Koh Tao headman offers Bt1m cash if evidence proves his family implicated in the tourist murder

[Goshawk]

this is becoming more an more like a Christopher Moore Novel

. . . & more and even more like an Inspector Clouseau farce.

[ScubaPhuket]

And ofcourse this poor man made his fortune by growing coconuts!!

After reading the the Op, am I the only one even more confused??

I don't know Koh Tao, but many rich island families in Thailand have made their money by selling off land. It is worth a fortune but not so long ago was just cheap farm land.

He made the money of the land that actually doesn't belong to him. The land on Koh Tao belong to the kingdom, and he is renting the "ownership" of the land he possess there. Tabian ban on Koh Tao is non existing!

I looked into it, quite a complex system to say the least, Por Bor Tor, Nor Sor Song, Nor Sor Saam and so on, all a bit much and I wont be spending too long learning about that as I don't need to and it looks like there is a lot to learn.

I guess the islanders on Koh Tao have something like common law rights to the land. So, in my opinion, it is theirs whether they can have full deeds or not, and the money they make from renting it they are entitled to in the exact same way as someone who had bought it. No reason why a family who has lived there for many generations should be entitled to less rights than a Chinese aristocratic family who bought some land back in the day.

If you live openly on a fenced piece of land in Thailand without obstruction it becomes yours after 15 years (Not Chanote, you need to apply for this). That time has come & gone on Ko Tau & the popular notion that Ko Tau is owned by the king as an old penal island is gone.

While Ko Tau was being settled these families fought violently for their stakes on the land. They are still fighting violently. Thailand is still a feudal tribal country.

Edit for sorry, very off topic but answering a post.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[Iumentum]

And ofcourse this poor man made his fortune by growing coconuts!!

After reading the the Op, am I the only one even more confused??

I don't know Koh Tao, but many rich island families in Thailand have made their money by selling off land. It is worth a fortune but not so long ago was just cheap farm land.

He made the money of the land that actually doesn't belong to him. The land on Koh Tao belong to the kingdom, and he is renting the "ownership" of the land he possess there. Tabian ban on Koh Tao is non existing!

I looked into it, quite a complex system to say the least, Por Bor Tor, Nor Sor Song, Nor Sor Saam and so on, all a bit much and I wont be spending too long learning about that as I don't need to and it looks like there is a lot to learn.

I guess the islanders on Koh Tao have something like common law rights to the land. So, in my opinion, it is theirs whether they can have full deeds or not, and the money they make from renting it they are entitled to in the exact same way as someone who had bought it. No reason why a family who has lived there for many generations should be entitled to less rights than a Chinese aristocratic family who bought some land back in the day.

Yes, they can be renting out the land or make business on it themselves, and earn money from that. But they cannot sell the land, because it's not theirs, they "rent" it from the kingdom. They can "sell" it in a fictive way, to someone who will trust them, but even though, the one who would "buy" would not own the land. Hence why they can rent it out.

[ScubaPhuket]

Yes, they can be renting out the land or make business on it themselves, and earn money from that. But they cannot sell the land, because it's not theirs, they "rent" it from the kingdom. They can "sell" it in a fictive way, to someone who will trust them, but even though, the one who would "buy" would not own the land. Hence why they can rent it out.

Edit: Stop talking about land titles in a murder investigation thread.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ScubaPhuket

[brian272727]

One thing I quickly learned in Thailand is that underneath all the iPhones, red plated cars and Louis Vuitton handbags is that the place is still living in the dark ages. Nothing relating to this investigation is surprising and that's what makes it all the more frustrating, I can't image what the victim's families are going through.

I took the decision a long time ago, despite having a fiance who is half-Thai, that I could never live there. Whilst it's great for a holiday and a short-break the place is as different culturally to the west as it can get. This whole face saving, respect mixed with corruption culture is unique and I will never begin to try and live with it, after 7 years I am only beginning to slightly understand it.

Let's not forget the victims in this whole episode, two individuals in the prime of their life on the holiday of lifetime. May they RIP.

[littlebw]

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/police-now-rule-koh-tao-headmans-son-murder-suspect-turn-foreign-tourists-probe/

"

Since the killings, police have focused on finding Asian men of 170 centimetres tall and with a 40 shoe size, based on surveillance camera footage and footprints on Sairee beach where the couple died.

A suspect caught by the surveillance camera of a resort wore pants and also had tattoo, according to the disclosure earlier by Montriwat Toovichien, the brother of the village headman, when he was questioned by the police as a suspect after he looked like the man on the tape. He was cleared when he had no tattoo.

Sources said police still have four groups of suspects: alien workers, male foreign tourists, those who might have had a fight with a victim at a bar and local community leaders.

lol

The police have been bought as normal, witnesses bought etc

forget about the real murderers getting punished for this

back to a foreigner - looks like its gonna be a set up for this Sean McAnne

Edited September 25, 2014 by littlebw

[bander]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I'm not sure I understand this right...
is he going to give the 1mb to the police if they found out he is not guilty... right...? :/

Yes, and that sounds like a bribe to me, but I bet he has delivered many brown envelopes already

[heyexile]

Honest and hard working RTP Region 8 (the region dealing with this tragic murder case) now very busy in Phuket in titanic deck-chair moving case.

"When constabulary duty`s to be done ....... a policeman`s lot is not a happy one."

[dealthedice]

...This case seems sadly turning cold. I assume justice won't be served. Hopefully, if so, these murders won't be forgotten, and those unable to solve this case, in addition to those responsible, will suffer some other way (economical, perhaps?). Maybe this will make tourists more wary in Thailand (even though it might not save ones life, anyway).

One thing bothers me about the investigation hugely. Hannah was seen arguing in the bar with assumedly "a local ganster" (or two?) in the night of her death. This even reached the news early on. After this, the lead seems to have vanished totally from the news. To me this sounds like perhaps the most vital lead we have out of the whole case and night. There's very high probability (in my opinion) that the one who Hannah argued in the bar prior to her and David's death is either one of the murderers, or someone very closely connected to the murders and murderer(s).

Why is it that there hasn't been any mention what so ever, that police would had discovered who the person/persons were, which Hannah was arguing with? There hasn't been any mention, that police would had interrogated, or even found this person/persons so far - as vital, as this lead seems to be with the case. This is goes beyond my understanding.

Someone must have seen and know who were the participants in the argument in the bar (which probably was rather full of people), yet that event of the night seems to be totally buried. This is the main lead that should be investigated!

I can't totally remember is Sean said that the two people in his photo were exactly those who Hannah argued with, or were just following the scene?

Anyway, what do you think?

[stiggy]

webfact, on 16 Sept 2014 - 08:55, said:

CRIME

Koh Tao 'sealed off' after two tourists brutally killed

THE NATION, AFP

Gruesome murders of British pair on island paradise shock locals and visitors

BANGKOK: -- POLICE have sealed off the resort island of Koh Tao off Surat Thani province to hunt down killers who brutally murdered a British couple and possibly raped the woman on Sunday night. The 24-year-old victims have been identified as Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....itish-tourists/

this person in the black t shirt looks the same person put on the facebook pages and another newspaper we cant quote . this is dated 16 sept 14

Is this villiage headman with the gloves on at the crime also ?

Hard to tell with the grainy imagery, look at the hairline though, the contour of it and shape.

Are you suggesting that is Worapan ? if so wrong, and typical of the incorrect detective work by armchair TV pundits.

The guy who you have singled out in the pictures wearing gloves is Dr Chasit, who has been on the island for years treating locals and tourists alike from his practice in Sairee village.

Said it before so Ill repeat it. regarding the picture

The guy in the white gloves is a local, Dr Chasit who runs a clinic on Sairee.

Edited September 25, 2014 by stiggy

[littlebw]

can anyone see a tattoo on the asian caught on the cctv?

[sz1a]

I think Sean the Scottsman is implicated in the murderer. He claimed he was chased and it was bull as the CCTV proved. The story sounded fishy to me to begin with. Just like the German beggar, Sean is full of it and now successfully fled the country. Why would he be covered in blood that same night?

[boomerangutang]

Fourth, sean mcanna looks like a druggie and his story sounds like drug-induced paranoia more than anything. Some people here have even considered him a suspicious character.

Next.

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone, backpacker or not, who is not a druggie - except perhaps me, as I don't do any drugs other than an aspirin once in awhile. But trying to throw smut at Sean McAnna is low class. It matters little what his past history has been. To be trying to besmirch him makes it sounds more like the besmircher is hiding something or somebody. If I were investigating this heinous crime, I would welcome such evidence as Sean is putting forth. And I respect his courage for doing so. Lesser men would run and hide. It doesn't surprise me that much of the pertinent info on this crime are coming from a farang. It accentuates how Thais (who know things) aren't stepping up and doing what's right. With 34 years familiarity with Thailand, it doesn't surprise me that Thais are not telling the truth and/or telling what they know or suspect - which could aid investigators.

I wish the lead cop would come up to me and say something like, "Ok, Mr. Wise Guy. You farang think you're so smart and can solve this crime - Ok, go ahead, you do it." ....and really mean it. I'd say, "Ok, put me in charge. I'd like someone like Ms Porntip on my team plus a few able assistants which she can pick." Then I'd arrest some prime suspects and get the ball rolling towards convictions.

[Rimbuman]

Mightier than the military?

[stiggy]

Over on the Ko Tao community facebook page it's as if nothing ever happened ....not wishing to make light of it but this song sums the situation perfectly. A total crying shame.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/616813668403897/

Or maybe the Koh Tao community page members ( mostly westerners who live there ) are showing respect for both the victims and there families.A lot more than can be said for some posting on this forum and others with with there speculative nonsense.

If you cared to scroll through the FB group you will see a vigil was held to show respect for the victims, their families, and to help the local community come to terms with what has happened on the otherwise peaceful island, they call home.

Meanwhile for those living there life continues during these sad times, they are not making light of the situation quite the opposite.

[mikiea]

the dna is not worth squat if it is not matched to the correct doner & all hard files and samples locked down. otherwise it is a carney shell "hide the pea game" . this whole mess has been a real wake up for me. i feel kinda foolish thinking the police were the good guys.

[ozzyrules]

ALL of us have a right to be treated as innocent until proven guilty. Mr. Warot and Mr. Woraphan also are as human as the dead Britishers and we should allow then to enjoy basic human rights.

I wish it was like that in Thailand too.

This is a homicide investigation. These two are suspects. DNA would prove one way or the other. What's so bl**dy difficult to accept?

The father is a suspect? Please elaborate on how he is a suspect.

As for the son at Uni, the police can interview classmates and review CCTV that places him in BKK at the time of the crime to clear him. If they cannot corroborate his alibi then a DNA test would be warranted.

Is that the same police who identified a lady on CCTV who was thai as a foreignor..

The same police who declared a thai could never have done this..

The same police who chased Sean into 7/11..

The same police who declared the supect had fled to bangkok then it turns out he has an alibi..Do you think it would make sense to DNA test him, just in case one of his friends or all of them might be lying..

The same police who allowed Mon on the crime scene to stand over and stare at the exposed bodies..

The same poilce who is apparemtly next to him in that crime scene..

Or is it the policeman that chased Sean into 7/11 with Mon the owner...

The same police who released the photos...

The same police that said they were unable to tell is she had been sexually assaulted yet the photos they released show that she was raped AFTER she was murdered...

Do you really think we can believe these police?

Can you please tell us a few things the police have said that are actually true in this case???

Toatal disgrace, you should be ashamed for trying to defend all this BS..

This guy offers a millin fricken baht if they are guilty...what an arrogant &lt;deleted&gt;..

If they are found guilty it will cost them a lot more in disgrace and loss of face and business....

In fact I think that has happened already....

[Chutney]

Now thats about as twisted of logic as you can get.

At first everybody here at TV is angry that the powerful members of society are above the law.

Then the police disprove you by investigating and publicly fingering a member of an influential family.

And now all you can say when your accusations have been proven wrong is that it was an elaborate police scheme of reverse psychology.

Pretty funny.

Why do all these farangs on TV think they should be the puppet masters of the Thai Police or the Thai General or of Thai Society?

Why do so many TV members think it perfectly reasonable to make demands that Thai Police test everyones DNA in a huge dragnet when they would complain like the dickens if it were ever attempted by the Police in their own Western European countries?

Yes, it is very twisted, and I would love to be wrong. The police have claimed on at least 2 occasions that arrests are imminent and that case will be solved. Yet here we are. I am a strong advocate of the police just shutting up and doing their job, but they don't. They blab non stop to the media and then cry fowl when their claims and accusations fall short.

How many times have we read in the papers that this group or another is going to be targeted, clamped down on, or raided? All this does is give notice to those involved time to clean up their act and hide the evidence. Then it's back to business as usual.

This case is different however. This time the international community is watching, and they expect results. We've also had the Scottish fellow posting photos online and making claims about local mafias. The police couldn't ignore it as they usually do, they have had to respond.

So with much fanfare they DNA test and interview this influential family, which for some reason they failed to do before, all equal under the law and all that, and then release them.

We are not pretty much back to square one with no arrests and one 'suspect' who is hiding/studying in Bangkok. The whole thing stinks.

So we have to ask, what do we know?

We know that influential figures in Thailand have in the past and still do literally get away with murder (and a litany of other crimes).

We know that the murdered couple were drinking at establishments owned/run by local influential figures.

We have seen photos of one of these influential figures supposedly harassing the female victim.

We have seen several photos of one of the figures on CTV running away from the crime scene, with police on the crime scene, and again online thanks to 'terrified' Scotsman.

We know that influential figures know and feel they are above the law, and it's safe to assume this lack of fear of repercussions will make them more likely to do things that your average person wouldn't.

So really, as improbable as my theorising might seem, it is not impossible.

If I was a real conspiracy theorist, I might put forward the notion that the reason the police are taking DNA from every migrant worker on the island, is so that if something like this happens again, they'll be able to conveniently smear it around at the scene of the crime. Of course maybe they're just doing it to make any would be migrant murderers think twice before swinging the hoe.

Really? Where? If there are any such photos I don't think it's made it out to the main media and it certainly should.

Please.......the photos have been in the main media for ages. You must be new to this case. Go back and look.

Now pull your foot out of your mouth and try looking at what was written and the relevant sentence marked in BOLD before you shove your oar in.

There have been NO photographs released anywhere which show anybody, thai or otherwise hassling Hannah on the night of the murder.

That all important possible reason for this nightmare has only so far been suggested and rumoured, but not confirmed.

There has been CTV footage of her and her friends that night, there has been a photograph taken in Choppers at the table with her friends and David Miller and his friend sitting together that night.

An actual picture of Hannah being quite clearly harassed by any of the suspects or another person or more would be dynamite and very strong supportive circumstantial evidence.

So many idiots on here jumping in and hijacking the thread and dishing out insults because they're too thick and lazy to follow the discourse......

[bigjules007]

Over on the Ko Tao community facebook page it's as if nothing ever happened ....not wishing to make light of it but this song sums the situation perfectly. A total crying shame.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/616813668403897/

Or maybe the Koh Tao community page members ( mostly westerners who live there ) are showing respect for both the victims and there families.A lot more than can be said for some posting on this forum and others with with there speculative nonsense.

If you cared to scroll through the FB group you will see a vigil was held to show respect for the victims, their families, and to help the local community come to terms with what has happened on the otherwise peaceful island, they call home.

Meanwhile for those living there life continues during these sad times, they are not making light of the situation quite the opposite.

8

Or maybe everyone is sh$t scared to say anything in fear of the possibilty of the same thing happening to them more like.

[boomerangutang]

Is Mon (guy with black t-shirt) a suspect? If so, he shouldn't be in the middle of the crime scene while it's being inspected. Isn't he also one of the two who would not submit a DNA sample? I hope the police know that, when getting a sample, they should get it right then and there - to make sure it's 100% from the person being tested.

I've never watched Colombo or CIS (but have watched similar). I'd venture the primary reason there are so many posts from Thai Visaites is many of us are sincerely concerned about this investigation. It was obviously a heinous crime and we want to see justice done. It's natural to be concerned and to put forth suggestions and theories. Thai cops say they're going to nail some suspects. Ok, let's hope they get it right, and not let the case/suspects slip away like last week's sandcastle.

[ozzyrules]

Is Mon (guy with black t-shirt) a suspect? If so, he shouldn't be in the middle of the crime scene while it's being inspected. Isn't he also one of the two who would not submit a DNA sample? I hope the police know that, when getting a sample, they should get it right then and there - to make sure it's 100% from the person being tested.

I've never watched Colombo or CIS (but have watched similar). I'd venture the primary reason there are so many posts from Thai Visaites is many of us are sincerely concerned about this investigation. It was obviously a heinous crime and we want to see justice done. It's natural to be concerned and to put forth suggestions and theories. Thai cops say they're going to nail some suspects. Ok, let's hope they get it right, and not let the case/suspects slip away like last week's sandcastle.

Yes Mon was allowed on the crimescene as he's standing next to his brother, the one in uniform with dark glasses on, the Koh Tao policeman...the one on duty in uniform, as opposed to the off duty one who he was ptotographed with by Sean...

Why would he need a DNA test, he was bound to have been with the police at the time of the murers and subsequent rapes..

[joedot]

Relax everybody. The village 'Big Man' was clearly misunderstood. What he meant to say was I will give the police 1 million baht to find my family not guilty.

Edited September 25, 2014 by joedot

[joecoolfrog]

In Thai law , can a suspect be obliged to give a DNA sample ?

[Chutney]

I think most of you are missing the point purely because you're not properly following the story, picking up bits & pieces in the posts that you choose to read & misunderstanding what's happening then confusing the thread for those who DO read with nonsense.

The Thai DNA tests taken from Miss Witheridge are unimportant because her body is being tested in the UK. Those results will be cross-matched with the thai results & if there is a discrepancy the thai authorities will be told that they are wrong. This result will be undisputed worldwide.

Most 'statements' from the thai media you should ignore because they are clueless & ungoverned. Everything else you should discount as either media misunderstandings, thai police tactics (such as they are) or perhaps chinese whispers which a lot of you are contributing to.

Tbqh... if you have nothing useful to add you should stop clouding the subject with your nonsense.

I would suggest that you allow time for the investigators, foreign & thai, to do their jobs. These things do take time.

Although I heartily agree with much of what you are saying here( particularly about some of the thread 'contributors') I thnk you may be wrong about the forensics from Hannah Witheridge. As far as any reports have said the bodies were released directly to their families for repatriation and burial not to the UK authorities for further tests. I'd really hope to be wrong about that though. Do you have any links to that information source?

[ScubaPhuket]

I think Sean the Scottsman is implicated in the murderer. He claimed he was chased and it was bull as the CCTV proved. The story sounded fishy to me to begin with. Just like the German beggar, Sean is full of it and now successfully fled the country. Why would he be covered in blood that same night?

You're entitled to your opinion but I question your reasons & your sanity.

[ScubaPhuket]

Is that the same police who identified a lady on CCTV who was thai as a foreignor..

The same police who declared a thai could never have done this..

The same police who chased Sean into 7/11..

The same police who declared the supect had fled to bangkok then it turns out he has an alibi..Do you think it would make sense to DNA test him, just in case one of his friends or all of them might be lying..

The same police who allowed Mon on the crime scene to stand over and stare at the exposed bodies..

The same poilce who is apparemtly next to him in that crime scene..

Or is it the policeman that chased Sean into 7/11 with Mon the owner...

The same police who released the photos...

The same police that said they were unable to tell is she had been sexually assaulted yet the photos they released show that she was raped AFTER she was murdered...

Do you really think we can believe these police?

Can you please tell us a few things the police have said that are actually true in this case???

Toatal disgrace, you should be ashamed for trying to defend all this BS..

This guy offers a millin fricken baht if they are guilty...what an arrogant <deleted>..

If they are found guilty it will cost them a lot more in disgrace and loss of face and business....

In fact I think that has happened already....

Spot on. The rest of you should be ashamed.

[ScubaPhuket]

In Thai law , can a suspect be obliged to give a DNA sample ?

Not before arrest no.

[ClutchClark]

Fourth, sean mcanna looks like a druggie and his story sounds like drug-induced paranoia more than anything. Some people here have even considered him a suspicious character.

Next.

You've never taken drugs? You must be the only one.

Sounds to me like you're the paranoid one, not Sean McAnna.

No, my generation was not fond of drugs, particularly in the rural west where I was raised and call home. Sean looks like a meth head and if you don't recognize his behavior and claims as strange crazy talk then I gave you far more credit than you deserve.

You'd have to elaborate on your accusation of me being paranoid before I can offer a counterpoint.

[ScubaPhuket]

Fourth, sean mcanna looks like a druggie and his story sounds like drug-induced paranoia more than anything. Some people here have even considered him a suspicious character.

Next.

You've never taken drugs? You must be the only one.

Sounds to me like you're the paranoid one, not Sean McAnna.

No, my generation was not fond of drugs, particularly in the rural west where I was raised and call home. Sean looks like a meth head and if you don't recognize his behavior and claims as strange crazy talk then I gave you far more credit than you deserve.

You'd have to elaborate on your accusation of me being paranoid before I can offer a counterpoint.

I don't intend to offer a 'counterpoint' because after reading your posts you're using this thread amongst others to satisfy your need for argument.

Not the right place sir.

[ClutchClark]

From my few personal experiences with Thai cops and investigations:

>>> I once went with cops to try and find some things which had been stolen from me. We got to a house of the g.f. of the thief. Cops didn't want to go in. The woman came out. I asked if I could look around inside her house. She looked at the cops and reluctantly said, 'ok.' I found some of my stolen items in her house. If I hadn't taken the initiate to go in the house, nothing would have been found.

>>> another time, similar scenario. I was with cops and we cornered a suspect. I asked to see his wallet. It had a falang woman's ID in it and another farang's ATM card. Again, those things wouldn't have been found if the process had been left up to the Thai cops who were right there.

there are other cases I could cite.

Three things Thai cops are good at: getting money (if there is money recovered by cops from thieves, it's certain a portion will wind up in the cops' pockets). The other factor is hitting. Thai cops are good at hitting a suspect who they have just taken in to custody. Resistance is futile.

Some other things Thai cops are good at:

>>>> not thinking outside the box. They'll talk talk talk to suspects, but won't ask tough probing questions. Reason? You never want anyone to lose face. They're good at avoiding embarrassing situations. Every Thai knows in their bone marrow what's correct and what's mai supap (not proper). So, when cops interview a big shot like Chaleum (where is your son?) or the Pu Yai Ban (village headman) they are incapable of asking tough (really probing) questions or VIPs. Because Thailand's social classes are so extremely stratified, the insignificants can get hit and the Big Shots are untouchable.

>>>> Not picking up on possible clues and evidence.

That's half the reason Thai cops didn't want the FBI or Scotland Yard involved in this case. Thai cops don't want any VIP's losing face.

If the murderers are Thai then Thai cops are going to be the best at gaining the information for their capture. Thai police have an entire network of informants.

Scotland Yard? Why would a Thai tell Scotland Yard anything?