the FBI to help identify the DNA in the semen we found - whether it belonged to an Asian or European," he said yesterday.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761855-police-seek-help-from-fbi-on-dna/#entry8410547

Today:

Royal Thai Police commissioner revealed Saturday that latest DNA examination has now confirmed Asian suspects responsible for the rape and murder of the English tourist in Koh Tao.

Pol Gen Somyot Phunphanmuang disclosed the latest test of DNA samples collected from semen found inside the vagina and annal of Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23, showed they belonged to Mongoloid people or Asians.

Good to see the case is in the hands of the professionals

Lead story on Sky news this eve. They report the Police Commissioner announcing the DNA samples were sent to Singapore and the new results come from a specialist DNA lab in Singapore

[ChoakMyDee]

I was a copper for 35 + years and I'm totally gobsmacked at the way the Thai Police have/are handling this. They appear to go public with every bit of information they acquire, without holding anything in reserve (having an Ace up their sleeve)to counter bogus alibis, red-herrings etc.

Do the general public NEED to know EVERY intimate detail ?

Serious question: Do the RTP go through ANY type of training or are they just given a uniform, a gun and told to go out there and be seen?

If I had performed my duties the way the RTP do, I would be ashamed to admit that I was once a Police Officer.

I AM DISGUSTED WITH, NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE INCIDENT BUT ALSO THE PROFESSIONALISM OF BOTH THE POLICE AND THE MEDIA.

You just arrived? Is this your first news story regarding the Thai police? Calm down.